Now The Real Battle...... START

Its shows that Nvidia next generation GPU .............code name:fermi.........product series: Geforce 100 series>>>looks very

promising............

Will it demonish ATi (am a Nvidia fan..) lastest and oncoming GPU from the red team.............

only the future will tell us...


<RED> :fou: .............OR..........<GREEN> :bounce: ........

<WHO WILL WIN>>..??
295 answers Last reply
More about real battle start
  1. NONE

    Now it's ATI

    TOMMOROW will be NVIDIA

    THE DAY AFTER TOMMOROW will be ATI

    THE DAY AFTER that will be NVIDIA


    This would never end
  2. +5^^whatever ati does ,nvidia will come up with an answer and vice versa
  3. The chances of the Fermi bringing nVidia over ATI are very slim so far.

    http://www.semiaccurate.com/2010/01/17/nvidia-gf100-takes-280w-and-unmanufacturable/

    EVEN if it does do better then ATI's best, it doesnt matter. it costs 2.5x as much to make as the ATI equiv, so there is no way it can be priced competitively without nVidia taking a loss.
  4. ^^^^^^^

    HA

    ATI FAN
  5. mfarrukh said:
    ^^^^^^^

    HA

    ATI FAN


    No actually, ive only ever used nVidia GFX cards so far ( though i will be buying ATI here shortly ). im just not a blinded idiot fanboi to think nvidia is going to be like OMG WTF I MUST HAVE DIF CARDF!!!.1.111oneoneone.
  6. We will have to see because for the moment we only have a cherry picked benchmark that if put in the normal reviewer perspective is a bit underwhelming.
  7. Truhls said:
    No actually, ive only ever used nVidia GFX cards so far ( though i will be buying ATI here shortly ). im just not a blinded idiot fanboi to think nvidia is going to be like OMG WTF I MUST HAVE DIF CARDF!!!.1.111oneoneone.



    Yea, But NVIDIA know market well.
    The are aware of the current market situation of how ATI is dominating for couple of months.


    So, you can't go on saying ''EVEN if it does do better then ATI's best, it doesnt matter. it costs 2.5x as much to make as the ATI equiv, so there is no way it can be priced competitively without nVidia taking a loss.''


    And how do you know that FERMI costs 2.5x greater?


    Even That article is not real.

    Tell me, that the guy who wrote it has made the FERMI card.
  8. mfarrukh said:
    Yea, But NVIDIA know market well.
    The are aware of the current market situation of how ATI is dominating for couple of months.


    So, you can't go on saying ''EVEN if it does do better then ATI's best, it doesnt matter. it costs 2.5x as much to make as the ATI equiv, so there is no way it can be priced competitively without nVidia taking a loss.''


    And how do you know that FERMI costs 2.5x greater?


    Even That article is not real.

    Tell me, that the guy who wrote it has made the FERMI card.


    Maybe because it has been confirmed fermi i using a far larger die then the ATI models? And because of that the chips per wafer are going to be less, and any defects on said wafer are more significant. All of which i common sense for any idiots to understand. that alone makes the fermi more expensive to make. and that is something that has been PROVEN.

    And the article probably isnt all real, but it probably has some truth to it and it is a good read besides.

    Also with nVidia faking the fermi based GPU, that is just lawl.
  9. You seen it?

    How's that proven.
    You have the card?

    WOW, you are a lucky man to get it before anyone else.


    WOW
  10. mfarrukh said:
    Yea, But NVIDIA know market well.
    The are aware of the current market situation of how ATI is dominating for couple of months.


    So, you can't go on saying ''EVEN if it does do better then ATI's best, it doesnt matter. it costs 2.5x as much to make as the ATI equiv, so there is no way it can be priced competitively without nVidia taking a loss.''


    And how do you know that FERMI costs 2.5x greater?


    Even That article is not real.

    Tell me, that the guy who wrote it has made the FERMI card.


    Actually the Truhls is a right in some points, although in a fanboish way. I don't know if the cost of a Fermi chip is 2.5 times larger than Cypress, but it is a lot higher.
  11. mfarrukh said:
    You seen it?

    How's that proven.
    You have the card?

    WOW, you are a lucky man to get it before anyone else.


    WOW


    I am fairly certain nvidia has stated themselves what the die size is going to be. and if you dont believe nvidia then why are you their diehard fanboi?
  12. HA

    Who is the fanboy?

    ME?

    I am just telling you that you can't be certan that FERMI will cost this and run this hot and E.T.C.


    For the record,
    I never had a NVIDIA card off my 4 Video Cards.
  13. mfarrukh said:
    HA

    Who is the fanboy?

    ME?

    I am just telling you that you can't be certan that FERMI will cost this and run this hot and E.T.C.


    For the record,
    I never had a NVIDIA card off my 4 Video Cards.


    Regardless if what you say aside from what, a new respin ( which means waiting probably another 6 months for fermi ) no matter how you look at it fermi will cost more then ATI 's best chip to make. If nvidia decides to take the hit and have competitive pricing then good for them, either way its still a loss.
  14. Truhls said:
    The chances of the Fermi bringing nVidia over ATI are very slim so far.

    http://www.semiaccurate.com/2010/01/17/nvidia-gf100-takes-280w-and-unmanufacturable/

    EVEN if it does do better then ATI's best, it doesnt matter. it costs 2.5x as much to make as the ATI equiv, so there is no way it can be priced competitively without nVidia taking a loss.


    Hey buddy ,don't underestimate nVidia,its a much larger company than ATI(not AMD-Ati) and will be pumping in a lot more cash on its R&D....
  15. Well, the same thing again

    Make thousands of predictions, but you attitude seems ''certain''


    I am just pointing out that you can't be certain about FERMI yet
  16. mfarrukh said:
    HA

    Who is the fanboy?

    ME?

    I am just telling you that you can't be certan that FERMI will cost this and run this hot and E.T.C.


    For the record,
    I never had a NVIDIA card off my 4 Video Cards.


    Actually from the great chip surface ~550 mm^2 (deduced by reliable sites) and the poor 40 nm yield of TMSC you can safely say that the Fermi chip will cost higher to produce. The unknown fact is the price with which nVidia will sell them to produce competition for ATI.
  17. when Fermi and Cypress enter the rings another battle between Nvidiots and ATIdiots will go along with it :D

    btw i'm looking forward to pure performance comparison between equivalent Fermi and Cypress regardless of price vs performance aspect. :)
  18. renz496 said:
    when Fermi and Cypress enter the rings another battle between Nvidiots and ATIdiots will go along with it :D

    btw i'm looking forward to pure performance comparison between equivalent Fermi and Cypress regardless of price vs performance aspect. :)


    I think we will have to wait for a little more. I hope that the Fermi will put nVidia back on track so I can get my ATI card cheaper :D
  19. What I've read and understand this will at least do DX 11 faster and better looking. if that took a bigger die, then so be it. Its useless to take a 40% performance hit like ATI's cards do. Fermi was shown screaming through Unigenes Heaven dx11 benchmark. And they are making claims of 50% faster than 5870. What counts is what this will cost at the store front. Not what some angry ati fan boi' deduces from die size and other guesstistics.
  20. notty22 said:
    What I've read and understand this will at least do DX 11 faster and better looking. if that took a bigger die, then so be it. Its useless to take a 40% performance hit like ATI's cards do. Fermi was shown screaming through Unigenes Heaven dx11 benchmark. And they are making claims of 50% faster than 5870. What counts is what this will cost at the store front. Not what some angry ati fan boi' deduces from die size and other guesstistics.


    You are falling for PR here mate. That is a synthetic benchmark and we all know what synthetic benchmarks mean in real world conditions. I believe you are falling for the hype instead of looking at the given numbers, which tell you something if you choose to listen. Just look at the youtube benchmark of a Fermi card against the 285GTX. We know they are real and we know the reviewer tested on Small ranch benchmark in Far Cry 2. We know the Fermi card scored 84 FPS. We alse know from reviews that the 5870 scores around that value + or - 2-3 FPS. Now the unknown here is the Fermi card tested. If it is the 360GTX then that puts it in the same ballpark as the 5870 and the 380GTX roughly 20% faster. That leaves Hemlock without competitor. If the card in question is the 380GTX I don't have to explain what that means.
    That is only 1 benchmark and doesn't prove anything. Same goes for Uniengine.

    My suggestion is to wait and see what will March give us. There is no point in starting flame wars for something that we have no data on.
  21. Just to get things back to earth here. Id remind everyone where these "benches" come from.
    These are Fermi at their best. And hand selected at that. We still have to wait, as theyve really done nothing yet, just keeping their name in the race is all
  22. JAYDEEJOHN said:
    Just to get things back to earth here. Id remind everyone where these "benches" come from.
    These are Fermi at their best. And hand selected at that. We still have to wait, as theyve really done nothing yet, just keeping their name in the race is all


    You are right jaydee. The benches come directly from nVidia so they are cherry picked. As I said earlier, we can't make any assumptions regarding this data. We can only guess on the architecture and raw GPU power numbers which seem pretty nice.
  23. Im interested in their new approach to triangle setup, even did a thread awhile ago on it, but no one contributed.
    This could be nice for tesselation, or not. From what Ive read, its close to the way ATIs shaders are layed out, meaning, yes 5/1, but those 5 arent often used, so too may nVidias solution regarding its triangle setup, and tesselation, tho time will tell, and benches arent real world, so unigine may have to be taken with a grain of salt, too early to tell yet
  24. JAYDEEJOHN said:
    Im interested in their new approach to triangle setup, even did a thread awhile ago on it, but no one contributed.
    This could be nice for tesselation, or not. From what Ive read, its close to the way ATIs shaders are layed out, meaning, yes 5/1, but those 5 arent often used, so too may nVidias solution regarding its triangle setup, and tesselation, tho time will tell, and benches arent real world, so unigine may have to be taken with a grain of salt, too early to tell yet


    From what I read regarding the Fermi tesselation(maybe I misunderstood) the chip is designed to use more shaders as the tesselation detailed is increased. ATI has a dedicated tesselation unit that doesn't change from 5750 to upper levels so I guess there is a limited power on the ATI side in this matter.
  25. Im done with upgrading for some time being since no games tend to need much power to run since most games are console ports. =[
  26. invisik said:
    Im done with upgrading for some time being since no games tend to need much power to run since most games are console ports. =[


    You are right about the games for the time being. I am not sure about upcoming DX11 titles like AvP.
    For now I will be buying a 26" monitor and keep my 4870. When Fermi comes I will study the market and decide if I will be buying a 5850 or wait for the 6800 series (probably the first because the power bill is killing me :lol: - could have bought another 4870 for the cost of 1 year's power bill).
  27. ^^^^^^^^^^^^
    +1
    Good one
  28. every day Nvidia delays, more poeple buy ATI. March is an optomistic release, it might be Summer.
  29. Rumors are running that mass production on Fermi hasnt started yet, and wont for almost a month
  30. last time i've heard that the production will begin in 3rd week of feb
  31. According to this article
    http://alienbabeltech.com/main/?p=14600&all=1
    The chips are already in mass production. When they hit, they are going to be a storm to be reckoned with. Single gpu flagship crown is their goal, I don't' think they are afraid to admit it. To expect them to bring less is wishful thinking.

  32. Even though those are handpicked benchmarks by nVidia (assuming they are real and not fake), 50% better than a 5870 under ideal, absolute best conditions is still pretty nuts. 10% less (which sounds dramatically different, but is probably an understatement, considering the nature of the benches) would still mean a single GPU Fermi card could match a dual GPU 5970. Tell me when the last time that has happened was.....

    Not to mention this card is going to make everything LOOK better than the 5800's according to what I've read.

    Kinda want to see what the Hemlock is going to bring to the table now though, cause nVidia seems to be trying to set the bar pretty friggin high...

    Before everyone yells "nVidia fanboi" at me, I've owned numerous cards from both companies, I go for the absolute best at the time when I need to upgrade, and that time is coming in the next couple of months when AvP3 comes out, just in time to see if Fermi is going to be worth the wait or not.

    If the Fermi high end cards MSRP at around $500 or $550, those cards are going to be a hurricane in the marketplace.
  33. RealityRush said:
    Even though those are handpicked benchmarks by nVidia (assuming they are real and not fake), 50% better than a 5870 under ideal, absolute best conditions is still pretty nuts. 10% less (which sounds dramatically different, but is probably an understatement, considering the nature of the benches) would still mean a single GPU Fermi card could match a dual GPU 5970. Tell me when the last time that has happened was.....

    Not to mention this card is going to make everything LOOK better than the 5800's according to what I've read.

    Kinda want to see what the Hemlock is going to bring to the table now though, cause nVidia seems to be trying to set the bar pretty friggin high...

    Before everyone yells "nVidia fanboi" at me, I've owned numerous cards from both companies, I go for the absolute best at the time when I need to upgrade, and that time is coming in the next couple of months when AvP3 comes out, just in time to see if Fermi is going to be worth the wait or not.


    Hemlock will not be touched by these nVidia single cards. The gap is too large. And as I said in my previous posts, even in these cherry picked scenarios nVidia doesn't quite win if you look deep enough, especially in the youtube benchmarks. In best case scenario the 360GTX will be ~ 10% better than the 5870. The higher end part with 512 CP (64 CP more than the 360GTX) will not come even close to the 5970.
  34. If they are going all out, then why this rumor of what weve seen so far is the neutered 448 chip? Im not buying it, and have better sources than appopin as to the mass production
  35. RealityRush said:
    Even though those are handpicked benchmarks by nVidia (assuming they are real and not fake), 50% better than a 5870 under ideal, absolute best conditions is still pretty nuts. 10% less (which sounds dramatically different, but is probably an understatement, considering the nature of the benches) would still mean a single GPU Fermi card could match a dual GPU 5970. Tell me when the last time that has happened was.....

    Not to mention this card is going to make everything LOOK better than the 5800's according to what I've read.

    Kinda want to see what the Hemlock is going to bring to the table now though, cause nVidia seems to be trying to set the bar pretty friggin high...

    Before everyone yells "nVidia fanboi" at me, I've owned numerous cards from both companies, I go for the absolute best at the time when I need to upgrade, and that time is coming in the next couple of months when AvP3 comes out, just in time to see if Fermi is going to be worth the wait or not.

    If the Fermi high end cards MSRP at around $500 or $550, those cards are going to be a hurricane in the marketplace.

    Imagine this. What if I chose only 8xAA at 25x16 pitting the 295 vs the 5870? How ould that look in the best for 5870 and the worst for 295?
  36. JAYDEEJOHN said:
    Imagine this. What if I chose only 8xAA at 25x16 pitting the 295 vs the 5870? How ould that look in the best for 5870 and the worst for 295?


    Good example jaydee. The 295 will have its mins in single digits and its maxes lower than the 5870 due to the limited memory. :lol:
  37. Like I said, we still have nothing, as nVidia is obviously showing a few bits of fermi at its best. Will it translate in real world? And will it do so thruout all games? No one knows.
  38. notty22 said:
    According to this article
    http://alienbabeltech.com/main/?p=14600&all=1
    The chips are already in mass production. When they hit, they are going to be a storm to be reckoned with. Single gpu flagship crown is their goal, I don't' think they are afraid to admit it. To expect them to bring less is wishful thinking.

    http://i482.photobucket.com/albums/rr185/notty222/fermi.png

    The 24kt Gold Plated fan shroud should give you some clue to the pricing. If you really think Nvidia will be affordable, look at the 240 GT prices in respect to its performance. Im guessing thier cut down version at launch will be around $600, and thier flagship this summer at $1k
  39. noob2222 said:
    The 24kt Gold Plated fan shroud should give you some clue to the pricing. If you really think Nvidia will be affordable, look at the 240 GT prices in respect to its performance. Im guessing thier cut down version at launch will be around $600, and thier flagship this summer at $1k


    They would be suicidal to launch at those prices. They've already pulled that with the 200 series and got screamed at over it. I doubt they'd repeat such a mistake.

    It's going to probably beat a 5870, and probably not beat a 5970, so I'm guessing the pricing will lie somewhere in between that. $500-550 MSRP is imo the closest estimates I've heard so far.

    As Jaydee put it though, "no one knows" yet :P
  40. noob2222 said:
    The 24kt Gold Plated fan shroud should give you some clue to the pricing. If you really think Nvidia will be affordable, look at the 240 GT prices in respect to its performance. Im guessing thier cut down version at launch will be around $600, and thier flagship this summer at $1k


    They are constrained to ATI prices. They will release the parts at the price points the performance dictates. It is likely it will be between the 5870 in performance, and price with some mark up depending on stocks and 'extras.'
  41. Nvidia will always beat ATI when it comes to compatibility, and that's the most important thing. A few framerates here and there really make no difference, but not being able to play games properly because of compatibility, makes a big difference. This is why I will stick with Nvidia from now on. ATI video cards just have too many hardware and software compatibility problems, and people know that, and that's why ATI cards sell for cheaper. Nvidia can command a higher price for their cards because they are the most compatible with better drivers.

    People can deny this all they want to, but the the primary reason anyone even considers ATI cards is not because of a few framerates here and there, it's because they are cheaper. But Nvidia makes the better product, period.
  42. I've never had any issues mustang, you must just be too stupid to use ATI cards properly.
  43. Mustang5521 said:
    Nvidia will always beat ATI when it comes to compatibility, and that's the most important thing. A few framerates here and there really make no difference, but not being able to play games properly because of compatibility, makes a big difference. This is why I will stick with Nvidia from now on. ATI video cards just have too many hardware and software compatibility problems, and people know that, and that's why ATI cards sell for cheaper. Nvidia can command a higher price for their cards because they are the most compatible with better drivers.

    People can deny this all they want to, but the the primary reason anyone even considers ATI cards is not because of a few framerates here and there, it's because they are cheaper. But Nvidia makes the better product, period.


    You should see a doctor.

    It is all fine and well you prefer brand X.. but don't try to spread your BS about what helps you qualify that choice in your head. Both brand have had their winners and losers, just like everything else in the world.
  44. Heres the problem. With G80, as was R600, both were large chips, and since G80 won out in perf, nVidia controlled the pricing margins.
    In the inerum, ATIs approach changed, went with a high perf chip, not top end, and downsized,
    What happened next is, with the 48xx series, they also took the pricing margins crown, or price/perf crown.
    This is great for ATI, as they have much room to manuever with their smaller chips, as they arent as expenseive to make as the large approach, and so far, the larger chips from nVidia havnt shown the ability to scale well, and have left that to a 3rd gen G92 type chip that scales only thru node change, and this well is drying up, as the 5xxx lower end show up, and design wins are used by the OEMs.
    This is bad news for nVidia, as it constrains their margins, having large chips, with niddle and low end nowheres in sight.
    Adding to that is the demand the gpgpu products will put on the hard to come by low yields of Fermis top 512 cards on a funky 40nm process, and then, we ask ourselves 2 questions
    How much, due to there being few
    And how few?
  45. ATI has worse drivers. nvidia has a bad one now and then, but ATI just seems to consistently release products with crap drivers and then forces their customers to wait months for the hotfix drivers.

    I agree both brands have had losers, but nVidia has had more consistent winners. Especially at the top end, that is why some people prefer them. You pay for reliability and performance with nVidia and that's usually what you get. ATI you buy because they are better value for your dollar, but they normally don't beat nVidia at performance, and usually not for very long. The past few months have been fairly unique in that regard. But ATI's win has been stunted by limited supply due to the whole TMSC incident.

    Oh, and I will repeat this again before I am slandered over and over, I buy from both companies, whoever has the better product. I have stacks of cards from nVidia and ATI to prove it, going all the way back to the Riva TNT days :P

    I keep hearing people on Tom's call everyone else a fanboi and say that ATI doesn't have driver issues anymore and I call BS. I've got plenty of evidence of people's **** going crazy on their fancy new 5800's cause of drivers, and they are now awaiting the 10.1 driver to fix it (it's still in beta).

    I'm getting sick of the ATI biased people on these forums brandishing the term "fanboy" like some kind of weapon. Ohreally, that includes you.
  46. I occosionally visit a nVidia driver problem thread to help, and sometimes I point out those people who claim these things about ATI drivers.
    I too have used both, and framkly, I find both good and bad, depending.
    Id remind everyone here, the greatest BSOD numbers were due to nVidia drivers on Vista, and the lack of a true DX10 driver caused lawsuits.
    So please, no excuses
  47. You have to walk on eggshells around here to express enthusiasm for the announcement of a new fastest single gpu. you have to agree that Ati has immature drivers 5 months later and their will be more performance. you have keep in mind that a out of control troll will call you stupid because everyone is supposed to know she hates Nvidia and has the right to attack people. Thats what I see going on here.
  48. RealityRush said:
    ATI has worse drivers. nvidia has a bad one now and then, but ATI just seems to consistently release products with crap drivers and then forces their customers to wait months for the hotfix drivers.

    I agree both brands have had losers, but nVidia has had more consistent winners. Especially at the top end, that is why some people prefer them. You pay for reliability and performance with nVidia and that's usually what you get. ATI you buy because they are better value for your dollar, but they normally don't beat nVidia at performance, and usually not for very long. The past few months have been fairly unique in that regard. But ATI's win has been stunted by limited supply due to the whole TMSC incident.

    Oh, and I will repeat this again before I am slandered over and over, I buy from both companies, whoever has the better product. I have stacks of cards from nVidia and ATI to prove it, going all the way back to the Riva TNT days :P

    I keep hearing people on Tom's call everyone else a fanboi and say that ATI doesn't have driver issues anymore and I call BS. I've got plenty of evidence of people's **** going crazy on their fancy new 5800's cause of drivers, and they are now awaiting the 10.1 driver to fix it (it's still in beta).

    I'm getting sick of the ATI biased people on these forums brandishing the term "fanboy" like some kind of weapon. Ohreally, that includes you.


    That is just tripe.

    Both brands have issues, both always will. Neither is better or worse in stability and that has been the way of things for almost a decade.
  49. OK, take that staement and replace it with nVidia, and their drivers. Doesnt this deserve some kind of feedback from such a statement? Or do I as a mod have to babysit every statement, and subsequent ones?
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