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Wait for Fermi?

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February 6, 2010 2:08:05 PM

Should I wait for the GTX480 or build a system around a GTX260 and upgrade when they are released. Will I be able to use the 260 as a dedicated physix card beside the GTX480?

I will be posting an official help thread soon. I have not researched a computer purchase for about 5 years.

My budget will be around 3K for the box. All other devices are not required.

Thanks

More about : wait fermi

February 6, 2010 2:22:25 PM

You shouldn't be building around an nVidia chip at all anymore. The 5xxx is destroying all of nVidia's cards, and will likely beat out Fermi as well. All tests thus far is showing that Fermi is going to be running very hot. The only reason to wait for Fermi is because prices will likely drop once it comes out.
February 6, 2010 3:24:18 PM

Thanks for the response mavanhel, but it really doesn't address my question.

Do you really believe that nvidias new cards won't be better than the ATI5xxx?
Nvidias reputation would be destroyed if the new cards didnt outperform anything on the market.

So once again:
Should I wait for the GTX480 or build a system around a GTX260 and upgrade when they are released. Will I be able to use the 260 as a dedicated physix card beside the GTX480?

Thanks
Related resources
February 6, 2010 8:02:20 PM

bump
February 6, 2010 8:15:30 PM

Well, first off we won't really know how the Fermi cards are going to perform, if you already have the GTX 260 and are planning to build a rig using that card, I would say build it and then upgrade to the Fermi card or whatever when they come out. If you are thinking of buying a GTX 260 to build with and then dumping the GTX 260 for the new card later (GTX 260 will function as a standalone PhysX card so long as you have an Nvidia card for Graphics unless you get hacked drivers.) then I would wait. Unless you really really want to have a PhysX card which I don't think is worth the extra money, it's only worth it if you happen to have an extra Nvidia card lying around.
February 6, 2010 8:17:47 PM

I would say wait to make your decision untill they are released and you can get some actual benchmark numbers to go along with the hype. But hell, with a budget like that why not just buy a 260 and then get the 480 on release. Might as well wait for Gulftown procs too.
February 6, 2010 8:31:29 PM

Stadius said:
bump


http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-graphics-card,...

Here's the "winners" from THG's latest (January) GFX Roundup
Best Graphics Cards For The Money: January 2010

$50 - HD 4650
$65 - HD 4670 / 9600 GSO
$90 - 9800 GT
$110 - GTS 250 512 MB / 4850 512 MB
$125 - GTS 250 1 GB / 4850 1 GB
$145 - No winner (HD 5750 Honorable Mention)
$155 - HD 5770
$200 - HD 4890
$250 - 2 x GTS 250 / 2 x 4850
$310 - 2 x HD 5770 (HD 5850 Honorable Mention)
$400 - 2 x HD 4890
$410 - No winner (HD 5870 Honorable Mention)
$520 - No winner (GTX 295 Honorable Mention)
$625 - No winner (HD 5970 Honorable Mention)

The only real criticism I have for the article is that it touts the 5770's DX11 capability over the 260 / 4870 which perform 10% betterin DX9/10 while not addressing one key contradiction:

"Great 1920x1200 performance in most games ....While the new Radeon HD 5770 isn't any faster than its older Radeon HD 4870 cousin (we've found that it's even slightly slower in many instances), it does have something the Radeon HD 4870 doesn't have: full DirectX 11 and Eyefinity support. Indeed, while the Radeon HD 5770 doesn't run away with any performance crowns in this category, it does look good from a longevity/value standpoint."

But THG's Dirt2 review says that the 5770 can't do 30 fps once you turn on Dx11 and that game has only minimal incorporation of DX11 features.

Interestingly enough, the 5770 is the only 5xxx category "winner" in the entire table taking two categories in single and Xfire configuration. The key there is not how many nVidia wins (5) but how many the ATI 4xxx series wins (7).

Unfortunately, the 5770's inadequacies have pushed the 260 from a $155 card in November / December to $200 in January. At that price it's just too expensive to recommend. If you need to buy something and can't wait 2 months, your idea of saving the temporary card for PhysX is sound, but I'd grab a single slot GTS 250 and use that.....but i think it's better to wait till end of March to start building.

As for the rest of your build, Intel's new hexacore is supposed to drop match 16th.....that means price drops on older Intel CPU's, new MoBos and , as you suggested fermi drops about the same time. I'm thinking a Rampage III Extreme (when it drops) will be a good choice for your budget. Also, more non reference designs from ATI should hit the shelves along with ATI's answers to fermi at the same time. All in all....all this action should bang down prices.
February 6, 2010 8:32:29 PM

Thanks for the advice. My 4 year old computer with and upgraded 260 died in an apparent powersurge. (while plugged into a brand new power surge protector, i might add)

The 260 survived but since i had a futureshop warranty and they didnt have a replacement on hand I got ALL of my money back (approx $450 CAD) so my original card turned into a futureshop credit... not bad except they dont have the parts i want.

The problem is I am without a decent computer at all. I am typing this on a $200 laptop with keys missing off the keyboard. I really need to buy a computer.

HVDynamo, great advice. But I if it is possible to upgrade to a 480 (or two) and relegate the 260 to physix then the 260 is not going to waste. If thats possible then I might pull the trigger. I will wait if its the smart thing to do, but if I can buy a 260 and then upgrade for the 480 when it comes out and still use a 260 for physix then I may do that.

smoogs12, I dont want to buy a 260 then have a paper weight when the 480 comes out.

Cheers,
February 6, 2010 8:40:29 PM

Thanks JackNaylorPE for your comprehensive opinion. It sounds like with my budget I might be in very good shape if I wait till the end of March. That was my original plan 3 weeks ago when my gaming PC started to smoke. But weeks typing on a cheap laptop has me looking for alternatives. Perhaps I should wait.
February 6, 2010 8:41:24 PM

Stadius said:

smoogs12, I dont want to buy a 260 then have a paper weight when the 480 comes out.


you had mentioned dedicated physics. but i guess now that idea is out.
February 6, 2010 8:45:19 PM

smoogs12, im confused by your response.

Will the 260 be usable as a physix card when I upgrade to one or more 480's?
February 6, 2010 8:58:17 PM

Stadius said:
smoogs12, im confused by your response.

Will the 260 be usable as a physix card when I upgrade to one or more 480's?


yessir
February 6, 2010 9:42:35 PM

Yes, the GTX 260 will be usable as a PhysX card If you have an Nvidia Card for Graphics, so you can go that route. I did mention that back in my post before, but maybe not as clearly. Its only an issue should you decide to buy an ATI card for Graphics and use the Nvidia GTX 260 for PhysX, but there are hacked drivers that will get you around that if you can find them.
February 6, 2010 9:57:20 PM

Today, I am skeptical about the value of a dedicated physix card.

Go ahead, and build what you want around a GTX260.

It is not clear to me if you already have a working GTX260, or you would buy one.

Either way, you can plan on selling the GTX260 and replacing it with the forthcoming nvidia card or whatever.

If you buy, get an EVGA card because you might be able to use their step-up program within 90 days.

I would be very surprised if Nvidia did not announce a card that surpasses ATI's best. If it is significantly better, be prepared to pay top dollar for the top of the line model.

Because it is a new architecture, be prepared for initial driver inefficiencies and possibly bugs.
February 6, 2010 10:58:48 PM

Wait until the 58xx falls in price, after fermi, then buy a 5970 or 5870.
February 6, 2010 11:11:27 PM

I would stay with the Red team if I were you. They have been on top of their game lately...(E.G. Fixing Gray screen probs, black screen probs on cold boots, etc.) with there 5800 serious and other dx11 cards
February 6, 2010 11:36:59 PM

Quote:
I would stay with the Red team if I were you.


It has been at least 4 years since i researched a computer purchase. Who is "the red team"? ATI maybe?

For what it is worth I plan on buying nvidia. I had a bad experience with ATI a decade ago and they made an nvidia customer out of me.

February 7, 2010 12:55:37 AM

Stadius said:
Quote:
I would stay with the Red team if I were you.


It has been at least 4 years since i researched a computer purchase. Who is "the red team"? ATI maybe?

For what it is worth I plan on buying nvidia. I had a bad experience with ATI a decade ago and they made an nvidia customer out of me.


I'm an nvidia man myself, but I've got to admit that the new 58xx series are really impressive. Not sure what Fermi will bring to the table in terms of gaming performance quite yet, but if nothing else at least it will bring down the prices of the ati offerings. If i were you i would consider something on the upper end of the ati line up in case Fermi turns out to be a bust.
February 7, 2010 2:39:55 AM

Some say wait for 58xx prices to go down. That won't happen soon. They are already priced aggressively. If Nvidia produces a card that trunps the 5970, then they will want a big price for it. ATI will not need to lower prices to compete. In general, you mostly get what you pay for excepting the highest performing card or cards that are in short supply.
February 7, 2010 6:39:49 AM

Stadius said:
Thanks for the advice. My 4 year old computer with and upgraded 260 died in an apparent powersurge. (while plugged into a brand new power surge protector, i might add)

The 260 survived but since i had a futureshop warranty and they didnt have a replacement on hand I got ALL of my money back (approx $450 CAD) so my original card turned into a futureshop credit... not bad except they dont have the parts i want.

The problem is I am without a decent computer at all. I am typing this on a $200 laptop with keys missing off the keyboard. I really need to buy a computer.

HVDynamo, great advice. But I if it is possible to upgrade to a 480 (or two) and relegate the 260 to physix then the 260 is not going to waste. If thats possible then I might pull the trigger. I will wait if its the smart thing to do, but if I can buy a 260 and then upgrade for the 480 when it comes out and still use a 260 for physix then I may do that.

smoogs12, I dont want to buy a 260 then have a paper weight when the 480 comes out.

Cheers,


So you still have a 260? It's not credit? Well sounds like you have a big budget which is nice. But since you have no comp right now, I would recommend against waiting for 480 since there are too many question marks right now. I would recommend building a comp with the 260, and save some money so you can upgrade GPU later once Fermi comes out. And at that time if Fermi is a lot better, get Fermi, if not the ATI 5xxx cards should be cheaper and get those.
February 7, 2010 7:32:57 AM

If you want to spend $200 on a graphic card now and later spend like $500 in the other when it releases just buy a 5970 now(when it gets in stock,xD)
February 7, 2010 8:28:06 AM

One thing to keep in mind is that the new Fermi cards are supposed to be really good at task switching. In other words running graphics and physx on the same Fermi card doesn't incur nearly the same performance penalty it does with a 200 series card.

I'm thinking about 2 Fermi cards myself, if the numbers are good. I do hear it's a little hard to get more than two in a box without a serious cooling solution. If it had come out before winter that could have been a "feature".

The thing about ATI cards is that they are starting to rely on too many gpu's all rendering to a backbuffer queue. That's not good for latency. I like that Fermi is back to a single fast gpu.
February 7, 2010 1:16:00 PM

geofelt said:
Some say wait for 58xx prices to go down. That won't happen soon. They are already priced aggressively. If Nvidia produces a card that trunps the 5970, then they will want a big price for it. ATI will not need to lower prices to compete. In general, you mostly get what you pay for excepting the highest performing card or cards that are in short supply.



Rember how the 4870 X2 went down after the GTX 295? Also if you were intested on buying a used card, you can get a 4870x2 for like 250$ on ebay,shipped. Tech always goes down in price over time.
February 7, 2010 6:18:06 PM

My original idea was to build around a graphics card (2xx) that I could reuse as physx when the 4xx comes out. I think the jury is still out on dedicated physx but it could be an excellent use of the recycled 2xx.

I think I should give it a few more weeks. Re-evaluate after some more technical data is (hopefully) released on the 4XX. I would like to go SLI and I will need to cater to power consumption and heat distribution anyway. And there would be no need of that with a 2xx system.

I think I will post a possible build in the appropriate forum in the next few days. I continue to educate myself on the possibities.
February 8, 2010 12:18:03 AM

Meh, Physx isn't worth the 200$ ur gonna waste.
February 8, 2010 12:26:20 AM

I agree Physx may not be worth the $200 but as you may have read I need a computer now. So I figure $200 for a couple of months on the2xx then upgrade and relegate the 2xx to physx.
February 8, 2010 12:37:31 AM

Still not worth it. Just w8 for Fermi. You're gonna pay 200$ for a month of gaming. Not worth it. Wait for fermi, read some benchmarks, then decide wether to 58xx or to Fermi.
February 21, 2010 5:52:09 PM

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvidia-fermi-gf100-gef...

I cant wait another quarter for these products to hit the shelves so after 10 years of nvidia I may have to go ATI.

So, my next questions is, do current motherboards accept ATI and Nvidia cards? Do some MB work better with ATI or Nvidia?

Cheers

February 21, 2010 6:44:24 PM

Uh, all MOBO's can accept single Nvidia or ATI cards, or ATI xfire. However only boards that win Nvidias certification process ( EVGA, lol, or other companies that work closly with Nvidia) can use SLI configeratins. Here's an example of one of those cheap,affordable sli boards.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
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