LCD refresh rate in gaming - 60hz vs. 75hz ?

[olkka]

Hello!

I just ordered myself the new 24" BenQ G2420HDBE Full HD monitor which has recieved many good reviews from users. Got it for a real bargain price in Finland, only 165 € ~ $230.
It has 5ms and 60hz and my old Samsung SyncMaster 940B has 8ms and 75hz (no visible ghosting though)!

So,

is there any notable difference - in gaming, movies, common usage etc. - between new 60hz and 75hz screens?


Thanks!

 

[RealityRush]

Image wise, not really, although if you kinda look out of the corner of your eye at a 75Hz you wont see the flicker you get with a 60Hz.

Some people get tired eyes at 60Hz though for whatever reason and need a higher refresh rate.

 

[Upendra09]

not the 75 hz, that will give you a faster refresh rate

but the 5 ms, will give you better, faster feedback on games

 

[olkka]

RealityRush:

I thought the flickering was only with the old CRT monitors that use totally different technology? I indeed remember getting my eyes tired with my 10 years old CRT monitor.

Upendra09:

Yeah, 5ms response time should not leave any ghosting.


But still, what is the biggest difference in LCD screens in 60hz and 75hz? I have hear that in motion, the bigger hz, the better picture in movement? But is there any notable difference 60hz vs. 75hz?

 

[nau4nik]

you will notice the difference only if you have realy traned eyes

 

[strangestranger]

Yes, there is no flicker with LCD's or there shouldn't be. Whilst the images still have to be sent to the monitor like they always have the LCD's are continually lit so unless the backlight flickers you shouldn't notice anything.

Also, refresh rates are useless as it is physically impossible for a lcd monitor to maintain a constant fps even from one part of the screen to another due to the response time variance of the crystals themselves.

 

[bystander]

Again, as mentioned, LCD's are solid state and never flicker. The difference between 60Hz and 75Hz is that you can have 75 frames displayed per second instead of a max of 60. More frames is generally smoother, but most won't noticed the difference. After 50+ FPS, it feels pretty comfortable.

 

[nau4nik]

Again, as mentioned, LCD's are solid state and never flicker. The difference between 60Hz and 75Hz is that you can have 75 frames displayed per second instead of a max of 60. More frames is generally smoother, but most won't noticed the difference. After 50+ FPS, it feels pretty comfortable.

well sed

 

[RealityRush]

I thought the flickering was only with the old CRT monitors that use totally different technology? I indeed remember getting my eyes tired with my 10 years old CRT monitor.

Yeah, sorry I wasn't specific, CRT's used to flicker, LCDs don't.

But still, what is the biggest difference in LCD screens in 60hz and 75hz? I have hear that in motion, the bigger hz, the better picture in movement? But is there any notable difference 60hz vs. 75hz?

For the majority of the population there is no noticable difference. 60Hz is generally the fastest people can see, beyond that it wont matter to their eyes. Some people I'm sure can see faster, but not by much, I doubt even close to a whole 15Hz.

On moving pictures, it makes a small difference, but barely any because again, our eyes are used to blurring as we turn, 75Hz would barely just make it slightly less blurry to our eyes.

120Hz and 240Hz TV's are advertised by Sony a lot for their "improved motion image", but honestly, the only reason to get a 120Hz one is for 3D viewing, not even sure why you would need 240Hz........... 5D viewing?

 

[sabot00]

You'll only notice 75Hz if your graphics card can drive that or videos are in 75FPS.

 

[festerovic]

RealityRush-
The 120mhz 240mhz thing is basically done to add extra, computer generated frames to the picture. This is done to smooth out moving images. It has nothing to do with 3d, BTW. In opposition to what you said, there is definitely a reason to get 120mhz tvs, however, I think most people would be hard pressed to see the difference between 120 and 240.

Think of it the same way that DVD upscaling works- the DVD is the same, but the chip in the player makes it "better" by using more resolution to increase the quality of the picture.

 

[RealityRush]

RealityRush-
The 120mhz 240mhz thing is basically done to add extra, computer generated frames to the picture. This is done to smooth out moving images. It has nothing to do with 3d, BTW. In opposition to what you said, there is definitely a reason to get 120mhz tvs, however, I think most people would be hard pressed to see the difference between 120 and 240.

Think of it the same way that DVD upscaling works- the DVD is the same, but the chip in the player makes it "better" by using more resolution to increase the quality of the picture.

No, 120Hz is a requirement for 3D.

Because it is essentially drawing 2 frames for every 1 frame on a 60Hz picture.

 

[strangestranger]

Except of course you need a monitor that has a maximum response time of 8ms.

 

[sabot00]

No, it is not a requirement for 3D, a 8400GS will run Crysis, just as a 60Hz screen will run 3D, it is a recommendation.

 

[strangestranger]

8400gs running crysis, blasphemy!!

 

[sabot00]

My 7300GT ran Crysis. 8400GS > 7300GT.

 

[strangestranger]

Lies!!!! Lies!!!!

Only kidding, did you use it as a slide show presentation?

 

[RealityRush]

No, it is not a requirement for 3D, a 8400GS will run Crysis, just as a 60Hz screen will run 3D, it is a recommendation.

..... are you going to really watch a motion picture 3D movie at 30Hz........ that'll be fantastic looking I'm sure....

It's essentially a requirement unless you want to watch Avatar as a slide show instead of real-time.

 

[kylelively]

There are a lot of misconceptions about how many Frames Per Second (FPS) the human eye can perceive. I've seen arguments in these forums and other places where people say anything above 30 or 50 or even 60fps is a "waste", or isn't really noticeable. I guess these are all ways of justifying low framerates in games, but I found this article which explains this a bit more logically and factually Human Eye Frames Per Second. It's worth a read to clear up all the misconceptions.
Quote:
The overwhelming solution to a more realistic game play, or computer video has been to push the human eye past the misconception of only being able to perceive 30 FPS. Pushing the Human Eye past 30 FPS to 60 FPS and even 120 FPS is possible, ask the video card manufacturers, an eye doctor, or a Physiologist. We as humans CAN and DO see more than 60 frames a second.

Thus, the big misconception that our eyes can only see 30 frames or 60 frames per second is purely due to the fact that the mainstream displays can only show this, not that our eyes can't see more. For the time being, the frames per second capable of any display device isn't even close to the phrase "more than meets the eye".

In terms of practical things we can do, I recommend that you:

- Make sure you use a refresh rate fix in WinXP so that your monitor runs at its maximum refresh rate and not 60Hz (which is terrible for the eyes). A good one for both Nvidia and ATI cards is Refresh Force.

- Set Vsync On. When Vsync is Off you may gain a few fps but the tearing is noticeable even on the best displays. This is because the monitor is limited in how many fps it can display at particular resolutions, so any higher and you're really seeing parts of images at 90fps for example, not the whole image.

- If there is a MaxFPS line in the ini file for your game then set it to your monitor's refresh rate. This seems to help reduce fps spikes and provide much less jerky/stuttery gameplay. By capping your FPS in the game engine to your refresh rate, along with Vsync on, you get less tearing but more importantly you get smoother fps. Setting a high MaxFPS is a placebo...it doesn't seem to improve performance as is often thought and in fact often results in more stuttering not caused by disk activity.

Link to the source . . .

http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showthread.php?t=207135

The link to the second article ...

http://amo.net/NT/02-21-01FPS.html

 

[bystander]

Just a note about your wall of text. We are refering to LCD's. So the flickering, and strain at 60Hz is not present, as was posted.

Also keep in mind, your video card has to be able to deliver 75 FPS in order for you to take advantage of the 75Hz.

But ya, we humans see far more than 60 FPS, but depending on the situation, our concious mind may not be able to notice the difference, but other times it will.

For most people, having more than 40 fps is comfortable. I prefer 50+.

 

[kylelively]

Its an informational post. No need to bomb on it.

 

[bystander]

Its an informational post. No need to bomb on it.

I just wanted to make sure that the difference between the CRT and LCD was noted. They have a very different effect on the eyes.

 

[Guest]

Yeah,the difference is that LCD will tire your eyes easilly more than CRT.
Just ask any eye doctor,there are more people with eye problems now with LCD than there were with the CRT.

 

[gamerk316]

No, 120Hz is a requirement for 3D.

Because it is essentially drawing 2 frames for every 1 frame on a 60Hz picture.

TV's use interpolation to create 120 frames from a 60 frame source; most are not capable of receiving the 120 frames needed by current 3d implementations [3d vision, etc].

And no, 120Hz certainly isn't a necessity; you could do 3d using 30 hz for each eye instead if you really wanted to...

 

[mactronix]

Hello!

I just ordered myself the new 24" BenQ G2420HDBE Full HD monitor which has recieved many good reviews from users. Got it for a real bargain price in Finland, only 165 € ~ $230.
It has 5ms and 60hz and my old Samsung SyncMaster 940B has 8ms and 75hz (no visible ghosting though)!

So,

is there any notable difference - in gaming, movies, common usage etc. - between new 60hz and 75hz screens?


Thanks!

The whole thing as with most things concerning displays is going to be 100% subjective. Everything from brightness to colour depth to richness of blacks etc really the list is never ending but each person will have a different preference. Some will agree some will argue that something matters and others will call them silly for thinking so.

Technically I wouldnt say you had thing 1 to worry about.

Mactronix