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First Time Water-Cooling Setup, Help Needed Please

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October 30, 2012 2:24:22 AM

Hey all, I've been browsing through topics on Tom's Hardware and XStremeSystems before finally making a topic here.

I'm hoping to do my first liquid cooling setup this summer and I'm trying to determine the best parts for what I'll need.

A few of the problems I'm facing is that I'm trying to also accomodate for the future aswell (which is know is nearly impossible to do with computers so please bear with me).

If you guys need absoulutely anything else to be able to offer advice/assistance then please let me know.

Alright, the big list:


The sites linked here are where I plan on making the purchase to get the best deal. This list is as much for your reference as it is mine. Exact specifications of the products can be found on these pages.

Outside:

Cooler Master Cosmos II
This is a matter of preference on this case, I looked through many and ended up with a toss-up between the HAF X and the Cosmos II, in the end, I chose the Cosmos II because it had more interior room and I preferred the sleek appearance. It comes with 1x200mm, 1x140mm and 3x120mm fans. All of them except the 200mm and 140mm I will be replacing.

Exterior Accessories:

Aft PRO USB 3.0 Internal Card Reader
I wanted an internal card reader, not an external. I looked at several and the Aft PRO seemed to be the best in terms of features and company customer service.

Pioneer Blu-Ray, DVD Recorder/Writer
Although CDs are slowly becoming obsolete, I wanted a drive that could also function as a high-end movie player (I'll have to get some Bluray drivers). Pioneer is a fantastic brand and I'm confident this will be a reliable and quality player.


Inside: Hardware

Asus Rampage IV Extreme LGA 2011 Motherboard
For a high end build, I wanted a high end motherboard. The Rampage IV Extreme is still amongst the top in high end motherboards while still fitting in an ATX-E standard size.

G. Skill Ripjaw X Series 16GB Pack x4
G. Skill offers a life time warranty on their memory (much like Kingston) however I went with this in part because it more fit the style of the interior setup of the entire system. The money difference is negligible. My only concern about these is the non-standard size so please let me know if you think there would be any clearance/fitting issues with my current layout.

Intel i7 3930k LGA 2011 Hex-Core Hyperthreaded
Since I started looking into building my own system, I always wanted a six-core processor. I was originally going to go with the 3690x until I found out that the 3930k could be overclocked as well. Which was just as good because it was half the price.

Asus Xonar D2X 7.1 Channel Sound Card
A dedicated sound card was needed for my headset, after much researching I stumbled across the discontinued model from Asus. Next to their flagship, this is in my opinion the best sound card ever made by Asus or ROG that also features a stylish casing and light input jacks. I have already purchased this so there is no store link.

Crucial 960GB Internal SSD x2
I'm still a bit undecided on this mainly because of the price however 2TB would be plenty of room without ever having to worry about the need for an external drive. I do plan on getting a SSD in this thing eventually and this price isn't much higher than the 512GB SSD I put into my laptop. Crucial is a good name and I have not had any problems with them. I may just buy one and throw in one of the 3 standard hard drives from my current pc for now. I do not want to go with OCZ.

Nvidia GTX 7xx Flagship x2
Still unannounced and unreleased, when the 700 series of the 690 (flagship of the 600 series) comes out, I will be purchasing two of these and throwing them into my rig with dual SLI, something I have already calculated for in my loop total heat dispersal. Until these arrive my processor should be running icy-cool. Until then I will just be using the GTX 560 in my current rig.

Seasonic 1000W Platnium PSU
A top brand PSU with plenty of PCIe spots, this power supply should last a long time and provide no problems.

Inside: Watercooling

Lamptron CW611 Cooling Controller
The CW611 has 6-channels at 36W each and automatic detection for pumps plus 6 temperature probe connectors and an automatic mode that actually lets you adjust the maximum threshold (so when temperature goes past set level you can set it to go to 80% and not just 100%). It is 3-pin.

Swiftech MCP35X PWM Pump and Heatsink
The use of a fan controller defeats the usage of PWM on this pump (and the fact that very few motherboard fan headers can actually supply enough power without frying). However the MCP35X was a pump I found recommended several times during my research and it simply the MCP35X housing built over/around a Liang pump, the best pump brand one can buy. It uses a Molex 4-pin connector.

Swiftech MCRES Micro Rev2 Reservoir
Picking a reservoir took just about the longest of any of the watercooling components. I ended up finally going with this because the reservoir isn't something you usually show off (unless you go with the cathode helix reservoirs I was looking at earlier -there are pictures further down on this page). The Rev2s small form factor and mounting brackets will allow me to keep it in an accessible area that is still out of the way and to keep it firmly secured at all times. I plan on attaching this directly to the pump.

XSPC AX360 40mm Radiator
This will be mounted above the motherboard in the case. It was a tossup between the AX Series which has a much better cooling factor at the cost of an increase in thickness by 4.5mm and the EX series which is 35.5mm thick compared to the AX 40mm. Both are still quite slim however it would be appreciated if anyone voiced their concerns if it looked like there might be a clearance issue.

XSPC RX240 58.5mm Radiator
This is a full sized radiator. It will be mounted near the bottom front of the case by removing one set of the hard drive docks. It will be working in conjunction with the AX series to provide the total cooling for the system. The fans for each radiator have also been picked to maximize cooling of the radiator based on fan performance.

Koolance CPU 380I Waterblock
LGA 2011 Compatible, this is the new king of the waterblock hill. Mounting hardware is included however there are no barbs, which isn't a problem.

Primochill Primoflex Pro LRT Tubing Red 10ft.
This tubing came highly recommended. Its specifications are 1/2in. ID 3/4in. OD.

EK G1/4 1/2in. ID 3/4in. OD Compression Fittings x12

EK 45Degree G1/4 Adapter x2

EK 90Degree G1/4 Adapter x6
We have 2 for each radiator, 1 so the reservoir can drain into the pump via gravity top-down and 1 for flow into the reservoir.

Bitspower G1/4 Female Female Adapter x1
This will be used in the drain line to connect the tubing fittings to the cap.

Bitspower G1/4 Male Male Adapter x2
This will connect the reservoir to the 90Degree adapter into the pump and the T-Block to the Drain Valve.

Bitspower T-Block
This will be to actually include the drain line.

Bitspower G1/4 Mini Valve
I just saw this and thought it would make a great addition to my drain line, this way I can stop the flow as I take off the drain cap and then open up the valve once the line is actually in the drain container. It eliminates the need to hold the line up higher than the computer while you get everything setup.

Bitspower G1/4 Stop Fitting
This will be at the very end of the drain line.

Bitspower G1/4 Temperature Probe Stop Fitting
This will be very good for getting precise water readings for the fan controller. It will replace the bottom stop fitting in the Micro Rev2.

Monsoon Silver Bullet G1/4 Plug
A little added anti-microbial protection, this will replace the top stop fitting in the Micro Rev 2 reservoir.

Silver Kill Coil
The main silver component of the build. I'll just drop this straight into the reservoir to avoid it travelling to unwanted spots.

Artic Silver 5 High Density Thermal Compound
The best thermal compound money can buy, this came highly recommended from my computer tech friend.

Inside: Aircooling

Enermax T.B. Vegas Trio 120mm Fan x3
These will go on top of the case with the AX360 radiator. Not only will this put them into a prime location to show off the LEDs their lower airflow compared to the other fans I'll be using are better for cooling with the AX radiator. Although they are 4-pin PWM fans, they come with an included adapter so there will be no issues with the fan controller (besides LED intensity :(  )

Scythe Gentle Typhoon 120mm Case Fan x2
THE best fan ever made for cooling according to all the reviews and talk I've seen on this fan. I had to have them for myself. These will be used with the RX240 radiator, their high airflow is perfect for its design for maximum cooling. They use 3-pin connectors.

Coolermaster 80x15mm Case Fan
I needed an 80x15mm case fan for the heatsink on the pump. It was either this or an Evercool. This had better reviews in terms of noise and make.

Other: Cables
Bitfenix 3-pin to 3x3-pin Y-Splitter x2
I'll need these to connect multiple fans to individual channels on my fan connector.


In case all that was hard to follow and make sense of (I'm sure it was!), here's a direct list of questions I'd like to get answers/help on at the moment, this list will probably change as questions get answered and further questions arise.

The List of Questions So Far:

1. Is it necessary to have two loops if you run SLI and have the processor I've selected?

2. Which sized radiator(s) would I need in order to properly cool the water for the number of loops answer to Q1.?

3. Is EK a good brand to work with? I've heard they make quality stuff but how's their customer service?

4. Does the UV light in the Liquid Fusion V reservoir do anything besides being for show? Is there any other information someone can give me on this because after searching for almost a week I still can't come up with much for it besides what is said on product pages.

5. Is the pump I've selected powerful enough to push the water quickly enough to properly cool the components in the cooling loop(s) -provided with a proper radiator.

6. Are the components I've selected usable for a purely distilled water setup? If they are not please let me know.

7. With what I plan on running through my loop(s), what volume of a reservoir should I be looking for so I don't have to be filling it up frequently.

8. I've been seeing recently now that i delve into radiators that the Cosmos II isn't that great for actually housing them... is is possible to put an airplex Revolution somewhere in there without extensive modding?

9. What is exactly "push" "pull" configuration for radiators?

10. Any feedback on the actual hardware components I've posted so far if you think it's something I should know or if you'd recommend something else and for what reason(s).

11. I need around 850-900 of wattage dispersal for my setup. With the Cosmos II I can only fit an EX series radiator because of approximately 25mm of clearance so is there a fan that would be able to provide the necessary airflow and be around 20db or lower that could do that? Or a brand of fans?

12. Is the Scythe Gentle Typhoon as good as of a fan as I've been seeing it is in my research? Personal experience would be needed to answer this.

13. Any feedback and opinions on the HAF X from people who have used it for a full watercooling setup.
eg. space for radiators, how well organised the interior is, airflow.


14. How much effect does airflow from the fan have on the radiator dissipation? When we measure the dissipation, is the airflow of the fan directly related to the fans rpm so if we were to calculate the airflow, we could replace our numbers with that instead of rpm on our radiator performance graphs?

14. If a build that has a eVGA SR-2 motherboard has about 30mm clearance from the top of the motherboard to the roof of the chassis for radiators. If its dimensions are:15"H x 13.6"W whereas my motheroboard is only 12"H x 10.7"W then how much more clearance am I looking at between the roof and the motherboard?

Edit2: All the links should be clickable now (thanks rubix!) and should lead to the correct page.


Thanks so much guys!
a b K Overclocking
October 30, 2012 2:40:39 AM

drop the 3960x for a 3930k, not worth twice the money by any means
October 30, 2012 2:46:02 AM

nna2 said:
drop the 3960x for a 3930k, not worth twice the money by any means


Funny you should mention that. The 3930k was my second choice for both performance and price.

I didn't put it up because as far as I know it can't be overclocked. I guess I'm wrong, no problem in that. I am forsure in the market for a six-core processor though.

Thanks for the feedback. OP updated.
Related resources
a c 149 K Overclocking
October 30, 2012 3:13:42 AM

X and K means you can adjust the multi. :)  Though X is just marketing stuff.
October 30, 2012 2:47:09 PM

amuffin said:
X and K means you can adjust the multi. :)  Though X is just marketing stuff.


Alright, so the 3930k can also be overclocked? Good news!
October 31, 2012 2:21:19 PM

Could someone even just let me know if I'd need two loops and which reservoir to use with how many pumps?
a c 324 K Overclocking
October 31, 2012 2:49:40 PM

Why would you need two loops? And you just use a reservoir and pumps you want...otherwise, I don't follow your questions because you would be the one to answer them and only you would know what you want.

November 1, 2012 2:41:11 AM

rubix_1011 said:
Why would you need two loops? And you just use a reservoir and pumps you want...otherwise, I don't follow your questions because you would be the one to answer them and only you would know what you want.


Hurray an answer from rubix!

The reason I'm asking if I need two loops is because I know that together with the GPUs and CPUs, running them together in the same loop will result in the water being rather warm/hot by the time it reaches the components at the end of the loop.

From many posts I've seen in my research, it looks like a good idea is to have two stand alone loops which is why I asked if this was necessary in my post.

So I guess I'll rephrase my questions (I'll update/add them in the OP aswell)

1. Is it necessary to have two loops if you run SLI and have the processor I've selected?

2. Which sized radiator(s) would I need in order to properly cool the water for the number of loops answer to Q1.?

3. Is EK a good brand to work with? I've heard they make quality stuff but how's their customer service?

4. Does the UV light in the Liquid Fusion V reservoir do anything besides being for show? Is there any other information someone can give me on this because after searching for almost a week I still can't come up with much for it besides what is said on product pages.

5. Is the pump I've selected powerful enough to push the water quickly enough to properly cool the components in the cooling loop(s) -provided with a proper radiator.

6. Are the components I've selected usable for a purely distilled water setup? If they are not please let me know.

7. With what I plan on running through my loop(s), what volume of a reservoir should I be looking for so I don't have to be filling it up frequently.

8. Any feedback on the actual hardware components I've posted so far if you think it's something I should know or if you'd recommend something else and for what reason(s).

This will probably change/be updated as questions are answered and further arise. Aslong as that's okay for me to keep asking questons.

Thanks for everything.
a c 324 K Overclocking
November 1, 2012 3:09:07 AM

You can easily run a single loop- the water isn't going to be warm like you think as long as you plan your loop delta accordingly. A 10C delta means that the water temp stays within 10 degrees Celsius over ambient room temperature when all components are at 100% operating threshold. The more radiator space you have, the better your delta, but delta also accounts for flow rate and fans used on the radiators. Flow rates of 0.75-1.5gpm are optimal for a good delta and as you increase airflow volume over radiators, your delta improves as well.

MCP35x is a very good pump and goes toe-to-toe with the D5 or MCP655 pump. Both offer very good flow and good head pressure. I run a single D5 with a CPU block, 2 GPU blocks, 2 3x120 radiators and a small reservoir...all through around 9 feet of tubing and still get good flow.

1. Are you overclocking CPU or video cards? Regardless, you need to account for the amount of watts being produced at 100% load, or TDP. You can often take the actual listed (or calculated TDP) of a hardware component and assume that 15% of the power drawn will not be expelled as heat waste. I often estimate around 85-90% of calculated TDP will be my 'guesstimate' of loop heat output in watts. Getting more radiator space than you need is called 'over-radding' and means you just run a better delta. Over-radding is a common illness most of us watercooling guys have, you'll see.

2. Once you determine TDP of your components, its as simple as adding those up- CPU + GPU + GPU = 'X' watts Also, your pump will dump 15-20w of heat into your loop, but this is often regarded as negligible and is often accounted for in the slight percentage over-calculation of TDP in the first place.

I would only use EK copper blocks as there have been a lot of issues historically with their nickel plated blocks and their customer service nightmares that ensued. Just ask a few of the guys around here (boiler1990 had an incident that I know of specifically, listed in the sticky). Otherwise, distilled water is great, just don't forget a biocide/antimicrobial to prevent growth in your loop.

Reservoir volume doesn't really matter- more water volume means it takes longer for your loop to reach working equilibrium, but a small res vs. a bigger one is really only a matter of minutes until they both reach the same working temp.

You shouldn't have to continually refill a reservoir at all. Initially you might have to repeatedly purge air and top off the res, but once that is completed and you have a filled loop, you shouldn't have to add water. If you do, you have a leak.

Distilled water can be bought at any grocery store for around $1 gallon in the US. Other places, it's a little more difficult, but other options are available.
November 2, 2012 4:17:09 AM

Alright, so I'm trying to determine the Wattage dispersal I'll need for my radiators. Using the calculator you provided in one of you're stickys, I'm around 1100W (though I assume that'll be higher with the 700 series of GPUs). Looking around I'm seeing mentions of "push" and "pull" setups with "push pull" being the best. I assume this depends on the direction of fans in the radiator?

Now that I'm getting into the radiator components, I'm seeing that the Cosmos II isn't so well designed for the radiators despite its size. Would it even be possible for me to obtain the necessary watt dispersal without extensive modding of the case? Or should I just drop the Cosmos II now and look for another case? If I have to hunt around for some good fans that's fine, I'd like to keep the radiator fans leds since they'd look nice but if I have to hunt for some silent typhoons that's okay too (or whatever fans would work).

Edit: Forgot to say thanks. How rude of me!
a c 324 K Overclocking
November 2, 2012 2:55:44 PM

1100w is a lot...what do you have in your theoretical loop so far? I would have expected something in the 500-600w range, depending on how many video cards you plan to run.
November 3, 2012 8:02:50 AM

rubix_1011 said:
1100w is a lot...what do you have in your theoretical loop so far? I would have expected something in the 500-600w range, depending on how many video cards you plan to run.


I thought so too... In the PSU calculator, my theoretical includes 2 690s SLId.

As a side note, thank you for fixing my links. It should make my post somewhat easier to follow now.
a c 324 K Overclocking
November 4, 2012 12:57:05 AM

Right, but in the PSU calculator it's calculating theoretical load for the entire PC, not just the components you are looking to watercool.

If you are watercooling a CPU, you only account for the TDP of the CPU. If you add GPUs, you then add the CPU TDP + GPU1 TDP + GPU2 TDP, etc.

Typical CPU only loop needs anywhere from 100-200w of cooling ability, depending on overclock and voltage used for clock speeds.

Depending on GPUs being cooled, it's easy to account for each GPU putting out 180-200w of heat at stock speeds. Flagship cards for both AMD and nVidia easily put out 250-300+ watts (single GPU PCBs and dual GPU PCBs).
November 4, 2012 3:22:04 AM

rubix_1011 said:
Right, but in the PSU calculator it's calculating theoretical load for the entire PC, not just the components you are looking to watercool.

If you are watercooling a CPU, you only account for the TDP of the CPU. If you add GPUs, you then add the CPU TDP + GPU1 TDP + GPU2 TDP, etc.

Typical CPU only loop needs anywhere from 100-200w of cooling ability, depending on overclock and voltage used for clock speeds.

Depending on GPUs being cooled, it's easy to account for each GPU putting out 180-200w of heat at stock speeds. Flagship cards for both AMD and nVidia easily put out 250-300+ watts (single GPU PCBs and dual GPU PCBs).


Ya, there we go. Using an estimate as the 690s and with an overclocked 3930k (I pulled the vcore from some other users tests around the web since I don't actually have the chip yet to do it myself), I'm coming up at around 750W as recommended. Since the 700 series will most likely require more wattage, and since that was at stock speeds, does estimating around 850-900 seem more reasonable?
a c 324 K Overclocking
November 5, 2012 1:51:12 AM

Yeah, but don't always assume the next gen cards will demand more power...often, new chip manufacturing processes mean more efficient cards while also more powerful. But, yes, I'd say that at least 700-800w is higher end, depending on how many video cards you will actually run.

200w (theoretical high-CPU overclock)
200w GPU 1
200w GPU 2
---------------------
600w (average, but depends on actual # GPUs used and their actual TDP)
a b K Overclocking
November 5, 2012 5:34:12 PM

Wow wonderfull.

Here is am example of TDP for the last 3 head GTX cards.
680 GTX-195W
580 GTX-244W
480 GTX-250W
a b K Overclocking
November 5, 2012 5:38:07 PM

TDP for x2cores
GTX 690- 300W
GTX 590- 375W
GTX 490- 375W -data might be off on the 490 one only data could find was the prereless version.
November 5, 2012 7:45:27 PM

rubix_1011 said:
Yeah, but don't always assume the next gen cards will demand more power...often, new chip manufacturing processes mean more efficient cards while also more powerful. But, yes, I'd say that at least 700-800w is higher end, depending on how many video cards you will actually run.

200w (theoretical high-CPU overclock)
200w GPU 1
200w GPU 2
---------------------
600w (average, but depends on actual # GPUs used and their actual TDP)


Fair enough, thanks for the confirmation.

I know I don't want to be just borderline dispersal though and lower DeltaT is always good (though I realise it's more of an exponential decline in dispersal where a rediculously expensive rad will only make a degree or so difference).

This brings me to a new dilemma. After looking at countless reviews, I'm seeings that the Cosmos II is -for all its impressive size and cooling chambers- not well setup for radiators at all. Should I look at a different case in order to do a proper watercooling setup? I'd like to stick with the Cosmos II if possible, but if I can't dissipate the wattage then I guess I'll have to.

I've seen on the Cosmos II Liquid Edition article that the XSPC EX series of radiators will fit on the top. However I have no idea what "push" and "pull" setups for radiators mean. I assume this means the direction of airflow provided by the fans though I'm not sure. So if I got an EX series, would I be able to fit standard size 120mm fans above the motherboard?
a b K Overclocking
November 5, 2012 7:58:11 PM

If you not looking for a new case you can always just put a Rad outside of your case depending on the size and or area it may reduce flow a bit but 99% sure it wont be an issue. you may alo want to use quick disconnects on the extremal so it will be easy to clean.

Push pull is fans pushing air in one side, and pulling fans on the other- I dare to say the 99% of the time it not needed and only razes the noise of the system, however people looking for the every degree out of the system and don't care about noise then its not a big deal there also more size issues you may need to account for.

As for you case honestly I am not familer with it and even by looking at photos i cant make a good guess all the sizing have done is for a Haf x.
a c 324 K Overclocking
November 5, 2012 8:00:50 PM

Push/pull means a fan pushing air through one side of the radiator, a fan directly opposite on the other side, pulling the air through. Airflow in push/pull goes in one direction...in one side, out the other.

->-> [fan][rad][fan] ->->
November 6, 2012 4:42:58 PM

Alright well thank you thequn and rubix, that's another question answered.

Now is there a way to tell the total wattage dispersal of a radiator? I know the fans will have a large effect on its effectiveness but I deffinitely need to be able to see the capability of the radiator to be able to properly buy one. I know skinee labs has a comparison chart which is perfect... if the radiator you're looking at is on there. But I'd really like to be able to see the capabilities of an XSPC EX series.

On a side note, I think I'm equally torn now between the Cosmos II and the HAF X since the Cosmos has a solid build and looks very good while the HAF X seems to have better consideration for watercooling and radiators in particular in mind. The HAF X is also quite a bit smaller.

So hopefully someone comes along that has had some experience with the case, I'll keep searching through forum posts and the like on the internet for information on what I can and can't fit with the Cosmos II, but it's seeming like despite all its size, the HAF X might have better upgradeability in the future.
a c 324 K Overclocking
November 6, 2012 4:58:02 PM

The EX series is very comparable to the RX series in a thinner profile radiator (like the older RS).
November 6, 2012 8:32:08 PM

rubix_1011 said:
The EX series is very comparable to the RX series in a thinner profile radiator (like the older RS).


Alright! That's something to go off of.

I found some charts for the RX 360 on skinee. From what I've been reading, the EX series actually performs better than the RX series at higher RPMs with the fans. At a DeltaT of 10 Degrees, and 1800RPM, the RX series can dissipate about 600 Watts.

I guess I could go with a higher rpm fan, was under the impression that the Gentle Typhoon was basically the best around. I'd deffinitely like to over rad though (I think I'm starting to see what you meant earlier :)  ) for performance but mostly so that I don't have to upgrade my cooling components everytime I change a piece of hardware.
November 6, 2012 8:32:21 PM

Any feedback anyone can give on the HAF X would be great though. I know dimension wise they're quite a bit smaller than the Cosmos II, but how's the airflow? Is it degisned well enough you can put an ATX board inside with a full cooling setup and still have plenty of room for one/several large radiators?

I guess then if the Gentle Typhoon isn't all I've been thinking it was, could someone also suggest a good brand of fans that would be suitable for fairely think radiators? If I can't get the wattage dispersal out of the Cosmos II with the EX Series (I think you can put a radiator at the bottom of the case aswell, but I don't know how good that would be) then I'll probably get a HAF X since it looks decent and seems to have been built superior on the inside and throw in a Airplex Revolution.
a b K Overclocking
November 7, 2012 9:50:01 PM

The Haf X mods well I really don't go for looks when making a water cooling system unless that the original goal of the system. To be fair There no computer case that's bad for water cooling even them Tiny Mini ATX cases have some awesomely deigned loops. on the other hand you want to be practical and use up the available space or even use a Rad box or external rad, as for Easy there room for a 3x120/3x140/2x180/2x200 on top the 200/180 will require a little fine tuning to fit. A 140 on the back/ 180/200 on the window 180/200 can fit in front easy if you take off the front plate of the case. There are many other places you can fits mods to make room for rads. Your really only limited by you imagination.

All rads I use are 30mm to safe space and less required mods
November 9, 2012 3:10:18 AM

Alright, thanks thequn! That's a lot to say about the HAF X, and most of it sounds good.

What I really need is some opinions on the scythe GentleTyphoon. Because if I can pair that (or any other fan) with say 2 XSPC EX 360s in the Cosmos (since I've been hearing there's only 25mm or so clearance between the motherboard and the top) then I still will probably stick with the cosmos. So to anyone who stop by (bless you :)  ) here are my questions:

1. I need around 800-900 of wattage dispersal for my setup. With the Cosmos II I can only fit an EX series radiator because of approximately 25mm of clearance so is there a fan that would be able to provide the necessary airflow and be around 20db or lower that could do that? Or a brand of fans?

2. Is the Scythe Gentle Typhoon as good as of a fan as I've been seeing in my research? Personal experience would be needed to answer this.

I'll add these to the OP aswell.

Thanks guys!

a b K Overclocking
November 9, 2012 5:18:05 AM

I have never used the gentle typhoon- so not sure
I dont think you need to worry about motherboard -fan-rad connecting because the rad is much much tinner then your case,

heres a photo if you build with a 480 rad up top
a b K Overclocking
November 9, 2012 5:27:44 AM

its a moded case they addex and extra hole for a fan and longer rad

thats also a Xeon board.
November 10, 2012 4:59:23 PM

thequn said:
its a moded case they addex and extra hole for a fan and longer rad

thats also a Xeon board.


I assume you got that from coolmeister's Cosmos II Liquid Edition:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?278143-Cosmos-II-(Liquid-Edition)

It was precisely this post that got me worrying about the case. According to him the manual says it can fit 2 240s one in the top and one in the bottom.

Looking at his pictures and of where and how he did his modding, it looks like I should be able to get an EX 360 in the roof.

I'd love to be able to get an airplex revolution in there somewhere, but it doesn't look like I'll be able to fit it in the case so maybe an RX 240 in the bottom to get the best of both worlds since the RX outperforms the EX at lower fan speeds and vice versa.

EDIT1: Going into dimension specs on the motherboard he's using, his is 15" x 13.6" whereas mine is only 12" x 10.7"! I hope this first number is the height -it seems for motherboard dimensions, it is custom to list the height first) because then I may be able to get away with some larger radiators on the top!

So if he's got about 30mm clearance with his giant board, how much more clearance would I be looking at with a board 3 inches shorter? I realise that the board would be still centered around the mounting area for the motherboard in the case.

I'll add this question to my op, thanks for giving me this idea thequn!

EDIT2: Fixed some of my math in edit 1, there should actually be more like 30mm clearance, not 25mm.
November 10, 2012 9:52:24 PM

I actually managed to find some pics of a guy basically trying to do what I'm trying to do:
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/case-mods-worklog-gallery/50845-2-360-rad-cosmos-2-a.html

On a side note I'm looking at some review videos and it looks like the area under the top cover above the metal chassis has about 40mm of clearance. In theory I should be able to put an EX series up there then with 3 fans below it inside the chassis in push right?
Can fan airflow directions be reversed? I would assume just turning them upside down would do so. Or would it still be a better idea to have the radiator on the inside with the fans on top? I would think so because the panel for the fan control would be covering the radiator partially otherwise.

EDIT: After watching a few more review videos it looks like I should be able to fit:

*1 slim 360 radiator on the top

*1 full sized 240 radiator on the bottom.

Would these together be enough to provide 850-900W of dissipation?
a b K Overclocking
November 11, 2012 8:26:36 AM

lol where did you get 900w I counted only 550 from the Future-gpu's and cpu. or maybe i just got lost from reading the other forms over the last few days.
a b K Overclocking
November 11, 2012 8:44:09 AM

Yes. I would fallow that's guys lead because you can reference it later if your having issues. + its also saves time to have an idea of what your looking for-

Also Yes you can flip the fans to push air in to the case. that's most likely the easiest part of the build.
November 11, 2012 7:24:16 PM

thequn said:
lol where did you get 900w I counted only 550 from the Future-gpu's and cpu. or maybe i just got lost from reading the other forms over the last few days.


I'm getting that from the two future-gpus and overclocked cpu (I found the wattage using a calculator provided in a sticky by rubix) and allowing for 50-100W leeway.


So what I'd like to know is with a 360-slim rad and a 240-full size, would I be able to get enough dissipation?
Or would even just one be enough?
November 13, 2012 7:20:06 PM

If you're saying 2x 690s 3930k overclocked etc etc I think you might need to add a another 120mm
November 14, 2012 1:51:23 PM

blackdevilmt said:
If you're saying 2x 690s 3930k overclocked etc etc I think you might need to add a another 120mm


3 radiators? Would I need a second pump then or something?
a c 324 K Overclocking
November 14, 2012 2:13:04 PM

Two 360's would be fine- you're talking about 1000w+ of radiators and your loop would likely have 200-250w of head room before you maxed that out. This is why I strongly suggest learning how much radiator space you need based on your components and their planned overclock.

Quote:
3 radiators? Would I need a second pump then or something?

Most radiators are very low restriction, but some of the Aquacomputer and the larger extreme rads like the Nova and Mora are a bit more restrictive. You wouldn't need another pump simply for running 3 traditional rads, your restriction usually hinges on what blocks and how many you use.
November 15, 2012 5:41:12 PM

2019115,36,128669 said:
Two 360's would be fine- you're talking about 1000w+ of radiators and your loop would likely have 200-250w of head room before you maxed that out. This is why I strongly suggest learning how much radiator space you need based on your components and their planned overclock.

I know my actual estimates are going to be off because some of the hardware I plan on cooling doesn't even exist yet, though I can get somewhat close.

Unless you can find some graphs like the ones of skineelabs it's basically impossible to determine what the dissipation of the radiators are though isn't it?

Also, you said that 2 360s would be enough but what about a 240 and a 360 slim? I'd still like some headroom deffenitely. Would I need incredibly high rpm fans to obtain the needed cooling on the 240 and 360slim?

a c 324 K Overclocking
November 15, 2012 6:03:40 PM

I've done all the hard work for you by creating an over-arching average of thermal coefficient in the WC sticky...this should take a lot of leg work out of your guessing and math and leave you with an equation to fill in and get the info you need:

Quote:
I've put together a chart that defines some different cooling properties of common radiators and their cooling potential based on total volume in cubic millimeters (mm^3). The list below is ranked based on thermal coefficient; essentially a product of a radiator's heat in watts for a 10°C delta-T with 2000rpm fans divided by total radiator volume to achieve the average cooling potential of all 15 radiators listed and reviewed by skinneelabs.com/water-cooling-radiators.

This can also be used for a very quick cooling performance estimate for total volume of a radiator based on the average thermal coefficient:


[volume LxWxH in mm]
(LxWxH) x 0.00023129193 = Watts dissipated for 10°C delta-T (estimated)

a c 190 K Overclocking
November 15, 2012 6:52:24 PM

And yes, Uv Lighting in the Fusion reservoirs help keep your loop clean,
Moto
November 15, 2012 7:08:57 PM

rubix_1011 said:
I've done all the hard work for you by creating an over-arching average of thermal coefficient in the WC sticky...this should take a lot of leg work out of your guessing and math and leave you with an equation to fill in and get the info you need:


I don't know why I never saw/used that. Sorry for making you have to repost that again.

Using the forumula your provided, at 2000rpm -which I realise is basically max rpm for case fans and you wouldn't want them running at that high for long- I'd get ~898W dissipation.

That is very close to my 900W goal from before which should leave me plenty of headspace for the unforseeable future and to be able to keep a slightly lower DeltaT.

How much effect does airflow from the fan have on the radiator? I assume when we measure the radiator dissipation at X rpm, we say that because it's easier to find the rpm of the fan than it is to calculate it's airflow at a certain speed?
Basically what I'm asking is is higher rpm better or is fan airflow or are they directly related and higher rpm is essentially higher airflow?

I ask this because now I need to pick out some good performing, relatively quiet and nice looking fans for these radiators.

And before I forget, XSPC is a good brand yes?

I'll also add these questions to the op.

Thanks again rubix!
November 15, 2012 7:12:02 PM

Motopsychojdn said:
And yes, Uv Lighting in the Fusion reservoirs help keep your loop clean,
Moto


Oh my god! Thank you for shedding light on that!

By clean I assume you mean from microbials? Or just standard residue/buildup. Eitherway its good but I'm just curious.
a c 324 K Overclocking
November 15, 2012 7:36:45 PM

CFM and static pressure are what you want with radiator fans. Have you checked out the fan review links in the sticky?
a c 190 K Overclocking
November 16, 2012 6:48:38 AM

I meant that UV helps keep algae from growing in there,
Yes, Xspc are a reputable W/c company, their pumps could be better but most places that do Xspc kits also offer the D5 pump as part of the kits, I have two X20 750L's in my loop though with no problems
the other thing with the LF (T-virus) reservoirs is they look awesome :p 


Moto
November 16, 2012 2:22:24 PM

Motopsychojdn said:
I meant that UV helps keep algae from growing in there,
Yes, Xspc are a reputable W/c company, their pumps could be better but most places that do Xspc kits also offer the D5 pump as part of the kits, I have two X20 750L's in my loop though with no problems
the other thing with the LF (T-virus) reservoirs is they look awesome :p 

Moto


Those reservoirs do look awesome!

How is XSPC in terms of radiators then? Flimsy or feel like quality? What I'm hearing doesn't sound too good about their pumps!

Thanks for all the info the the uv too.
a c 324 K Overclocking
November 16, 2012 3:02:48 PM

Radiators are good, their X20 pumps are really designed for beginner systems.

XSPC does have upgraded reservoir/pump combos that use DDC and D5 pumps which are very good.
February 15, 2013 6:09:58 PM

Alright, I'm nearing the start of my break where I can begin working on this beast.

I think I know what I'm going to be using for the fans in my cooling system but I'll post again when I get a little more on them.

I was looking through the catalogue of products that came with my sound card and saw something that jolted my memory. Something called a Gaming Network Card I think.

Basically it seemed to be a dedicated network card that probably had some other bells and whistles.

EDIT: I don't have access to the catalogue I mentioned at the moment, but I did find another card that is exactly the same sort of thing just by a different manfacturer. The EVGA Killer Xeno Pro Gaming Network Card.

Are these worth it? I realise that overall, internet speed is decided by what I pay my overpriced internet provider but I'm hoping that the card will take the burden of any kind of network calculations the motherboard would otherwise have to perform off its shoulders. Is that the case? What all do these cards do?

EDIT2: After doing a little more reasearch, it seems that the main advantage to these cards is the "offloading" of the network packets from you CPU and their ability to bypass windows networking allowing the packets to reach their destination at a faster pace. I noticed during the reasearch that these cards are good if you are using older networking chips that don't have their own offloading capacity. What I saw coming up often was that newer Intel networking chips offload themselves. The Rampage IV Extreme has an Intel networking ship integrated into the motherboard (Intel X79 to be precise), so I don't think shelling out the money for a big expensive card would even make one tiny difference? Professional feedback/experience/opinions would be greatly appreciated here.

I guess I'll also mention that on a side note as you may have already guessed, I did pick out and purchase the sound card.

The Asus Xonar D2X has been a great card so far offering amazing sound quality and static reduction in a stylish EMC shielded case. Big difference between a dedicated sound card and integrated, wow.
February 28, 2013 3:04:02 AM

Is there really no one with experience with standalone (non-integrated) network cards?

Or is it just that after a certain amount of inactivity without choosing an answer (haven't even completed the thing yet so I still have questions), the topic doesn't pop up that there is a new post/question anymore?
a c 168 K Overclocking
February 28, 2013 3:10:06 AM

I bet there are people with experience and knowledge, but I feel you wont find them in the water-cooling forum. Might wanna create a thread in the Networking forum to pursue this.
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/forum-42.html

It popped up to the top of the forum and that's how I saw it, so I posting on an inactive thread does bring it back up. Iv seen threads dated to 2005 being bumped to the top.

EDIT: Actually reading the question again, I think that does happen. After a while of a thread doing nothing, occasionally the people in it stop getting notifications of new posts. Happens every now and then, probably a bug.
February 28, 2013 4:47:03 AM

manofchalk said:
I bet there are people with experience and knowledge, but I feel you wont find them in the water-cooling forum. Might wanna create a thread in the Networking forum to pursue this.
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/forum-42.html

It popped up to the top of the forum and that's how I saw it, so I posting on an inactive thread does bring it back up. Iv seen threads dated to 2005 being bumped to the top.

EDIT: Actually reading the question again, I think that does happen. After a while of a thread doing nothing, occasionally the people in it stop getting notifications of new posts. Happens every now and then, probably a bug.


That makes sense thank you very much.

I guess I'll need to start branching out more in the forums. I don't know why I thought everything would be able to be answered here.

Also to Rubix since I know you're out there, I'll bet you do know, you're just probably one of the few here. :p 
a c 324 K Overclocking
February 28, 2013 12:27:08 PM

Those high-end network cards really don't buy you anything that you don't already have. Many onboard NICs already have this co-processor and even some lower-end NICs also do many of the same things as these boards. Also, there are some things to look at in terms of QoS (which can be setup and configured in almost every firewall/gateway/router) as packet-type priority. I would advise you to consider ditching the Killer NIC card and spend the money elsewhere. Even if you have local network priority handling with a high cost network card, you are still at the mercy of your WAN connection to every server you connect to in the internet. Just use onboard LAN, or look into some lower cost consumer cards that offer the network stack handling if you really want/need this functionality and check out your router/gateway settings for QoS handling...this would be my recommendation as someone who has a degree in LAN/WAN enterprise network communications.
!