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Nvidia Fermi

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a b U Graphics card
January 6, 2010 4:32:23 PM

Hi guys, hope you all had a great new year. I was just wondering if anyone could clarify what is going on with Nvidia and their new line of cards in development. Does anyone have release dates, specific details of cards etc? I've googled all over the place but all the latest news items seem to be like last year which will be pretty out of date! Hopefully you guys will know the answer. Thanks.

More about : nvidia fermi

a c 144 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
January 6, 2010 4:35:32 PM

check nvidia at CES2010. they claim that they will show something about Fermi based GeForce in the event
January 6, 2010 5:17:47 PM

There is nothing but rumor up to this point. Rumors and a few white papers floating around, some marketing bantering but nothing to really draw a conclusion from. CES could help paint a clearer picture providing they bring a working card to demo for folks.
Related resources
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
January 6, 2010 5:45:16 PM

If you want positive rumours that seem less accurate PR-stuff then read Fuad's article in Fudzilla's graphics section, if you want negative rumours that seem more accurate then read the slightly ironically named: Semi-Accurate website for Charlie's thoughts.

But right now, nothing more solid than, they aren't here right now, but are expected to arrive sometime this year.
a b U Graphics card
January 6, 2010 11:23:43 PM

Ahh ok, i read on brightsideofnews.com that they will be out for march this year. According to Mark Haras, some exec in Nvidia, the new cards will be more super-computing based rather than a graphics card, but even so its slated to be more powerful to ATI's best offering in the DX 11 API. Thats all i know, thanks for all your help!
January 6, 2010 11:47:37 PM

Griffolion said:
Ahh ok, i read on brightsideofnews.com that they will be out for march this year. According to Mark Haras, some exec in Nvidia, the new cards will be more super-computing based rather than a graphics card, but even so its slated to be more powerful to ATI's best offering in the DX 11 API. Thats all i know, thanks for all your help!


Too bad by then ATI will have had nearly half a year of extra development, seeing how the average cycle for next gen cards is around a year to a year and a half Nvidia is going to be playing catchup on the next gen 6xxx cards which are supposed to be a raddical new redesign. I'm not denying Fermi is going to be a beast but just saying Nvidia may see some bigger problems next gen.
January 7, 2010 12:54:46 AM

They can take all the time they want providing they are not spending all this time rebranding the G92 yet again...
January 7, 2010 12:59:44 AM

^Why have they been so obsessed with that architechture I mean you can only spead so far
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
January 7, 2010 1:02:14 AM

Griffolion said:
According to Mark Haras, some exec in Nvidia, ...


Yeah which is kinda worthless, and is like the ATi guys saying R600 will clobber the G80. [:thegreatgrapeape:5]

Here's probably the best description of what to expect you will get, it's by Rys from B3D who is highly respected and equally unbiased as he is knowledgeable;

http://techreport.com/articles.x/17815

This isn't about timelines, I don't think Rys can have, even now let alone in November, any true certainty of a fixed due date, but it is a good look into what makes sense looking at both compute and gaming, from what little is publicly available and 'reveal-able' (ie NDA).
January 7, 2010 1:06:26 AM

i think they are obsessed with it because it was good (at least that generation) and figured out how to crank them out like printing money. familiar, mature process and as long as nobody notices or folks in the know don't let it out of the bag they can afford to be lazy. the 4xx and 5xx series were both unexpected i believe so now they actually have to innovate again. rebranding does occur in every camp but they took it to the extreme with the G92. i am glad they get called out on it.
January 7, 2010 2:06:14 PM

So far at CES all they've done is show some pretty video footage with it, no solid numbers yet.

However, there has been a rumour floating around at CES that the Fermi line could be roughly 36% faster than the 58xx line from AMD/ATI.

Until that is substantiated, take it with a grain of salt, but if it's true.............. thank God I didn't waste my money on a 5870.

Oh, and the new GeForce cards will also support 3 monitor 3D display like Eyefinty... but with 3D. I suppose that's nVidia's attempt to one-up AMD with their 6 monitors..... personally I'd prefer 3 monitors with 3D to 6 monitors running at 5fps anyways.
January 7, 2010 2:31:41 PM

Quote:
Lol at that video, suddenly tesselation is a big thing is it.

Has someone forgot to tell him tesselation is old news and we have seen it already with ATi?


*shrug* the Fermi will supposedly do almost everything the 5800 series can do, cept instead of 6 monitors it's 3 monitors and 3D.

And the Fermi will likely be faster, so it is still kind of important how well it compares with the 58xx's on a point by point basis. Meaning, if it can tesselate better, yes it is still a big thing :p 

How much faster is a matter of speculation still, there's a rumour at CES that Fermi will be roughly 36% faster than the 58xx series cards, which, in my opinion, would be entirely worth waiting a few extra months for, because that means I could actually do multi-monitors while having a slightly-less-sh1tty fps on decent graphics settings.

nVidia better release some dang numbers at CES though, or I'm going to be very upset with them.......
a b U Graphics card
January 7, 2010 2:35:34 PM

On a scale of 1 to 10, nVidia is .... wait for it....wood-screwed.
January 7, 2010 2:58:03 PM

The first fermi GPU cards are supposed to be out by the end of March. Until people actually get their hands on a finished product, there's no point is stating what they're capable of. nVidia fans say they'll be faster than ATI. ATI fans say the nVidia fans are liars.

Asking about them now is like asking who you think will win the next presidential election in 2012.
a b U Graphics card
January 7, 2010 3:04:54 PM

KidHorn said:
The first fermi GPU cards are supposed to be out by the end of March. Until people actually get their hands on a finished product, there's no point is stating what they're capable of. nVidia fans say they'll be faster than ATI. ATI fans say the nVidia fans are liars.

Asking about them now is like asking who you think will win the next presidential election in 2012.


In 2012 by the looks of it the new president will be Paris Hilton :D 
a b U Graphics card
January 7, 2010 3:55:39 PM

Problem is, the only rumors leaking out is straight from nVidia supposedly, and if thats true, then fudging numbers, wed have to rely that nVidia isnt doing that 3 mobths before release to prevent people from buying from the competition.
It could be nothing more than the best foot forwards, where it also loses elsewheres in other games also. But, of course, nVidia or any company wouldnt mention this
January 7, 2010 5:44:20 PM

Quote:
According to pics and intel, the Fermi uses 6-pin + 8-pin power connectors, meaning the Nvidia card pulls down the same wattage as the 5970. So apples to apples would be comparing the fermi to 59XX, not 58XX.

Given that the 5970 is roughly 40% faster than the 5870 (stock), I'm not sure where any surprises lie.

The Fermi chip is 40% larger than ATI's 5870 chip, so again, not surprising.

...

Not exactly sure why you think anyone wasted $400 on a 5870 they bought 3 months ago, will still be on top for another 3 months til Fermi comes out, will still cost less than the Fermi card at release (i guarantee it), and by all accounts to date has the same fps per watt performance as what Fermi is rumored at.

Sounds like Nvidia truely is 6 months behind what ATI already offers. Fermi = 5970, with nothing extra.



I'm saying it was a waste of money cause there's nothing that requires the power of a 5870 or DX11 yet (Battleforge and DiRt2 do not require it, they blow and aren't that graphically heavy, don't even count those, I'm talking BF3 and AvP3, etc.). So there was really no point in buying it. If you wait til the Fermi comes out (assuming March at the latest) a couple of games will have just come out and more will be coming that can take advantage of DX11, etc. So even if the Fermi is exactly the same performance per wattage as the 5970, it is MORE performance regardless. The 5970 will be at that point underpowered, and to get the same performance, you will have to buy a new Fermi card (or even a new ATI card when they come out at that point to match the Fermi) after you ALREADY paid for a 5970..... hence the waste of money.

It's the number 1 rule of tech stuff like this, don't buy it until you need it. And I guaruntee no one needs a 5970 for anything right now, except benching, which you can google :p 

If you buy every generation of tech that comes out and/or are an avid bencher, then the 5970 isn't really a waste for you. But for "gamers" and most other people that generally only run their monitors at 60Hz anyways, a 5970 is essentially pointless right now.

And even if you HATE nvidia and don't care about the Fermi, a 5970 is STILL a waste of money now, because you can wait til the Fermi comes out and then buy a 5970 for 2/3 or even 1/2 the price they are on for right now, and again you'll actually have a use for it at that point.

Lastly, IF a single-GPU Fermi can almost match a dual-GPU 5970.... regardless of how much power it uses, it is doing more work in less real-estate and is superior because of it. It's not like you'll need a 1500W power supply to even SLI two (or even three) of the Fermi's, a 1050 or less will still do just fine, and most hardcore hardware enthusiasts have one or two of those lying around. I hardly doubt you would notice any difference on your energy bill unless you play Crysis at max settings and 32xAA 24/7.
a b U Graphics card
January 7, 2010 5:57:15 PM

Eyefinity, 25x16 are 2 reasons for a 5970, and while were all waiting for Fermi, which wont be cheap, you can have all this, and 5 months later have a Fermi.
5 monthst usage pays for itself, even if you dont use all the extras, and wont have to wait and see when the new games come out. AvP is a ATI game, as are almost all games to come out this year, so should do well on ATI solutuions.
As for hopefull price drops, dont automatically assume theyll be large, as this give ATI reasong to keep their intro pricing, which is way lower than nVidias been doing lately for their intro cards, and this one, Fermi, wont be far from that meaning, itll be performance priced, which leaves ATI room to go a lil lower and still be competitive, with no huge price drops. so dont expect them, and it isnt a good reason to wait either
a c 216 U Graphics card
a c 80 Î Nvidia
January 7, 2010 6:08:22 PM

RealityRush said:
I'm saying it was a waste of money cause there's nothing that requires the power of a 5870 or DX11 yet (Battleforge and DiRt2 do not require it, they blow and aren't that graphically heavy, don't even count those, I'm talking BF3 and AvP3, etc.). So there was really no point in buying it. If you wait til the Fermi comes out (assuming March at the latest) a couple of games will have just come out and more will be coming that can take advantage of DX11, etc. So even if the Fermi is exactly the same performance per wattage as the 5970, it is MORE performance regardless. The 5970 will be at that point underpowered, and to get the same performance, you will have to buy a new Fermi card (or even a new ATI card when they come out at that point to match the Fermi) after you ALREADY paid for a 5970..... hence the waste of money.


I have an i7 920 and a 5870 at 1920x1200, and I would love more power than I have. I don't max out most games with a 5870. I can come close in many cases, but to get 50+ fps requires me to only use x4 MSAA in most games and to play Crysis over 40 FPS most the time requires me to use high settings as opposed to Very high with x4 AA.

Playing Risen with MSAA leaves tons of jagged edges on textures and foilage. It feels like the screen is flickering. In order to clean it up, I need to run x4 AA with Super Sampling, which just happens to drop FPS to a point that causes motion sickness. I do the same with Dragon Age.

I guess what I'm saying is that a 5970 does allow you to raise your settings higher and does provide a better experience than even a 5870, which contrary to your believe, is not a waste and still isn't enough power to max settings on most games. Granted, it can max many other games too, it just happens the games I play, it's not enough to max settings now, or I noticed poor frames that give me motion sickness.
a b U Graphics card
January 7, 2010 6:08:28 PM

RealityRush said:
I'm saying it was a waste of money cause there's nothing that requires the power of a 5870 or DX11 yet (Battleforge and DiRt2 do not require it, they blow and aren't that graphically heavy, don't even count those, I'm talking BF3 and AvP3, etc.). So there was really no point in buying it. If you wait til the Fermi comes out (assuming March at the latest) a couple of games will have just come out and more will be coming that can take advantage of DX11, etc. So even if the Fermi is exactly the same performance per wattage as the 5970, it is MORE performance regardless. The 5970 will be at that point underpowered, and to get the same performance, you will have to buy a new Fermi card (or even a new ATI card when they come out at that point to match the Fermi) after you ALREADY paid for a 5970..... hence the waste of money.

It's the number 1 rule of tech stuff like this, don't buy it until you need it. And I guaruntee no one needs a 5970 for anything right now, except benching, which you can google :p 

If you buy every generation of tech that comes out and/or are an avid bencher, then the 5970 isn't really a waste for you. But for "gamers" and most other people that generally only run their monitors at 60Hz anyways, a 5970 is essentially pointless right now.

And even if you HATE nvidia and don't care about the Fermi, a 5970 is STILL a waste of money now, because you can wait til the Fermi comes out and then buy a 5970 for 2/3 or even 1/2 the price they are on for right now, and again you'll actually have a use for it at that point.

Lastly, IF a single-GPU Fermi can almost match a dual-GPU 5970.... regardless of how much power it uses, it is doing more work in less real-estate and is superior because of it. It's not like you'll need a 1500W power supply to even SLI two (or even three) of the Fermi's, a 1050 or less will still do just fine, and most hardcore hardware enthusiasts have one or two of those lying around. I hardly doubt you would notice any difference on your energy bill unless you play Crysis at max settings and 32xAA 24/7.


I find it rather cute that someone with reality in his screen tag thinks that the AA settings in crysis have a noticeable impact on load power consumption.

You realize that some people like dirt2 and stalker and want dx11 now? You realize that a rather large proportion of those folks interested in a high end card like a 5970 at all care about benchmarking a GREAT deal? The money wise gamer will probably be gaming happily on their 1680*1050 display with a 4870/gtx260 for some time to come. That doesn't mean those that want fermi/5970s to game at 30" and beyond resolution are wrong...

You will have to give the subjective nonsense a break. What is true for you is not true for another, you can't state it as such. Pure tripe, the lot of it. You could replace every tech you mention with any that has ever been released. Early buyers pay more, get over it and don't worry.. you don't have to be one of them. Don't be bitter someone has cash to blow on something you don't.. or that they value different aspects of their rigs.
January 7, 2010 6:11:07 PM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
Eyefinity, 25x16 are 2 reasons for a 5970, and while were all waiting for Fermi, which wont be cheap, you can have all this, and 5 months later have a Fermi.
5 monthst usage pays for itself, even if you dont use all the extras, and wont have to wait and see when the new games come out. AvP is a ATI game, as are almost all games to come out this year, so should do well on ATI solutuions.
As for hopefull price drops, dont automatically assume theyll be large, as this give ATI reasong to keep their intro pricing, which is way lower than nVidias been doing lately for their intro cards, and this one, Fermi, wont be far from that meaning, itll be performance priced, which leaves ATI room to go a lil lower and still be competitive, with no huge price drops. so dont expect them, and it isnt a good reason to wait either


Meh, nvidia's will have eyefinity with 3D, so that doesn't seem like a great selling point to me.

And the 5970 doesn't even have enough supply right now, so for the majority of people, it'll be 2-3 months usage tops, and 1-2 months usage on games that don't really take advantage of the card plus one month on a game that does is not even close to enough to make up for paying $1000+ when you could've just waited and spent $600 or so for a BETTER card and use it on games that matter from the moment it comes out of the box.

The price drops I was overestimating for sure, but I'm just saying it would still be cheaper, even if it's $50 cheaper, that extra 2 months playing those games that could've just as easily been played on a 4800 or a 200 series you already have (or even previous lines, 8800GTX :p )don't pay you back the $50 you just got jibbed out of. You don't get that money back. Why waste it????
a c 216 U Graphics card
a c 80 Î Nvidia
January 7, 2010 6:14:38 PM

Do you honestly believe a 5970 will only be useful for a total of 4-6 months? In order to believe that, you have to believe just about every other thing you sad was complete garbage, as everything less is useless now in comparison.

You think a 5970 costs $1000+?
January 7, 2010 6:15:49 PM

daedalus685 said:
I find it rather cute that someone with reality in his screen tag thinks that the AA settings in crysis have a noticeable impact on load power consumption.

You realize that some people like dirt2 and stalker and want dx11 now? You realize that a rather large proportion of those folks interested in a high end card like a 5970 at all care about benchmarking a GREAT deal? The money wise gamer will probably be gaming happily on their 1680*1050 display with a 4870/gtx260 for some time to come. That doesn't mean those that want fermi/5970s to game at 30" and beyond resolution are wrong...

You will have to give the subjective nonsense a break. What is true for you is not true for another, you can't state it as such. Pure tripe, the lot of it. You could replace every tech you mention with any that has ever been released. Early buyers pay more, get over it and don't worry.. you don't have to be one of them. Don't be bitter someone has cash to blow on something you don't.. or that they value different aspects of their rigs.


You're honestly going to tell me that paying an extra hundreds of dollars was worth getting a lower performance card months sooner just so you can play Dirt2? AHAHAHAAHAHH. Sure man, sure. I'm sure the majority of the gaming population is with you.

http://pc.ign.com/objects/143/14300762.html

Oh what's that?? It got one review..... and it was 3/10.
a b U Graphics card
January 7, 2010 6:24:07 PM

Read the above posts for reasons, and yes, you can assume therell be plenty of Fermis to go round once it does come, especially since ATI is 6 months ahead, and is just now catching up due to TSMCs slow capacity.
IF nVidia is ramping parts, and IF its priced decently, youre still losing out on months of gaming nnow.
Weve all been here seeing people to wait for 3 months now, and nowwe know an ambiguous date, youre saying to wait 2 more months.
Im saiyng, this waiting has caused enough delay, and alot of people are saying the same with their wallets, as 2 months waiting is 2 more lost.
Having an uber setup now or wait? Guess how that usually plays?
January 7, 2010 6:26:36 PM

bystander said:
Do you honestly believe a 5970 will only be useful for a total of 4-6 months? In order to believe that, you have to believe just about every other thing you sad was complete garbage, as everything less is useless now in comparison.

You think a 5970 costs $1000+?


That's not what I'm saying at all, way to read my post....

I'm saying why buy a card like a 5870 sooner when you don't need it, when you can wait a couple months and get a BETTER card for roughly the same price per performance point.

It's a waste because you don't need it at all to run most current games maxed, and can get it cheaper months from now when you will ACTUALLY start needing it, or buy a GF100 card with more performance for maybe a little more than what you paid now for a 5870.

A 5970 will be useful for more than 6 months absolutely, but a Fermi will be MORE useful for longer for about the same amount of money.
a c 216 U Graphics card
a c 80 Î Nvidia
January 7, 2010 6:28:11 PM

RealityRush said:
You're honestly going to tell me that paying an extra hundreds of dollars was worth getting a lower performance card months sooner just so you can play Dirt2? AHAHAHAAHAHH. Sure man, sure. I'm sure the majority of the gaming population is with you.

http://pc.ign.com/objects/143/14300762.html

Oh what's that?? It got one review..... and it was 3/10.



Oh what's that?? It got 997 reviews..... and it was 8.8 for players and 9.0 for six critics.
a b U Graphics card
January 7, 2010 6:28:15 PM

So, why waste your money on a Fermi, when certainly ATIs revision card is just around the corner. Why buy Fermi then?
All this promoting of nVidia and hiding it under waiting is better is pure crap. Like I said, people are tired of waiting, and if they do, why not go for the revised ATI card, or do you agree with me on this?
January 7, 2010 6:29:26 PM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
Read the above posts for reasons, and yes, you can assume therell be plenty of Fermis to go round once it does come, especially since ATI is 6 months ahead, and is just now catching up due to TSMCs slow capacity.
IF nVidia is ramping parts, and IF its priced decently, youre still losing out on months of gaming nnow.
Weve all been here seeing people to wait for 3 months now, and nowwe know an ambiguous date, youre saying to wait 2 more months.
Im saiyng, this waiting has caused enough delay, and alot of people are saying the same with their wallets, as 2 months waiting is 2 more lost.
Having an uber setup now or wait? Guess how that usually plays?


Buying an uber setup just so you can say you have one, not because you need it to do anything = waste of money

Benching with it is almost pointless anyways because you don't have comparable cards to compete with as they aren't even out yet :p 

The only reason to currently own a 58xx or 5970 is to try to make yourself feel like you have a bigger penis..... might as well have spent the cash to have literally done that, would've been more worth it I feel.
a c 216 U Graphics card
a c 80 Î Nvidia
January 7, 2010 6:30:39 PM

RealityRush said:
That's not what I'm saying at all, way to read my post....

I'm saying why buy a card like a 5870 sooner when you don't need it, when you can wait a couple months and get a BETTER card for roughly the same price per performance point.

It's a waste because you don't need it at all to run most current games maxed, and can get it cheaper months from now when you will ACTUALLY start needing it, or buy a GF100 card with more performance for maybe a little more than what you paid now for a 5870.

A 5970 will be useful for more than 6 months absolutely, but a Fermi will be MORE useful for longer for about the same amount of money.


I read your rediculous post.

In 6 months when I can get a Fermi that is more powerful (let's pretend it's the case, as we don't know anything yet), are you going to say the same about buying the Fermi for a high cost when in 6 months there will be a new ATI card that will be the same price and blow it out of the water?
a b U Graphics card
January 7, 2010 6:32:22 PM

RealityRush said:
Buying an uber setup just so you can say you have one, not because you need it to do anything = waste of money

Benching with it is almost pointless anyways because you don't have comparable cards to compete with as they aren't even out yet :p 

The only reason to currently own a 58xx or 5970 is to try to make yourself feel like you have a bigger penis..... might as well have spent the cash to have literally done that, would've been more worth it I feel.

I take it youve never had an uber setup, yet you claim to know why people buy them?
Then why get fermi? So you can not just have the best gpu, but can then prove your epeen is bigger by comparing.
Get off the green kool aid
a c 216 U Graphics card
a c 80 Î Nvidia
January 7, 2010 6:34:11 PM

RealityRush said:
Buying an uber setup just so you can say you have one, not because you need it to do anything = waste of money

Benching with it is almost pointless anyways because you don't have comparable cards to compete with as they aren't even out yet :p 

The only reason to currently own a 58xx or 5970 is to try to make yourself feel like you have a bigger penis..... might as well have spent the cash to have literally done that, would've been more worth it I feel.


You obviously didn't read my earlier post. One huge thing you have wrong, a 5870 still doesn't max out many games (most games I play), and a 5970 can unless you do eyefinity or have a 30" monitor.

You seem to assume that lower end cards are maxing these games, which they clearly don't.
a b U Graphics card
January 7, 2010 6:37:33 PM

Remember, some people prefer high AA modes, which, if you check, kills old nVidia cards, especially at higher res, where we see the 5870 owning the 295, where the 295 is unplayable.
January 7, 2010 6:44:08 PM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
So, why waste your money on a Fermi, when certainly ATIs revision card is just around the corner. Why buy Fermi then?
All this promoting of nVidia and hiding it under waiting is better is pure crap. Like I said, people are tired of waiting, and if they do, why not go for the revised ATI card, or do you agree with me on this?


I'm not saying buy a Fermi necessarily, I'm saying buy whichever one is better bang for your buck when you need to buy it.

People buying 5870s and 5970s right now are just doing it for epeen. Heck, wait another 8 months, then buy from whichever company is better.

People buying ANY card right now are dumb, that is my point, I was just focusing on the Fermi cause I know for a fact it's coming out soon, I don't know about the ATI revision, but if it does, I'll buy the ATI revision if it's better.
a b U Graphics card
January 7, 2010 6:55:42 PM

RealityRush said:
You're honestly going to tell me that paying an extra hundreds of dollars was worth getting a lower performance card months sooner just so you can play Dirt2? AHAHAHAAHAHH. Sure man, sure. I'm sure the majority of the gaming population is with you.

http://pc.ign.com/objects/143/14300762.html

Oh what's that?? It got one review..... and it was 3/10.


THere is not enough palm for my face...


I didn't say I like Dirt 2, I hate driving games but I don't pretend to speak for those I know do... unless you are claiming to be omnipotent you can't speak for them either.

It is a waste for YOU, yippy friggen do, then don't buy them, period.. But don't come back here in march claiming how awesome your $600 GTX380 is either, cause another ATI troll akin to yourself will be well within his right to lambaste you for months...

Besides that, there are other DX 11 games, and will be more later.. Even still, the card has still been the fastest single core card for months, in DX10 and 9...

Also, I take it you have never heard of over clocking competitions? I assure you there is a good proportion of the enthusiast crowd that buys 5970's and won't ever play more than solitaire on them before them OC them on LN2 and burn them out in a couple days.. Certainly not the majority.. but it is woefully ridiculous to claim hobbies like that are wastes of money compared to your pure and perfect gaming...

Get a better job so you can afford a 5970 and stop complaining... It is sad.

The people that buy these things are not "dumb" they just value different things...

I am curious what you think someone building a PC now is supposed to do though... Sure i can get along with the idea upgrading from a 4890 setup to a 5870 might be stretching the use of cash... but are you implying someone should but a 4890 with a new build so they can buy the best card again in 4 months so as to 'save' (lol) money?

But no, I understand. You already have a decent PC, or at least the best you can afford, therefor everyone must because it is too complicated to comprehend that more than one possibility exists.

Or did you really mean to say: "I can't afford a good graphics card and a couple 30" displays so noone should be able to enjoy it." Good luck driving a modern game at max settings on a 30" (or more) with anything but more than one 5870...
a b U Graphics card
January 7, 2010 7:02:03 PM

As you said
"Benching with it is almost pointless anyways because you don't have comparable cards to compete with as they aren't even out yet "

Now, that spanls of epeen thought right there. People buy thse cards cause they want the best, and not have to wait, and dont give a flying flip about waiting for another epeen to show up to compare to, like youre saying.
They may buy a fermi down the road, if its that impressive for their needs, which you have inaccurately described. And when the ATI refresh comes along, they may choose that as well, since itll be here on the heels of fermi anyways.
So, I ask again, why is it so important to wait for Fermi? or, would you also then be wiser to wait for ATIs refresh? and then purchase that?
a b U Graphics card
January 7, 2010 7:12:24 PM

Oh but the gtx380 might be faster in a few months, I better wait..... Oh but the hd6870 might be faster in a few months, I better wait..... Oh but the gtx480 might be faster in a few moths, I better wait..... Oh but the 7870 might be faster in a few months, I better wait.....

Do we understand why waiting for better is silly when it comes to tech? Some will buy every high end card that comes out, some won't. Some will buy whatever is best when they need something, some won't. Even some will choose to upgrade but wait a month if something better is coming, and some won't. Why are any of those less relevant situations than any other?
January 7, 2010 7:40:18 PM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
As you said
"Benching with it is almost pointless anyways because you don't have comparable cards to compete with as they aren't even out yet "

Now, that spanls of epeen thought right there. People buy thse cards cause they want the best, and not have to wait, and dont give a flying flip about waiting for another epeen to show up to compare to, like youre saying.
They may buy a fermi down the road, if its that impressive for their needs, which you have inaccurately described. And when the ATI refresh comes along, they may choose that as well, since itll be here on the heels of fermi anyways.
So, I ask again, why is it so important to wait for Fermi? or, would you also then be wiser to wait for ATIs refresh? and then purchase that?


I would purchase the ATI refresh if it was better performance/price at the time.

I'll try to explain this quantitatively so it makes more sense and people can understand where I'm coming from. And I wont do it with my taste/opinions, I'll go to the extreme just to prove a point.

Let's say for the sake of argument you are a person that absolutely MUST play EVERY SINGLE GAME you purchase at absolute maximum graphical settings with at least 2x AA (at current maximum resolutions 90% of the time 2x is almost overkill). For you, every single dollar spent on a game that can't be played at their best looking settings is a wasted dollar.

So after buying roughly $550 (or whatever the price is of a 5870, I wont use a 5970 cause that would make this too easy....) of games that you can't set to the best possible looking settings, it would be a waste NOT to buy at 5870 as you just "wasted" that much cash on games.

Now, here is the meat of it, can any of you in this post, name at LEAST $550 worth of games that cannot be set to the BEST LOOKING POSSIBLE settings with lets say, your previous 295 you own because you're such a graphical enthusiast (or if you want to be extreme, a 240GT or something). Assuming you have top of the line components other than the graphics cards in any of these setups so that the graphics card is the only bottleneck (if you don't, a 5870 or 5970 starts becoming more of a waste because of bottlenecking, so don't even go there).

If you can't name that many games that require a 5870, or 5970 to max settings, WHY DO YOU NEED THAT CARD?

Certain people find pleasure in playing Crysis or S.T.A.L.K.E.R. at max settings and will pay that much for it, that's all fine and dandy, but a lot of people will buy a card like that assuming it will make other games look better that don't need a card of that magnitude to look their best. And I would assume the majority (greater than 50%... not 99% like I'm sure some of you will wrongfully assume I mean) of the population is the latter, and would be woefully wasting money on something they do not need yet.

That is the best way I can explain it, and beyond that I give up trying.
a c 216 U Graphics card
a c 80 Î Nvidia
January 7, 2010 7:43:03 PM

Where do you get these dollar amounts? My 5870 cost $389. Today most are paying $410.

An older 285 gt cost about the same and doesn't perform as well.
January 7, 2010 7:43:46 PM



Why does the demo jump at 55 seconds in?


If its running live surely it won't jump...






I smell a playback loop... and playback loops are not always realtime rendering.
January 7, 2010 7:49:08 PM

bystander said:
Where do you get these dollar amounts? My 5870 cost $389. Today most are paying $410.

An older 285 gt cost about the same and doesn't perform as well.


I googled 5870 and got $550, but alright, even $410, name $410 worth of games that can't be played at max settings with the nvidia 200 series cards, even the worse 4800 cards....... go for it, humour me.
January 7, 2010 7:51:21 PM

RealityRush said:
<SNIP>


I was going to construct an answer to most of the points raised in your ludicrously stupid posts...


But then I thought... no, its not fair to enter into a battle of wits with what is clearly an unarmed man.



So I will leave you to remain satisfied in your own delusions.
a b U Graphics card
January 7, 2010 7:54:02 PM

I already said, turn on AA at high res, and the 295 folds like the leader a F@H in points.
1 reason.
Yous simply want the best, like buying a new car, as soon as you drive it off the lot, youve lost 3000$, but its the newest
2 reasons.
You dont even own 550$ worth of games, and could care mless, but you have to have the best for the ones you do own.
3 reasons

I could go on and on, and extreme doesnt mean 2xAA by any margin.
Understand, your POV is fine for you, but not acceptable for others
a b U Graphics card
January 7, 2010 7:57:01 PM

I'm sot sure how comparing the cost of games is at all relevant to the price of a GPU. Shouldn't the only relevant thing be how long one enjoys playing games in general for, and how much they enjoy that. It is ridiculous to try and objectively describe something that is by definition subjective from person to person.

You are still relying on your opinion. You don't seem to understand just how irrelevant and incomparable the enthusiast market is to the rest of the gamers. The people that buy 5970s, or whatever fermi high end will be called are a totally different beast than the average gamer. They buy tech for the tech, not for the gaming, the gaming is just a nice bonus. They also may have much higher standards, as gaming at high settings on the biggest displays is not easy, even for a 5970.
a c 216 U Graphics card
a c 80 Î Nvidia
January 7, 2010 8:08:48 PM

RealityRush said:
I googled 5870 and got $550, but alright, even $410, name $410 worth of games that can't be played at max settings with the nvidia 200 series cards, even the worse 4800 cards....... go for it, humour me.


I have no idea how you need to have X amount of games worth so much money to be worth a 5870 video card. I will list a few games I play which it will not max out. It also cost $389.

Crysis
Risen
Dragon Age Origons
Sacred 2
Neverwinter nights 2

There are many other games I do not own which would fall in this catagory, as well as many games I will be purchasing in the future.

Just so you know, I only play 1 other game atm, and that game is COD:mw2. That is the only game I play which this card can max.

I upgraded from a nearly 2 year old 9800GT. I don't plan to upgrade for a while.
January 7, 2010 8:40:35 PM

daedalus685 said:
I'm sot sure how comparing the cost of games is at all relevant to the price of a GPU. Shouldn't the only relevant thing be how long one enjoys playing games in general for, and how much they enjoy that. It is ridiculous to try and objectively describe something that is by definition subjective from person to person.

You are still relying on your opinion. You don't seem to understand just how irrelevant and incomparable the enthusiast market is to the rest of the gamers. The people that buy 5970s, or whatever fermi high end will be called are a totally different beast than the average gamer. They buy tech for the tech, not for the gaming, the gaming is just a nice bonus. They also may have much higher standards, as gaming at high settings on the biggest displays is not easy, even for a 5970.


I am an enthusiast, I can list my specs if you don't believe me lol. The only thing in my computer right now that isn't "enthusiast" classed is my graphics card, because I'm waiting for games to come out worth upgrading to.

As it stands, I can use my crappy 240GT I bought for $50 (2 months ago when I built this computer from scratch for $2500+) until it's worth upgrading to a Fermi or ATI revision as there are enough games out for the cost/benefit ratio to work out.

Obviously I don't understand where some of you are coming from, and you don't understand me.... so I'll just stop arguing now as it has turned into people throwing petty 2nd grade insults at me instead of trying to discuss the subject. I know I said "dumb" at one point btw, but that was because I was angered from everyone else flaming me except for a couple people without trying to explain their point to me. I apologize for overreacting, but I am ending the argument now on my end before it gets any more out of hand than people have already gone.

Please continue with the original topic of this thread before I caused it to be derailed :) 
a b U Graphics card
January 7, 2010 8:50:22 PM

And with that, the he gets the last words, as this thread has offtracked enough
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
January 8, 2010 12:57:38 AM

RealityRush said:
*shrug* .......


Way to ruin the thread Fanboi, your ignorance has been duly noted, now bugger-off! [:thegreatgrapeape:6]

!