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Help picking graphics card

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January 9, 2010 6:27:20 PM

Hey guys, This is actually my first post on this site. So try to stay with me as im a bit new on building a computer for gaming. I have already ordered all of my parts to come in except for the video card/ cards. I dont want to go much over 300 on the video card. Let me tell you my specs

MB: Biostar TA790GX A3+ (Can do crossfire 2 cards)
CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition Deneb 3.4GHz Quad Core 4 x 512KB L2, 6MB L3 Cache Socket AM3 140W
Generic Heatsink & Fan
RAM: 4GB DDR3 1333MHz (2x2GB)
HD: Hitachi 500GB 0A35415 SATA2 U300 7200rpm 16MB RoHS Internal Hard Drive
LG DVD burner
650 Watt Power Supply
OS: Will be Windows 7 64bit

Basically im going to be playing on a 22" monitor and nothing larger. Should i go with the Radeon 5770 (possibly crossfire) or just a 5850. The 5870s are a bit out of my price range. I dont really care for any nvidia cards to tell you the truth. It seems like ATI has better deals for the money. (If im wrong tell me, lol im new to cards and gaming on the pc)

Also, Iv never overclocked a Cpu, but im thinking bout reading up on it and trying it. (I know ill have to get another Heatsink and fan im sure) Any help would be nice guys!!

More about : picking graphics card

January 9, 2010 6:50:38 PM

A 22" monitor with 1680 x 1050 resolution is easy for today's card. As you are new to PC gaming, I'll assume you game on consoles? PC are way ahead of the consoles in terms of hardware. There is a general complaint in the PC gaming universe about graphics not really improving over the past couple years due to the lack of hardware upgrades and ported games from the aging consoles. The 5770 should be more than enough with your set up. Try ONE. You won't be disappointed, if you think one isnt enough, two will be. I am actually thinking the 5850 may be overkill.
January 9, 2010 7:00:45 PM

I was thinking the 5850 might be overkill too for my 22". Im not planning on getting a larger moniter either... soo it makes it easy for me. And yes, I play some console games... but actually prefer to play them on a computer set up. The 5770 seems the way to go for me. But im wanting this to last at least a year (longer, hopefully) ... im sure 2 of these would be fine for the near future? correct?
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January 9, 2010 7:10:02 PM

IMO, one 5770 will be fine for at least another year. In crossfire, that set up will last you well into the next gerneration of consoles and the next big improvement in graphics. (assuming you stay with your 22")

January 9, 2010 7:23:56 PM

Awsome, Thats what I wanted to hear. Out of the 5770s that I have seen, I think I'll end up odering the SAPPHIRE Vapor-X one off of Newegg. Might as well get it for a few extra dollars. (Im sure I can fix the bad bios issue)

Thanks alot to both of you for your fast replies and advice :) 
a c 212 U Graphics card
January 9, 2010 7:33:06 PM

http://www.tomshardware.com/review [...] ,2491.html

Here's the "winners" from THG's latest (December) GFX Roundup
Best Graphics Cards For The Money: December '09

$50 - HD 4650
$65 - HD 4670 / 9600 GSO
$85 - 9600 GT
$95 - 9600 GT / HD 4830
$110 - GTS 250 512 MB
$120 - GTS 250 1 GB

$155 - HD 5770 / GTX 260
$200 - HD 4890
$240 - 2 x GTS 250
$310 - No winner (HD 5850 Honorable Mention)
$330 - 2 x GTX 260 / 2 x HD 5770
$400 - 2 x HD 4890
$410 - No winner (HD 5870 Honorable Mention)
$465 - No winner (GTX 295 Honorable Mention)
$625 - No winner (HD 5970 Honorable Mention)

I can't recommend the 5770 as it's overkill for 1680 x 1050 and that it's handily beaten by the 4870 and 260.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3658&p=14

But we don’t have that luxury with the Radeon HD 5700 series. The value of the 5770 in particular is clearly not going to be in its performance. Compared to AMD’s 4870, it loses well more than it wins, and if we throw out Far Cry 2, it’s around 10% slower overall. It also spends most of its time losing to NVIDIA’s GTX 260, which unfortunately the 4870 didn’t have so much trouble with. AMD clearly has put themselves in to a hole with memory bandwidth, and the 5770 doesn’t have enough of it to reach the performance it needs to be at.

Again, no need to go into the $150 + range when a $85 - $110 card will do all you need at that resolution.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-310-5970,24...
January 9, 2010 7:50:32 PM

I have considered getting the 4870, but the reason i didnt include it was bc of DX11. Which i know very few games use, but i would rather get it for the future. I do not want to upgrade this computer within a year or more.
a c 376 U Graphics card
January 9, 2010 7:56:49 PM

An HD5770 should be good for your resolution for quite a while.
a c 212 U Graphics card
January 10, 2010 3:42:00 PM

jon88 said:
I have considered getting the 4870, but the reason i didnt include it was bc of DX11. Which i know very few games use, but i would rather get it for the future. I do not want to upgrade this computer within a year or more.


Will you be upgrading GFX again before XMas 2011, if the answer is yes, get the 5xxx .... but not the 5770 ..... it and it's competition (4870/260) have all risen oin porioce so much they no longer offer good bang for the buck. I's move up or down a category. From the same article quoted above

So here’s the bottom line for the 5770: Unless you absolutely need to take advantage of the lower power requirements of the 40nm process (e.g. you pay a ton for power) or you strongly believe that DirectX 11 will have a developer adoption rate faster than anything we’ve seen before for DirectX, the 1GB 4870 or GTX 260 is still the way to go

Can we really expect DX11 to be adopted faster than any other version of DX ? I'm saying no. And by the time it does hit, the load it puts on any serious game will choke a 2 year old 5770....or any moderately priced current card today. Just look what Dirt2 does to performance and it incorporates DX11 only to a minor extent.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/dirt-2-performance-...

Enabling DirectX 11 has a massive impact on performance. The Radeon HD 5750 and 5770 can easily handle the high 2560x1600 resolution in DirectX 9 mode, but in DirectX 11 mode things become very choppy. With DirectX 11 taking a colossal performance toll.

I'd move up to the 5850 or down to the GTS 250 and upgrade again come XMas 2011.

When playing the game with a Radeon HD 5750, we probably wouldn't use the DirectX 11 code path unless we had a 1680x1050 or a lower-resolution monitor because we like 4x AA. Armed with a Radeon HD 5850, on the other hand, we'd use DirectX 11 enabled all the way to 2560x1600 with 4x AA, as long as we didn't experience a slowdown in performance (and our experience suggests we would not).

Having said that, should you wait for a DirectX 11 card to play DiRT 2? Decidedly, no. The DirectX 9 code path is so slick and beautiful that it's almost impossible to notice the DirectX 11 enhancements while playing. I consider these enhancements a nice subtle bonus if the hardware is there to enjoy it, but the game is practically just as stunning when running in DirectX 9 mode.


In short....the 5770 has no real future with DX11...to my mind it doesn't even have a present. If you're looking to future proof, a DX11 label just doesn't cut it, it also has to be able to play DX11 at reasonable levels and the 5770 has not shown that ability even at today's minor incorporation of Dx11 features.
a c 216 U Graphics card
January 10, 2010 3:59:26 PM

I just wanted to mention that enabling DX11 gives you a performance increase, not hit. Look at Battleforge for a compraison, the DX11 has about 10% higher framerate over DX10, and DX10 has a 10% higher framerate than DX9 in that game.

It's not DX11 that gives the performance hit, it's some of the extra visual improvements that give it a performance hit. Tessellation being the main culprit. Tessellation, which was added to DX11, does give a performance hit, but not just because it's DX11. Not all DX11 games will use tessellation.
January 10, 2010 6:01:28 PM

JackNaylorPE said:
Will you be upgrading GFX again before XMas 2011, if the answer is yes, get the 5xxx .... but not the 5770 ..... it and it's competition (4870/260) have all risen oin porioce so much they no longer offer good bang for the buck. I's move up or down a category. From the same article quoted above

So here’s the bottom line for the 5770: Unless you absolutely need to take advantage of the lower power requirements of the 40nm process (e.g. you pay a ton for power) or you strongly believe that DirectX 11 will have a developer adoption rate faster than anything we’ve seen before for DirectX, the 1GB 4870 or GTX 260 is still the way to go

Can we really expect DX11 to be adopted faster than any other version of DX ? I'm saying no. And by the time it does hit, the load it puts on any serious game will choke a 2 year old 5770....or any moderately priced current card today. Just look what Dirt2 does to performance and it incorporates DX11 only to a minor extent.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/dirt-2-performance-...

Enabling DirectX 11 has a massive impact on performance. The Radeon HD 5750 and 5770 can easily handle the high 2560x1600 resolution in DirectX 9 mode, but in DirectX 11 mode things become very choppy. With DirectX 11 taking a colossal performance toll.

I'd move up to the 5850 or down to the GTS 250 and upgrade again come XMas 2011.

When playing the game with a Radeon HD 5750, we probably wouldn't use the DirectX 11 code path unless we had a 1680x1050 or a lower-resolution monitor because we like 4x AA. Armed with a Radeon HD 5850, on the other hand, we'd use DirectX 11 enabled all the way to 2560x1600 with 4x AA, as long as we didn't experience a slowdown in performance (and our experience suggests we would not).

Having said that, should you wait for a DirectX 11 card to play DiRT 2? Decidedly, no. The DirectX 9 code path is so slick and beautiful that it's almost impossible to notice the DirectX 11 enhancements while playing. I consider these enhancements a nice subtle bonus if the hardware is there to enjoy it, but the game is practically just as stunning when running in DirectX 9 mode.


In short....the 5770 has no real future with DX11...to my mind it doesn't even have a present. If you're looking to future proof, a DX11 label just doesn't cut it, it also has to be able to play DX11 at reasonable levels and the 5770 has not shown that ability even at today's minor incorporation of Dx11 features.



I do agree with you almost 100%. I know many of the 4xxx series outperformes the 5xxx. But you have to see what im talking about here. As I stated in my previous post, I will be staying with the 22" monitor. So at a resolution at that size the 5770 will do perfectly fine in DX11. (I think) As they say in that guide u just posted "When playing the game with a Radeon HD 5750, we probably wouldn't use the DirectX 11 code path unless we had a 1680x1050". So what I am seeing in these cards is... 4 series= a bit more performance at a lower price. 5 series= a bit less performance but dx11 for the furure. I would rather take a little less performance and have a DX11 card for the future. Do you think this card cant operate a 1680x1050 in DX11?? Bc im under the assumption that it will do great??
a c 376 U Graphics card
January 10, 2010 6:24:36 PM

The HD5750 is actually slightly better than the HD4850 while the HD5770 is slightly weaker than the HD4870. The performance difference isn't as large as Jack makes out however as the initial reviews he is talking about were based on beta drivers.
I think it's likely to do well in DX11 mode at that resolution. Honestly no one knows yet as there are very few DX11 games out so far and it all depends on how developers use it.
January 10, 2010 9:27:53 PM

jyjjy said:
The HD5750 is actually slightly better than the HD4850 while the HD5770 is slightly weaker than the HD4870. The performance difference isn't as large as Jack makes out however as the initial reviews he is talking about were based on beta drivers.
I think it's likely to do well in DX11 mode at that resolution. Honestly no one knows yet as there are very few DX11 games out so far and it all depends on how developers use it.



Thats what im beginning to find out. We wont know exactly how good these cards are until we see more of DX11. Its just too new it seems. But jack I do see your point, as it was stupid for them to make a 5770 card that has less performace than the 4870. lol
And of course, if I had a 4870 or 4850 already, I wouldnt upgrade to the 5770. Wouldnt seem worth it. But starting from scratch it still seems as one of the best options.
January 11, 2010 12:06:12 AM

Alright guys... i ended up ordering the Sapphire Vapor-X 5770 off of Newegg.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

After researching a little more, i ended up picking that one. Thanks for all your help guys, with all this info it actually did make it hard to decide which one. lol If u get a chance read this review on the 5770 i ordered. It actually looks like it did very well.

http://www.pureoverclock.com/review.php?id=880&page=1

Ill update this post when i have my pc built and running to give you my thoughts on it. :)  thanks all
a c 376 U Graphics card
January 11, 2010 12:58:43 AM

That's a good card although a bit on the pricey side for an HD5770.
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