Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

Ultimate cooling solution for the ultimate PC check it out!!

Last response: in Overclocking
Share
September 19, 2012 1:37:26 AM

Hello everyone, you guys helped me build a AMAZING water-cooling system for a truly quick ass PC in mid June, but i want to get something even better!

I was thinking in combining Watercooling and Oil cooling!!! the question is... is it possible???

This is my rig:

*i7 3960x
*8 DIMMs of RAM
*Asus Rampage IV Extreme X79
*Quad GTX680s (EVGA 04G-P4-3688-KR the best gtx 680s)
*Case labs Magnum STH10
*Triple 512GB Vertex 4 SSDs
*Dual Seasonic X860

EVERYTHING is watercooled (even RAM and Motherboard) by two 560mm rads and a 480mm rad equipped with Bitfenix spectre pro red led fans

I just want to upgrade my cooling system, i am not a hardcore gamer or anything like that, i just want an amazingly good looking PC.

I wanted to get to get this:

*EVGA Super nova
*EXTREMELY HIGH CFM fans 4x http://www.frozencpu.com/products/8147/fan-500/Delta_Me... and 8x http://www.frozencpu.com/products/14514/fan-947/Prolima...

*a fan controller capable of powering those fans
*a good aquarium for the PC?


ok, lets begin!

*I do not have my system with me.
*Money is not a problem.
*I am stuck in Germany with my pregnant wife and i CAN NOT go back to the US until the baby is born so time is not an issue.
*I have moderate modding skills.
*Aesthetics are the most important thing.
*i know that fans with high CFM = noise.... will oil cooling be enough to keep them quiet?
*i will like to order the main parts ASAP and have them shipped to my house in US but i want to build or buy the box (aquarium, maybe?) that will hold my stuff here.
*can i break/disable the red leds on the 140mm fans? i only want my red led cord to shine on my system.
*any part recommendation is GREATLY appreciated


PS: To all gamers out there, i am sorry i bought that system, it should only be used by TRUE gamers, not me :lol: 
a c 190 K Overclocking
September 19, 2012 2:08:59 AM

First off, no oil, end of discussion.
If you want better cooling there its a water chiiler or a peltier modded onto a block, check out Ryans :'sub-ambient cooling' sticky up top for some good guidance and a few pitfalls to try and avoid :-)
Sorry for short answer mate, on the phone at work
Moto
September 19, 2012 2:20:50 AM

Motopsychojdn said:
First off, no oil, end of discussion.
If you want better cooling there its a water chiiler or a peltier modded onto a block, check out Ryans :'sub-ambient cooling' sticky up top for some good guidance and a few pitfalls to try and avoid :-)
Sorry for short answer mate, on the phone at work
Moto


but me wantz oil :( 

TBH i don't really care about temps, i want something to look good and ryan's build is...well, ugly :(  my cooling system is more than enough for my system but STH10 is kinda ugly....
Related resources
September 19, 2012 3:31:30 AM

come on guys!!! help me out
a c 149 K Overclocking
September 19, 2012 4:18:47 AM

Did you read the sticky?

September 19, 2012 4:21:43 AM

amuffin said:
Did you read the sticky?


yeah, a while ago... i know how to setup a WC system, i am not worried about that :lol: 
a b K Overclocking
September 19, 2012 5:32:47 AM

idroid said:
yeah, a while ago... i know how to setup a WC system, i am not worried about that :lol: 


Then list the components you intend to purchase and your rationale for picking those componenents (due to reviews etc?) and people will chime in to tell you whats good and whats not.
September 19, 2012 5:39:09 AM

jacknhut said:
Then list the components you intend to purchase and your rationale for picking those componenents (due to reviews etc?) and people will chime in to tell you whats good and whats not.


i am not a noob, i know whats good and bad, i am just asking for input.. i mean, i am going to combine two extreme cooling solutions (watercooling and oil cooling) and i just want to know if there is anything i should be worried about.
September 19, 2012 6:08:10 AM

First off, let me say I've never watercooled a pc, but before you dismiss anything I say. From a strictly engineering point of view, there's a very good reason why water cooling is more common than oil cooling. Water has a far higher heat transfer coefficient. It can be upto 3 times that of oil, depending on the oil. Apart from that, water and oil don't mix, so you'll be running 2 separate systems on the same rig. Also oil, being af a heavier viscosity will require a heavier pumping system as well as bigger diameter piping, radiators ect. So I got to ask, is it really worth it?
a c 190 K Overclocking
September 19, 2012 6:12:55 AM

Theres a section in the sticky regarding oil, and several threads we've all answered in as to why its bad,
I suggested the Peltier system as an alternative functionwise, making it pretty is your job hehe, I know ryans rig is a little all over the place but its a constantly changing set up, he doesn't need my Ocd cable advice :) 
bottom line is that oil is crap at cooling so stick to water though
^And a little black duck has the engineering background to prove it :p 
**Edit to post links,
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/276288-11-mineral-l... is the section,
and http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/276602-11-water-coo... is my personal favourite, the guy just wouldn't quit lol
Thanks Duck
Moto
September 19, 2012 6:16:39 AM

a little black duck said:
First off, let me say I've never watercooled a pc, but before you dismiss anything I say. From a strictly engineering point of view, there's a very good reason why water cooling is more common than oil cooling. Water has a far higher heat transfer coefficient. It can be upto 3 times that of oil, depending on the oil. Apart from that, water and oil don't mix, so you'll be running 2 separate systems on the same rig. Also oil, being af a heavier viscosity will require a heavier pumping system as well as bigger diameter piping, radiators ect. So I got to ask, is it really worth it?


OMG no no no no no.... i am so sorry i didn't specify that.

i want to do something like this:



the only difference is that instead of using standard air cooling i will use watercooling, the water and oil WILL NEVER meet at any point.


let me put it this way: i want to take my already watercooled PC and put it inside of an aquarium filled with oil.
a c 149 K Overclocking
September 19, 2012 6:17:59 AM

That really doesn't make sense....

Then what's the point of the fans?
September 19, 2012 6:19:22 AM

Motopsychojdn said:
Theres a section in the sticky regarding oil, and several threads we've all answered in as to why its bad,
I suggested the Peltier system as an alternative functionwise, making it pretty is your job hehe, I know ryans rig is a little all over the place but its a constantly changing set up, he doesn't need my Ocd cable advice :) 
bottom line is that oil is crap at cooling so stick to water though
^And a little black duck has the engineering background to prove it :p 
**Edit to post links,
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/276288-11-mineral-l... is the section,
and http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/276602-11-water-coo... is my personal favourite, the guy just wouldn't quit lol
Thanks Duck
Moto


i will use watercooling, i know that for sure but i am asking if i can take my already watercooled PC and place inside of an aquarium filled with oil.
September 19, 2012 6:20:32 AM

amuffin said:
That really doesn't make sense....

Then what's the point of the fans?


because oil will force my fans to work harder, right?
a c 149 K Overclocking
September 19, 2012 6:22:25 AM

But, that's kind of pointless though.

Watercooling a rig, then putting it oil.
a c 190 K Overclocking
September 19, 2012 6:24:44 AM

Plus if any oil gets into the waterloop its going to be a very bad day in Droidland, oil permeates anything it can with a vengeance
also, The water will cool the Cpu/Gpu's, what is going to be cooling the oil?
Moto
September 19, 2012 6:25:37 AM

amuffin said:
But, that's kind of pointless though.

Watercooling a rig, then putting it oil.


Well, i doing it for two reasons: Aesthetics and noise.

I suppose that the oil will keep the fans quiet and the aquarium + decoration will make it look cool, right?
a c 190 K Overclocking
September 19, 2012 6:28:35 AM

Just noticed as well, that pic you linked has a rad at the back with fans on, so you are going to hear those at least,
Moto
September 19, 2012 6:30:28 AM

Motopsychojdn said:
Plus if any oil gets into the waterloop its going to be a very bad day in Droidland, oil permeates anything it can with a vengeance
also, The water will cool the Cpu/Gpu's, what is going to be cooling the oil?
Moto



I have high quality compression fittings so filtration shouldn't be a problem

the oil... well, its not supposed to get hot because my watercooling system should be able to disipate about 2700w of heat (dual 560s and single 480) specially with the new high CFM fans i will purchase.... anyways, my room temp is about 17°C
September 19, 2012 6:36:23 AM

Motopsychojdn said:
Just noticed as well, that pic you linked has a rad at the back with fans on, so you are going to hear those at least,
Moto


i am thinking in placing the rads under the little rocks (which are gonna be red btw) and if not i will simply place it on a side of the aquarium.... i might have to mod it a bit but for the first time in a long time i have a lot of time to spare :lol: 
a c 190 K Overclocking
September 19, 2012 6:37:16 AM

The oil will get hot because its in direct contact with the motherboard and other heat-producing parts,
so you are thinking/hoping that the cool water passing through tubing in the oil will take out that heat and take it to the rads?
I'm pretty sure the heat transference properties of W/c tubing isn't all that good
I see problems if you do go down this route man, and it'd be a shame to toast that Pc,
Good luck if you do do it, but I seriously advise against it man :) 
**Edit**
And if you put the rad under the gravel inside the aquarium, the heat will just go back into the oil, again, not good, mount the W/c rad outside if you want it to do its job :p 
Moto
September 19, 2012 6:43:01 AM

Motopsychojdn said:
The oil will get hot because its in direct contact with the motherboard and other heat-producing parts,
so you are thinking/hoping that the cool water passing through tubing in the oil will take out that heat and take it to the rads?
I'm pretty sure the heat transference properties of W/c tubing isn't all that good
I see problems if you do go down this route man, and it'd be a shame to toast that Pc,
Good luck if you do do it, but I seriously advise against it man :) 
**Edit**
And if you put the rad under the gravel inside the aquarium, the heat will just go back into the oil, again, not good, mount the W/c rad outside if you want it to do its job :p 
Moto


But the motherboard and ram are watercooled too :( 

the thing i don't understand is that what cools the oil in most oil submerged PCs? anyways, it shouldn't get very hot, right? and even if it does... wouldn't my WC system be way more than enough to dissipate that heat from the crucial parts??

i atleast want to try to do this... and if i fried it.. well, that means i will have to re-order everything again and keep my water-cooling system only :lol: 
a c 190 K Overclocking
September 19, 2012 6:51:33 AM

Every part of the mobo produces some heat, the powerphases, the capacitors, every trace has power running through it which creates heat,
Your W/c loop will handle the heat from parts blocked if the rad is mounted externally yes,
by the looks of that Puget pic, they pump the oil through the rad which has fans to cool it in the normal fashion, thats harsh on a pump due to viscosity issues,
I know money isn't an issue for you, and I admire the spirit you show to exploring cooling but I'd hate to see good money wasted on a bad idea
Moto
September 19, 2012 7:05:17 AM

Motopsychojdn said:
Every part of the mobo produces some heat, the powerphases, the capacitors, every trace has power running through it which creates heat,
Your W/c loop will handle the heat from parts blocked if the rad is mounted externally yes,
by the looks of that Puget pic, they pump the oil through the rad which has fans to cool it in the normal fashion, thats harsh on a pump due to viscosity issues,
I know money isn't an issue for you, and I admire the spirit you show to exploring cooling but I'd hate to see good money wasted on a bad idea
Moto


can i use a small 240mm THICK radiator with some high RPM dives a pump like this one: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/14961/ex-pmp-173/Swif... and place them inside of a small box with sound suppressing material and make two little holes to route two tubes from the aquarium to the 240mm radiator too keep the oil cool?

Edit: even if i fry it... it wont be a total waste of money because i will keep the knowledge :) 
a c 190 K Overclocking
September 19, 2012 7:20:15 AM

the rad has to be open to the air to effectively remove the heat form the water running through it,
but yes, rad outside and tubing into the oil shouldn't pose any problems as long as your connections are solid, I'd use sealant on the barb part of the fittings and make damn sure the collar was tight :) 
got to go sleep now mate, nightshifts :) 
I'll check in later though
Moto
a b K Overclocking
September 19, 2012 8:22:27 AM

Is it just me or that watercooled rig submerged in a big glass tank of oil looks like a mess and ugly as well? There are lots of custom made watercooling rig that looks stunning (requires lots of moddings/custom paint jobs and decorations etc if you search the net) and all of them look a lot better than that computer submerged in oil in a fish tank.
a c 324 K Overclocking
September 19, 2012 3:11:03 PM

Sounds like you should just go do it...I don't think you're going to get a lot of support here for oil cooling. There is always a 'but I think I want to do this...' response.

Do it and report back. Sorry, not something I'd ever consider doing. Too messy, very little benefit, too messy, oil is not a good coolant, too messy, how are you going to cool the oil, too messy, why do you want to do this?
September 19, 2012 6:06:05 PM

rubix_1011 said:
Sounds like you should just go do it...I don't think you're going to get a lot of support here for oil cooling. There is always a 'but I think I want to do this...' response.

Do it and report back. Sorry, not something I'd ever consider doing. Too messy, very little benefit, too messy, oil is not a good coolant, too messy, how are you going to cool the oil, too messy, why do you want to do this?


The main reason i want to this is because i want my PC to produce 0dBa and because i think it will extreme cool if i do it right :D 
a c 324 K Overclocking
September 19, 2012 8:30:50 PM

Not possible, you still need to pump the oil to a heat exchanger somehow to dissipate the heat absorbed by the oil. I get the impression that you don't feel any components will be producing heat outside of what precisely are being cooled by watercooling...every circuit, every piece of metal in the entire PC that carries electrical current will produce heat, and that heat will need to be removed. Oil submersion that isn't circulated with a way to dissipate heat will not work as a passive submersion coolant.

What about your current watercooling config makes you think it's too loud?

Extreme cool? Doubtful, in the thermal sense, but it might be cool aesthetically to your buddies who don't know any better.
September 19, 2012 8:50:22 PM

rubix_1011 said:
Not possible, you still need to pump the oil to a heat exchanger somehow to dissipate the heat absorbed by the oil. I get the impression that you don't feel any components will be producing heat outside of what precisely are being cooled by watercooling...every circuit, every piece of metal in the entire PC that carries electrical current will produce heat, and that heat will need to be removed. Oil submersion that isn't circulated with a way to dissipate heat will not work as a passive submersion coolant.

What about your current watercooling config makes you think it's too loud?

Extreme cool? Doubtful, in the thermal sense, but it might be cool aesthetically to your buddies who don't know any better.



Hmmm.... but what would happen if let the oil "stuck" there without circulating? i doubt its gonna get hot enough to actually blow something inside my PC... anyways, i rarely use it... i don't game more than 4 hours a week (maybe 6 MAX) and the rest of the time the PC is OFF or downloading something


My current watercooling config (which it was YOU the one who helped me pick the parts) is extremely good, my temps are very low... i mean the DeltaT extremely low.... it looks good and its not very loud but i want to do something crazy with that PC and oil submersion seems like the perfect thing to do because it will look extremely cool (my wife is home designer so she will help me with the decoration)

And FYI.... my buddies are not the kinda of guys that will appreciate a PC.... we usually just hang out at my house drinking beer and watch TV :lol:  i am doing this for me :sol: 
a b K Overclocking
September 19, 2012 8:57:38 PM

Hmm, that picture of that aquarium got me thinking. Although I have no experience in water or oil cooling, I was thinking that you could cool the oil and provide some moderate flow by adding air jets to the bottom of the tank that could filter cooled air up through the oil. I would think that could cool both the oil and any components that aren't touched by the water cooling.

Also, oil will not dissipate heat as well as water but doesn't the higher viscosity oil mean that it will also heat slower?

Also, I remember back in the day larger fish tanks had those large plastic light attachments that sat on top of the tank, maybe you could incorporate all the rads and stuff into a shell of one of those to make it look more natural?
a c 190 K Overclocking
September 19, 2012 11:28:18 PM

Ok, so now we're adding air cooling to the mix...
Oil heats slower yes, which means the heat from components is building up instead of be taken away,
If somehow the air bubbles do pick up heat from the oil, how then are we cooling/dissipating that heat from the air?
Check the links I posted for more info on oil cooled rigs, we have already posted it to death but it keeps coming back like an annoyingly feeble zombie :-)
Moto
September 20, 2012 1:56:11 AM

Motopsychojdn said:
Ok, so now we're adding air cooling to the mix...
Oil heats slower yes, which means the heat from components is building up instead of be taken away,
If somehow the air bubbles do pick up heat from the oil, how then are we cooling/dissipating that heat from the air?
Check the links I posted for more info on oil cooled rigs, we have already posted it to death but it keeps coming back like an annoyingly feeble zombie :-)
Moto


Ok so.... it means that it will be OK to use my PC for a short period of time without cooling the oil, right?? i am guessing 5 hours, maybe??
September 20, 2012 3:01:23 AM

Don't take this in a jerk way, but it seems like you just have money burning a hole in your pocket. If your fans are loud, get quieter ones (perhaps noctuas?) Instead of make a redundant machine, get more monitors! If you have to spend some dough, go for 3 or 5 monitors or something! Or save that money and buy that Aventador in your sig :p 
September 20, 2012 3:30:51 AM

ArcticWonder said:
Don't take this in a jerk way, but it seems like you just have money burning a hole in your pocket. If your fans are loud, get quieter ones (perhaps noctuas?) Instead of make a redundant machine, get more monitors! If you have to spend some dough, go for 3 or 5 monitors or something! Or save that money and buy that Aventador in your sig :p 


My fans aren't very loud, its the aesthetics of my PC that i think can be improved and at the same time produce less noise while increasing performance (because of the oil)

Three monitors are enough... i do most of my TRUE work (different types of business) on my mac (i know, an ultrabook is better but i need a Mac because it says "Status" and thats important in my line of work)

and don't take this in a cocky way (i didn't take your statement in a jerky way) but i have 16 Lamborghinis but ONLY THREE ARE mine, my grand father started collecting them back in days of the Countach and my father followed and so did i and so will my kids :D 
a c 324 K Overclocking
September 20, 2012 3:35:19 AM

Still don't think that oil submersion is going to net you anything more than looking interesting.
September 20, 2012 3:36:38 AM

Guuuys come on!!! you're supposed be enthusiasts!! where is your enthusiasm??? instead of telling me that i shouldn't do this tell me how to get it done right
September 20, 2012 3:37:32 AM

rubix_1011 said:
Still don't think that oil submersion is going to net you anything more than looking interesting.


but that's the point :(  i want my pc to look good
a c 324 K Overclocking
September 20, 2012 3:38:02 AM

Looking cool by dunking a PC in oil isn't going to net you any cooling performance. You'll want to look into other cooling ideas like phase change or chilled liquid.

That's something we can talk about.
September 20, 2012 3:39:56 AM

rubix_1011 said:
Looking cool by dunking a PC in oil isn't going to net you any cooling performance. You'll want to look into other cooling ideas like phase change or chilled liquid.

That's something we can talk about.


But i am happy with the cooling performance i have, i just care about aesthetics and oil submersion will give me that and it cause a side effect (lower noise)
a c 324 K Overclocking
September 20, 2012 3:41:11 AM

I personally don't think a rig in a fish tank is a very cool idea...but that's just my opinion. After the first time you see it, it doesn't really come off as being anything other than a snow globe that plays PC games at the expense of a thermal isolation envelope and mess. Plus, you can't really do much with the components once you un-submerge them...and mineral oil breaks down thermal interface materials.

I'm not trying to stop you, but you did ask for advice on the subject- which we're all trying to give. If you still want to do it, go for it.
a c 149 K Overclocking
September 20, 2012 3:41:28 AM

idroid said:
But i am happy with the cooling performance i have, i just care about aesthetics and oil submersion will give me that and it cause a side effect (lower noise)

If you want lower noise, get better fans!
a c 190 K Overclocking
September 20, 2012 3:41:33 AM

I refer those present to my first response :-)
Moto
a c 324 K Overclocking
September 20, 2012 3:44:22 AM

The Puget link is usually what causes the ruckus in the first place and is linked in the oil submersion link as part of the sticky.
September 20, 2012 3:47:03 AM

rubix_1011 said:
I personally don't think a rig in a fish tank is a very cool idea...but that's just my opinion. After the first time you see it, it doesn't really come off as being anything other than a snow globe that plays PC games at the expense of a thermal isolation envelope and mess. Plus, you can't really do much with the components once you un-submerge them...and mineral oil breaks down thermal interface materials.

I'm not trying to stop you, but you did ask for advice on the subject- which we're all trying to give. If you still want to do it, go for it.


ok ok ok.... i will consider NOT doing it, anyways... i will REALLY appreciate if you can link me a case like the STH10 but that doesn't look so ugly
September 20, 2012 3:48:54 AM

For better cooling you would need to invest 1000-2000$ in thermal electric or phase-change sub zero coolers.
September 20, 2012 3:49:10 AM

rubix_1011 said:
The Puget link is usually what causes the ruckus in the first place and is linked in the oil submersion link as part of the sticky.

Appologies, I didn't read the sticky as I'm not that concerned with water or oil cooling, air works just fine for me. However, that doesn't mean that I'm totally uninterested in it. But this thread seems to going round in circles and I'm just trying to help resolve OPs' query. All are advising against it, but OP seems determined to do it, he just wants help on how.
a c 324 K Overclocking
September 20, 2012 3:49:21 AM

Mountain Mods would be my choice if I were buying a high-end case.

Quote:
Appologies, I didn't read the sticky as I'm not that concerned with water or oil cooling, air works just fine for me. However, that doesn't mean that I'm totally uninterested in it. But this thread seems to going round in circles and I'm just trying to help resolve OPs' query. All are advising against it, but OP seems determined to do it, he just wants help on how.


Understood, but there are also a lot of downsides to oil submersion that are being ignored. I think he has the general idea to do it if he wishes, but in just about any oil submersion thread I've ever read (if not all) there are issues of huge messes, temperature problems, what to do with used hardware, and how to effectively cool the heated oil.
September 20, 2012 3:52:22 AM

rubix_1011 said:
Mountain Mods would be my choice if I were buying a high-end case.


Wooow... there are a lot of cases there.... do you know which one supports dual 560mm rads and a 480mm rad without looking bad?
!