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My experience with Radeon 5850 vs. GTX 285

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  • Gtx
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Last response: in Graphics Cards
January 21, 2010 11:22:18 PM

Recently, I purchased a Radeon 5850 which I ended up returning. After that I purchased a GTX 285, which I installed yesterday, and it's working great!

Here are the differences I experienced between the two video cards:

Radeon 5850 - Gave boot load error problems that couldn't be fixed even after updating bios and updating chipset drivers. Would constantly boot me out of WinXP until I ran Driver Sweeper and reinstalled ATI drivers again (control panel add/remove program wasn't enough to uninstall my previous Nvidia drivers). Power Management options did not work, and kept doing a complete reboot of system when coming out of standby mode. Overall just a problematic video card with problems that were basically impossible to fix even after numerous calls to several different technical support departments. Found out from Asus forums that Radeon 5000 series have known problems with Asus Nforce motherboards (even ones like mine without an onboard graphics card) and there is no solution. Fan can get loud, runs somewhat hot (without overclocking).

GTX 285 - No problems at all. Only needed to install proper drivers (which is normal for any video card install). Equivalent in-game performance to Radeon 5850. Fan is quiet, runs cooler than Radeon 5850 (without overclocking). Great video card!!

Now I know why the GTX 285 cost me $75 more than the Radeon 5850. In this case, I definitely got what I paid for.

More about : experience radeon 5850 gtx 285

January 21, 2010 11:50:04 PM

Wait a sec... you paid 75 bucks more for an older video card that has no DX11 support, is slower and you are happy with it?.

Next time do yourself a favor and spend those 75$ on a motherboard that has AMD chipset and not and NVIDIA chipset (probably the source of the problem) and spare us the propaganda.
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a b U Graphics card
January 22, 2010 12:05:26 AM

Mustang, nVidia doesn't need your PR so just stop now while your ahead. I will now commence to explain why this scenario makes no sense:

1. It is common knowledge that when going from nVidia to ATI or vice versa, sometimes the old drivers just can't be removed without extreme measures. An easy way to test this would have been to install windows again on a new partition, download the drivers and see how it works. If this works then you will need to format your hard drive and reinstall windows. This happens a lot, and if someone was smart and asked for advice this would be the first step.

2. I assume since you tend to stay with conversations on these forums that you should have sufficient knowledge to see that the 5870 is a new generation on a new and troublesome process, 40nm to be exact. This means that there is a higher chance of getting a bad card that may need to be RMA'd. This will be equally, and most likely worse, with nVidia's G100 because it is still on a troublesome process with lower yields per wafer.

3. After a quick search on ASUS's forums it would seem that some people have zero issues with your exact board. There does seem to be something there, though I'm not sure if that is just coincidence. Regardless, you could have spent that $75 of a decent AMD motherboard and would have solved that problem, if it there was one, and would have made it easy for you to upgrade to a newer AM3 processor.

4. I'm guessing the card runs hot because of poor ventilation, its silent in an Antec 900 or similar from what I hear. This shouldn't be a large issue if you are well equipped, but you should have known that coming in.

5. How the hell can you say that you get "equivalent in-game performance to the 5850" when the 5850 is unstable and supposedly can't even get into windows. Sorry, but the 5850 is NOTICEABLY faster than the GTX 285, you are full of $h1t.

I've listed 5 good reasons why your supposed actions and conclusions are flawed. That said I am willing to bet you don't even have a 5850 considering how you have been arguing in the forums. If I am wrong, then I apologize in advanced, hopefully you can see where it is hard to believe that such actions were taken.
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a b U Graphics card
January 22, 2010 1:51:49 AM

I find my 5850 is quite quiet. It sounds like you had a combination of a software mess and perhaps a defective 5850 (it happens, just like it does with NVidia cards). Glad you like your setup now though.
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January 22, 2010 6:37:08 PM

DarkMantle said:
Wait a sec... you paid 75 bucks more for an older video card that has no DX11 support, is slower and you are happy with it?.

Next time do yourself a favor and spend those 75$ on a motherboard that has AMD chipset and not and NVIDIA chipset (probably the source of the problem) and spare us the propaganda.


Why on earth would I waste a perfectly good motherboard which is less than two years old, just so I can run some dumb finicky ATI video card that probably has compatibility issues anyways (ATI cards are not exactly know for their great hardware/software compatibility)? And even if I had purchased a new motherboard, what is the guarantee that the finicky Radeon 5850 would like it? It might give even more problems.

I don't care about DX11 because it will probably be a few years time before DX11 becomes the standard, and the 5850 will probably be considered a slow video card by then. The only reason I bought a Radeon 5850 in the first place was to save a few bucks, but I learned my lesson.
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a c 160 U Graphics card
January 22, 2010 6:42:49 PM

GREEN vs RED

FIGHT!

I am neutral. I have had cards from both nvidia and ATI and have had BAD experiences with both. There are hardware incompatibilities either way you go. Sounds like he had a bad card, and didn't want a repeat so went with a different card. I've done that before, once you have a bad taste in your mouth, it lingers for a while.
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January 22, 2010 6:50:36 PM

AMW1011 said:
Mustang, nVidia doesn't need your PR so just stop now while your ahead. I will now commence to explain why this scenario makes no sense:

1. It is common knowledge that when going from nVidia to ATI or vice versa, sometimes the old drivers just can't be removed without extreme measures. An easy way to test this would have been to install windows again on a new partition, download the drivers and see how it works. If this works then you will need to format your hard drive and reinstall windows. This happens a lot, and if someone was smart and asked for advice this would be the first step.

2. I assume since you tend to stay with conversations on these forums that you should have sufficient knowledge to see that the 5870 is a new generation on a new and troublesome process, 40nm to be exact. This means that there is a higher chance of getting a bad card that may need to be RMA'd. This will be equally, and most likely worse, with nVidia's G100 because it is still on a troublesome process with lower yields per wafer.

3. After a quick search on ASUS's forums it would seem that some people have zero issues with your exact board. There does seem to be something there, though I'm not sure if that is just coincidence. Regardless, you could have spent that $75 of a decent AMD motherboard and would have solved that problem, if it there was one, and would have made it easy for you to upgrade to a newer AM3 processor.

4. I'm guessing the card runs hot because of poor ventilation, its silent in an Antec 900 or similar from what I hear. This shouldn't be a large issue if you are well equipped, but you should have known that coming in.

5. How the hell can you say that you get "equivalent in-game performance to the 5850" when the 5850 is unstable and supposedly can't even get into windows. Sorry, but the 5850 is NOTICEABLY faster than the GTX 285, you are full of $h1t.

I've listed 5 good reasons why your supposed actions and conclusions are flawed. That said I am willing to bet you don't even have a 5850 considering how you have been arguing in the forums. If I am wrong, then I apologize in advanced, hopefully you can see where it is hard to believe that such actions were taken.


1. Eventually, all previous video card drivers were removed, only helped a little.

2. Yeah, I really want to spend all my time RMAing Radeon 5850 video cards just because they are buggy and have issues. If a card is that buggy, then it shouldn't be released in the first place. And apparently (according to the Asus forums) the 5850s have known issues with Nforce chipsets.

3. Well you must not be very good at searching forums then. And as far as replacing the motherboard, read the reply above I gave to "DarkMantle".

4. No, my system has good cooling. And Radeon 5850 doesn't run very hot, just hotter than the GTX 285. And it is louder than the GTX 285 also.

5. The in-game performance of the GTX 285 is absolutely equivalent to the Radeon 5850. Some games are a little faster with the GTX 285, and some are a little faster with the Radeon 5850, but in general I found them to be equivalent. I think most review websites show them being pretty close in performance also. But whatever, believe what you want.
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January 22, 2010 6:57:12 PM

Dont blame the card. It is pretty common to have issues with an ATI card on an nForce board. The problem was compatibility, not the ATI card itself.
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a c 160 U Graphics card
January 22, 2010 7:03:57 PM

2. An ATI video card having an issue with an Nvidia chipset? wow, that's really suprising :D 
3. I'd probably do the same thing honestly. I don't like replacing motherboards, it seems like a waste.
4. The gts285 has a MUCH larger cooler than the 5850 I would expect it to run cooler. It might be louder but they aren't that loud. It's perception I think.
5. That is a very accurate statement. And remember, you always have Batman. (hope you get that joke)
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a b U Graphics card
January 22, 2010 7:51:37 PM

Mustang5521 said:
Why on earth would I waste a perfectly good motherboard which is less than two years old, just so I can run some dumb finicky ATI video card that probably has compatibility issues anyways (ATI cards are not exactly know for their great hardware/software compatibility)? And even if I had purchased a new motherboard, what is the guarantee that the finicky Radeon 5850 would like it? It might give even more problems.

I don't care about DX11 because it will probably be a few years time before DX11 becomes the standard, and the 5850 will probably be considered a slow video card by then. The only reason I bought a Radeon 5850 in the first place was to save a few bucks, but I learned my lesson.


Oh that makes complete sense! Buy an inferior GPU because you don't want to buy a new motherboard that will help you upgrade your processor in the future, which it needs dearly. Nope nothing stupid about that!

That was sarcasm in case you did not catch that.

Mustang5521 said:
1. Eventually, all previous video card drivers were removed, only helped a little.

2. Yeah, I really want to spend all my time RMAing Radeon 5850 video cards just because they are buggy and have issues. If a card is that buggy, then it shouldn't be released in the first place. And apparently (according to the Asus forums) the 5850s have known issues with Nforce chipsets.

3. Well you must not be very good at searching forums then. And as far as replacing the motherboard, read the reply above I gave to "DarkMantle".

4. No, my system has good cooling. And Radeon 5850 doesn't run very hot, just hotter than the GTX 285. And it is louder than the GTX 285 also.

5. The in-game performance of the GTX 285 is absolutely equivalent to the Radeon 5850. Some games are a little faster with the GTX 285, and some are a little faster with the Radeon 5850, but in general I found them to be equivalent. I think most review websites show them being pretty close in performance also. But whatever, believe what you want.


Yeah don't RMA your card, instead pay more for a lesser card because you are lazy, your absolutely right! If a card is that buggy is shouldn't be release?! Then NEVER buy a GPU is that is less than one year old, hell never buy one period because you can ALWAYS get a DOA. Oh and guess what, the GTX 285 had a good deal of DOAs when first released even though it was on a more mature new process, you shouldn't have bought it since it never should have been released!

Oh no! The 5850 is imperceptibly louder than the GTX 285. You damn well know that you wouldn't notice the difference after a week, assuming there is one.

No, the 5850 outpaces the GTX 285 pretty well, costs less, and gives you DX11 which you SHOULD care about unless you are upgrading in a years time. The only reason you may not see a difference is because of your slow CPU. I assume you bought to future proof since an Ahtlon X2 6400+ wont show a difference between a 5770 and a 5850, therefor I assume you are planing to get a new CPU. Well when you do you will have lost a decent amount of performance in most games and have lost the ability to use DX11, congratulations.

Look if you want to be lazy, waste your money, or you just have an undying love for nVidia then keep it to yourself. This whole thread was only to confuse and trick people into not buying the superior product, the 5850. There was no reason to start a thread when you had already taken steps, the wrong steps, and had made up your mind.
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a b U Graphics card
January 22, 2010 8:05:14 PM

There is no point in arguing. If mustang is happy with the end result, that is all that really matters. Because in the end, all these cards are a waste of money if all we mainly use them for is gaming. Now if he goes bashing ATI in every other thread he posts in I'd be angry, but after an experience like this we all need a way to vent a little frustration.
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a b U Graphics card
January 22, 2010 9:00:13 PM

Sorry EXT64, he has done it a few times. Besides I could care less if he bought a Quadro FX 5200 for gaming, I just wanted to clear up things so people don't think what he did was reasonable and copy him.
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January 22, 2010 10:40:44 PM

AMW1011 said:
Sorry EXT64, he has done it a few times. Besides I could care less if he bought a Quadro FX 5200 for gaming, I just wanted to clear up things so people don't think what he did was reasonable and copy him.


Oh yeah, the "reasonable" thing to do it to pull apart my entire system, install a new motherboard, and then hope that the Radeon 5850 works well with it. Pffffttt......real smart there. :sarcastic: 

I think I'll just keep my more compatible (with hardware and software) and equally fast GTX 285 (with the additional PhysX feature), thank you very much.

Oh and another thing, with the Radeon 5850, suddenly my MagicTune Premium software (that came with my Samsung monitor) stopped working because the video card was "unsupported". Gotta love ATI and their fantastic compatibility. :sarcastic: 
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a b U Graphics card
January 22, 2010 10:59:33 PM

Mustang5521 said:
Oh yeah, the "reasonable" thing to do it to pull apart my entire system, install a new motherboard, and then hope that the Radeon 5850 works well with it. Pffffttt......real smart there. :sarcastic: 

I think I'll just keep my more compatible (with hardware and software) and equally fast GTX 285 (with the additional PhysX feature), thank you very much.

Oh and another thing, with the Radeon 5850, suddenly my MagicTune Premium software (that came with my Samsung monitor) stopped working because the video card was "unsupported". Gotta love ATI and their fantastic compatibility. :sarcastic: 


It would only take 5 minutes to research compatibility, and besides your supposed case was a rarity. The GTX 285 is not equally fast, unless you mean in your system then so is the 5770 for $200+ cheaper... PhysX is dead, but love that feature all you want, I don't even use it since the slight performance hit isn't worth almost no additional visuals even in batman. Oh NOs!!!! A new card generation doesn't support EVERYTHING?! Besides you would do better with a third party app. Oh and there is nothing wrong with ATI compatibility. nVidia is just as bad. (Blasphemy I know! How dare I contradict the gospel!?)

Sorry, you can't defend your actions like this. If you said, "I decided it was worth it FOR ME to pay extra for less performance and get an older card instead of troubleshoot an issue", then that would be fine. This nVidia gospel isn't.
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a c 376 U Graphics card
January 22, 2010 11:13:36 PM

Mustang5521 said:
4. No, my system has good cooling. And Radeon 5850 doesn't run very hot, just hotter than the GTX 285. And it is louder than the GTX 285 also.

How hot the sensors for the processor are reading is mostly irrelevant as to how much heat your card is giving off. The HD5850 uses MUCH less power and generates much less heat. Power usage and the coolers ability to remove heat from the case are what matter in terms of practical effect on your system's overall temp.
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a b U Graphics card
January 23, 2010 4:05:40 AM

Point taken and agreed. This is unfortunately how bad reputation rumors start and somehow gain more traction than fact.
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a b U Graphics card
January 23, 2010 4:35:24 AM

jyjjy said:
How hot the sensors for the processor are reading is mostly irrelevant as to how much heat your card is giving off. The HD5850 uses MUCH less power and generates much less heat. Power usage and the coolers ability to remove heat from the case are what matter in terms of practical effect on your system's overall temp.


Exactly. The GTX285 gives off far more heat the the 5850. The GTX285 just has its fans spinning faster so the card itself reads lower temperatures, but the GTX285 still gives off way more heat into the case.


Mustang5521 said:
Oh yeah, the "reasonable" thing to do it to pull apart my entire system, install a new motherboard, and then hope that the Radeon 5850 works well with it. Pffffttt......real smart there. :sarcastic: 

I think I'll just keep my more compatible (with hardware and software) and equally fast GTX 285 (with the additional PhysX feature), thank you very much.

Oh and another thing, with the Radeon 5850, suddenly my MagicTune Premium software (that came with my Samsung monitor) stopped working because the video card was "unsupported". Gotta love ATI and their fantastic compatibility. :sarcastic: 


The 5850 came out like 2 months ago. The GTX285 came out years ago. Your comparison is way off. When the GTX285 first came out, it had loads of problems.

The 5850 has been shown to be faster than the GTX285 is the vast majority of situations. The 5850's support for DX11, eyefinity, lower cost, lower power consumption, and better performance far trump the GTX285's physX support.


Like virtually everyone here have said, giving up your 5850 and buying a more expensive GTX285 is a complete waste of money.
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January 23, 2010 8:26:13 AM

For anyone who doubts that the Radeon 5850 (and probably the rest of the 5000 series) is problematic, the following thread is just one example: LINK
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January 23, 2010 8:30:56 AM

Bluescreendeath said:
The 5850's support for DX11, eyefinity, lower cost, lower power consumption, and better performance


Those things don't help the fact that it's a buggy P.O.S.
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a b U Graphics card
January 23, 2010 11:39:42 AM

Comeon people, He had a bad experience with a card doesnot means he don't know anything.

'mustang5521'

I would agree with you, bad things happens, and happens alot.

This is a new card, and new cards always have some kind of problems.

In my opinion, you should have waited some time before giving away $75.

AnyWays,
Good Luck for the future
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a b U Graphics card
January 23, 2010 12:31:26 PM

A bad experience doesnt explain low fps, where the 5850 is clearly superior.
Its common to have install problems due to old driver "left overs" when switching from 1 company to the other.
Spending more money before seeking answers shows the OP was mad, and who here has always made the best decisions when mad?
Claiming the card is louder and hotter also goes against everything everyone knows about these 2 cards. The 5850 is cooler and quieter.

@OP, if youre happy, good, but next time, Id suggest you ask around Toms a bit more for answers, as youve gone backwards in features and perf, while spending more money to do so

PS Stay away from nVidias latest driver, it wont let you oc your card til the hotfix comes out, if you intend to oc
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a b U Graphics card
January 23, 2010 10:27:56 PM

Mustang5521 said:
For anyone who doubts that the Radeon 5850 (and probably the rest of the 5000 series) is problematic, the following thread is just one example: LINK


I can cherry pick links too:

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies-archive.cf...

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/265764-33-problem

http://www.vistax64.com/graphic-cards/214127-problem-gt...


Mustang5521 said:
Those things don't help the fact that it's a buggy P.O.S.


http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

The sapphire 5850 has an 89% 5/5 or 4/5 on Newegg. That means that basically 90% of the people who bothered to leave a review had a positive experience. And we all know that people who have had a bad experience tend to leave feedback more often than those with good experiences.

What does this mean? You either got a bad card, or you don't have the software installed correctly.
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January 23, 2010 11:07:00 PM

Ok I get it. There are a lot of ATI video card owners on this message board who don't like it when someone insults ATI. Many people like rooting for the underdog, in this case being ATI. I would venture to guess that many ATI owners purchase their video card based on the fact that they don't like the bigger more popular company that is dominating the video card market (i.e. Nvidia). And they also purchase ATI brand because the video cards are lower priced and fit their budget better for price/performance. However, all of this doesn't change these facts:

* Nvidia is better supported by game developers - obviously game developers are going to work harder for Nvidia compatibility since Nvidia cards are in a far higher percentage of the PCs out there compared to ATI. Many game developers also optimize their games better for Nvidia cards.

* Nvidia has better compatibility - again most hardware manufacturers are going to focus more on compatibility with the dominant video card company (i.e. Nvidia).

* Nvidia usually has better drivers - don't exactly know why this is the case, but it is.

All of these factors play a big role in why Nvidia video cards cost significantly more that ATI video cards. Because Nvidia can demand a higher price for their video cards and get it. ATI can't demand as high a price, otherwise their sales would probably plummet (again because of the facts listed above).

Now ATI owners/fans on here can argue until they are blue in the face that ATI is equivalent or superior to Nvidia, but in reality this is simply not the case. Just like happy Kia owners can argue until they are blue in the face that Kia is equivalent or superior to Honda, but again this is simply not the case.

Again, argue as much as you like about this, but there are valid reasons why the general consensus out there is that Nvidia cards are generally less troublesome than ATI cards.

I think I am less biased when it comes to these things. For example, I know Intel CPUs are better than AMD CPUs, but I still have an AMD CPU because at the time I didn't want to spend extra for an Intel CPU. My AMD works great, but next time I am going to buy Intel brand. You might ask why? Because I know that Intel CPUs are simply better. There is nothing wrong with AMD though.
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a c 332 U Graphics card
January 23, 2010 11:44:13 PM

EXT64 said:
Point taken and agreed. This is unfortunately how bad reputation rumors start and somehow gain more traction than fact.

It seems enough people are making noises about Ati's drivers that someone has taken a bit of notice.
http://www.techeye.net/chips/amd-punter-has-problems-catalysing-things
JAYDEEJOHN said:
PS Stay away from nVidias latest driver, it wont let you oc your card til the hotfix comes out, if you intend to oc


The MSI utility still works (at least I think it's that one) so they are not all broken. :kaola: 
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January 23, 2010 11:47:18 PM

Ok mustang, frankly, I would trade my GTX 295 for a 5870 anyday. Why? Because the 5870 has dx 11, which already has 2 titles and many upcoming ones (best imo Alien vs Predator), can keep up with my GTX 295 with only 1 GPU, and is cooler and quieter. So a 5850 is an even better choice to you since it is much faster than a GTX 285, and has the same pluses as i listed above.

Oh yeah and at the time (if that was the Prescott time) AMD cpus were better. And here you are saying Intel cpus are better just b/c they are Intel. You are a smart one.

Good job wasting money!
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a b U Graphics card
January 23, 2010 11:50:07 PM

Mustang, you listed three totally unproven and baseless points to support your bias.

We are not biased, you are.

People buy ATI because, usually when they do, ATI has the superior product for their needs. This isn't an AMD vs Intel debate, ATI is beating nVidia in performance in almost every segment of the market. ATI also has a MUCH larger market share than AMD, and will likely become pretty close to being on-par with nVidia's market share considering the time its taking for nVidia to compete.

I don't hate nVidia, I don't prefer ATI. I am totally impartial, and that allows me to see and root out biased people like yourself.

If you don't believe me look at my sig, hell I'll list all the cards I've ever had:

nVidia FX 5200
Geforce 6600 GT
ATI X850 XT, after 6600 GT dies in < 6 months, got it for a good price
7600 GT, my favorite card of all time, it was a serious performer for very little money
8800 GT, yeah my 7600 GT lasted a good while
2x 8800 GTS 512mb, sold the GT and got 2 8800 GTS 512mb for the coolers

Hmm, yep I'm an ATI fanboy...

Ok here we go:

1. nVidia has better dev. support now because of the G80 success. Devs. will start to support ATI more now that the 5xxx series' success. nVidia isn't the dominate video card company, they are in a fierce and usually pretty close competition, 8800 series' success and the FX 5000 series failure aside.

2. nVidia does NOT have better compatibility, if anything it is the other way around. More motherboards support crossfire than they do SLI by a huge margin. Just because some very old nforce board has problems with newer ATI cards, does not mean EVERY board will.

3. You don't know why that is because it is FALSE. Back 3 years ago ATI had the superior scaling and back 4 years ago nVidia did. Now, they are both very much on-par which is very nice. I admit that nVidia tends to have better release day drivers, but ATI supports their older cards better, SLI no longer scales in Oblivion worth sh*t for example.

All of these lies play a big role in why you are a delusional fanboy.

There is no such general consensus like you speak of. Look at this thread, look all over these and other boards. Mustang, the general consensus, and rightfully so, is that YOU ARE WRONG. That is the general consensus.

Look here:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/200811120358...

nVidia has a 65% market share as of a week ago, that is not "dominating" the market, it is a lead built off of 2 years ago when ATI couldn't compete. Now in a single quarter nVidia is expected to lose at least 5% market share.

now lets consider the mobile market real quick. ATI has the first DX11 cards that give extreme performance for very little power. It takes nVidia a dual card setup that requires 150w to even slightly beat the mobile 5870 that only requires 60w, that is less than half. Now consider that the mobile 5870 is far cheaper and you can see that trend clearly.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/ATI-Mobility-Radeon-HD-587...
It doesn't stop there, nVidia's mobile cards are all based on the G92 architecture because the G200 is just too large and consumes too much energy. The only other option is the GT 240m which uses the very scaled down GT216 architecture that can't even compete with the lowest 5xxx series mobile series. Noe since the Fermi architecture is twice as big and is not supposed to scale down very low, I don't think we will see much in the way of nVidia mobile market this year.

I'm not seeing any domination here from nVidia, only ATI catching up quick. This is good for us all since this will inspire innovation.


You can't argue this mustang, I even provided sources, but go ahead and try. I, like most people, enjoy being right, so go ahead and give me more reasons to tell the truth.
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a b U Graphics card
January 23, 2010 11:55:38 PM

Mustang5521 said:
Ok I get it. There are a lot of ATI video card owners on this message board who don't like it when someone insults ATI. Many people like rooting for the underdog, in this case being ATI. I would venture to guess that many ATI owners purchase their video card based on the fact that they don't like the bigger more popular company that is dominating the video card market (i.e. Nvidia). And they also purchase ATI brand because the video cards are lower priced and fit their budget better for price/performance. However, all of this doesn't change these facts:


When all else is held equal, I still prefer Nvidia - but the ATI 5850 is simply much better than a Nvidia GTX285.

We're all just stating that your actions of ditching a 5850 and paying more for a GTX285 is stupid thing to do.

It would've actually made sense if you had said you returned your 5850 for a cheaper GTX260 or GTX275, but paying more for an inferior product based on your unsupported biases and ignorance of computers is plainly foolish.
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January 24, 2010 12:14:56 AM

All you ATI fans and defenders can go ahead and keep spewing nonsensical gibberish about how the Radeon 5850 is better than the GTX 285. Meanwhile, I will enjoy playing games on my GTX 285 without the incompatibility issues and bad drivers of the Radeon 5850. At the end of the day, Nvidia is still dominating the graphics card market just like they have always been, and this is unlikely to change. My goal was to be able to play games smoothly without any issues, and only Nvidia can deliver that consistently. On the other hand, ATI delivers migraine headaches consistently. You ATI fans and defenders can believe what you like and be in denial about ATI all you want. I am done with this thread.

Have fun everyone :) 
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a b U Graphics card
January 24, 2010 12:23:01 AM

Honestly, this is a grade-A case of why I hate most people. When presented with facts, and the wisdom of the majority they ignore it all and say "NA-AH YOUR WRONG AND I'M RIGHT!" while spewing more trash that has already been proven false. And the worst part? I would have loved to let this damn thread die with no posts and Mustang being a complete idiot without me explaining why. The problem? Some idiot will come along and read his post and take it seriously. Therefor, in good conscience I must go into detail to explain why Mustang is wrong. And then I have to deal with the nonsense he writes in response. I think I may just stop caring.

Really what should have happened is that the first mod. that read this thread and saw that Mustang was just spewing biased hate for a stupid GPU company like it had murdered his family, should have deleted it.

Oh well no one is perfect, especially idiots.
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a c 332 U Graphics card
January 24, 2010 12:35:54 AM

There has been so much whining about Nvidia over the last couple of months I thought it made a nice change to see some being directed the other way.
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a c 221 U Graphics card
January 24, 2010 12:39:34 AM

bad news mustang, it wasnt the ATI card that had the compatibility issues, it was the nVidia chipset which have been known to be problematic for several years and thats why most people recommend against them. The problem you had wasnt caused by the demon ATI, it was caused by your angel nVidia.

If you can read through a review, look at the charts, and still tell yourself that the GTX285 was a better purchase something is wrong. If you wish to spout biased, unfounded opinions get off these forums, toms is based on knowledge not rumors and if you cant look at something and remain unbiased you shouldnt be here.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-5850,2433...
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a c 332 U Graphics card
January 24, 2010 12:42:17 AM

Enough with the insults and general name calling.
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a b U Graphics card
January 24, 2010 12:59:56 AM

Mousemonkey said:
There has been so much whining about Nvidia over the last couple of months I thought it made a nice change to see some being directed the other way.


I would understand if it was legitimate, but it isn't. It would be nice to see something POSITIVE about nVidia, like some good news on the mobile front or some legit benchmarks of Fermi. It is not nice to see some hateful, negative, and fully uneducated rant about ATI, because it will inevitably point someone in the wrong direction if not corrected.

If anything there has been a lot of people fighting back just because it looks like nVidia may not be doing so hot *gasp!*.

I think people need to just realize that each company has their respective ups and downs and that we are talking about graphics processor unit manufacturers, not sports teams to competing religions.

I know I'm critical about Fermi, but the last time things looked this bad it was the HD 2900 days. This is not to say that I would not buy a GTX 380 or GTX 360 if it does well at a reasonable price and provides a market segment that ATI can't match, I most certainly would.
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a b U Graphics card
January 24, 2010 1:01:09 AM

Mousemonkey said:
Enough with the insults and general name calling.


I don't see much name calling or insults MM, I thought this one ended up remarkably clean considering.
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a c 332 U Graphics card
January 24, 2010 1:08:09 AM

AMW1011 said:
I don't see much name calling or insults MM, I thought this one ended up remarkably clean considering.

I don't think calling people idiots or saying that they are dumb is particularly complimentary, do you? and if people can't voice their opinion without doing so, then they should refrain from responding to threads such as these.
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a b U Graphics card
January 24, 2010 1:30:21 AM

Well the closest thing I can see is me calling him lazy. I never said he was stupid and I can't see it being said in anyone else' post, though you may have deleted it because I think I do remember someone calling Mustang in idiot.

I don't think he is an idiot, at least no more than people in general, I just think he is extremely biased and is spreading negative rumors that could harm someone who reads this without proper knowledge. His supposed actions may be stupid, but he is not necessarily.
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a c 332 U Graphics card
January 24, 2010 1:44:02 AM

AMW1011 said:
Oh well no one is perfect, especially idiots.


Well that parting shot could have been taken personally and I edited the other post, I'm just asking that people refrain from such terminology as it just tends to escalate.
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a b U Graphics card
January 24, 2010 2:15:37 AM

Mustang5521 said:
Ok I get it. There are a lot of ATI video card owners on this message board who don't like it when someone insults ATI. Many people like rooting for the underdog, in this case being ATI. I would venture to guess that many ATI owners purchase their video card based on the fact that they don't like the bigger more popular company that is dominating the video card market (i.e. Nvidia). And they also purchase ATI brand because the video cards are lower priced and fit their budget better for price/performance. However, all of this doesn't change these facts:

* Nvidia is better supported by game developers - obviously game developers are going to work harder for Nvidia compatibility since Nvidia cards are in a far higher percentage of the PCs out there compared to ATI. Many game developers also optimize their games better for Nvidia cards.

* Nvidia has better compatibility - again most hardware manufacturers are going to focus more on compatibility with the dominant video card company (i.e. Nvidia).

* Nvidia usually has better drivers - don't exactly know why this is the case, but it is.

All of these factors play a big role in why Nvidia video cards cost significantly more that ATI video cards. Because Nvidia can demand a higher price for their video cards and get it. ATI can't demand as high a price, otherwise their sales would probably plummet (again because of the facts listed above).

Now ATI owners/fans on here can argue until they are blue in the face that ATI is equivalent or superior to Nvidia, but in reality this is simply not the case. Just like happy Kia owners can argue until they are blue in the face that Kia is equivalent or superior to Honda, but again this is simply not the case.

Again, argue as much as you like about this, but there are valid reasons why the general consensus out there is that Nvidia cards are generally less troublesome than ATI cards.

I think I am less biased when it comes to these things. For example, I know Intel CPUs are better than AMD CPUs, but I still have an AMD CPU because at the time I didn't want to spend extra for an Intel CPU. My AMD works great, but next time I am going to buy Intel brand. You might ask why? Because I know that Intel CPUs are simply better. There is nothing wrong with AMD though.


I smell a fanboy!!! :kaola: 
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a b U Graphics card
January 24, 2010 2:19:52 AM

AMW1011 said:
Mustang, you listed three totally unproven and baseless points to support your bias.

We are not biased, you are.

People buy ATI because, usually when they do, ATI has the superior product for their needs. This isn't an AMD vs Intel debate, ATI is beating nVidia in performance in almost every segment of the market. ATI also has a MUCH larger market share than AMD, and will likely become pretty close to being on-par with nVidia's market share considering the time its taking for nVidia to compete.

I don't hate nVidia, I don't prefer ATI. I am totally impartial, and that allows me to see and root out biased people like yourself.

If you don't believe me look at my sig, hell I'll list all the cards I've ever had:

nVidia FX 5200
Geforce 6600 GT
ATI X850 XT, after 6600 GT dies in < 6 months, got it for a good price
7600 GT, my favorite card of all time, it was a serious performer for very little money
8800 GT, yeah my 7600 GT lasted a good while
2x 8800 GTS 512mb, sold the GT and got 2 8800 GTS 512mb for the coolers

Hmm, yep I'm an ATI fanboy...

Ok here we go:

1. nVidia has better dev. support now because of the G80 success. Devs. will start to support ATI more now that the 5xxx series' success. nVidia isn't the dominate video card company, they are in a fierce and usually pretty close competition, 8800 series' success and the FX 5000 series failure aside.

2. nVidia does NOT have better compatibility, if anything it is the other way around. More motherboards support crossfire than they do SLI by a huge margin. Just because some very old nforce board has problems with newer ATI cards, does not mean EVERY board will.

3. You don't know why that is because it is FALSE. Back 3 years ago ATI had the superior scaling and back 4 years ago nVidia did. Now, they are both very much on-par which is very nice. I admit that nVidia tends to have better release day drivers, but ATI supports their older cards better, SLI no longer scales in Oblivion worth sh*t for example.

All of these lies play a big role in why you are a delusional fanboy.

There is no such general consensus like you speak of. Look at this thread, look all over these and other boards. Mustang, the general consensus, and rightfully so, is that YOU ARE WRONG. That is the general consensus.

Look here:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/200811120358...

nVidia has a 65% market share as of a week ago, that is not "dominating" the market, it is a lead built off of 2 years ago when ATI couldn't compete. Now in a single quarter nVidia is expected to lose at least 5% market share.

now lets consider the mobile market real quick. ATI has the first DX11 cards that give extreme performance for very little power. It takes nVidia a dual card setup that requires 150w to even slightly beat the mobile 5870 that only requires 60w, that is less than half. Now consider that the mobile 5870 is far cheaper and you can see that trend clearly.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/ATI-Mobility-Radeon-HD-587...
It doesn't stop there, nVidia's mobile cards are all based on the G92 architecture because the G200 is just too large and consumes too much energy. The only other option is the GT 240m which uses the very scaled down GT216 architecture that can't even compete with the lowest 5xxx series mobile series. Noe since the Fermi architecture is twice as big and is not supposed to scale down very low, I don't think we will see much in the way of nVidia mobile market this year.

I'm not seeing any domination here from nVidia, only ATI catching up quick. This is good for us all since this will inspire innovation.


You can't argue this mustang, I even provided sources, but go ahead and try. I, like most people, enjoy being right, so go ahead and give me more reasons to tell the truth.


Mustang, you just got chumped. The end.
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a b U Graphics card
January 24, 2010 2:46:36 AM

The GTX 285 competes with the 5850. Jans chart same as Dec and Nov



The 5850 IS NOT the 5870. It does not perform the same. Go look at all the 5850 articles when it hit the market. The 5870 became the fastest single gpu card when it was introduced, the 5850 trades blows with the gtx 285 which was the old fastest single gpu.
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January 24, 2010 2:59:44 AM

Sell your Nvidia stock while you can.
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a b U Graphics card
January 24, 2010 3:10:47 AM

notty22 said:
The GTX 285 competes with the 5850. Jans chart same as Dec and Nov
http://i482.photobucket.com/albums/rr185/notty222/gpuheirarchy.png


The 5850 IS NOT the 5870. It does not perform the same. Go look at all the 5850 articles when it hit the market. The 5870 became the fastest single gpu card when it was introduced, the 5850 trades blows with the gtx 285 which was the old fastest single gpu.


No the 5850 is 10-15% faster across the board, just go away notty we don't need more lies in this thread.
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a b U Graphics card
January 24, 2010 3:48:31 AM

AMW1011 said:
No the 5850 is 10-15% faster across the board, just go away notty we don't need more lies in this thread.


You need to actually explain it rather than just calling it lies.


notty22 said:
The GTX 285 competes with the 5850. Jans chart same as Dec and Nov
http://i482.photobucket.com/albums/rr185/notty222/gpuheirarchy.png


The 5850 IS NOT the 5870. It does not perform the same. Go look at all the 5850 articles when it hit the market. The 5870 became the fastest single gpu card when it was introduced, the 5850 trades blows with the gtx 285 which was the old fastest single gpu.


The chart only ranks something as a full tier above another if it's significantly better (ie. 40% better or more)

The 5850 is about 15% better than the GTX285, so it's not enough to warrant an entirely new tier.


You see the GTX260 and GTX275 lumped together, even though everyone knows the GTX275 is clearly better...by around 15%-20% or so.
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a c 332 U Graphics card
January 24, 2010 3:58:11 AM

Bluescreendeath said:
You need to actually explain it rather than just calling it lies.




The chart only ranks something as a full tier above another if it's significantly better (ie. 40% better or more)

The 5850 is about 15% better than the GTX285, so it's not enough to warrant an entirely new tier.


You see the GTX260 and GTX275 lumped together, even though everyone knows the GTX275 is clearly better...by around 15%-20% or so.

I would have used something like this :-
Spoiler








to try and get the point across but I don't want to be seen as a fanboy. [:mousemonkey]
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a b U Graphics card
January 24, 2010 4:04:48 AM

Yeah, MM I could have shown how easily the 5850 outpaces the GTX 285, but I'm tired. :) 
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a b U Graphics card
January 24, 2010 5:06:10 AM

Best answer selected by TheGreatGrapeApe.
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a b U Graphics card
January 24, 2010 5:52:44 AM

TheGreatGrapeApe said:
Best answer selected by TheGreatGrapeApe.

n
nlol, nice.
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a b U Graphics card
January 24, 2010 8:42:06 AM

AMW1011 said:
Yeah, MM I could have shown how easily the 5850 outpaces the GTX 285, but I'm tired. :) 

No , you should be tired from pulling your hissy fit earlier in the thread when people tell you the facts that the GTX 285 trades blows with the 5850, I can show you half the 5850 launch reviews that show it.
Grow up, with your lie ***.
Heres a article that compare the 285 to the 5870
http://www.insidehw.com/Reviews/Graphics-cards/ATI-Rade...
But of course all the ATI fanbois here , use the 5870 figures in their delusions of Grandeur for the 5 series cards when they force feed them down everyones throat.

Edit: the gtx 260,275 are together because they have NO COMPETITION from ATI.
The 5770 is slower than the 4870 the GTX 260 runs with those, yawn 2 year old tech, and the GTX 275 spanks the 4890.
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a c 126 U Graphics card
January 24, 2010 9:53:48 AM

notty22 said:
No , you should be tired from pulling your hissy fit earlier in the thread when people tell you the facts that the GTX 285 trades blows with the 5850, I can show you half the 5850 launch reviews that show it.
Grow up, with your lie ***.
Heres a article that compare the 285 to the 5870
http://www.insidehw.com/Reviews/Graphics-cards/ATI-Rade...
But of course all the ATI fanbois here , use the 5870 figures in their delusions of Grandeur for the 5 series cards when they force feed them down everyones throat.

Edit: the gtx 260,275 are together because they have NO COMPETITION from ATI.
The 5770 is slower than the 4870 the GTX 260 runs with those, yawn 2 year old tech, and the GTX 275 spanks the 4890.



A HD4870 1GB competes against the GTX260

A HD4890 competes against the GTX275

It still remains that buying a GTX285 now is silly when you could buy a cheaper HD5850 that produces less heat, uses less power and is on par with the more expensive GTX285, Hell, it might even beat the GTX285 now that the drivers have matured alittle. For some people DX11 isn't important, but equally to some people physX isn't important.

People will buy whatever card they want, its their choice. Personally I don't care what other people buy, So If a person that is less tech savvy than us comes and reads this thread and thinks "Woah GTX285 is amazing, I'm going to buy 3 right now" I don't care its up to them.....Their money, their choice at the end of the day.

I see where your coming from AMW1011, But there is always going to be nVdia and ATi fanboys, You'd be argueing your point for the rest of your life.
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a b U Graphics card
January 24, 2010 9:57:26 AM

Weve already seen Anands numbers, and frankly, Ill take their number over the site you posted.
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