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Cypress Hill?!? 57xx, 58xx 2d problems?

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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February 1, 2010 6:20:30 AM

How many of you are affected by Cypress inability to run 2d games?

I myself dont even see this as a problem? Are reports blown to proportions with this issue or is it hindering your preformance with apps and games?
February 1, 2010 8:06:34 AM

liquidsnake718 said:
How many of you are affected by Cypress inability to run 2d games?

I myself dont even see this as a problem? Are reports blown to proportions with this issue or is it hindering your preformance with apps and games?


The reports are blown of proportion. Don't know why this is happening recently on Toms. ;) 
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February 1, 2010 11:29:44 AM

Some truth in it.
I can not play AOE Conquerers without dissableing all acceleration. Running the game on the cpu only.
Which the game runs fine then,just annoying.
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February 1, 2010 4:12:07 PM

ATI said it's a driver thing and they've been busy with GSOD as it is. 2D & 2.5D accel can/will be added in the future via drivers.

2D accell does sound like it should be fairly easy and I would think setting aside just a few engineers to program these into the drivers would be easy.

I must say, I have no idea how much time goes into testing and fixing bugs for these things, but relative to 3D code, I would think 2D should be cake.
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February 1, 2010 4:17:01 PM

^^ Except when you factor in how specilized 3d engines are, and thats the area that these cards focus on. And given how much the codepath has changed post-XP, its no surprise 2d performance fell through the cracks.
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February 2, 2010 12:02:46 AM

It's interesting to see how much slack they (ATi) have been cut, I wonder if Nvidia would get the same amount of leeway?
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February 2, 2010 12:07:35 AM

Mousemonkey said:
It's interesting to see how much slack they (ATi) have ben cut, I wonder if Nvidia would get the same amount of leeway?


I think it has to do with how few people are effected. You have to be effected before you complain.
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February 2, 2010 12:19:02 AM

bystander said:
I think it has to do with how few people are effected. You have to be effected before you complain.

And some have, only to be told that "a problem exists, but only under certain conditions".

http://www.techeye.net/chips/amd-punter-has-problems-catalysing-things

And then a week later:- http://www.tomshardware.com/news/ATI-Radeon-Gray-Screen-Crash,9529.html

closely followed by :- http://www.tomshardware.com/news/ATI-Grey-Screen-Fix-5870,9549.html
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February 2, 2010 12:25:13 AM

Does this effect zumas revenge! Thats a good point about the lack of comments from the peanut gallery, like the Nvidia jealousy (oops, hatred :) )that goes on here. I guess its a case of Crowe being eaten.
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February 2, 2010 12:53:05 AM

notty22 said:
Does this effect zumas revenge! Thats a good point about the lack of comments from the peanut gallery, like the Nvidia jealousy (oops, hatred :) )that goes on here. I guess its a case of Crowe being eaten.


Just got away notty... your biased and your annoying, we don't need your input.

As for this "problem", I don't think it is all that dire, but it is annoying. I think the reason ATI is getting it pretty easy this time for the problem is that there are no alternatives at this point and wont be for at least 2 more months, so people don't complain because there is nothing else to turn to. 2d acceleration will be added shortly, it is just extremely annoying that they couldn't do that to begin with, but I guess I'm not a software or hardware engineer so I don't really have a say in what could and couldn't be.

To be honest, you have to see how easy people are going on Fermi right now. There are no good credible rumors about it. According to them, Fermi will have nothing more than an in between market place at best, but myself and many others are expecting a bit more. The same thing happened with the HD 2xxx, but who knows what will happen at this point.
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February 2, 2010 12:53:10 AM

notty22 said:
Does this effect zumas revenge! Thats a good point about the lack of comments from the peanut gallery, like the Nvidia jealousy (oops, hatred :) )that goes on here. I guess its a case of Crowe being eaten.

Seeing as people have been RMA'ing cards since October at least, perhaps you're right. [:mousemonkey]

AndreasPersson said:
Looks like Im sending this card back.

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/271963-33-5870-white-dots-flickering
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February 2, 2010 12:57:14 AM

Mousemonkey said:
Seeing as people have been RMA'ing cards since October at least, perhaps you're right. [:mousemonkey]


http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/271963-33-5870-white-dots-flickering


Do you expect much more of a new architecture on a new and troublesome process? A lot of RMAs are going to happen with the 5xxx series and Fermi, there is no way around it. One just needs patience and to understand that there is a price to adopting tech early, and this troublesome process is providing a great example to be sure. An RMA is not the end of the world. I RMA'd some mushkin RAM twice before getting a good kit, I didn't complain because it was based on a new memory chip and had some very aggressive settings, I knew the implications going in. That RAM was amazing by the way, as is the 5xxx series and, likely, as will Fermi.
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February 2, 2010 12:58:27 AM

AMW1011 said:
2d acceleration will be added shortly


Oh c'mon, surely it's not too much to expect from a brand new DX11 card that has been designed and built by superior engineers from a company that cares about it's customers.
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February 2, 2010 1:00:57 AM

Mousemonkey said:
Oh c'mon, surely it's not too much to expect from a brand new DX11 card that has been designed and built by superior engineers from a company that cares about it's customers.


Company's do not care about their customers unless there is money in it. ATI had problems with 2D acceleration, it isn't a huge deal. So then they went ahead and released the cards early to get maximum profit. That is what companies do, they maximize profit.

It sucks, but it isn't the end of the world either.
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February 2, 2010 1:06:04 AM

AMW1011 said:
Do you expect much more of a new architecture on a new and troublesome process?

No, I expect there will be more as GF100 is supposed to have very little or nothing in common with the previous generation, unlike the HD5xxx series which is more of a 4 series on a die shrink with added DX11 than it is brand new from the ground up. And the current issues encompass the 4 series as well and how new is that?

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February 2, 2010 1:13:20 AM

If this problem has roots in the 4xxx series then why are we only seeing major coverage now? It seems odd to me to say the least.

Fermi will likely have about the same amount of issues as the 5xxx series. I realize that a lot of factors point to it having more, but nVidia doesn't seem all that rushed to finish it. I guess I am assuming that some of the extra time they are taking has been well spent by the driver team.
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February 2, 2010 1:16:43 AM

AMW1011 said:
Company's do not care about their customers unless there is money in it. ATI had problems with 2D acceleration, it isn't a huge deal. So then they went ahead and released the cards early to get maximum profit. That is what companies do, they maximize profit.

It sucks, but it isn't the end of the world either.

Considering the flack Nvidia get just for renaming their own products because it hurts the consumer by confusing them and the immoral way in which they keep their IP to themselves not forgetting the way they rip off consumers by charging such a high price for their products, I find it more than just a little amusing that ATi can get away with selling a card that does not appear to have been tested thoroughly enough it seems and can then increase the price of that card all the while waving off any problems that users mention and yet it's all fine and rosy because they are just a company trying to make a buck.
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February 2, 2010 1:17:10 AM

Mousemonkey said:
No, I expect there will be more as GF100 is supposed to have very little or nothing in common with the previous generation, unlike the HD5xxx series which is more of a 4 series on a die shrink with added DX11 than it is brand new from the ground up. And the current issues encompass the 4 series as well and how new is that?



_+1
Its a huge flub up, which part ?, the 2d acceleration or every other card acting up? I'm having a chuckle with the fanboy here giving us his speech,
'I like getting badly engineered products, its to be expected, Thank You sir, May I have another, lol'
edit: I did a refined search with google, this is for the last 7 days only, 235 unique threads found here on this forum.
Results 1 - 10 of about 235 from tomshardware.com for i have a problem with my 5770.
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February 2, 2010 1:21:05 AM

AMW1011 said:
If this problem has roots in the 4xxx series then why are we only seeing major coverage now? It seems odd to me to say the least.

With ATi in the limelight maybe more people are asking questions along the lines of "will I have the same or similar problems with this new 5 series card as I've been having with my older 4 series card?"
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February 2, 2010 1:28:00 AM

Mousemonkey said:
Considering the flack Nvidia get just for renaming their own products because it hurts the consumer by confusing them and the immoral way in which they keep their IP to themselves not forgetting the way they rip off consumers by charging such a high price for their products, I find it more than just a little amusing that ATi can get away with selling a card that does not appear to have been tested thoroughly enough it seems and can then increase the price of that card all the while waving off any problems that users mention and yet it's all fine and rosy because they are just a company trying to make a buck.


The thing you don't seem to see is that, what ATI did has been going on from both companies and MANY other companies for years. But I agree, ATI has gotten the better end of the stick this time. Then again I think the disappointment in nVidia is more of an accumulative thing than based on each incident.

You seem to be quite angry with ATI for some reason. No 2d acceleration sucks, I've said it before, but you do get the best cards on the market for their intended purpose, 3d acceleration. Also increasing prices by $20-$30 doesn't seem all that horrible when the cards are totally unchallenged.

I'm just not quite sure you understand that you are comparing these seemingly bad things to the 3-4 rounds of renaming, PhysX propaganda and mismanagement, cutting support for PPUs, and the delays of fermi. In comparison, ATI isn't doing all that bad.

That said, understand that I am NOT excusing ATI in any way. They screwed up and they took advantage of consumers. However, consumers have to be aware of this or they are not making very informed decisions, and nVidia has pioneered this dirty business. I condemn both companies. My point is that you must take a look at the whole picture, not just the positives or negatives.
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February 2, 2010 1:31:30 AM

Mousemonkey said:
With ATi in the limelight maybe more people are asking questions along the lines of "will I have the same or similar problems with this new 5 series card as I've been having with my older 4 series card?"


I suppose it is certainly possible, but if these problems exist in the capacity and number we are lead to believe then I have a hard time seeing it as more than media hype. If there are large number of 4xxx series cards with the same problems and the same cause, then those cards are faulty and there is no driver problem. This would mean an RMA should solve the problem as even bad GPU warranties are two years, this can be good or bad news depending on how you see it.

I'm just not convinced. I wasn't convinced with the nVidia faulty mobile GPU "epidemic" either.
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February 2, 2010 1:36:05 AM

notty22 said:
_+1
Its a huge flub up, which part ?, the 2d acceleration or every other card acting up? I'm having a chuckle with the fanboy here giving us his speech,
'I like getting badly engineered products, its to be expected, Thank You sir, May I have another, lol'
edit: I did a refined search with google, this is for the last 7 days only, 235 unique threads found here on this forum.
Results 1 - 10 of about 235 from tomshardware.com for i have a problem with my 5770.


I said time and time again that I condemn ATI for this, why wont you go away and troll somewhere else!?

I did a refined search with google for the last month for problem with my GTX 285 and I got:
Quote:
Results 1 - 10 of about 455 from tomshardware.com for problem with my gtx 285.


In the past year:

Quote:
Results 1 - 10 of about 27,200 from tomshardware.com for problem with my gtx 285.


Not so bad now is it? And that is a far older and more mature card.
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February 2, 2010 1:43:59 AM

AMW1011 said:
I wasn't convinced with the nVidia faulty mobile GPU "epidemic" either.

But many were (enough for a petition and/or lawsuit) and I'm not angry at ATi nor Nvidia as I have understood for many years that corporations are just out to make money, but unlike some I'm not going to blow smoke up either of their asses and as such why should I ignore negative articles about one when so many are quick to point to negative articles about the other?
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February 2, 2010 1:44:53 AM

A good example of a troll is AMW1011, even in his backwards hypocritical babble about ATI's current problems, he can't finish a sentence without spewing his Nvidia rants. What does Nvidia have to do with ATI finally announcing a problem with the 5 series only after THG calls them on it.
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February 2, 2010 1:47:07 AM

Mousemonkey said:
Considering the flack Nvidia get just for renaming their own products because it hurts the consumer by confusing them and the immoral way in which they keep their IP to themselves not forgetting the way they rip off consumers by charging such a high price for their products, I find it more than just a little amusing that ATi can get away with selling a card that does not appear to have been tested thoroughly enough it seems and can then increase the price of that card all the while waving off any problems that users mention and yet it's all fine and rosy because they are just a company trying to make a buck.


There is a big difference from someone trying to renaming the same architecture which looks like deliberate decieving of their customers, and having a bug they are trying to work out.

I personally have bought a lot of Nvidia cards over the years, probably 2-3 times as many as ATI, but I do have to admit that some of their deciet pisses me off. At least be honest and play fair.

Pricing is simply a matter of supply and demand. And I haven't seen any difference in flack about either card in this department.
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February 2, 2010 1:49:20 AM

AMW1011 said:
I said time and time again that I condemn ATI for this, why wont you go away and troll somewhere else!?

I did a refined search with google for the last month for problem with my GTX 285 and I got:
Quote:
Results 1 - 10 of about 455 from tomshardware.com for problem with my gtx 285.


In the past year:

Quote:
Results 1 - 10 of about 27,200 from tomshardware.com for problem with my gtx 285.


Not so bad now is it? And that is a far older and more mature card.

'problem with my hd 5850' returns 98,400 results and it isn't half as old as the 285 but does that mean it's three times as problematic?
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February 2, 2010 1:53:45 AM

Mousemonkey said:
'problem with my hd 5850' returns 98,400 results and it isn't half as old as the 285 but does that mean it's three times as problematic?

I wasn't trying to prove anything more than his search results to be unprovable. Also we were going by Tomshardware.com only.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=problem+with+my+...

As you can see there is still a difference.

I'm not saying the GTX 285 is bad or inferior to anything in reliability, I'm saying that notty can not prove anything by his google search.
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February 2, 2010 1:54:44 AM

Mousemonkey said:
But many were (enough for a petition and/or lawsuit) and I'm not angry at ATi nor Nvidia as I have understood for many years that corporations are just out to make money, but unlike some I'm not going to blow smoke up either of their asses and as such why should I ignore negative articles about one when so many are quick to point to negative articles about the other?


My stance is a wait and see. I have not ignored any negative articles, I have expressed doubt but I have not dismissed anything. We need more than media coverage to show anything.
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February 2, 2010 1:55:24 AM

bystander said:
There is a big difference from someone trying to renaming the same architecture which looks like deliberate decieving of their customers, and having a bug they are trying to work out.

I personally have bought a lot of Nvidia cards over the years, probably 2-3 times as many as ATI, but I do have to admit that some of their deciet pisses me off. At least be honest and play fair.

Pricing is simply a matter of supply and demand. And I haven't seen any difference in flack about either card in this department.

Granted the 8800's to 9800's made no sense and the slew of cards that became some sort of 9600GT/GSO was a debatable method of reducing the older G80 stock but the GTX+ to GTS250 did have some sort of sense to it, so what were the others again?
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February 2, 2010 1:58:01 AM

notty22 said:
A good example of a troll is AMW1011, even in his backwards hypocritical babble about ATI's current problems, he can't finish a sentence without spewing his Nvidia rants. What does Nvidia have to do with ATI finally announcing a problem with the 5 series only after THG calls them on it.


Why don't you quit the personal insults and find some facts and talking points to combat mine?

I haven't said anything derogatory towards nVidia besides commenting on someones else' comparison with nVidia. I never brought up nVidia and I certainly never ranted. The only time nVidia came up was when MM commented on the differing attitudes towards the companies and I tried to explore the reasons.

Again, you aren't good at arguing, you apparently don't know the meaning of the term fact, and you can't post without sounding like a troll, albeit an unsuccessful one.
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February 2, 2010 2:03:00 AM

Mousemonkey said:
Granted the 8800's to 9800's made no sense and the slew of cards that became some sort of 9600GT/GSO was a debatable method of reducing the older G80 stock but the GTX+ to GTS250 did have some sort of sense to it, so what were the others again?


8800 GT > 9800 GT

8800 GTS 512 > 9800 GTX > 9800 GTX+ > GTS 250

8800 GSO > 9600 GSO

Those are the main culprits, not all that menacing in my opinion, more annoying than anything. However this is inexcusable (In a comedic way, because some people are too stubborn to read between the lines):

G210 > G310

If you look at the mobile space, the G310 is marketed as a high end component, or at least it seems to be with pricing.

Regardless, the renaming thing was over-the-top, but not overly malicious.
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February 2, 2010 2:14:30 AM

AMW1011 said:
8800 GT > 9800 GT

8800 GTS 512 > 9800 GTX > 9800 GTX+ > GTS 250

8800 GSO > 9600 GSO

Those are the main culprits, not all that menacing in my opinion, more annoying than anything. However this is unexcusable:

G210 > G310

If you look at the mobile space, the G310 is marketed as a high end component, or at least it seems to be with pricing.

Regardless, the renaming thing was over-the-top, but not overly malicious.

more fail.
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February 2, 2010 2:18:39 AM

Guys seriously, they (ATI and NVidia) both fail.

NVidia has been failing at their hardware recently and ATI at their drivers.

ATI seems to have some serious driver issues on their hands (though fortunately I am not affected) and are worse at making up excuses and pointing fingers than Toyota. Hopefully they will get around to fixing them soon since Toms and others were nice enough to shove it in their face.
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February 2, 2010 2:19:02 AM

AMW1011 said:
8800 GT > 9800 GT

8800 GTS 512 > 9800 GTX > 9800 GTX+ > GTS 250

8800 GSO > 9600 GSO

Those are the main culprits, not all that menacing in my opinion, more annoying than anything. However this is unexcusable:

G210 > G310

If you look at the mobile space, the G310 is marketed as a high end component, or at least it seems to be with pricing.

Regardless, the renaming thing was over-the-top, but not overly malicious.

For starters you were the first to accuse of trolling so steady on with that and the 310 is quite clearly stated as being an OEM part and as such the retail version is the 210 and as you can't walk into best buy or pc world and buy a 310 why can't they have an OEM line up and a retail line up?
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February 2, 2010 2:24:07 AM

Oh and here is some evidence of the problems going back to 'some' 4 series cards.
It seems Apple just released a 'new' attempt fix for 'screen flickering'
http://www.macworld.com/article/146067/2010/02/imac_fli...
That update applied to the graphics firmware on the ATI Radeon HD 4670 and 4850 graphics cards found in the 27-inch iMacs released in late 2009.
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February 2, 2010 2:31:51 AM

That flickering thing really baffles me. I tried to help some mac people with it but was stumped. I do however have 2 4850s (and 2 identical 4650s) from 2 different brands and eras and all are fine. Hard to say who is at fault there, mac or AMD.
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February 2, 2010 2:35:56 AM

The fact that any company still has major issues with drivers in 2010 is appalling at best. I don't know why I spend money on a video card to partially fund the salaries for these developers. They should cut the cost of the cards, release all the details to the community, and let the people who can code do it right.
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February 2, 2010 3:03:44 AM

Unolocogringo said:
Some truth in it.
I can not play AOE Conquerers without dissableing all acceleration. Running the game on the cpu only.
Which the game runs fine then,just annoying.

A friend of mine can't seem to run AOE either and he has a ATI 4670 so it seems the 2d problems are not limited to the 5xxx series.
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February 2, 2010 3:23:35 AM

Mousemonkey said:
Granted the 8800's to 9800's made no sense and the slew of cards that became some sort of 9600GT/GSO was a debatable method of reducing the older G80 stock but the GTX+ to GTS250 did have some sort of sense to it, so what were the others again?


The other bad taste moves were to have the Ageia PPU's no longer work in the presence of an ATI card, even though they were bought with the idea of running them with one, as well as with all nvidia cards with physx.
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February 2, 2010 3:34:12 AM

They will get no money from Aegia cards that have already been sold and like ATi they are a business that exist to make money not help their competitor so why sell one card when you can sell two and not have to put any resources into sorting out any issue that may arise from your competitors product being present in the system?
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February 2, 2010 3:40:13 AM

Mousemonkey said:
They will get no money from Aegia cards that have already been sold and like ATi they are a business that exist to make money not help their competitor so why sell one card when you can sell two and not have to put any resources into sorting out any issue that may arise from your competitors product being present in the system?


Frankly, as a business move, I find it likely to be hurting their pockets. Think about it for a minute. If they can sell physX cards to ATI users, they gain some extra money from the physX card purchase. They also make physX more popular so that developers will be more apt to develope for it. Now more ATI users buy physX cards, and maybe even change to Nvidia cards on their next purchase.

Not allowing Nvidia cards to work with an ATI card is slowing down the physX market, and taking away money they could otherwise be making.
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February 2, 2010 3:56:01 AM

bystander said:
Frankly, as a business move, I find it likely to be hurting their pockets. Think about it for a minute. If they can sell physX cards to ATI users, they gain some extra money from the physX card purchase. They also make physX more popular so that developers will be more apt to develope for it. Now more ATI users buy physX cards, and maybe even change to Nvidia cards on their next purchase.

Not allowing Nvidia cards to work with an ATI card is slowing down the physX market, and taking away money they could otherwise be making.

And they would also open themselves up to the possibility of problems like the current drivers and the 5 & 4 series cards are having, being blamed on them.
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February 2, 2010 4:00:36 AM

Closed source and proprietary software is the issue here. It will always be an issue until dinosaur companies stop trying to own everything, hurting the consumer.
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February 2, 2010 4:09:25 AM

randomizer said:
Closed source and proprietary software is the issue here. It will always be an issue until dinosaur companies stop trying to own everything, hurting the consumer.

As long as we live in a dog eat dog world that is the way it will be my friend, sad but true IMHO.
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February 2, 2010 4:26:06 AM

Even Google, which was created to be against this sort of business model, has turned into a dinosaur faster than every other company ever managed. They are the same as MS, Apple, NVIDIA, ATI, Intel, AMD, <insert almost any corporation>, etc.
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February 2, 2010 4:43:24 AM

Make money to pay shareholders then make more money so that you can pay shareholders, rinse and repeat ad infinitum. Business model 101 IMHO. :lol: 
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February 2, 2010 5:01:13 AM

Yep, great stuff.
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February 2, 2010 9:44:13 AM

Mousemonkey said:
For starters you were the first to accuse of trolling so steady on with that and the 310 is quite clearly stated as being an OEM part and as such the retail version is the 210 and as you can't walk into best buy or pc world and buy a 310 why can't they have an OEM line up and a retail line up?


I specifically stated that I was talking in the mobile space.

G210:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=P...

G310:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=P...

I also stated that I thought it was more annoying than malicious. I'm not sure what you are arguing against, but putting words in my mouth is only a viable solution when your interpretation is not the complete opposite of the true meaning.

And as the record goes I called notty a troll, who is a troll. You call me biased, but notty isn't to you? Even though he has an undying love for nVidia and hatred for ATI. Yeah my moderate view is so biased! How dare I see both sides!
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February 2, 2010 9:46:25 AM

notty22 said:
more fail.


Yep giving nVidia the pass on something a lot of people give them flack for is definitely fail, right? Yep supporting nVidia is SO fail, right notty?

Perhaps it should be troll fail...
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February 2, 2010 10:00:05 AM

AMW1011 said:
I specifically stated that I was talking in the mobile space.

G210:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=P...

G310:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=P...

I also stated that I thought it was more annoying than malicious. I'm not sure what you are arguing against, but putting words in my mouth is only a viable solution when your interpretation is not the complete opposite of the true meaning.

And as the record goes I called notty a troll, who is a troll. You call me biased, but notty isn't to you? Even though he has an undying love for nVidia and hatred for ATI. Yeah my moderate view is so biased! How dare I see both sides!

I consider laptops to be OEM products as I cannot go and buy a new GPU to upgrade one with in the same way I can with a desktop, and at what point did I say or infer that either of you were showing bias?
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!