New to Overclocking - Phenom II 965 BE

[Nethriel12]

Hello,

I have owned my Phenom II computer for about 2 years and never had a problem with it. I have become somewhat bored and now want to overclock it but I am fairly new to overclocking. I have read a lot on overclocking this particular CPU as well as overclocking in general. I have read that others are able to get this CPU up to 4GHz which is a goal I want to go for, so I went out and bought a Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO cooler and installed it since stock heatsink would not be enough.

So far I overclock in the BIOS and have only played with the multipliers. I read that one person, on stock voltage and cooler had it at 3.7GHz - 200Mhz FSB - x18.5 and it was stable for them. So I did exactly that and used Prime95 to stress it. I only ran it for a few hours and it never crashed but I noticed the voltage was 1.53 and the CPU temps went to 70C. Since AMD says its max temps are 65C, I stopped it and went out and bought the cooler since most people on the forums said it was the best bang for your buck. Now the temps don't go over 50C while running Prime95 but I read that 1.53 voltage was still not good. So, I tried lowering the voltage manually but it didn't do anything as CPU-Z & HWMonitor still said it was 1.51 - 1.53 even after I changed it. I then turned the multiplier down to x18 and now I'm 3.6GHz with voltage at 1.42.

Currently this is where I stand, my computer is pretty stable meaning it has not crashed once in 7 hours with a mixture of Diablo 3 and Prime95. If for some reason I can't get to 4GHz overclocked, I would at least like to up my FSB, which is currently at 200. I know in order to do that I will have to play with my RAM which the setup of having two different types of RAM and both only 1333 isn't ideal.

Basically I'm just unsure what the next step I should take should be since I am still new to overclocking and have been reading so very many different forums and articles on it that with all the things to take in to factor, I just don't want to mess something up big time. Below I attached the CPU-Z report of my current setup.


Thank you very much for any help!



Specs
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mainboard: M4A78T-E
Processor: AMD Phenom II X4 965 (Black Edition)
RAM Slot 1: Mushkin 4GB Silverline 1333
RAM Slot 2: Mushkin 4GB Silverline 1333
RAM Slot 3: OCZ Gold 2GB 1333
RAM Slot 4: OCZ Gold 2GB 1333

Timers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

ACPI timer 3.580 MHz
HPET timer 14.318 MHz
Perf timer 3.528 MHz
Sys timer 1.000 KHz


Processors Information
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Codename Deneb
Specification AMD Phenom(tm) II X4 965 Processor
Package Socket AM3 (938)
CPUID F.4.3
Extended CPUID 10.4
Brand ID 14
Core Stepping RB-C3
Technology 45 nm
TDP Limit 124 Watts
Core Speed 3601.6 MHz
Multiplier x FSB 18.0 x 200.1 MHz
HT Link speed 2000.9 MHz
Stock frequency 3600 MHz
Instructions sets MMX (+), 3DNow! (+), SSE, SSE2, SSE3, SSE4A, x86-64, AMD-V
L1 Data cache 4 x 64 KBytes, 2-way set associative, 64-byte line size
L1 Instruction cache 4 x 64 KBytes, 2-way set associative, 64-byte line size
L2 cache 4 x 512 KBytes, 16-way set associative, 64-byte line size
L3 cache 6 MBytes, 48-way set associative, 64-byte line size
FID/VID Control yes
Min FID 4.0x
# of P-States 4
P-State FID 0x14 - VID 0x0C - IDD 21 (18.00x - 1.400 V)
P-State FID 0xB - VID 0x14 - IDD 15 (13.50x - 1.300 V)
P-State FID 0x6 - VID 0x1C - IDD 11 (11.00x - 1.200 V)
P-State FID 0x100 - VID 0x2C - IDD 4 (4.00x - 1.000 V)

Chipset
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Northbridge AMD 790GX rev. 00
Southbridge AMD SB700 rev. 00
Graphic Interface PCI-Express
PCI-E Link Width x16
PCI-E Max Link Width x16
Memory Type DDR3
Memory Size 12288 MBytes
Channels Dual, (Unganged)
Memory Frequency 667.0 MHz (3:10)
CAS# latency (CL) 9.0
RAS# to CAS# delay (tRCD) 9
RAS# Precharge (tRP) 9
Cycle Time (tRAS) 24
Bank Cycle Time (tRC) 33
Command Rate (CR) 2T
Uncore Frequency 2000.9 MHz

Memory SPD
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

DIMM # 1
SMBus address 0x50
Memory type DDR3
Module format UDIMM
Manufacturer (ID) Mushkin (7F7F7F9400000000)
Size 4096 MBytes
Max bandwidth PC3-10700 (667 MHz)
Part number 991770
Number of banks 8
Nominal Voltage 1.50 Volts
EPP no
XMP no
JEDEC timings table CL-tRCD-tRP-tRAS-tRC @ frequency
JEDEC #1 6.0-6-6-17-23 @ 457 MHz
JEDEC #2 7.0-7-7-20-27 @ 533 MHz
JEDEC #3 8.0-8-8-22-30 @ 609 MHz
JEDEC #4 9.0-9-9-25-34 @ 685 MHz

DIMM # 2
SMBus address 0x51
Memory type DDR3
Module format UDIMM
Manufacturer (ID) Mushkin (7F7F7F9400000000)
Size 4096 MBytes
Max bandwidth PC3-10700 (667 MHz)
Part number 991770
Number of banks 8
Nominal Voltage 1.50 Volts
EPP no
XMP no
JEDEC timings table CL-tRCD-tRP-tRAS-tRC @ frequency
JEDEC #1 6.0-6-6-17-23 @ 457 MHz
JEDEC #2 7.0-7-7-20-27 @ 533 MHz
JEDEC #3 8.0-8-8-22-30 @ 609 MHz
JEDEC #4 9.0-9-9-25-34 @ 685 MHz

DIMM # 3
SMBus address 0x52
Memory type DDR3
Module format UDIMM
Manufacturer (ID) OCZ (7F7F7F7FB0000000)
Size 2048 MBytes
Max bandwidth PC3-10700H (667 MHz)
Part number OCZ3G1333LV2G
Number of banks 8
Nominal Voltage 1.50 Volts
EPP no
XMP no
JEDEC timings table CL-tRCD-tRP-tRAS-tRC @ frequency
JEDEC #1 5.0-5-5-12-19 @ 370 MHz
JEDEC #2 6.0-6-6-14-22 @ 444 MHz
JEDEC #3 7.0-7-7-16-26 @ 518 MHz
JEDEC #4 8.0-8-8-18-30 @ 592 MHz
JEDEC #5 9.0-9-9-20-33 @ 666 MHz

DIMM # 4
SMBus address 0x53
Memory type DDR3
Module format UDIMM
Manufacturer (ID) OCZ (7F7F7F7FB0000000)
Size 2048 MBytes
Max bandwidth PC3-10700H (667 MHz)
Part number OCZ3G1333LV2G
Number of banks 8
Nominal Voltage 1.50 Volts
EPP no
XMP no
JEDEC timings table CL-tRCD-tRP-tRAS-tRC @ frequency
JEDEC #1 5.0-5-5-12-19 @ 370 MHz
JEDEC #2 6.0-6-6-14-22 @ 444 MHz
JEDEC #3 7.0-7-7-16-26 @ 518 MHz
JEDEC #4 8.0-8-8-18-30 @ 592 MHz
JEDEC #5 9.0-9-9-20-33 @ 666 MHz

 

[Snivory]

It's called LLC. Load Line Calibration in your BIOS. It's supposed to compensate for vdroop, but sometimes it shoots up to high voltages. When you're adjusting LLC in BIOS, depending on the motherboard, it'll say "Disable", "Auto", "Regular", "High", "Extreme", or something along those lines. "Regular" means disable if there isn't a disable option. Try disabling it for now, and check your vcore. Then play with your LLC settings in response to your vcore, and see which works out for you best. I suggest going with "Extreme" and having a low vcore, say, 1.425. But first, check to see that you're not idling at 1.51 - 1.53. If you are still idling at that vcore, then I'd say, just disable LLC. If it still idles at those voltages, then your motherboard has the dreaded vrise, which you must learn to live with. Sorry, I can't find much support on vrise...

The reason you want to set LLC to the maximum setting is so your processor can idle at lower vcore, saving power. Or so it goes. Also, expect vcore to jump by up to 0.5v during load, so give it some headroom.

Sorry, I'm not sure what the max or recommended vcore is for Denebs. If it helps, the max vcore for Thubans is 1.54, so yeah...

 

[Nethriel12]

I have read that the Denebs max vcore is something like 1.55 or 1.56 but I could be wrong.

So I went into the BIOS and checked for this LLC and didn't see it anywhere. My BIOS categories are as follows:

Main | Ai Tweaker | Advanced | Power | Boot | Tools


Under the "Ai Tweaker" is where I have been working and it is as follows:

Ai Overclock Tuner------------------------------Auto
CPU Ratio---------------------------------------x18-----------(Auto is Default)
DRAM Frequency--------------------------------Auto
CPU/NB Frequency------------------------------Auto
HT Link Speed----------------------------------Auto

CPU Voltage-------------------------------------1.4250--------(Auto is Default)
CPU/NB Voltage----------------------------------Auto
CPU VDDA Voltage--------------------------------Auto
DRAM Voltage------------------------------------Auto
HT Voltage---------------------------------------Auto
NB Voltage---------------------------------------Auto
NB 1.8v Voltage----------------------------------Auto
SB Voltage---------------------------------------Auto

CPU Spread Spectrum----------------------------Auto
PCIE Spread Spectrum---------------------------Auto


Under the "Advanced" tab I notice an "Advance Clock Calibration" setting and I can set it to either Disable, Auto, All Cores or Per Core. Disable is default and how it is currently set. But I don't see this LLC anywhere. I will attach a link to a youtube video showing the exact BIOS I'm working with. (I didn't make the video) www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFiVUo_y6h4


Thanks for your help

 

[Snivory]

Advanced Clock Calibration is for unlocking cores on Zosmas, as far as I know, and doesn't help much with Denebs. Maybe your board doesn't have LLC? Or, maybe you haven't flashed your BIOS to latest? In any case, try setting your vcore to 1.4 for now, and check your vvore through CPU-Z. It should be alright if your vcore is a little higher, around 1.45v or so. If your vcore is still too high, then I'd suggest just sticking to stock. If it's around 1.45v idle, then check your vcore under load, try to keep it under 1.5. Any real damage to K10 chips happen over 1.56v or 90+ Celsius, if I recall correctly. At least, that's what an AMD rep told me a year ago.

So, IMO, 1.51v -1.53v load is acceptable. But that's just my opinion. It may or may not cut your processor's lifespan, there really isn't a set life on processors.

 

[rage33]

your motherboard probably doesn't have a LLC option, I had a similar board a few years back I didn't have a LLC option. I agree with snivory, as 1.51-1.53v is with in the acceptable range for your CPU. however the key to successful OCs' is to get the highest stable clock with the lowest amount of voltage. Since your CPU is a "black edition" you get the ability to adjust the multiplier and FSB in conjunction with one another. you could probably bump up 5 to 10 points on your FSB before needing any real voltage increase, which is great, because then you have the option to increase the multiplier at the same time.

so if you wanted 4ghz you'd set your FSB at 210 and your multiplier at 19.5 your CPU will be running at a speed of 4095mhz or 4.0ghz. Now obviously you wouldn't want to go haphazardly adjusting settings to those numbers right away, but that would be your goal so start by adjusting slow (as I'm sure you have been already) and test each clock stablity after every adjustment. I've seen these chips reach above 4.0ghz before, just remember not all chips are created equally. Good luck, hope that made sense....

 

[mlcaouette]

For one you need to set AI overclock tuner to manual. Since you didn't know this I'd suggest you do some more reading before continuing. You should know your bios inside and out! By that I mean what each and every setting does and how to optimize these sittings for overclocking.

I'm not being mean by making these suggestions it's simply to save you time and frustration when you don't get very far in your overclocking efforts. It will also prevent any incidental damage to your components.

 

[Nethriel12]

Thank you for all your replies. Yes, I did have my AI Overclock Tuner set to manual and was playing around with the FSB a bit. I just set it back to Auto for now just to explain where I was at a little easier, thats all. I stopped playing with the FSB because I read that once you start changing that, you have to adjust your RAM voltage and clock cycles as well. I just wanted to take it one step at a time basically.

So, I ran some short tests just so I can give some hard numbers instead of trying to explain everything out. The test times are short I know, I was just trying to get these figures out sooner than later.


---------------------------------------
Test 1 - 3.61GHz - Prime95 x64 - 30mins
---------------------------------------

FSB ------- 200
Multi ------ x18
vCore ----- 1.4

vCore (Idle) ------- Min 1.42 / Max 1.43
vCore (Load) ------ Min 1.39 / Max 1.40
Temps (Idle) ------ 27C / 29C
Temps (Load) ----- 42C / 44C


---------------------------------------
Test 2 - 3.69GHz - Prime95 x64 - 30mins
---------------------------------------

FSB ------- 205
Multi ------ x18
vCore ----- 1.4

vCore (Idle) ------- Min 1.42 / Max 1.43
vCore (Load) ------ Min 1.39 / Max 1.40
Temps (Idle) ------ 27C / 29C
Temps (Load) ----- 42C / 45C


---------------------------------------
Test 3 - 3.78GHz - Prime95 x64 - 30mins
---------------------------------------

FSB ------- 210
Multi ------ x18
vCore ----- 1.4

vCore (Idle) ------- Min 1.42 / Max 1.43
vCore (Load) ------ Min 1.39 / Max 1.40
Temps (Idle) ------ 28C / 29C
Temps (Load) ----- 44C / 45C

*** BSOD 8mins in - 0x00000124 ***
Overclock.net forum says it is either Voltage increase/decrease or bad RAM.
www.overclock.net/t/1283426/bsod-0x00000124
==============================================================

Is it advisable to continue with increasing the FSB? In this case increase the vCore to say 1.42 and just leave the RAM voltages alone?


Thanks Again

 

[Nethriel12]

Just ran some more tests, I'm Blue Screening a lot and I don't think its the voltage but maybe it is.
I noticed my RAM frequency is changing so maybe because I have been pushing my FSB up it is now effecting my RAM? Since puching it to 215MHz I have yet to last even 10mins on Prime95.


-----------------------------------------------------
Test 4 - 3.78GHz - Prime95 x64 - 30mins
-----------------------------------------------------

FSB ------- 210
Multi ------ x18
vCore ----- 1.4125

vCore (Idle) ------- Min 1.43 / Max 1.44
vCore (Load) ------ Min 1.40 / Max 1.41
Temps (Idle) ------ 28C / 29C
Temps (Load) ----- 45C / 46C

*** Passed ***


-----------------------------------------------------
Test 5 - 3.87GHz - Prime95 x64 - 30mins
-----------------------------------------------------

FSB ------- 215
Multi ------ x18
vCore ----- 1.4125

vCore (Idle) ------- Min 1.43 / Max 1.44
vCore (Load) ------ Min 1.40 / Max 1.41
Temps (Idle) ------ 29C / 30C
Temps (Load) ----- 45C / 46C

*** BSOD 2mins in - 0x00000124 ***


-----------------------------------------------------
Test 6 - 3.87GHz - Prime95 x64 - 30mins
-----------------------------------------------------

FSB ------- 215
Multi ------ x18
vCore ----- 1.4250

vCore (Idle) ------- Min 1.44 / Max 1.45
vCore (Load) ------ Min 1.40 / Max 1.41
Temps (Idle) ------ 29C / 30C
Temps (Load) ----- ??C / ??C

*** BSOD 5secs in - 0x00000124 ***
Also I just noticed at startup that my RAM is running at 1399MHz Ungauged now instead of 1333MHz Ungauged.


-----------------------------------------------------
Test 6 - 3.87GHz - Prime95 x64 - 30mins
-----------------------------------------------------

FSB ------- 215
Multi ------ x18
vCore ----- 1.4375

vCore (Idle) ------- Min 1.45 / Max 1.46
vCore (Load) ------ Min 1.40 / Max 1.41
Temps (Idle) ------ 28C / 30C
Temps (Load) ----- ??C / ??C

*** BSOD 5secs in - 0x00000124 ***
Also I just noticed at startup that my RAM is running at 1432MHz Ungauged now instead of 1333MHz Ungauged.


-----------------------------------------------------
Test 6 - 3.87GHz - Prime95 x64 - 30mins
-----------------------------------------------------

FSB ------- 215
Multi ------ x18
vCore ----- 1.4500

vCore (Idle) ------- Min 1.47 / Max 1.48
vCore (Load) ------ Min 1.43 / Max 1.44
Temps (Idle) ------ 29C / 30C
Temps (Load) ----- 47C / 48C

*** Didn't even BSOD, just restarted computer after 3mins ***

 

[mlcaouette]

When you increase the FSB it not only increases the CPU speed but it also increases the ram speed and the northbridge. Each time you increase the FSB you need to reduce the ram multiplier and the northbridge multi untill they are at or below stock speeds.

I suggest skipping the FSB until you have found your processors max multiplier. Even after that you likely won't get a whole lot more out of the chip by raising the FSB at max multiplier.

You still have voltage/thermal headroom so I'd suggest raising the voltage to around 1.44v or 1.45v. Do not go over 1.55 volts, you will likely run out of thermal headroom around 1.50 volts anyways.

 

[Nethriel12]

Ok Thanks.
So I did as mlcaouette recommended and skipped the FSB for now and focused on the multiplier. I set my vcore to 1.4500 and put my FSB back down to 200MHz and started with a multiplier of x18.5 since I already know I'm stable at x18. Better results overall I feel.

-----------------------------------------------------
Test 8 - 3.71GHz - Prime95 x64 - 30mins
-----------------------------------------------------

FSB ------- 200
Multi ------ x18.5
vCore ----- 1.4500

vCore (Idle) ------- Min 1.47 / Max 1.48
vCore (Load) ------ Min 1.43 / Max 1.44
Temps (Idle) ------ 27C / 28C
Temps (Load) ----- 44C / 46C

*** Passed ***


-----------------------------------------------------
Test 9 - 3.81GHz - Prime95 x64 - 30mins
-----------------------------------------------------

FSB ------- 200
Multi ------ x19
vCore ----- 1.4500

vCore (Idle) ------- Min 1.47 / Max 1.48
vCore (Load) ------ Min 1.43 / Max 1.44
Temps (Idle) ------ 27C / 28C
Temps (Load) ----- 44C / 46C

*** Passed ***


-------------------------------------------------------
Test 10 - 3.91GHz - Prime95 x64 - 30mins
-------------------------------------------------------

FSB ------- 200
Multi ------ x19.5
vCore ----- 1.4500

vCore (Idle) ------- Min 1.47 / Max 1.48
vCore (Load) ------ Min 1.43 / Max 1.44
Temps (Idle) ------ 27C / 29C
Temps (Load) ----- ??C / ??C

*** BSOD 45secs in: 0x00000124 ***

So I'm guessing since it is the exact same code as before that it is the vCore again? Should I up the vCore by .01 to like 1.46 or should I go more like 1.48 - 1.50 since I still have a little headroom left?


Thanks Again

 

[Nethriel12]

So, I did some more testing with the vcore.


-------------------------------------------------------
Test 11 - 3.91GHz - Prime95 x64 - 30mins
-------------------------------------------------------

FSB ------- 200
Multi ------ x19.5
vCore ----- 1.4750

vCore (Idle) ------- Min 1.49 / Max 1.50
vCore (Load) ------ Min 1.44 / Max 1.45
Temps (Idle) ------ 29C / 30C
Temps (Load) ----- ??C / ??C

*** BSOD 15secs in: 0x00000124 ***


-------------------------------------------------------
Test 12 - 3.91GHz - Prime95 x64 - 30mins
-------------------------------------------------------

FSB ------- 200
Multi ------ x19.5
vCore ----- 1.4875

vCore (Idle) ------- Min 1.50 / Max 1.51
vCore (Load) ------ Min 1.47 / Max 1.48
Temps (Idle) ------ 28C / 29C
Temps (Load) ----- 47C / 48C

*** BSOD 8mins in: 0x00000124 ***


-------------------------------------------------------
Test 13 - 3.91GHz - Prime95 x64 - 30mins
-------------------------------------------------------

FSB ------- 200
Multi ------ x19.5
vCore ----- 1.5000

vCore (Idle) ------- Min 1.51 / Max 1.52
vCore (Load) ------ Min 1.48 / Max 1.49
Temps (Idle) ------ 28C / 29C
Temps (Load) ----- 48C / 49C

*** BSOD 6mins in: 0x00000124 ***


-------------------------------------------------------
Test 14 - 3.91GHz - Prime95 x64 - 30mins
-------------------------------------------------------

FSB ------- 200
Multi ------ x19.5
vCore ----- 1.5125

vCore (Idle) ------- Min 1.53 / Max 1.54
vCore (Load) ------ Min 1.49 / Max 1.50
Temps (Idle) ------ 29C / 30C
Temps (Load) ----- 50C / 52C

*** Passed ***


I finally got it to last at least 30mins of Prime95 but the idle vcore is too high right?

 

[mlcaouette]

The vcore is on the high end but not over the 1.55v max for phenom chips.

Re-enabling power saving features will bring the idle voltage way down as it will downclock the cpu as well (only when the computer is at idle). To accomplish this just re-enable C1E and cool n quiet, then go to windows power options and under plan options you can set cpu low limit and cpu max, I use 20% min and 100% max.

I suggest you test for stability for at least two hours though.

You can also fiddle with LLC if you want, just bring the voltage down a bit and increase LLC setting. Careful with this though, start with smalll increases to see how it affects the cpu voltage under load. You don't want to accidentally overvolt your cpu when it comes under full load.

 

[Nethriel12]

Alright. So I re enabled the C1E and Cool N'Quiet but when I went to windows power options, the settings to adjust the CPU limits are not there. All I get under the "Processor Power Management" expander in Advanced Power Options is "System Cooling Policy." I'm on Windows 7 Professional with everything up to date so I don't know why the Min & Max are not showing up.

Also, I did flash my BIOS to the lastest as well and still there was no LLC so I guess my mobo must not support it.

 

[Nethriel12]

Wow.
So apparently at x19 multiplier the Min & Max options are not there but at x18.5 and lower they are. So I guess this Processor and motherboard are just a bad combo for overclocking, mainly the motherboard.

 

[mlcaouette]

That is odd that the min and max cpu state don't show up at 19x multi. Mine worked fine at a 20x multi. Perhaps you should open a thread about it in the windows 7 forum cause I can't think of a reason why it would not work. The only time Min and max are not listed for me is when C1E and/or cool n quiet are disabled.

LLC is not very important anyways.

Curious are you on manual voltage or offset? If your using manual try using offset voltage (I can help if you're unsure on how to set it). I'm not sure if the power saving features work when you have manual voltage set.

 

[Nethriel12]

Ya I read on 'Microsoft Answers' that another person was having the same issue and another user told them that his doesn't show up either after he sets his multi to x19 but x18.5 and below works just fine.

Link: (They mention it at the bottom of the page)
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-performance/processor-power-management-lacks-minimum-and/da4802fd-48df-4d3b-986f-ee35f1a42c02


I have just been going into the BIOS under the "AI Tweaker" tab and manually setting the voltage. To be honest I'm not familiar with using offset voltage.

What I've done for just the time being is setting my multi to x18.5 so I can use the Min & Max (20% and 100% like what was recommended) and I put my FSB up to 210. In order to get 'that' stable I had to manually set my vcore up to 1.45v. So that is where I am right now.

 

[mlcaouette]

Offset voltage just takes the stock voltage and either adds to it or subtracts from it depending on how you set it. First you have to go back to stock settings and see what your M/B sets the voltage to, then take your desired voltage say 1.45v and subtract the stock we'll say 1.38v, this gives you .07v. When setting the offset you would enter a +.07 for the user input. Then just reboot and check cpu-z to ensure that the voltage setting came out as expected.

Can't say if it would solve your problem or not since it seems more likely it is a chipset or bios issue that they just never bothered to fix.

Hopefully you are satisfied with your overclock anyways. You should consider joining the AMD overclocking club (find the link in my sig).

I'd also recommend you test for stability by running prime for at least two hours and then trying some games too.