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Flow Sensors

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October 2, 2012 12:14:26 PM

Hello,
I have a single loop and recently purchased a Aquaeros 5XT Controller. I am wondering if it matters where in the loop I place my flow sensor and if there is any benefit to having 2 flow sensors in a single loop? Accidentally ordered 2

More about : flow sensors

a c 328 K Overclocking
October 2, 2012 1:52:25 PM

Should only need 1, and even that's individual preference...most people don't run any.
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a b K Overclocking
October 2, 2012 4:57:27 PM

there would be no benefit for having 2...really there is no benefit for having a flow sensor in the first place besides peace of mind....if your pump fails on you you are most likely going to notice the really high temps before you look in your case and notice that the flow sensor isnt moving....just my two cents....but since you already bought it all I would just throw one in there and keep the second in a spare parts bin maybe you will find a use for it later on
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October 2, 2012 7:24:43 PM

Thanks for the replies. Reason for adding is to get the most out of the Aqueros 5XT Controller's capabilities.

Does anyone know if the flow would be the same say at the beginning of my loop (right out of the pump) or at the end of the loop (after cpu,MB,SLI GPU blocks)?
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a c 328 K Overclocking
October 3, 2012 12:51:12 AM

Flow rate should be consistent; head pressure will be lower.

Most people just set temp monitoring solutions like CoreTemp or RealTemp to trigger a shutdown at a specific temp threshold. If your pump stops, your temps will rise, which will be monitored by the software and then perform a shutdown.

If all else fails, hardware will do a hard shutdown once temps get high enough to prevent damage. Adding a flow meter is just adding more resistance into your loop.
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a b K Overclocking
October 3, 2012 3:34:10 AM

^^ agreed to everything you just said which is why I would personally not run any kind of flow meter
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a c 328 K Overclocking
October 3, 2012 2:05:05 PM

My intention was to mirror your initial response...buying shiny stuff just for the purpose of sticking extra stuff in your box doesn't always mean it's the best solution. Besides, most of that stuff is marketed towards beginners as gadgets they think they need, but really don't.
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a b K Overclocking
October 3, 2012 4:12:59 PM

yea that is def true...its amazing what people can get you to do/buy when you dont know what you are doing haha (not necessarily the case in this thread) I mean look at cars...Its amazing how much mechanics can get away with when their customers have no clue what they are talking about
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October 3, 2012 6:09:44 PM



Thought I would add a picture of what I am building.

I understand completely about flow sensor not being a needed component. I just want to get the most out of my Aquaero 5 XT controller (lol another uneeded component to be certain!)

I am currently using EK Blocks for my 2 GTX690's, R4E mobo and CPU.
Radiators are HWL Black Ice GTX 360 and a 240 with 5 Noiseblocker 2400rpm fans.
Pump is a Swiftech MCP35X2
Fittings are Monsoon
Fluid will be Ice Dragon Nanofluid (White)
Awaiting clear SLI Bridge to finish loop
Aquaero 5 XT Fan Controller

I welcome any advice, critcism, ideas on how to make the most out of my equipment
*Under construction will be sleeving the ugly wires coming out of the pump*
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a b K Overclocking
October 3, 2012 8:00:44 PM

damn man that looks pretty good...you stole my white and black theme with the corsair 800d....lol I havent built it yet but you stole it! haha...you should replace the stock corsair fans with the ones with the white blades to match
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October 4, 2012 2:11:08 PM

Quote:
damn man that looks pretty good...you stole my white and black theme with the corsair 800d....lol I havent built it yet but you stole it! haha...you should replace the stock corsair fans with the ones with the white blades to match


Thanks Drums! I am just waiting for Noiseblocker to release the 140mm eloop fan's and will be replacing the corsairs :) 
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a c 190 K Overclocking
October 5, 2012 12:54:16 AM

You have Ek Nickel blocks there?
Keep a very close eye on them, and only use the Ek approved coolants from the list,
I approve of the Res though :-)
The uv cathode in that will keep your water free of algae once you lose the premix fluids
Moto
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a c 235 K Overclocking
October 5, 2012 1:25:27 PM

tpb211 said:
http://i46.tinypic.com/2922tg5.jpg

Thought I would add a picture of what I am building.

I understand completely about flow sensor not being a needed component. I just want to get the most out of my Aquaero 5 XT controller (lol another uneeded component to be certain!)

I am currently using EK Blocks for my 2 GTX690's, R4E mobo and CPU.
Radiators are HWL Black Ice GTX 360 and a 240 with 5 Noiseblocker 2400rpm fans.
Pump is a Swiftech MCP35X2
Fittings are Monsoon
Fluid will be Ice Dragon Nanofluid (White)
Awaiting clear SLI Bridge to finish loop
Aquaero 5 XT Fan Controller

I welcome any advice, critcism, ideas on how to make the most out of my equipment
*Under construction will be sleeving the ugly wires coming out of the pump*


Quote:
I welcome any advice, critcism, ideas on how to make the most out of my equipment


I truly hope you meant that!

You're running all of that on a single loop?

Is that what you're saying?

And what you're concerned about is;

Quote:
I just want to get the most out of my Aquaero 5 XT controller (lol another uneeded component to be certain!)


Flow sensor IMO is the least of your concerns especially already running V/R and Chipset cooling to that witches brew plus running 2 GPUs added to that heat generating loop?

Do you have a clue as to the temperatures you'll be running?

I truly hope you are not overclocking anything!

Your layout might look good to some, but cooling efficiency, forget it!


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October 5, 2012 3:35:24 PM

Quote:
You're running all of that on a single loop?


Running single loop, was under the impression based on the stickies that the single loop would be more efficient as it would allow the cumulative cooling capacities of the 360 and 240 rad to all components in the loop.
If I am not understanding correctly please let me know asap before I fill the loop as it would not be difficult for me to split the rads to say 240 for cpu/mb, 360 for the pair of gtx690 gpu's or vice versa and add another pump.


Quote:
I truly hope you are not overclocking anything!


My intention is to OC the CPU

Quote:
Your layout might look good to some, but cooling efficiency, forget it!


any advice on how to make the loop more efficient?
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a c 235 K Overclocking
October 5, 2012 3:48:42 PM

tpb211 said:
Quote:
You're running all of that on a single loop?


Running single loop, was under the impression based on the stickies that the single loop would be more efficient as it would allow the cumulative cooling capacities of the 360 and 240 rad to all components in the loop.
If I am not understanding correctly please let me know asap before I fill the loop as it would not be difficult for me to split the rads to say 240 for cpu/mb, 360 for the pair of gtx690 gpu's or vice versa and add another pump.


Quote:
I truly hope you are not overclocking anything!


My intention is to OC the CPU

Quote:
Your layout might look good to some, but cooling efficiency, forget it!


any advice on how to make the loop more efficient?


It would help tremendously if the CPU was known?

I would run 2 loops let the GPUs be handled by the 240 that will bring you close to a 40c load temperature on them.

But seeing as how you're running 2 690s it may take the 360?

If the CPU is a Sandy Bridge K run it on the 360 loop if you intend overclocking it.

But there's missing information?

To be more accurate what CPU are we talking about here?

And what are your CPU overclocking expectations?


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October 5, 2012 4:17:00 PM

Quote:
It would help tremendously if the CPU was known?


cpu is currently a 3820 Sandy Bridge E, I plan on replacing it with the fastest Ivy Bridge E available when they are release
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a c 235 K Overclocking
October 5, 2012 4:30:29 PM

tpb211 said:
Quote:
It would help tremendously if the CPU was known?


cpu is currently a 3820 Sandy Bridge E, I plan on replacing it with the fastest Ivy Bridge E available when they are release


Well under those circumstances it's a good thing you're cooling the motherboard and I would suggest the CPU on the 360 and GPUs on the 240.

With overclocking intentions of the SB-E your best results will be to keep the GPU heat on a separate loop.

I'm running 2 580GTX on a Black Ice 240GTX and my load temps are around the 40c on the lower side, so with the 690s you should be somewhere on the 40c plus side, but still plenty cool over GPU stock air.
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a c 328 K Overclocking
October 6, 2012 1:00:28 AM

Single loop is best but not when restriction and flow rates cause a reduction in the overall flow (and therefore impacting the delta) of the loop. Adding those additional blocks into the mix is going to hurt your flow rates and you'd benefit from either running serial pumps, or 2 loops.

Like 4ryan6 mentioned, if CPU overclocking is your goal, you'd likely be better off running 2 loops. Whether you keep 1 loop, or go to 2, another pump should be in your immediate future.
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October 6, 2012 1:12:42 AM

Quote:
Like 4ryan6 mentioned, if CPU overclocking is your goal, you'd likely be better off running 2 loops. Whether you keep 1 loop, or go to 2, another pump should be in your immediate future.


Many thanks for your help gentleman I truly appreciate it.


flow rate through that setup has been 175lp/h or 42.23gph (.7705gpm) is that pretty low?

Presently I have the Swiftech MCP35x2 Pump which I thought was the equivelant of two pumps in one housing, I realize this would not work for a dual loop system but was wondering if rubix was recommending I double up the double pumps even in a single loop?
(the pump has 2 seperate molex power connectors and 2 seperate pwm connectors).
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a c 235 K Overclocking
October 6, 2012 7:02:02 PM

I have a 2700K overclocked to 4500mhz I also have comparably the exact same radiators as you a 360 and 240, I ran both my 580GTX in the same loop as my CPU and was shocked and disappointed at the load temperature results.

My overclocked CPU suffered the most as it's 57c load temps became unacceptable to me, the GPUs only rose by a 4c load, not so for the CPU.

Any water cooling drastically helps the GPUs, but adding them in the same loop with the CPU is going to limit your overclocking of the CPU, because you will not be able to dissipate the combined heat load.

Because you do not have enough Radiator Real Estate to do it, simple as that!

These are the facts I just experienced, putting my GPUs by themselves on the 240 loop brought them down to a 39c ~ 40c load temperature from 43c ~ 44c load looped with the CPU.

Two loops will yield lower overclocked CPU temperatures and lower GPU load temps as well, plus running the GPUs on water also allows higher overclocks for them as well.

I guarantee you if you run it all on a single loop overclocking wise you will be disappointed, I don't care if you run 3 pumps, if you're running the same amount of radiators!

Now if you were running 3 quad rads that would be a different story, you would have the radiator real estate, to dissipate a lot of generated heat.

Ask your single loop advisers if they are overclocking, specifically their CPUs, and if they are, to what level are they overclocking, and how does their overclocking, compare to your overclocking intentions.

That's what is really going to matter to you!

Ryan

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a c 190 K Overclocking
October 6, 2012 7:03:25 PM

More rad and res is a good thing :) 
Moto
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October 7, 2012 4:57:13 AM

I would love to add more res's but this case (800D) seems to be about full, I could probably put a 480 in the place of the 360 on the top with some modifications if it is worthwhile.

Wondering what temps you are getting Ryan with your cpu on your 360.

Also wondering what case you would recommend that would give me ample room to provide adequate cooling for my components:

Rampage Extreme IV Socket 2011 mobo
Sandy Bridge Extreme CPU (presently 3820, will be updating to fastest Ivy Bridge Extreme upon release)
2 EVGA GTX 690's in SLI

Finally I am wondering what watercooling components you recommend adding (second pump recommendation?) or removng from my loop to make it most efficient, presently I have:

Swiftech Dual Extreme Duty Small Form Factor 12 VDC Industrial PWM Pump - Black (MCP35X2-BK)
Black Ice GTX Xtreme 240 Radiator - Black
Black Ice GTX Xtreme 360 Radiator - Black
XSPC High Flex PVC Tubing - 1/2" ID (3/4"OD) - Clear
Monsoon Free Center Compression Fitting - 1/2"ID x 3/4"OD - Modders 6 Pack White (FCC-1234-6P-WH)
Monsoon 45° Rotary Angle Adapter - 3/4" OD - Chrome (MON-RO-45-34-CH)
Monsoon 90° Rotary Angle Adapter - 3/4" OD - Chrome (MON-RO-90-34-CH)
Monsoon Light Port 45° Rotary Angle Adapter - 3/4" OD - Chrome (MON-LP-RO-45-34-CH)
Monsoon Light Port 90° Rotary Angle Adapter - 3/4" OD - Chrome (MON-LP-RO-90-34-CH)
phobya Dual 240 Radiator Grill - HEX - Black Powder Coat
Corsair Obsidian Series 800D Full Tower Chassis (CC800DW)
Aquacomputer Aquaero 5 XT
Aquacomputer Power Adjust 2 Ultra
Aquacomputer High Flow meter
Aquacomputer Tube Meter
Aquacomputer RGB LED
(5)Noiseblocker NB-eLoop B12-4 120mmx25mm Ultra Silent Bionic Blade Fan - 2400 RPM - 34.29 dBA Hot Item!!
FrozenQ PC Mods 250mm Liquid Fusion V Series "2nd Generation" Reservoir - UV Cathode - UV Blue Helix
Bitspower Water Tank Z-Multi 250 Inline Reservoir - Clear (BP-WTZM250AC-CL)
(2) EK GeForce 690 GTX VGA Liquid Cooling Block - Nickel CSQ (EK-FC690 GTX - Nickel CSQ)
(2) EK GeForce 690 GTX VGA Liquid Cooling RAM Backplate - Black CSQ (EK-FC690 GTX Backplate - Black CSQ)
EK Supremacy Universal CPU Liquid Cooling Block - Full Nickel (EK-Supremacy - Full Nickel)
EK ASUS Rampage IV Extreme Full Board Cooling Block Kit - Nickel CSQ (EK-FB KIT RE4 - Nickel CSQ)
EK FC Bridge Triple Serial CSQ - SLI Connection -Clear(EK-FC Bridge TRIPLE Serial CSQ)
EK FC Bridge Blank Serial CSQ - SLI Connection -Clear (EK-FC Link BLANK Serial
(4) Bitspower G 1/4" Temperature Sensor Stop Fitting - Matte Black (BP-MBWP-CT)
(2)Ice Dragon Cooling Nanofluid Coolant White Color - 32oz
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Best solution

a c 235 K Overclocking
October 7, 2012 6:15:45 PM

tpb211 said:
I would love to add more res's but this case (800D) seems to be about full, I could probably put a 480 in the place of the 360 on the top with some modifications if it is worthwhile.


Sometimes you have to think outside the box to get what you want, both Moto and myself are running RadBoxes, Moto built his from scratch, (Quite impressive actually), I took the easy way out and gutted and modified an old Super Micro server case.

I'm not suggesting you do that, I'm saying there are other alternatives because you can only put so much inside even a huge tower case, some users have side mounted their radiators, some have mounted on top and some in independent Rad Boxes.

It's up to the individuals thoughts goals and designs, knowing their cooling needs, their available space to utilize, and what they want and desire the end results to look like.

tpb211 said:
Wondering what temps you are getting Ryan with your cpu on your 360.


CPU/GPU Loop, CPU load was 57c.

CPU by itself on the 360 radiator the load temperature is 49c, an 8c load temperature drop on the CPU.

That's with the 2700K overclocked to 4500mhz, with Hyper Threading enabled.

Spoiler
However with my TEC loop cooling engaged the CPU load temperature is 35c a mind blowing 22c temperature drop, but that's another thread and another type of cooling altogether! :whistle: 


tpb211 said:
Also wondering what case you would recommend that would give me ample room to provide adequate cooling for my components:


If you were even going to consider trying to put everything inside one case the only ones designed for that are IMO the Mountain Mods.

tpb211 said:
Finally I am wondering what watercooling components you recommend adding (second pump recommendation?) or removing from my loop to make it most efficient, presently I have:


You've made good choices don't second guess that because of my comments, all I'm trying to say is regarding what you have in hand with intentions of overclocking the CPU run 2 independent loops, your CPU has some very good OCing capabilities but it has to be as cool as you can keep it to reach those goals and be running stable on a 24/7 daily basis.

It seems each platform release Intel releases lately the hotter they run overclocked, and the cooler you have to keep them to get the overclocked results you want.

The cooler you can keep the CPU the higher 24/7 stable overclock you'll be able to run.

The 3 quad radiator comment was trying to make a point that to reach the best cooling range possible you have to have the heat dissipating area to do so, but even at that, you are still at the mercy of ambient room temperature no matter how many radiators you run.

The more radiator real estate you're running the cooler your entire setup will run, that's just a given fact, but do you have the space to run additional radiators, there has to come a time with each of us that we say that's it.

Ryan
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October 8, 2012 1:50:41 AM

Best answer selected by tpb211.
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a c 235 K Overclocking
October 8, 2012 1:57:40 AM

Thanks for the BA! :) 
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a c 190 K Overclocking
October 9, 2012 5:47:51 AM

**Quite impressive actually**
Ty Ry :) 
Heres a link Tbp if you are interested
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/274180-11-psycho-ri...
I also have one top-mounted rad, and a couple of extra reservoirs in front of that

like Ryan says, sometimes its you that has to invent the solution to your problem, and we are always willing to help there,
but my signature should tell you a fair bit about my attitude to Modding :p 
Moto
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April 3, 2013 2:45:13 PM

drums101 said:
there would be no benefit for having 2...really there is no benefit for having a flow sensor in the first place besides peace of mind....if your pump fails on you you are most likely going to notice the really high temps before you look in your case and notice that the flow sensor isnt moving....just my two cents....but since you already bought it all I would just throw one in there and keep the second in a spare parts bin maybe you will find a use for it later on


If it's a true flow sensor and not a flow meter and the flow stopped, then it should shut down the computer (just like if your cpu fan burnt out or stopped) and your cpu won't fry. Two of them are not needed, I agee.
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a b K Overclocking
April 3, 2013 5:35:55 PM

I use a flow meter for that exact reason, when I connect it to the CPU fan header, and if the pump fails the computer will auto shutdown before it gets hot enough to cause issues!
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