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Obama wants the marines to vist Gaddaffi ...

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February 24, 2011 10:00:59 PM

Maybe the US is waiting for an invitation from anti-Gadhafi elements, once they get a little more organized. How could the international community condemn US actions if they acted on their own (without a UN resolution) after recieving a plea for help?

Speaking of the CIA, they must be going nutso with all of the action going on in the middle east. Hope they don't end up helping to create another Taliban type of situation.

On a side note, I was really surprised to hear the comment coming from some of the people in Bahrain in regards to what kind of government they would like to see there. I forget exactly how it went, but something like, "no Sunni, no Shia, only Bahraini." That is encouraging; damn near sounds like they want a real democracy, not some theocratic bullspit regime.
February 25, 2011 3:17:21 AM

I don't think that the US will interfere with matters overtly, at least at this point. However, but if it turns into a bloodbath over there, I suspect that the UN will get in on the action in some way- perhaps sending "peace keepers" in. But that all remains to be seen.
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February 25, 2011 3:52:17 AM

Oh, please; no, NO, NO.

Grim and bloody as it is, it is an internal problem. We have no business getting involved right now.

If the UN wants to get involved, let them. Even then, we (the US) should not be directly involved. I don't think we should do more than provide logistical support.

buwish, going all the way back to the Korean conflict, name one major UN peacekeeping operation that ultimately turned out well.

Wrecks, Bahrain is pretty moderate. They ran out of oil years ago. Their economy is based on banking, commerce, and tourism. With a large U.S. Navy base there, we are also a significant contributor to their economy. The downside is that they have a Shia majority governed by a Sunni minority.

I am a U.S. expat, former military (spent 21 years running around in baggy green skin and black feet), working in the Eastern Province of Saudi Arabia. I usually go over to Bahrain 2 or 3 weekends a month. My friends and I are watching events in Bahrain very closely.
February 25, 2011 8:37:54 AM

Baa ... dial up the tritium on the physics package and load it into the tomahawk.

One will do ...
February 25, 2011 12:49:29 PM

Not in the US national interest to intervene as this is a Libyan problem for now. The UN may get involved, but the Libyans will resolve sooner.
February 25, 2011 9:31:50 PM

O reynod, a hydrogen bomb won't do the trick! I'd go with a low yield, run in the mill A-bomb from the early 50's and drop it on his house. Perhaps a 10-15 kilotoner would do the trick. If he's got bunkers and such there, they won't last, obviously.

I'm joking of course. Nukes are a god awful invention that man has no business having.

Anyways, upon taking in the statements of Libyan ambassador, who has defected and those who have left the country and spoke to the media in Malta and Turkey, things are pretty bad there, no doubt. The big worry is that Gaddafi may move to use mustard gas against civilians, which I think will be the final straw and someone will move in to kill him, i.e. Libyans, the UN, or a coalition of sorts, most likely involving the US.

I know that sanctions have been laid upon Libya, but as the ambassador said, they won't do squat. Sanctions are a complete joke in the sense that the people suffer- not the leaders. He suggested that the only way to get rid of Gaddafi is to bomb the country's anti-air craft defenses and air fields to keep the planes on the ground (there have been reports of planes dropping bombs on civilians). From there, as reynod mentioned, load a few tomahawk missiles up and take out key installations and move in.

I agree with COLGeek in the sense that the US shouldn't take the lead here, as we have enough on our plate. But if the UN wants to show that it has teeth, they need to get an international force together ASAP and move in. Either that or send in a special ops team in the middle of the night to deal with Gaddafi. Problem solved.

February 26, 2011 2:31:48 AM

Bull jsc. These people are fighting and dieing to get something we preach to everybody in the cause of the iraq and afghan war. Whose people do nothing but either sit scared in their houses (with good reason), or try and blow us (military personal, and yes that includes me) up.

I'm in afghan right now, but I would have no issues with going and helping these people out. I never had or never will have a problem with helping people out that are trying to help themselves. I only have issues when it's "helping" people out that are to lazy or scared to help themselves.
February 26, 2011 7:53:28 AM

buwish said:
O reynod, a hydrogen bomb won't do the trick! I'd go with a low yield, run in the mill A-bomb from the early 50's and drop it on his house. Perhaps a 10-15 kilotoner would do the trick. If he's got bunkers and such there, they won't last, obviously.

I'm joking of course. Nukes are a god awful invention that man has no business having.

Anyways, upon taking in the statements of Libyan ambassador, who has defected and those who have left the country and spoke to the media in Malta and Turkey, things are pretty bad there, no doubt. The big worry is that Gaddafi may move to use mustard gas against civilians, which I think will be the final straw and someone will move in to kill him, i.e. Libyans, the UN, or a coalition of sorts, most likely involving the US.

I know that sanctions have been laid upon Libya, but as the ambassador said, they won't do squat. Sanctions are a complete joke in the sense that the people suffer- not the leaders. He suggested that the only way to get rid of Gaddafi is to bomb the country's anti-air craft defenses and air fields to keep the planes on the ground (there have been reports of planes dropping bombs on civilians). From there, as reynod mentioned, load a few tomahawk missiles up and take out key installations and move in.

I agree with COLGeek in the sense that the US shouldn't take the lead here, as we have enough on our plate. But if the UN wants to show that it has teeth, they need to get an international force together ASAP and move in. Either that or send in a special ops team in the middle of the night to deal with Gaddafi. Problem solved.


Bu I am referring to the "boosted fission" device commonly used for small tactical nukes and they are very clean.

Essentially the "pit" is elevated and the package can "insert" up to 15ml of tritium gas into the pit - boosting the yied from 1Kt up to 28 kt - depending on what you want.

Essentially as the mass of the primary is compressed and begins the fission reaction, the tritium fuses.

it would not be considered a full hydrogen bomb, as these are three stage devices - Teller/ Ulam devices.

I am not sure if a peanut thermonuclear package would fit into that taxi either...


The whole premise is absurd as in reality ...

We should just get Chuck Norris out of retirement and maybe send Steven Segall to carry his towel, chair, and smokes.
February 26, 2011 5:12:50 PM

king, unfortunately, all problems cannot be solved by by a large hammer. And the U.S. military is the ultimate in big freakin' hammers.

Now, once the revolutionaries (and that is what is happening) reach 51% of the population, I have no problem with immediately recognizing and supporting a new government. Until then, it is their revolution.
February 27, 2011 12:54:57 AM

Good point jsc.

I hope they sort it out soon so things can settle down.

There are a lot of frightened women and children over there that somebody needs to consider first ... not last.
February 27, 2011 12:27:33 PM

Man, I would love it if anti-Gadhafi elements asked Canada for help directly.We would be perfect for them. After we helped them crush Gadhafi's ass, we'd pack up and leave.

After that, Canada would negotiate a new direct Libya to USA trade agreement with the Libyans, while simultaneously negotiating with
the USA and OPEC for Canada's natural resource independence.

Further talks facilitated by Canada between the EU and OPEC, and independent negotiations between Libya (formerly of OPEC) and other oil
producing nations would mean sweeping restructuring and reform, and stabilization of the current unsustainable monster of a global economy, in regards to oil and gas, anyway. :sarcastic: 

This would promote a more easily managed global withdrawal from our non-renewable natural resources. Humanity is still doomed, of course. The
epic fail will just be dragged out longer, and be all the more painfull. It's all over in 2161. :hello: 

February 28, 2011 9:17:54 AM

Didn't the US invade Canada ... ??

Well according to South Park they did ... lol.
February 28, 2011 1:33:40 PM

Wow...I didnt realize how many pacifists there were out there...

I think the Libyans need to feel the pain and fight for what they want. But we should not sit on the sidelines and say let the even more weak kneed Eurpeans do something. They wouldnt get involved in in the civil war in their own neighborhood - SErbia/Czechoslavakia. WE had to do it.

The US is the only true world power right now and we should step up and help out (yes we are declining in power). But we are continually hamstrung by pacifists who want to look the other way when the ethnic cleansing starts. Im sorry, I cant do that. I personally would rather try and die than sit on the sidelines.

Secondly, we need to quit apologizing for our actions as a country. Get in there as aggressively as we know how, and turn it over the Libyans to run.

That is part of what made America great
February 28, 2011 2:02:11 PM

vvhocare5 said:
Wow...I didnt realize how many pacifists there were out there...

I think the Libyans need to feel the pain and fight for what they want. But we should not sit on the sidelines and say let the even more weak kneed Eurpeans do something. They wouldnt get involved in in the civil war in their own neighborhood - SErbia/Czechoslavakia. WE had to do it.

The US is the only true world power right now and we should step up and help out (yes we are declining in power). But we are continually hamstrung by pacifists who want to look the other way when the ethnic cleansing starts. Im sorry, I cant do that. I personally would rather try and die than sit on the sidelines.

Secondly, we need to quit apologizing for our actions as a country. Get in there as aggressively as we know how, and turn it over the Libyans to run.

That is part of what made America great

OK, I'll bite....Which Libyans would you turn it over to?

Kicking butt and taking names, easy. Forming a new government, extremely hard. Is it worth it in the long run? Maybe.

Other than the pursuit of liberty and fostering democracy, what is the US interest in Libya, or any of the other nations in the headlines? If we, the US, impose our will and then hand over power to someone in those countries, what have we solved and will those new governments be considered legitimate?

No easy answers here, my friend. Great discussion though. Thanks! HOOAH!!!
February 28, 2011 10:31:59 PM

Speaking of nukes, the USS Enterprise (nuclear powered aircraft carrier) and its battle group are on the way to the Libyan coast. At this point I'm thinking it is a threat move- no immediate action. But its presence may be the beginning of a no fly zone enforcement, at the least right now.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1361600/USS-Ent...

The Germans and British also sent rescue missions to the Libyan desert over the weekend.
March 1, 2011 12:30:51 PM

We predicted that move but there must be a second carrier group within 200 nautical miles by now ... call it overlap.



March 1, 2011 1:48:26 PM

Bahrain is home to the US Navy 5th Fleet. If Bahrain falls our supply lines into Iraq and Afghanistan could be severly compromised. This is not good.
March 1, 2011 6:06:25 PM

I'm all for staying out of this internal dispute in Libya, but there are 2 things that bother me about it. One, if it is indeed true that Gaddhafi was responsible for ordering the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103, he needs to be brought to justice or just done away with. Personally, I'd like to see him rot in the Hague, as I hear that the accommodations are quite lovely. Two, no one likes to see civilians, much less peaceful protesters slaughtered by the military.
March 1, 2011 7:32:21 PM

I am sure many in the militaries of the world would like to see civilians of all descriptions being slaughtered. If they didn't history would be very different.
March 1, 2011 10:35:23 PM

strangestranger said:
I am sure many in the militaries of the world would like to see civilians of all descriptions being slaughtered. If they didn't history would be very different.

While you are entitled to your opinion on any subject, I can tell you as a member of the US military, for 26 years, that we will not tolerate those with the behavior you assume many military members have.

The last time I checked, I work for a civilian and civilians make the decisions for how the US operates and where we will use the military in any of our roles and capacities. In this regard, I strongly disagree with your position.
March 1, 2011 11:22:57 PM

COLGeek said:
While you are entitled to your opinion on any subject, I can tell you as a member of the US military, for 26 years, that we will not tolerate those with the behavior you assume many military members have.

The last time I checked, I work for a civilian and civilians make the decisions for how the US operates and where we will use the military in any of our roles and capacities. In this regard, I strongly disagree with your position.



Yes, the last time I checked the military (at least in the USA) is commanded by a civilian elected by civilians.

Thank you for your service COLGeek! (o7 salute)
March 2, 2011 12:05:52 AM

Oldmangamer_73 said:
Yes, the last time I checked the military (at least in the USA) is commanded by a civilian elected by civilians.

Thank you for your service COLGeek! (o7 salute)

HOOAH!!!
March 2, 2011 8:03:18 AM

Assume?

How can I assume something that has happened since humans have been around and formed militaries.

You don't think militaries including your own have deliberately killed civilians for the heck of it or because they like to kill?

I would suggest you are being naive. Oh and it is never just a "few bad apples" that do these things in case you feel like suggesting that as a reason.
March 2, 2011 11:08:09 AM

strangestranger said:
Assume?

How can I assume something that has happened since humans have been around and formed militaries.

You don't think militaries including your own have deliberately killed civilians for the heck of it or because they like to kill?

I would suggest you are being naive. Oh and it is never just a "few bad apples" that do these things in case you feel like suggesting that as a reason.

You seem to only focus on the negative. That being said, I respect your opinion regardless of how I feel that you are misguided.

Humans have done good things since the dawn of time as well. Does that mean we have no capacity to help and to only harm?

To the Libyan people, you have my respect and heartfelt best wishes for victory in establishing your own democracy.

Have a great day!
March 2, 2011 11:21:25 AM

I wasn't arguing whether or not people can do good or not.

Only saying that there are those that would like to see people slaughtered, which is true enough.
March 2, 2011 12:43:44 PM

Wait ... didn't you just post this though SS?

I would suggest you are being naive. Oh and it is never just a "few bad apples" that do these things in case you feel like suggesting that as a reason.

Either your saying many or most ... or your not?

Don't worry ... we won't invade Scottland.

You can keep your windy tundra covered hills and 14 sheep.
March 2, 2011 1:31:03 PM

What I mean by not being a few bad apples I mean it is not because they as individuals are seperate from the organisations they are in. It is usually something in the make up of the organisation that makes them that way or allows them to do these things.

There are many that would do these things or at least not stop them if they are done. Many != most though, however the minority does not act on their own.

The idea that people do not like doing these sorts of things is a joke, under the right circumstances each and every one of us would likely commit crimes like these, we all say we wouldn't but it only take the right environment for it to happen.
March 2, 2011 3:35:47 PM

strangestranger said:
What I mean by not being a few bad apples I mean it is not because they as individuals are seperate from the organisations they are in. It is usually something in the make up of the organisation that makes them that way or allows them to do these things.

There are many that would do these things or at least not stop them if they are done. Many != most though, however the minority does not act on their own.

The idea that people do not like doing these sorts of things is a joke, under the right circumstances each and every one of us would likely commit crimes like these, we all say we wouldn't but it only take the right environment for it to happen.

Speak for yourself, my friend. This cynical viewpoint you possess is certainly in the most minuscule of minorities.

To group folks as you do, into nothing more than organized "thuggery" who relish in doing harm to others and then casting that opinion onto the reputation of the Armed Forces (I have served with many from around the world), is highly offensive to those who wear the uniform.

May you have an enlightening day and may no harm come your way. Peace be with you.
March 2, 2011 10:36:51 PM

Looks like a CNN crew almost had a bomb dropped on them today:

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2011/03/02/ex...

Scary stuff, no doubt.

According to the Marine commandant, it would essentially take a huge UN contribution to get a no fly zone going over Libya. So who knows what will be done at this point?
March 2, 2011 10:41:39 PM

COLGeek-

I, along with many others appreciate and admire your service in the armed forces. My grandfather, who served in Korea, eventually became the state commander of the Illinois American legion and later was on the national board of the AL. His one true goal of such service was to improve the care/support given to veterans via the various veteran affairs organizations (government and private). Needless to say, I'm sure he wouldn't be satisfied where things are today, but it is my hope that his work is making somewhat of a difference.
March 2, 2011 10:59:11 PM

buwish said:
COLGeek-

I, along with many others appreciate and admire your service in the armed forces. My grandfather, who served in Korea, eventually became the state commander of the Illinois American legion and later was on the national board of the AL. His one true goal of such service was to improve the care/support given to veterans via the various veteran affairs organizations (government and private). Needless to say, I'm sure he wouldn't be satisfied where things are today, but it is my hope that his work is making somewhat of a difference.

Sounds like your grandfather was a HOOAH gentleman and I, for one, applaud his efforts. I am married to a disabled vet and I will retire in a couple of years myself. Much has been done for vets, but the job is far from over.

Regarding this thread, while I firmly believe in one's right to their opinion, I am against broad generalizations that paint groups with one brush, especially when a negative tone is used to besmirch the efforts of so many. That was my only point earlier.

That being said, the Libyan people have their hands full right now and I am pulling for them as are many others throughout the world.

Thanks for the HOOAH words, buwish, I appreciate the sentiment, brudda!
March 3, 2011 1:26:33 AM

Yeah, Col. i've already been labeled a crazy redneck hillbilly because I believe in using firearms for personal protection and I believe in that most controversial of figures known as God. Broad generalizations indeed...... 07
March 3, 2011 8:14:28 AM

No you are a crazy redneck hilbilly, becasue you are a crazy redneck hillbilly.

It is funny how people say not to paint a group yet that is what people do with the military for no obvious reason. Ever noticed how everyone is a hero regardless of whether they do anything heroic. If I am cynical what the hell is everyone who puts people on false pedestals.
March 3, 2011 4:44:55 PM

WW3 if the states gets in there.
Crazy people in there with money can buy several nukes.
They have no food but have golden aks.
I fear the next few weeks.
March 3, 2011 4:51:52 PM

COLGeek, please also accept my thanks for your service. My father and brother are both former Marines, and my sister flew CH-53s for the Navy during the first phase of the Gulf War. I believe I understand your point of view.
Personally, I don't see any American RIGHTS (possibly some "interests," but not "rights") at stake here, so I really hope the USA stays out of it. The US Military is not made up of "peacekeepers," but of warfighters. There's nothing going on in Libya that even begins to justify a declaration of war by the US, so we have no business sticking our noses in it.

Edit: I don't mean to imply that I wouldn't like to see Moammar Gadfly reduced to a burnt-pink paste, it's just not a job to be done at US taxpayer expense.
March 3, 2011 8:24:04 PM

My concern is that this is starting to spread, especially in Pakistan. Pakistan has NUKES in case anyone forgot.
March 3, 2011 9:16:28 PM

Pakistan has been a festering sinkhole for American taxpayer dollars probably for decades now, for which no one (other than Pakistani elite) have anything to show.
I really hope that mainstream Islam is ready, willing, and able to convince the world that it can co-exist; that "Convert, be subjugated, or be slaughtered" is nothing but a gross misinterpretation of the words of their prophet. Otherwise, I find myself becoming uneasy with the thought that Muslims need to renounce their beliefs or face extermination.
March 3, 2011 9:36:44 PM

Interesting article by Dr. Jack Wheeler. A few years old but still relevant.

Written by Dr. Jack Wheeler

Should Pakistan Exist?

Let’s cut to the chase. The answer is no. Pakistan should never have
existed in the first place. There is no reason for it to continue to
exist now.

The place to start here is with The Lunacy of a British Legacy from
July 2006, which gives you the background on Pakistan’s creation, and
that of the Taliban.

You could follow that up with Moslem Terrorist Drug Lords With Nukes
from November 2007, which explains the Afghan heroin production as a
joint operation between the Taliban and the ISI - the Pakistan
military’s InterServices Intelligence Agency - and how Afghan
president Hamid Karzai and his family are in on the heroin take.

Mr. Karzai met with Mr. Zero in the White House yesterday (5/06),
along with the leader of Pakistan, Asif Ali Zardari. All three men
privately despise each other, and publicly professed mutual admiration
and support.

Ostensibly, they were meeting because the Taliban are now
destabilizing Pakistan as well as Afghanistan. You can be sure Zero
did not insist on solving the heart of the Taliban problem, any more
than did his predecessor. Mr. Bush refused to order Afghanistan’s
poppy fields be wiped out via high-altitude spraying of a micro-
herbicide developed by DARPA. And so has Zero.

The poppy-killing fungus will cause the entire Afghan poppy crop
(which supplies 90% of the world’s heroin) to disappear for decades -
with no other crop being affected. Doing so would wipe out the
Taliban and the ISI financially. But as it would also wipe out lots
of powerful folks on the take in the Afghan and Pak governments, it
will not be used, and the Taliban will expand its power until it takes
over both governments.

So let’s talk about India instead. There are indications India is
about to take matters into its own hands, with or without Washington’s
approval. This is particularly true since, as noted by former US
ambassador to India Robert Blackwill in a speech in New Delhi this
week (5/05), Zero is abandoning the efforts of George Bush to build a
strong US-India relationship in favor of currying favor with China.


Pakistan is a make-believe country. Take a look at this official map
which the Pak government delineates its borders:

(image removed, google it and look as you read on)

First look at the area in the upper right labeled “Jammu & Kashmir.”
See that faint dotted line starting at the China border, goes across
the area underneath Skardu and wraps around Srinigar? That’s the real
border: below it (Srinigar) is India, above it (Skardu) is Pak. The
Skardu-Gilgit area is composed of ancient tribal peoples such as
Baltits and Hunzukuts who just want to be left alone by the rest of
the world, including Islamabad.

The NWFP, or North West Frontier Province is Pushtun, the same tribe
that populates 42% of Afghanistan, forming that country’s largest
ethnic group. That nice dark line between Afghanistan and the NWFP,
which Islamabad pretends is its border, is an illusion. There is no
border, the entire region on both sides of it are Pushtun, and
Islamabad has never exercised any control over it.

The pretend line continues, claiming to divide Afghanistan and Iran
from the Pak province of Baluchistan, a huge region that takes up
almost 45% of Pakistan yet contains only 10% of the country’s
population, mostly split between Pushtuns in the north and wild
Baluchi nomads in the southern desert wastelands.

The Pak government has never controlled the Baluchis any more than the
Pushtuns. It’s all Apache country over which it has little real
sovereignty.

So we come to the core of the country, Punjab and Sindh, and the
unending hatred between Punjabis and Sindhis.

First a famous story that I can’t resist relating. India, including
what is now Pakistan, was created by the imperial British, and when
the region of Sindh was conquered by British General Sir Charles
Napier in 1842, he sent a one-word message back to Delhi headquarters
announcing his victory: peccavi.

In those days, all British officers were classically educated, so they
knew instantly what Napier was saying. Peccavi is Latin for “we
sinned.” Napier had Sindh.

Sindh is a feudal region dominated by wealthy land-owning families (of
which the Bhutto and Zardari families are among) who control the lives
of 40 million poverty-stricken illiterate farmers.

It also contains Pakistan’s largest city (12m) and business center,
Karachi, where the Mohajirs are concentrated, the Indian Moslems who
fled to Pakistan during 1947 Partition and their descendents. The
hatred is mutual between them and native Sindhis.

While Sindhis are farmers ruled by a land-owning aristocracy and
Mohajirs are business folk, Punjabis consider themselves warriors.
Half the Pak population is Punjabi, some 80m. 90% of the Pak Army
officer corps in Punjabi.

Not only is the Punjabi Pak military so politically powerful that , as
Alex Alexiev observes this week in The Real Problem in Pakistan,
“Pakistan is not a sovereign state with a military, but a sovereign
military with a state at its disposal to use as it sees fit.” It is
that the Punjabi Pak military is so economically powerful that it
controls most business activity like a mafia.

There is no way to untie this Gordian Knot of ethnic hatreds,
fanatical stone-age Islamism, a heroin-smuggling mafia military,
corruption at every level of society, feudal poverty, and an arsenal
of nuclear weapons. The solution is to let India cut the Gordian Knot
of Pakistan asunder.

This is tricky. India has no desire to conquer and absorb Pakistan,
which would double the number of Moslems within it (there are 160
million Moslems in each). It needs to rather break the place apart
into pieces.

The first object should be a quick in-and-out military operation to
seize Pakistan’s nukes. They are dispersed so it’s complicated - and
more so because there will be no help from the US military under
Zero. So India will be smart about it and take advantage of the Pak
military’s greatest vulnerability: it’s officers and key personnel
are for sale, they can be bought.

The Punjabis have always looked upon Afghanistan as theirs, and the
Pushtuns as barbarian inferiors. (The disgust is returned. The
greatest insult a Pushtun parent can give a misbehaving child is:
“Stop that - you’re behaving as a Punjabi.”) Simultaneously, they are
in constant fear of Pushtuns on either side of the border joining
together to form an independent “Pushtunistan.”

Yet Pushtuns don’t want their own political entity apart from
Afghanistan. The solution is to move the border east, so that
Afghanistan encompasses the NWFP and the Pushtun region of northern
Baluchistan.

This is not difficult to broker. The Pushtuns would jump at the
chance to be unified, and it would deny the Taliban of the fig leaf of
a Pak sanctuary. After India seizes the Pak nukes and engenders a
period of chaotic destabilization, India has Kabul claim all of
Pushtunistan and the Pushtuns declare for it. The US military,
commanded by David Petraeus, is then free to nail the Taliban with no
concern over violating “Pakistan sovereignty.”

During the same chaotic time, the Baluchis can get the independence
from Islamabad they’ve fought decades for. The capital would be
Quetta, and the Baluchis could make a go of it, as one of the world’s
largest gold and copper deposits is at Reko Diq in the west near Iran
(it’s being developed by the Australian mining giant BHP Billiton).
Further, the Chinese have spent $2 billion developing the Baluchi port
of Gwadar (spelled Gawadar on the map) with state-of-the-art import/
export facilities.

What would be left is a rump state of Sindh-Punjab plus the Gilgit-
Skardu northern territory. If the Sindhis and Punjabis and Mohajirs
can get along sufficiently, they could still have a single country
however reduced in size and power - for the chaos should be used to
shrink concomitantly the size and power of the Punjabi Pak military.

Such a plan is being worked on right now at the South Block
headquarters of the Indian Defense Ministry in New Delhi. The
generals all realize now they have to act alone without America. It
is the same situation that Israel is in regarding Iran. There is even
some talk - for there is a great deal of communication between the
Indian and Israeli militaries - of coordinating attacks, Israel upon
Iran’s nukes, Indian upon Pakistan’s nukes, simultaneously.

“Your president would be like a deer in the headlights if this
occurred,” says one US-educated Defense Ministry fellow I know. “He’d
be paralyzed.”

Pakistan has become the world’s most dangerous failed state. It needs
to be disarmed and dismantled. Just like Iran. Working together and
ignoring Zero, India and Israel may kill two nuclear birds with one
cooperative stone.
March 3, 2011 10:22:23 PM

Now that's something I would honestly LOVE to see. Being about destruction and death, War is, by definition, a Bad Thing; but, when it becomes the lesser of Evils, it should be pursued as though it were the greatest of Goods. I'm just glad that this one need not involve the US.
March 4, 2011 7:03:31 AM

Onus said:

I really hope that mainstream Islam is ready, willing, and able to convince the world that it can co-exist; that "Convert, be subjugated, or be slaughtered" is nothing but a gross misinterpretation of the words of their prophet. Otherwise, I find myself becoming uneasy with the thought that Muslims need to renounce their beliefs or face extermination.

On what do you base this?
March 4, 2011 7:13:52 AM

Onus said:

Edit: I don't mean to imply that I wouldn't like to see Moammar Gadfly reduced to a burnt-pink paste, it's just not a job to be done at US taxpayer expense.

Right now, the UN is pushing for a no-fly zone over Libya. The only country in any position to enforce that would be us. To do so, we would need to suppress the Libya air defense sites. The OIC and other Arab organizations, while crying crocodile tears over the death of Libyan civilians, regard foreign military (basically, us) action as unacceptable.
March 4, 2011 10:26:55 AM

I agree taking out the poppy fields would be a great start to resolving some of the other issues.

Convert those stealth drones for crop dusting ...
March 4, 2011 2:50:26 PM




Spot on reynod. "No Fly Zone" sounds like a wonderful idea for sure. The stark reality, as Gates said, is that Libyans would suffer a LOT of casualties as a result. We're talking massive air defense suppression operations as well as blowing any Libyan plane that does manage to take off out of the sky.

This is a trap for the USA. The mileage our enemies could get out of the propaganda is staggering.
March 4, 2011 3:20:32 PM

They could just fly around and drop beer and skittles for the good guys ...

That would be a nice change.

More beer ... that will do the trick.

Look ... some interesting facts ... Australia, Canada, the UK, and now Germany ... we all drink heaps of beer. Its been peaceful here ... like in the US.

Nobody is mad enough to attack drunks with guns ...

Fit drop pods to the jets and get on with it.

May I also suggest some pretzels, nuts, and possibly rice crackers too ... cater for all of the ethnic diversity of our rebel friends.

I may be onto something ... what do you think?
March 4, 2011 3:32:12 PM

LOL! Sure i'm on board. I'll blow the froth off a few with ya mate! :) 

Wait, they don't drink alcohol do they? Bummer. Oh well, they can just stand there and watch us drink. :) 
March 4, 2011 3:53:02 PM

Right ... I forgot about that ... though the lack of beer may be the root of that problem.

See ... beer ... working for world peace.
March 4, 2011 3:55:01 PM

It's true, people drinking beer are less inclined to behead other people! Excellent point!
March 4, 2011 6:46:24 PM

Yep, it's not an American job. And, if the UN wants it, the UN can pay for it. Yeah, right...the UN produces nothing of value, so they can't pay for squat.
!