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Obama wants the marines to vist Gaddaffi ...

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/obama-warns-all-options-on-table-in-response-to-libya-violence/story-e6frg6so-1226011592430

Send in the supercarriers and post the guy some tomahawks ... he is in that compund in the city.

I'll send you the grid references ... just in case the CIA is busy shovelling snow.


:)
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More about obama marines vist gaddaffi
  1. Maybe the US is waiting for an invitation from anti-Gadhafi elements, once they get a little more organized. How could the international community condemn US actions if they acted on their own (without a UN resolution) after recieving a plea for help?

    Speaking of the CIA, they must be going nutso with all of the action going on in the middle east. Hope they don't end up helping to create another Taliban type of situation.

    On a side note, I was really surprised to hear the comment coming from some of the people in Bahrain in regards to what kind of government they would like to see there. I forget exactly how it went, but something like, "no Sunni, no Shia, only Bahraini." That is encouraging; damn near sounds like they want a real democracy, not some theocratic bullspit regime.
  2. I don't think that the US will interfere with matters overtly, at least at this point. However, but if it turns into a bloodbath over there, I suspect that the UN will get in on the action in some way- perhaps sending "peace keepers" in. But that all remains to be seen.
  3. Oh, please; no, NO, NO.

    Grim and bloody as it is, it is an internal problem. We have no business getting involved right now.

    If the UN wants to get involved, let them. Even then, we (the US) should not be directly involved. I don't think we should do more than provide logistical support.

    buwish, going all the way back to the Korean conflict, name one major UN peacekeeping operation that ultimately turned out well.

    Wrecks, Bahrain is pretty moderate. They ran out of oil years ago. Their economy is based on banking, commerce, and tourism. With a large U.S. Navy base there, we are also a significant contributor to their economy. The downside is that they have a Shia majority governed by a Sunni minority.

    I am a U.S. expat, former military (spent 21 years running around in baggy green skin and black feet), working in the Eastern Province of Saudi Arabia. I usually go over to Bahrain 2 or 3 weekends a month. My friends and I are watching events in Bahrain very closely.
  4. Baa ... dial up the tritium on the physics package and load it into the tomahawk.

    One will do ...
  5. Not in the US national interest to intervene as this is a Libyan problem for now. The UN may get involved, but the Libyans will resolve sooner.
  6. O reynod, a hydrogen bomb won't do the trick! I'd go with a low yield, run in the mill A-bomb from the early 50's and drop it on his house. Perhaps a 10-15 kilotoner would do the trick. If he's got bunkers and such there, they won't last, obviously.

    I'm joking of course. Nukes are a god awful invention that man has no business having.

    Anyways, upon taking in the statements of Libyan ambassador, who has defected and those who have left the country and spoke to the media in Malta and Turkey, things are pretty bad there, no doubt. The big worry is that Gaddafi may move to use mustard gas against civilians, which I think will be the final straw and someone will move in to kill him, i.e. Libyans, the UN, or a coalition of sorts, most likely involving the US.

    I know that sanctions have been laid upon Libya, but as the ambassador said, they won't do squat. Sanctions are a complete joke in the sense that the people suffer- not the leaders. He suggested that the only way to get rid of Gaddafi is to bomb the country's anti-air craft defenses and air fields to keep the planes on the ground (there have been reports of planes dropping bombs on civilians). From there, as reynod mentioned, load a few tomahawk missiles up and take out key installations and move in.

    I agree with COLGeek in the sense that the US shouldn't take the lead here, as we have enough on our plate. But if the UN wants to show that it has teeth, they need to get an international force together ASAP and move in. Either that or send in a special ops team in the middle of the night to deal with Gaddafi. Problem solved.
  7. Bull jsc. These people are fighting and dieing to get something we preach to everybody in the cause of the iraq and afghan war. Whose people do nothing but either sit scared in their houses (with good reason), or try and blow us (military personal, and yes that includes me) up.

    I'm in afghan right now, but I would have no issues with going and helping these people out. I never had or never will have a problem with helping people out that are trying to help themselves. I only have issues when it's "helping" people out that are to lazy or scared to help themselves.
  8. buwish said:
    O reynod, a hydrogen bomb won't do the trick! I'd go with a low yield, run in the mill A-bomb from the early 50's and drop it on his house. Perhaps a 10-15 kilotoner would do the trick. If he's got bunkers and such there, they won't last, obviously.

    I'm joking of course. Nukes are a god awful invention that man has no business having.

    Anyways, upon taking in the statements of Libyan ambassador, who has defected and those who have left the country and spoke to the media in Malta and Turkey, things are pretty bad there, no doubt. The big worry is that Gaddafi may move to use mustard gas against civilians, which I think will be the final straw and someone will move in to kill him, i.e. Libyans, the UN, or a coalition of sorts, most likely involving the US.

    I know that sanctions have been laid upon Libya, but as the ambassador said, they won't do squat. Sanctions are a complete joke in the sense that the people suffer- not the leaders. He suggested that the only way to get rid of Gaddafi is to bomb the country's anti-air craft defenses and air fields to keep the planes on the ground (there have been reports of planes dropping bombs on civilians). From there, as reynod mentioned, load a few tomahawk missiles up and take out key installations and move in.

    I agree with COLGeek in the sense that the US shouldn't take the lead here, as we have enough on our plate. But if the UN wants to show that it has teeth, they need to get an international force together ASAP and move in. Either that or send in a special ops team in the middle of the night to deal with Gaddafi. Problem solved.


    Bu I am referring to the "boosted fission" device commonly used for small tactical nukes and they are very clean.

    Essentially the "pit" is elevated and the package can "insert" up to 15ml of tritium gas into the pit - boosting the yied from 1Kt up to 28 kt - depending on what you want.

    Essentially as the mass of the primary is compressed and begins the fission reaction, the tritium fuses.

    it would not be considered a full hydrogen bomb, as these are three stage devices - Teller/ Ulam devices.

    I am not sure if a peanut thermonuclear package would fit into that taxi either...


    The whole premise is absurd as in reality ...

    We should just get Chuck Norris out of retirement and maybe send Steven Segall to carry his towel, chair, and smokes.
  9. king, unfortunately, all problems cannot be solved by by a large hammer. And the U.S. military is the ultimate in big freakin' hammers.

    Now, once the revolutionaries (and that is what is happening) reach 51% of the population, I have no problem with immediately recognizing and supporting a new government. Until then, it is their revolution.
  10. Good point jsc.

    I hope they sort it out soon so things can settle down.

    There are a lot of frightened women and children over there that somebody needs to consider first ... not last.
  11. Man, I would love it if anti-Gadhafi elements asked Canada for help directly.We would be perfect for them. After we helped them crush Gadhafi's ass, we'd pack up and leave.

    After that, Canada would negotiate a new direct Libya to USA trade agreement with the Libyans, while simultaneously negotiating with
    the USA and OPEC for Canada's natural resource independence.

    Further talks facilitated by Canada between the EU and OPEC, and independent negotiations between Libya (formerly of OPEC) and other oil
    producing nations would mean sweeping restructuring and reform, and stabilization of the current unsustainable monster of a global economy, in regards to oil and gas, anyway. :sarcastic:

    This would promote a more easily managed global withdrawal from our non-renewable natural resources. Humanity is still doomed, of course. The
    epic fail will just be dragged out longer, and be all the more painfull. It's all over in 2161. :hello:
  12. Didn't the US invade Canada ... ??

    Well according to South Park they did ... lol.
  13. Wow...I didnt realize how many pacifists there were out there...

    I think the Libyans need to feel the pain and fight for what they want. But we should not sit on the sidelines and say let the even more weak kneed Eurpeans do something. They wouldnt get involved in in the civil war in their own neighborhood - SErbia/Czechoslavakia. WE had to do it.

    The US is the only true world power right now and we should step up and help out (yes we are declining in power). But we are continually hamstrung by pacifists who want to look the other way when the ethnic cleansing starts. Im sorry, I cant do that. I personally would rather try and die than sit on the sidelines.

    Secondly, we need to quit apologizing for our actions as a country. Get in there as aggressively as we know how, and turn it over the Libyans to run.

    That is part of what made America great
  14. vvhocare5 said:
    Wow...I didnt realize how many pacifists there were out there...

    I think the Libyans need to feel the pain and fight for what they want. But we should not sit on the sidelines and say let the even more weak kneed Eurpeans do something. They wouldnt get involved in in the civil war in their own neighborhood - SErbia/Czechoslavakia. WE had to do it.

    The US is the only true world power right now and we should step up and help out (yes we are declining in power). But we are continually hamstrung by pacifists who want to look the other way when the ethnic cleansing starts. Im sorry, I cant do that. I personally would rather try and die than sit on the sidelines.

    Secondly, we need to quit apologizing for our actions as a country. Get in there as aggressively as we know how, and turn it over the Libyans to run.

    That is part of what made America great

    OK, I'll bite....Which Libyans would you turn it over to?

    Kicking butt and taking names, easy. Forming a new government, extremely hard. Is it worth it in the long run? Maybe.

    Other than the pursuit of liberty and fostering democracy, what is the US interest in Libya, or any of the other nations in the headlines? If we, the US, impose our will and then hand over power to someone in those countries, what have we solved and will those new governments be considered legitimate?

    No easy answers here, my friend. Great discussion though. Thanks! HOOAH!!!
  15. Speaking of nukes, the USS Enterprise (nuclear powered aircraft carrier) and its battle group are on the way to the Libyan coast. At this point I'm thinking it is a threat move- no immediate action. But its presence may be the beginning of a no fly zone enforcement, at the least right now.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1361600/USS-Enterprise-way-Libya-U-S-Navy-repositions-warships-ahead-sanctions-proposed-fly-zone.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

    The Germans and British also sent rescue missions to the Libyan desert over the weekend.
  16. We predicted that move but there must be a second carrier group within 200 nautical miles by now ... call it overlap.
  17. I'm all for staying out of this internal dispute in Libya, but there are 2 things that bother me about it. One, if it is indeed true that Gaddhafi was responsible for ordering the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103, he needs to be brought to justice or just done away with. Personally, I'd like to see him rot in the Hague, as I hear that the accommodations are quite lovely. Two, no one likes to see civilians, much less peaceful protesters slaughtered by the military.
  18. I am sure many in the militaries of the world would like to see civilians of all descriptions being slaughtered. If they didn't history would be very different.
  19. strangestranger said:
    I am sure many in the militaries of the world would like to see civilians of all descriptions being slaughtered. If they didn't history would be very different.

    While you are entitled to your opinion on any subject, I can tell you as a member of the US military, for 26 years, that we will not tolerate those with the behavior you assume many military members have.

    The last time I checked, I work for a civilian and civilians make the decisions for how the US operates and where we will use the military in any of our roles and capacities. In this regard, I strongly disagree with your position.
  20. Oldmangamer_73 said:
    Yes, the last time I checked the military (at least in the USA) is commanded by a civilian elected by civilians.

    Thank you for your service COLGeek! (o7 salute)

    HOOAH!!!
  21. Assume?

    How can I assume something that has happened since humans have been around and formed militaries.

    You don't think militaries including your own have deliberately killed civilians for the heck of it or because they like to kill?

    I would suggest you are being naive. Oh and it is never just a "few bad apples" that do these things in case you feel like suggesting that as a reason.
  22. strangestranger said:
    Assume?

    How can I assume something that has happened since humans have been around and formed militaries.

    You don't think militaries including your own have deliberately killed civilians for the heck of it or because they like to kill?

    I would suggest you are being naive. Oh and it is never just a "few bad apples" that do these things in case you feel like suggesting that as a reason.

    You seem to only focus on the negative. That being said, I respect your opinion regardless of how I feel that you are misguided.

    Humans have done good things since the dawn of time as well. Does that mean we have no capacity to help and to only harm?

    To the Libyan people, you have my respect and heartfelt best wishes for victory in establishing your own democracy.

    Have a great day!
  23. I wasn't arguing whether or not people can do good or not.

    Only saying that there are those that would like to see people slaughtered, which is true enough.
  24. Wait ... didn't you just post this though SS?

    I would suggest you are being naive. Oh and it is never just a "few bad apples" that do these things in case you feel like suggesting that as a reason.

    Either your saying many or most ... or your not?

    Don't worry ... we won't invade Scottland.

    You can keep your windy tundra covered hills and 14 sheep.
  25. What I mean by not being a few bad apples I mean it is not because they as individuals are seperate from the organisations they are in. It is usually something in the make up of the organisation that makes them that way or allows them to do these things.

    There are many that would do these things or at least not stop them if they are done. Many != most though, however the minority does not act on their own.

    The idea that people do not like doing these sorts of things is a joke, under the right circumstances each and every one of us would likely commit crimes like these, we all say we wouldn't but it only take the right environment for it to happen.
  26. strangestranger said:
    What I mean by not being a few bad apples I mean it is not because they as individuals are seperate from the organisations they are in. It is usually something in the make up of the organisation that makes them that way or allows them to do these things.

    There are many that would do these things or at least not stop them if they are done. Many != most though, however the minority does not act on their own.

    The idea that people do not like doing these sorts of things is a joke, under the right circumstances each and every one of us would likely commit crimes like these, we all say we wouldn't but it only take the right environment for it to happen.

    Speak for yourself, my friend. This cynical viewpoint you possess is certainly in the most minuscule of minorities.

    To group folks as you do, into nothing more than organized "thuggery" who relish in doing harm to others and then casting that opinion onto the reputation of the Armed Forces (I have served with many from around the world), is highly offensive to those who wear the uniform.

    May you have an enlightening day and may no harm come your way. Peace be with you.
  27. Looks like a CNN crew almost had a bomb dropped on them today:

    http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2011/03/02/exp.nr.ben.wedeman.libya.bomb.cnn?hpt=T2

    Scary stuff, no doubt.

    According to the Marine commandant, it would essentially take a huge UN contribution to get a no fly zone going over Libya. So who knows what will be done at this point?
  28. COLGeek-

    I, along with many others appreciate and admire your service in the armed forces. My grandfather, who served in Korea, eventually became the state commander of the Illinois American legion and later was on the national board of the AL. His one true goal of such service was to improve the care/support given to veterans via the various veteran affairs organizations (government and private). Needless to say, I'm sure he wouldn't be satisfied where things are today, but it is my hope that his work is making somewhat of a difference.
  29. buwish said:
    COLGeek-

    I, along with many others appreciate and admire your service in the armed forces. My grandfather, who served in Korea, eventually became the state commander of the Illinois American legion and later was on the national board of the AL. His one true goal of such service was to improve the care/support given to veterans via the various veteran affairs organizations (government and private). Needless to say, I'm sure he wouldn't be satisfied where things are today, but it is my hope that his work is making somewhat of a difference.

    Sounds like your grandfather was a HOOAH gentleman and I, for one, applaud his efforts. I am married to a disabled vet and I will retire in a couple of years myself. Much has been done for vets, but the job is far from over.

    Regarding this thread, while I firmly believe in one's right to their opinion, I am against broad generalizations that paint groups with one brush, especially when a negative tone is used to besmirch the efforts of so many. That was my only point earlier.

    That being said, the Libyan people have their hands full right now and I am pulling for them as are many others throughout the world.

    Thanks for the HOOAH words, buwish, I appreciate the sentiment, brudda!
  30. No you are a crazy redneck hilbilly, becasue you are a crazy redneck hillbilly.

    It is funny how people say not to paint a group yet that is what people do with the military for no obvious reason. Ever noticed how everyone is a hero regardless of whether they do anything heroic. If I am cynical what the hell is everyone who puts people on false pedestals.
  31. WW3 if the states gets in there.
    Crazy people in there with money can buy several nukes.
    They have no food but have golden aks.
    I fear the next few weeks.
  32. COLGeek, please also accept my thanks for your service. My father and brother are both former Marines, and my sister flew CH-53s for the Navy during the first phase of the Gulf War. I believe I understand your point of view.
    Personally, I don't see any American RIGHTS (possibly some "interests," but not "rights") at stake here, so I really hope the USA stays out of it. The US Military is not made up of "peacekeepers," but of warfighters. There's nothing going on in Libya that even begins to justify a declaration of war by the US, so we have no business sticking our noses in it.

    Edit: I don't mean to imply that I wouldn't like to see Moammar Gadfly reduced to a burnt-pink paste, it's just not a job to be done at US taxpayer expense.
  33. Pakistan has been a festering sinkhole for American taxpayer dollars probably for decades now, for which no one (other than Pakistani elite) have anything to show.
    I really hope that mainstream Islam is ready, willing, and able to convince the world that it can co-exist; that "Convert, be subjugated, or be slaughtered" is nothing but a gross misinterpretation of the words of their prophet. Otherwise, I find myself becoming uneasy with the thought that Muslims need to renounce their beliefs or face extermination.
  34. Now that's something I would honestly LOVE to see. Being about destruction and death, War is, by definition, a Bad Thing; but, when it becomes the lesser of Evils, it should be pursued as though it were the greatest of Goods. I'm just glad that this one need not involve the US.
  35. Onus said:

    I really hope that mainstream Islam is ready, willing, and able to convince the world that it can co-exist; that "Convert, be subjugated, or be slaughtered" is nothing but a gross misinterpretation of the words of their prophet. Otherwise, I find myself becoming uneasy with the thought that Muslims need to renounce their beliefs or face extermination.

    On what do you base this?
  36. Onus said:

    Edit: I don't mean to imply that I wouldn't like to see Moammar Gadfly reduced to a burnt-pink paste, it's just not a job to be done at US taxpayer expense.

    Right now, the UN is pushing for a no-fly zone over Libya. The only country in any position to enforce that would be us. To do so, we would need to suppress the Libya air defense sites. The OIC and other Arab organizations, while crying crocodile tears over the death of Libyan civilians, regard foreign military (basically, us) action as unacceptable.
  37. I agree taking out the poppy fields would be a great start to resolving some of the other issues.

    Convert those stealth drones for crop dusting ...
  38. They could just fly around and drop beer and skittles for the good guys ...

    That would be a nice change.

    More beer ... that will do the trick.

    Look ... some interesting facts ... Australia, Canada, the UK, and now Germany ... we all drink heaps of beer. Its been peaceful here ... like in the US.

    Nobody is mad enough to attack drunks with guns ...

    Fit drop pods to the jets and get on with it.

    May I also suggest some pretzels, nuts, and possibly rice crackers too ... cater for all of the ethnic diversity of our rebel friends.

    I may be onto something ... what do you think?
  39. Right ... I forgot about that ... though the lack of beer may be the root of that problem.

    See ... beer ... working for world peace.
  40. Yep, it's not an American job. And, if the UN wants it, the UN can pay for it. Yeah, right...the UN produces nothing of value, so they can't pay for squat.
  41. What exactly do you think the UN is?
  42. Exactly. We need to get out of it.
  43. This about the US controlling that oil field imo..
  44. I'll contact my friend at Raytheon and get them to start working on a beer missile.

    This could be a good joint vebture with Fosters.

    We obviously want a low velocity MIRV type system.

    A "one carton" per shot should suffice.

    To be socially responsible it should be mid strength beer.
  45. Ribs and beer.
  46. There should also be a choice of sauce - bbq or sweet chilli.
  47. There is a limit on what the UN can do, as it is not a "war alliance" organization like NATO. If a member nation of NATO is attacked, their motto is "an attack on one, is an attack on all." Plus, NATO has the firepower to back such a motto up. Besides that though, NATO doesn't make diplomatic decisions and sanctions on the level that the UN does. Regardless of the UN's legal grounding, it suffers from a serious lack of muscle and far too much political meddling.

    By lack of muscle, I mean that members nations rarely give the military forces needed for enforcement action. Enforcement action is also limited in the sense that even if an act of "war" is committed against a member nation, there are sovereignty issues involved.

    In short, I agree with many that the UN is a rather pointless organization in today's world. It was designed in a different world, where world leaders were concerned about wars against countries, not civil wars, terrorism, etc... If the UN is going to continue to exist and be effective, it needs a revamp. As part of that revamp one goal would be to get rid of the security council, vetoes, etc...
  48. I would argue it isn't the UN that needs changing, it is as always the member countries that need changing. The problem is that no one will do anything unless it serves themselves. There are times when countries need to act like individuals, unfortunately right now they act like the scum they pretend they want to rid society of.
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