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HD 4650 with 250W PSU (14A 12V) with Quad Core prossessor?

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January 15, 2010 6:33:48 PM

Hi guys, I'm interested in purchasing an HD 4650 graphics card. I have my sights on this card as from what I've read it can run fine on a 250W PSU (14a 12v), and it comes "low profile", which is essential because I have a slim PC (Packard Bell imedia X520. I also have a Core 2 Quad prossessor and 3GB RAM. I'm interested in using it to play games on decent settings. So, do you think my PC will run? If not, could you suggest alternatives please? Thanks.
January 15, 2010 6:36:08 PM

I don't think it will work. I would suggest a minimum of 450 watt PSU.
January 15, 2010 7:13:41 PM

So I should go ahead and get the card?
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January 15, 2010 7:16:32 PM

And as much as I would love to get a bigger PSU, I don't think I can as I believe my current PSU is unique, and so cannot be upgraded.
January 15, 2010 7:35:53 PM

what model is the computer?
maximum power needed by the 4650 is 48w ( be it agp pr pci-ex )
also 250w should work, but getting a bigger will only give you more room.
January 15, 2010 7:36:51 PM

Okay thanks :) 
January 15, 2010 7:37:54 PM

Packard Bell imedia X4520
January 15, 2010 7:39:59 PM

I'd love to get a 9600 or 9800GT but I'm pretty sure my 250W won't suffice. And aslong as I can help it I'd rather not put my mATX mobo in an ATX case simplybecause I'm lazy. ;) 
January 15, 2010 7:42:37 PM

And don't have a lot of experience when it comes to modding anything more than a graphics card. :) 
January 15, 2010 7:46:52 PM

ja1234 said:
And don't have a lot of experience when it comes to modding anything more than a graphics card. :) 



thats cool. also for 9600 or 9800, u'd need 400w, i remember i blew up my 9800gt with a 305w psu. played crysis straight for 6 hours, & resulted in the failure.

get yourself an avatar.
January 15, 2010 7:48:25 PM

lol guess I'll go for the 4650 after all then, thanks for the quick responses guys :) 
a b U Graphics card
January 15, 2010 8:11:03 PM

Hi ja1234,

Yes, a 4650 would be good choice given your limitations. It should work fine on your power supply. However it isnt really a true gaming card and will likely only let you play newer games on medium-medium high resolutions.

I cant seem to find a photo of your computers guts--but it doesnt seem to look all that narrow from the outside. Are you certain your power supply is nonstandard? It could be micro atx and still replaceable... also if you were interested its really not at all difficult to switch cases-- its only like 6 screws that hold the motherboard in place.


-----------------------
...and okini55... what did I tell you about starting all your posts with "I think"
--I wasn't joking.
a b U Graphics card
January 15, 2010 8:32:01 PM

ja1234 said:
Hi guys, I'm interested in purchasing an HD 4650 graphics card. I have my sights on this card as from what I've read it can run fine on a 250W PSU (14a 12v), and it comes "low profile", which is essential because I have a slim PC (Packard Bell imedia X520. I also have a Core 2 Quad prossessor and 3GB RAM. I'm interested in using it to play games on decent settings. So, do you think my PC will run? If not, could you suggest alternatives please? Thanks.



well, the PCI-E 1.0 standard provided 75W to the slot and PCI-E 2.0 I believe provides 150W. so if the card has no external power connector, then that's the max it can draw. Now the 4650 is one of the more powerful cards without an external connector so it'll probably draw close to those maximums.

So, one thing you need to ascertain is that your motherboard is PCI-E 2.0 compliant. After that, you need to determine if the rest of the machine can get by with just 100W. With a quad core, that's unlikely but I suppose it depends on which quad core you have. I believe there are 65W quad cores, and with that, you might be OK, but it's really pushing the PSU to the limit- every component will need to be efficient. I'd say you need at least 300 to 350W PSU, assuming your quad core is a standard 95-125W part. If you have some crazy 140W CPU, then you need at least 400W.
January 15, 2010 8:35:42 PM

If I can replace the PSU I'd love to as it would obviously give me a far wider choice. How can I tell whether my PSU is replaceable? The PSU is a Hipro HP-D250AA0.
January 15, 2010 8:40:53 PM

And My mobo is PCI-E 2.0 compliant, I know that much :)  As for the CPU all I know is that it's Intel, has a clock speed of 2.5GHz, front bus speed of 1333MHz and a 4GB cache. Maximum power dissipation - 95W.
January 15, 2010 8:42:32 PM

Quote:
Googling the Hipro HP-D250AA0 doesnt give back much info. Is there any chance that you could take a picture of the PSU and its 20-pin/24-pin cable please?

Does that mean I will have to remove the PSU? Because I'd rather not :) 
a c 106 U Graphics card
January 15, 2010 8:45:55 PM

Personally I wouldn't try running a 4650 with a 250W PSU. Even though the system with a 4650 may use a little less than 250W, there is no guarantee that your weak PSU can sustain that output for any length of time and thus you risk burning it out or worse.

As for upgrading your PSU honestly it just depends on how much room is your your case. I can't really find any info on your X520, so I guess that would take some research on your part. If it's a mini-ITX (the PSU is a long rectangle like a cracker box) you don't have too many options. If it's MicroATX (like ATX PSUs but smaller), then you have more options, though they cost more than similar ATX PSUs.
January 15, 2010 8:51:27 PM

megamanx00 said:
Personally I wouldn't try running a 4650 with a 250W PSU. Even though the system with a 4650 may use a little less than 250W, there is no guarantee that your weak PSU can sustain that output for any length of time and thus you risk burning it out or worse.

As for upgrading your PSU honestly it just depends on how much room is your your case. I can't really find any info on your X520, so I guess that would take some research on your part. If it's a mini-ITX (the PSU is a long rectangle like a cracker box) you don't have too many options. If it's MicroATX (like ATX PSUs but smaller), then you have more options, though they cost more than similar ATX PSUs.

Okay, my PSU is square and does look like a conventional PSU just smaller.
January 15, 2010 9:00:15 PM

Are CiT any good? Because there's a 500W mATX PSU on Amazon for £37.00 which seems like a pretty good deal.
January 15, 2010 9:47:29 PM

Quote:
Your British, makes it easier for me to help you if you want the best quotes :) 

As far as PSUs go look out for the following brands: OCZ, Thermal Take, Cooler Master, Quiet PC, Antec, BFG etc.

Indeed I am :)  checked all of the big brands and most did not make a mATX PSU (As far as I could see anyway). Those that did went up to about 300-350W, which is more than my current PSU but not by much. The best i've seen so far (exc. the CiT ones) is the Diablotek PHD380M 380W mATX PSU. Though I'm a bit concerned as the brand is on the Not Recommended list on megamanx00's link. :S
a c 106 U Graphics card
January 15, 2010 9:49:58 PM

^ not sure he want's to replace his case too.

Anyway, since there aren't many mATX PSUs out there the choice will be a little difficult. If you find something better than that CiT go for it. If there aren't any name brand PSUs, then make sure you compare the amps on the rails of your available choices and google them to see if they have any oddities or unusually high failure rates.
a c 106 U Graphics card
January 15, 2010 9:50:59 PM

Diablotek PSUs generally aren't too good. You would be better off with the higher wattage CiT PSU.
a b U Graphics card
January 15, 2010 9:54:48 PM

Ja1234,

I know this thread has been all over the place, but if you are considering replacing your power supply you would be better served just doing both the PSU and case together.

1. full size power supplies are better quality and cheaper. I looked up micro atx, and none of the really good brands seem to make them... (at least not on newegg)

2. Even if you up your power supply you would still be limited to low-profile cards in that case. While low profile cards are common in the lower end models you wont have the option of getting anything very powerful.. You can get case and power supply combos pretty cheap...

Before we go there however I should have asked some basic questions that will help us advise you better:

A. What kind of gaming performance do you actually want? at what resolution?
B. How much would you be willing to spend total?

Your answers to these two questions should determine whether you want to just get a 4560, or do a complete overhaul of your case.
January 15, 2010 10:06:19 PM

deadlockedworld said:
Ja1234,

I know this thread has been all over the place, but if you are considering replacing your power supply you would be better served just doing both the PSU and case together.

1. full size power supplies are better quality and cheaper. I looked up micro atx, and none of the really good brands seem to make them... (at least not on newegg)

2. Even if you up your power supply you would still be limited to low-profile cards in that case. While low profile cards are common in the lower end models you wont have the option of getting anything very powerful.. You can get case and power supply combos pretty cheap...

Before we go there however I should have asked some basic questions that will help us advise you better:

A. What kind of gaming performance do you actually want? at what resolution?
B. How much would you be willing to spend total?

Your answers to these two questions should determine whether you want to just get a 4560, or do a complete overhaul of your case.

Tbh I would prefer to be able to play demanding games on highest settings (In an ideal World), on a resolution of 1280x1024. Though I'd be happier to settle with a 400ishW mATX PSU than rebuilding my comp. My budget is about £100. If I was to buy a new case with a full size PSU I'd probably go the whole hog and get a top-range graphics card.
January 15, 2010 10:28:13 PM

Quote:
Just trust us we know what we're talking about.

The ATI 4670 can be had for less than £50 :) 

Casecom KB-7760 Black ATX Midi Tower Case £8.16
Antec Basiq Power 500W PSU - 20+4pin 2x SATA 1x PCI-E 5x Molex £46.44
ASUS HD 4670 512MB DDR3 £49.35

Total: £103.95 (free super saver delivery)

^ That is on your total budget and I managed to put a slightly faster card in the basket, the quality Antecy PSU and case means that you can upgrade the GPU in a year without worrying about power issues and/or fitting it into the case :) 


http://www.ebuyer.com/product/175756
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/114929
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/108280

Sounds good :) 
Alternatively Arianet 400W mATX PSU - £15.00 (too good to be true?)
GeForce 9600 or 9800GT (low profile) - £60.00 for 9600, £75.00 for 9800
How's that? Should I trust the PSU?
(Btw, thanks for the effort guys, I appreciate it :) 
January 15, 2010 10:42:27 PM

Okay, so if I was to get the case and full size PSU, is the process of transferring the mobo (and then connecting the PSU and graphics card) an easy one? One that can be performed by a beginner? If so, I'll get it. And is the HD 4670 much better than the 4650?
a b U Graphics card
January 16, 2010 12:09:26 AM

Yes, replacing the power supply is easy. All you have to do is take a picture of where everything plugs in--then put them back in the same spot.

If you get a new PSU you might as well spend more and get a better graphic card too. The 4670 is only the best choice on a limited power supply. The 9800gt is the best low profile card available, or if you have a full size case I would go up to a 5770 or so.
January 16, 2010 1:56:18 AM

Quote:
WTF are you talking about dude! 450W?? haha!! are you F*KING R***DED? Its a HD 4650. Of course it will run. 300W would be better though.


You DO realize there are several other components besides the GPU drawing energy, right? And that a PSU works optimally when its under 50% load, RIGHT? Or no do you just give out BS advice left right and center? Most quad cores will need 95-125 watts to even run STOCK that knocks your suggestion out of the park, pissant.
January 16, 2010 11:02:51 AM

deadlockedworld said:
Yes, replacing the power supply is easy. All you have to do is take a picture of where everything plugs in--then put them back in the same spot.

If you get a new PSU you might as well spend more and get a better graphic card too. The 4670 is only the best choice on a limited power supply. The 9800gt is the best low profile card available, or if you have a full size case I would go up to a 5770 or so.

Would any mATX PSU fit into an mATX PC? Because I've found a 350W Seasonic SFX mATX PSU for £50.00. Seasonic are good right? I like the look of this PSU as a 350W PSU would give me decent headroom and may even enable me to play a 9600/9800GT low pro. Do youthink 350W is enough for my current specs plus a 9600GT or 9800GT?
January 16, 2010 11:19:54 AM

Okay, I appriciate all of the advice telling me not to go with cheap PSUs however this one seems perfect. Sumvision 450W mATX PSU - £15.00 (eBuyer) and ALL of the reviews rate it at 4 - 5 stars, saying it's an exception to the "don't buy a cheap PSU" policy. 450W would surely be enough to run my comp with a 9600/9800GT low pro right?
a b U Graphics card
January 16, 2010 11:29:02 AM

ja1234 said:
Okay, I appriciate all of the advice telling me not to go with cheap PSUs however this one seems perfect. Sumvision 450W mATX PSU - £15.00 (eBuyer) and ALL of the reviews rate it at 4 - 5 stars, saying it's an exception to the "don't buy a cheap PSU" policy. 450W would surely be enough to run my comp with a 9600/9800GT low pro right?


I just looked it up on ebuyer-- the sites does not give its actual specifications. I cant tell because "high efficiency" doesnt say anything if it doesnt give you a number or certification. Also it doesn't specify amperage--which is the most important part in buying a PSU. Online reviewers typically dont know much.

If you can find the specs though and they aren't terrible-- yea a decent 350 with good amperage could run the 9800gt and would be a good choice.
a b U Graphics card
January 16, 2010 11:36:14 AM

I also started looking around ebuyer-- and have you actually found a good low profile graphics card? Because I didnt see anything better than the 4650 there available in low profile.
January 16, 2010 11:46:03 AM

deadlockedworld said:
I also started looking around ebuyer-- and have you actually found a good low profile graphics card? Because I didnt see anything better than the 4650 there available in low profile.

No, but the 4650 is not a bad graphics card right? And at least with the 450W I could run it without risking the system due to low wattage.
a b U Graphics card
January 16, 2010 12:14:06 PM

If you look back at this thread there was only one person that thought you couldnt run a 4650 on your current power supply--he was wrong. It's true that you are kind of pushing the limit of the power supply--but it should work just fine. (although i understand if you dont want to)

I was recommending the new power supply only if you wanted to get a low profile 9800GT or if you were going to pop into a new case and get a real card.

Try some power suppy calculators if you are unsure. This one is very detailed.
http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp

http://www.thermaltake.outervision.com/index.jsp
January 16, 2010 12:22:17 PM

deadlockedworld said:
If you look back at this thread there was only one person that thought you couldnt run a 4650 on your current power supply--he was wrong. It's true that you are kind of pushing the limit of the power supply--but it should work just fine. (although i understand if you dont want to)

I was recommending the new power supply only if you wanted to get a low profile 9800GT or if you were going to pop into a new case and get a real card.

Try some power suppy calculators if you are unsure. This one is very detailed.
http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp

http://www.thermaltake.outervision.com/index.jsp

Yeah, I think it's a little too detailed for me! :)  I only know the basics when it's comes to my comp. But do you really think my PC would run with the 4650? Considering the prossessor alone will run on about 95W? If so, what are the chances of my comp not working? And what kind of thing would I expect to happen? If it's just the PSU that blows then that's fine, I'll simply replace it. If the entire system blows then I don't really want to be replacing the entire thing!
January 16, 2010 12:25:26 PM

Quote:
Yes.




Seasonic usually make decent PSUs generally speaking, 350W would be boarderline, but it should be enough.

I still stand by my previous recommendation though

I respect that, and appreciate the effort you've put into recommending me stuff. However if I can run the 4650 on my current PSU then I would rather that. If not, then I would rather simply get a 350W - 450W that can run it and do it that way. Your way would be a last resort for me. :) 
January 16, 2010 12:27:24 PM

Quote:
SumVision isnt known for PSU's, they are known for MP3 players. I wouldn’t want an MP3 player specialist making my computer components, in all honesty if you're looking at MATX you will not find anything good below £50 often, this usually applies to ATX PSUs too but the specification/price ratio is often better. I think you'll be better off reading "how to articles" and watching a video on YouTube about swapping out the case because all you are doing is throwing money away for a solution which isn’t feasible in the long run.

I also had a browse online (ebuyer) and I couldn’t find a low profile 9600 GT or a 9800 GT (they do exist though). I’m sure a low profile 9800 GT would cost almost as much as a faster regular sized Nvidia GTS 250 or a ATI 5750.

Okay, then I think what I will do is get the 4650 and try it on my current PSU, if I have any problems then I'll get the Seasonic PSU. How's that? :) 
January 16, 2010 1:08:06 PM

Quote:
I think it would work seemlingly well, however I believe it will cause a lot of stress and heat on your current PSU which might cause problems down the line (months, years). The question you have to ask yourself is regardless of the power issues ask yourself "will the 4650 satisfy my needs?" because at one point you said "would prefer to be able to play demanding games on highest settings", if that’s the case the 4650 isn’t the right card for you anyhow.

Okay, can you get cases that come with PSUs pre-installed? Because I think that would make my life easier. Also the videos you provided seem kind of comlplicated and I would hate to make a mistake and mess everything up. But If I was to get the case and PSU for say £40 what would be the best graphics card for about £60
January 16, 2010 1:27:22 PM

Quote:
The cases with PSU's installed will not fetch for that price, you'd be looking at start at around £70 roughly. Those cases that somehow sell PSUs in them at low prices i.e. £40 usually come equipped with bad generic PSUs or are from unknown dodgy brands. The only way you can get both a case and a decent PSU on your budget is to buy separately. In terms of installing the PSU into the case, its a matter of putting in 4 screws that can only fit in one predetermined place.

Okay, that seems like the best thing to do in my situation then, what graphics card would you recommend that would be an improvement on the 4650, should I go with the 9800GT?
January 16, 2010 1:35:16 PM

Quote:
Watch this power supply installation video. Its more intuitive than the other videos I sent

http://video.about.com/pcsupport/powersupply.htm




The 9800 GT is an improvement but you'd have to increase your budget, I rarely see the 9800 GT go for less than £90 which is cutting into your £100 total budget, once you add on the PSU and case costs you'll be closer to £150. The only choice is to get the 4670 if you want to stand a chance at getting everything at £100.

This graph should help you decide the relative performance of the video cards in question,.

http://tpucdn.com/reviews/Powercolor/HD_5750_PCS/images/perfrel.gif

Okay, that's what I'll do then, thanks for your advice mate :) 
a b U Graphics card
January 16, 2010 2:13:51 PM

Wow... we are flip-flopping all over the place on this thread lol.

BDDazza--im impressed that you finally convinced him to go all the way lol. I think this is the better option (as I expressed earlier too--but apparently not as convincingly). Doing it the right way now will be better for you down the line than doing a half-upgrade now. (I just didnt think it was worth upgrading if he was still getting a tiny 4650)

+1 Seasonic is a very good power supply brand and I would trust most of their products.
+1 installing a power supply is like 4 screws and 4 plugs--very easy.
+1 to the 9800GT, which is a good option--but even if you do end up going with the 4670 this is still a good choice--because with the larger case you can always watch for graphic card sales in the future and upgrade again.
January 17, 2010 5:52:15 AM

You can drive with your feet too, OP, if you like though the chance of an accident will be increased 100x. Same with a power supply. Ditch these ideas and just drop some cash into a decent 400w+ power supply. 1) they're cheap 2) you will not have as many upgrade issues as you will in the future and 3) it will actually work for more than a few months. Can't believe it is recommended to keep the current power supply even on page 2. Toms is turning into epic fail central.
a b U Graphics card
January 17, 2010 12:24:15 PM

werxen said:
You can drive with your feet too, OP, if you like though the chance of an accident will be increased 100x. Same with a power supply. Ditch these ideas and just drop some cash into a decent 400w+ power supply. 1) they're cheap 2) you will not have as many upgrade issues as you will in the future and 3) it will actually work for more than a few months. Can't believe it is recommended to keep the current power supply even on page 2. Toms is turning into epic fail central.


The most common instance of "fail" I see on toms is when people post clear, simple questions about upgrading their computers and members dont read/respond to the questions that were asked or dont respect the budget/effort limitations set by the OP.

The op asked a question, I answered it directly--then offered my suggestion that he follow a better route. This is all we can or should do.
February 5, 2010 10:59:11 AM

Can ja1234 or anyone confirm for sure that the PSU is a mATX and that the case can only accomadate low profile cards?

I have the same PC (x4520) and would appear to be in the same predicament as ja1234.

I haven't opened the case yet but looking at some of the screenshots on the packard bell site it looks like you could fit a fullsize gpu card in there. The case has the same width as a normal ATX tower it just appears shorter because it has only one optical drive bay and only allows two expansion ports.

If you navigate to the chassis section there are some pics of the case interior.

http://support.packardbell.com/uk/item/?pn=PT.U3302.013...
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