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Is this good enough for starting with WC? ^^

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  • Water Cooling
  • Gtx
  • GPUs
  • Overclocking
  • Product
Last response: in Overclocking
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November 4, 2012 6:35:35 PM

I did research the ENTIRE Sunday. LITERALLY.


I came up with this:

Radiator: XSPC RX360
Res+Pump Combo: Swiftech Maelstrom w/ MCP35x pre-installed
Fans: 3x Scythe Gentle Typhoon
CPU Block: XSPC RayStorm
GPU Block: Koolance VID-NX680 for GTX 680
GPU Backplate: EVGA Backplate for GTX 680
Tubing: Primoflex LRT Black 3/8 ID / 5/8 OD
Coolant: Distilled Water+PT Nuke
Fittings: XSPC 3/8 ID 5/8 OD Black-Nickel Compressed Fittings


Is that everything I need? A good set?

The total is about $525 before shipping.

More about : good starting

a c 337 K Overclocking
November 5, 2012 1:16:28 PM

Don't necessarily think you need the backplate other than for looks.

Pretty decent setup, but you could go cheaper, depending on what you decide for on tubing and fittings:

EX 360 kit w/D5 pump

And simply add your GPU block, but this is just an option...not necessarily performance difference as a D5 and MCP35x are very close in flow and head. RX and EX rads also perform very similarly. CPU block is the same- Raystorm.

Can you add links to your list so we can compare pricing? I think you have a very good grasp on what you want, just wanted to see if there are any other options out there that can trim some cost for you (if desired).

Nice work, you're on the right track here.
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November 5, 2012 3:53:06 PM

rubix_1011 said:
Don't necessarily think you need the backplate other than for looks.

Pretty decent setup, but you could go cheaper, depending on what you decide for on tubing and fittings:

EX 360 kit w/D5 pump

And simply add your GPU block, but this is just an option...not necessarily performance difference as a D5 and MCP35x are very close in flow and head. RX and EX rads also perform very similarly. CPU block is the same- Raystorm.

Can you add links to your list so we can compare pricing? I think you have a very good grasp on what you want, just wanted to see if there are any other options out there that can trim some cost for you (if desired).

Nice work, you're on the right track here.



I was going mainly for a quiet setup. I saw that the RX had low FPI so I could use lower RPM fans. My goal is to quiet the system.

I can provide links, sure.

Radiator: http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/xsrx3xrare2.html
Res/Pump: http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/swma5dubayre1.html
Fans: http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/scge120mmsic.html
CPU Block: http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/racpuwai.html
GPU Block: http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/kovifornvgeg.html
GPU Backplate: http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/evgtx680bam0.html
Tubes: http://www.jab-tech.com/PrimoFlex-Pro-LRT-Black-Tubing-...
PT Nuke: http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/peptpcobi1.html
Comp. Fittings: http://www.jab-tech.com/XSPC-G1-4-to-3-8-ID-5-8-OD-Comp...

If you can personally recommend one of the kits for silence; I would look at it. (I'd prefer for somebody with experience to give their opinion rather than me hoping a pre-assembled kit will be good enough!)

My ultimate goal like I said is to lower the noise level of the pc.

And thanks! I really did sit here for 15 hours researching and learning :x.


Edit: There is a Rasta 750 RX360 WC kit...is it a bad kit compared to the previous one? The kits were more confusing to me than just picking parts personally. http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/xsra750rxwak1.html


And yes: I would like to trim the cost; but not lose performance.

My goal is to eventually get into SLI'ing and slight OC (don't feel comfortable OC'ing on just air due to noise levels).


Right now the PC is a 3570k w/ a single GTX 680. Had a little typo in there :3


The case will be a Switch 810 and the 360 radiator will be at the top with a push configuration for now. (The typhoons seemed to get the best review and they're quit expensive, so :( ...plus they match the case!)

You said in another topic that the res/pump combo can be quite noisy.

Any help in getting a good balance of performance, price and audible noise levels would be helpful. (I have zero experience with water cooling so I can't do much outside of looking for dbA levels in reviews)


This is the 680: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...


Everything is compatible with that one, right? =)
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a c 190 K Overclocking
November 5, 2012 5:28:01 PM

You are right with the RX liking slower quieter fans, I have both series of rad and the EX like the highspeeds to get full effect,
You have a good list and as Rubix says, maybe an Ex kit with D5 is a better option, but as its a real loop you can always add/swap parts like gfx blocks and rads
If real silence is your aim, then you need to look at heavy over-radding, this lets you run fans at very low speeds yet still get maximum cooling from the loop, however this is the hardcore expensive route, it gets silly and costly very quickly hehe
Moto
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November 5, 2012 11:41:58 PM

I didnt want to get it very quiet. Around 28-40 decibals is around my goal. I know i need to overrad but my primary concern is just noise over whisper level.

I plan on getting a second 2x120

Id really like to decide because im excited to start!
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a c 337 K Overclocking
November 5, 2012 11:56:14 PM

The X20 750 pump might be more noisy than the D5 pump/res, but I can't say as I don't own either. My D5 is a standalone and it's very, very quiet.

Most people looking for silence and watercooling don't always find both. When you add radiators, you also add fans...while retaining the system cooling fans to keep case airflow. So essentially, you're adding noise as you are adding additional fans, even if they are low RPM. Yes, low speed fans do work well with low FPI rads, but they also work surprisingly well with higher FPI rads as well; not as well as high RPM/static pressure fans, but still quite well. I'd have to find the article where Martin tests various fans and speeds on low and high FPI rads. Even he was shocked at how well lower speed fans worked on higher FPI rads.
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November 6, 2012 2:07:13 AM

I dont necessarily want silence.. case fans are not too loud from my experience, it mainly the gpu fan. I usually have like 2500 rpm case fans but i wouldnt mind trying GT-15s for case fans.

Like i said i dont want to eliminate sound. I just want to cut it down under load. With controllers i can reduce it while sleepimg via pwm.
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November 6, 2012 4:44:02 AM

Now that I'm home I will elaborate for Moto and Rubix. I appreciate the effort and help you have provided so far. It is greatly appreciated.


It takes about 40-50 to wake a person from their sleep...

So I would like anywhere from 28-40 for my total decibel level.


I plan on putting the 3x120mm at the top with air blowing in. Not sure what else to do yet! (Obviously I plan on getting more rads and more fans...but I have to start somewhere :( )

@Moto


I don't want real silence. I want it to be under normal conversation level - and above whisper level (30) is acceptable - AS long as it's under 40.

If I remember right, a dbA 25 is about hushed conversation levell. So if I just stocked EVERYTHING with max AP-15s (wanted 13's, but rethinking that)...

I don't need super cold temperatures at first. I want good numbers - moving into great numbers as I expand my water cooling collection. (I'm not an unrealistic person - but I also don't want to drop all the cash up front even though I have it.)


How much raddage do you think I'd need in the long run?

I'm just looking for the best setup to reach sub-40 decibels is all. (The closer to 30 the better).


@Rubix

Are you suggesting that by using 2000 RPM fans I could get a higher fpi rad and achieve greater cooling while maintaining my personal goals of decibel levels?
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a c 190 K Overclocking
November 6, 2012 5:14:51 AM

I don't endorse the Zalman range at all, some folks like them, I see aluminium and walk away

Rubix was saying you can use lower speed fans on high fin rads with decent results, 2k fans aren't what most would class as slower fans though,
Without knowing your Cpu or overclocking intentions its ballpark but I could guarantee good results from an Ex360 per block, both tempswise and noise,
I'll link a vid of my rig later so you can see if the noise level is around what you are after, then we can look to getting you a 'best approach' list drawn up
Moto
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November 6, 2012 5:19:58 AM

The cpu OC is more of a secondary thing to cooling and OC'ing the GPU. As I stated I do want to maximize my radiator potential (but I'm still learning so I'm not sure how to mount, where to mount, etc.).


If at all possible I'd like to take the CPU to at least / about 4.5 GHz.

As for the GPU - that's undecided yet (just depends on my rad usage!)


I didn't mean that 2k fans would be slower; just that it was on the closer spectrum to the quieter yet more powerful for the high fpi rads.

Edit: Is there a quicker way to communicate with either one of you? I feel like this will take a month due to my work schedule :( . (I posted twice on my breaks tonight from my Galaxy SIII xD)
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a c 190 K Overclocking
November 6, 2012 5:28:38 AM

Where/how to mount? oh are you talking to the right guy lol,
You can mount rads on top of the case, hanging off the rear, on the back sidepanel, or even consider an external radbox, options are almost limitless
I wasn't knocking the 2k fans, but I use 1650 rpm units on my Ex360's on low and get good results, full blast is unnecessary noise so I rarely use that,
I'd definitely consider an external setup though, it opens up a lot of potential that most don't see, I'm in another similar thread at the moment and the guy thinks he can only put in the rads that the manufacturer says will fit in the case, I'm trying to get him to think outside the box as well hehe
Moto
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November 6, 2012 5:39:46 AM

Motopsychojdn said:
Where/how to mount? oh are you talking to the right guy lol,
You can mount rads on top of the case, hanging off the rear, on the back sidepanel, or even consider an external radbox, options are almost limitless
I wasn't knocking the 2k fans, but I use 1650 rpm units on my Ex360's on low and get good results, full blast is unnecessary noise so I rarely use that,
I'd definitely consider an external setup though, it opens up a lot of potential that most don't see, I'm in another similar thread at the moment and the guy thinks he can only put in the rads that the manufacturer says will fit in the case, I'm trying to get him to think outside the box as well hehe
Moto



I have considered external but I feel like it'd be more of a pain for me. Where i live right now is very restrictive - and I will probably be moving soon; and maybe even a second time after that. Due to that I kind of want to keep it all internal so I have more room (my room is literally like 8 feet by 8 feet...I don't even have room for a bed.)

I have considered the back thing, etc. I meant in particular to the Switch 810. I've seen several mounting options but I haven't learned about every available option for it yet.

And I have thought about external mounting on the case :p . I would do it for a 120 on the rear if I did that one.
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a c 190 K Overclocking
November 6, 2012 5:59:53 AM

Our Pc room is pretty small as well, so I built up instead of out :) 
Heres the rig anyhow,
two EX360's in the box 14x Xspc 1650 Rpm fans in there
one Rx240 on top 4x Gelid blue wings 1500 Rpm
and five Blue wings, one 40mm Nb fan, four 100Mm gfx cards fans and the Psu fan in the case, the one modded over the Cpu is Mobo controlled btw
Heres the video

If you use some brackets to extend the rad out, theres no reason you can't use a 240 or larger on the back
i'll have a better look at the 810 and see what I can come up with for you
Moto
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November 6, 2012 6:12:38 AM

That picture looked like a desk to me xD.

Edit: Stupid adblock made it look like a single picture.


Hm..


It's relatively close to what I want noise-wise.
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a c 190 K Overclocking
November 6, 2012 6:24:19 AM

Too loud on max?
I thought it may have looked like a pic so thats why I stated it was a vid :) 
If you had 2k fans it would be a decent bit louder on full, but the cooling would ofc be better on low, what you need to consider is that after about halfway, the cooling performance to noise ratio will drop, and at a certain point the cooling power is maxed, any increase in fan speed after that is pointless and just creates more noise, it takes some playing to find the sweet spot but on my rig, I have all the fans off in the morning when i get in from work so as not to disturb the better half, and even gaming I'll only have the Rx fans on full, the radbox fans stay on low and that still gives me a very good delta, cores and gfx cards never exceed 40'c,
the only time I max the fans is on clocking sessions and thats more of an announcement to the Gf that I'm not to be disturbed hehe
Moto
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a c 150 K Overclocking
November 6, 2012 6:32:33 AM

Moto's rig is too quiet.....he's running over 20(is that right?) fans? Too quiet..... :( 

My rig is decently loud, the Alphacool VPP655T is the loudest....
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a c 190 K Overclocking
November 6, 2012 6:38:53 AM

29 at last count :p 
Moto
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a c 150 K Overclocking
November 6, 2012 6:46:47 AM

I'm only running 9.....
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November 6, 2012 6:49:36 AM

Motopsychojdn said:
I don't endorse the Zalman range at all, some folks like them, I see aluminium and walk away
Moto


And what's wrong with aluminum? It a 3qt external reservator and raditor, quite overkill actually. Been using the same reservator with distilled water for almost 10 years, no problems, sees me through all my high end builds oc'd to hell, from cpu + 2 x gpu + nb to just cpu.
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a c 190 K Overclocking
November 6, 2012 7:00:18 AM

I don't like mixing aluminium with copper or nickel, even my fire extinguisher reservoir mod got lined with varnish to keep the water away from the aluminium,
Zalmans pump are on the weak side as well, plenty of reserator owners have upgraded them as a mod,
I know some folks like them, yourself included obviously but I wouldn't have one,
if Op decided to get one as his loop thats all well and shiny, but as I originally said, its not something I'd consider using on my own Pc.
Moto
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a c 190 K Overclocking
November 6, 2012 7:11:54 AM

Ok, If I had the 810 it would go like this,

360 inside the roof, probably RX thickness,
240 in the base, same
360 mounted on top of the roof, ex thickness
and possible a 240 on the rear, again a 30mm job
they are all mountable without any cutting, a few sets of brackets would do fine, and I'd also install a separator sheet between the two top rads to avoid any sandwich airflow issues,
I'd go for a dual pump res on it, just to keep the flowrates up
Moto
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November 6, 2012 7:41:00 AM

That is extremely confusing but I'll remember that.

Also...your fans were way too loud on max.

Goin' to bed will reply to the rest in a bit.

I wouldnt use that Zalman either, it looks silly.

Your fans were ideal soundwise while on low / mediumish.

I see you said 1650 / 1500 rpm fans. I would never run the fans on max. I only need a stable OC while gaming :-)..

How would i control all those fans though? Most controllers have six lines...

Having said that, is there anything I could change to drop price but not performance?

After all, a lower price makes it easier for me to get more rads!



What confused me was where exactly you'd mount a pump. If, like you said, I did the full radiators everywhere, there'd be no room for a pump :|. (That's why I thought of doing the res/pump thing).
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a c 337 K Overclocking
November 7, 2012 1:07:31 AM

Reserator isn't good at all- aluminum construction and a very weak pump. Also, having a large reservoir isn't going to help you once the loop reaches working equilibrium. Depending on size, this might take a while, or only give you a few extra minutes. A reservoir does not improve cooling ability unless you are adding ice or otherwise cooling the water volume in addition to the reserator in your loop.
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November 7, 2012 1:22:47 AM

That sounds reasonable theoretically, but in practice that much liquid and surface area are more than enough. I've never gotten anywhere close to a working equilibrium, it's more like a constant flow room temperature water. yes, some people had problems with their v1 pumps from years ago, but i didn't need to replace mine until 7 or 8 years.
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a c 337 K Overclocking
November 7, 2012 2:13:02 AM

Surface area isn't the only issue, its turbulent flow and the ability to exchange heat with the air. Water to air as an exchanger is less effective when you have just surface area, larger volume and lack of airflow as compared to turbulent flow through radiator channels with turbulent flow, higher surface area, higher flow and airflow over the fins of the fan to dissipate heat into the ambient air.

You also still have aluminium potentially mixed with copper, nickel and brass which would lead to galvanic corrosion. Also, aluminium is a poorer conductor of heat either absorbing or dissipating heat when compared to copper, nickel or brass used in most modern watercooling gear.
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a c 190 K Overclocking
November 7, 2012 4:31:30 AM

**How would i control all those fans though? Most controllers have six lines... **

I use three of these personally,
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/nesteq-fanmax-8-channel-...
but Scythe do a 12 channel unit,
http://www.google.co.uk/products/catalog?q=12+channel+f...
Don't think they have to go into a drivebay either, you need two drivebay slots for a res/pump combo and I assume you will have at least one Dvd drive?
get creative and mod them into somewhere else on the case if required, half of W/c is modding hehe
same goes for a standalone pump, you can mount them anywhere you can bolt them to the case, just try and have it below the reservoir to avoid it pumping dry
Moto
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November 7, 2012 4:34:56 AM

So far I thank you all for your input.

Since we still haven't discussed the price without much of a performance loss, I'll ask again xD.


My desired budget is about $5-600. (That's what I'm going to try to get for my AMD rig - to pay for my beginning in WC).

I'd really like to be able to squeeze in a 2x120 alongside what I listed - but I need to ask...



Are temperate detection devices, or water level devices even useful? (One of the main benefits of the Maelstrom).

If it was in the sticky I must have missed it. (I've read it about 3 or 4 times now.)


@Moto


I'm not very experienced with modding things. I've never done it and this is my step into learning to mod cases. (I can fabricate but I can't modify things because I'm a dum dum...rofl.)

I figured the pump could go anywhere - but I just mean if I had rads everywhere, I wouldn't really have surface space left other than outside of the case.


I also don't plan to have an optical drive. The only things I keep on disc are my OS.

Hm...I'll explore the case when I get time. I only get about two hours of free time a day. I usually reply to you guys from work =).


Edit: Honestly I'd like to design a case in auto cad and actually fabricate my own :) . Would be expensive though. (This is just a side topic...don't focus on it :p )
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Best solution

a c 190 K Overclocking
November 7, 2012 4:59:25 AM

You have several water level detection devices already, eyes and ears :) 
You visually check your res level and if you can hear your water trickling, you know its lower than you'd like (Pro tip, full resses are a key point of a 'silent' loop)
temp sensors aren't essential, but once you drop some money on a loop you would like to know how well its performing so yes, a sensor for ambient temps and at least one for the water temps would be good (then you can brag about a xx'C delta-T :p )
If you can fabricate, you can definitely mod my friend, you have the creative ability/skills already, you just need to draw the plans yourself this time,
for instance you say,
**but I just mean if I had rads everywhere, I wouldn't really have surface space left other than outside of the case.**
Ok, so lets think laterally,theres a little space underneath the optic drive cage, bolt it to that, or mount it on the backplate at the side of the 20+4pin on the mobo,
check the W/c and homebuilt galleries for ideas and steal/modify the things that others have done, at worst someone will go 'oh, thats how mine is, nice one'
I was the same on my last build, no optical in the case (I keep one in the drawer for occasional needs)
but my current build needed one, its complicated hehe

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/8523/ex-rad-146/XSPC_...
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/16070/ex-wat-210/XSPC...
And your choice of gfx block, maybe a couple of feet more tubing because you will misjudge cuts sometimes :p 
Enough radspace there, and plenty left in the budget for fans and controllers,
And the res/pump combo deals with the where to mount issue
Moto
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November 7, 2012 5:06:10 AM

Hmm....Okay. Thanks! I'll look at this and compare and whatnot.
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November 7, 2012 5:10:32 AM

Depends on your system. The system my brother uses (internal reservoir in the 5 1/2, externation radiator, frozenpc/dangerden/home depot) was low of coolant for quite some time and he had no idea until he started get errors and pulled it apart, no obvious leaks (with blue non-conductive fluid), it was only when he manually checked the reservoir level. My Reservator has a huge capacity i'd notice a flood if there was sometime a miss, and all i do is screw off the top to check the level. I'd say it's a good idea. I'd also be surprise if you don't already have some sort of a temperature detection in a of number places. But this in WC, whatever floats your boat (pun intended) the more the merrier!
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a c 190 K Overclocking
November 7, 2012 5:30:02 AM

You do have the normal Mobo temp sensors to indicate core temps etc,
but to measure the water and ambient you need additional sensors, maybe a thermometer in the room for ambient
but you definitely want a sensor in the water to show the water temps, taped to a tube or the side of a reservoir won't give you accurate readings,
Your brother learned the hard way to keep an eye on his loop I guess, hope it didn't damage anything seriously,
you have the right idea though, have a look and see every now and again, with most resses being see-through its easy enough to monitor :) 
Moto
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November 7, 2012 5:37:10 AM

His res was transparant, but he confused condensation for water level
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November 7, 2012 5:57:13 AM

Motopsychojdn said:
You do have the normal Mobo temp sensors to indicate core temps etc,
but to measure the water and ambient you need additional sensors, maybe a thermometer in the room for ambient
but you definitely want a sensor in the water to show the water temps, taped to a tube or the side of a reservoir won't give you accurate readings,
Your brother learned the hard way to keep an eye on his loop I guess, hope it didn't damage anything seriously,
you have the right idea though, have a look and see every now and again, with most resses being see-through its easy enough to monitor :) 
Moto




Just another quick question.


(This is just a broad general question; mainly to learn about efficiency.)


You said I would eventually want two pumps. I noticed some water cooling items such as the reservoirs had options for a double pump connection. (Two pumps connected to the res)


Is that any less efficient than having one on the res and one elsewhere?


Re-reading an earlier post of yours (@Moto) you said "dual pump res" so I'll go ahead and assume the answer is that the difference is negligible.
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a c 190 K Overclocking
November 7, 2012 6:41:59 AM

You can have a dual pump res or two pumps mounted separately, it doesn't make a massive difference unless you have 30 feet of tubing in which case you would try and have the pumps equidistantly to balance flow,
Moto
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November 7, 2012 3:53:08 PM

Motopsychojdn said:
You can have a dual pump res or two pumps mounted separately, it doesn't make a massive difference unless you have 30 feet of tubing in which case you would try and have the pumps equidistantly to balance flow,
Moto



That makes sense :D .

I really doubt I'll have 30 feet of tubing in this case :x.
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a c 190 K Overclocking
November 7, 2012 4:58:51 PM

Most folks don't,
I maybe have but my loops not normal lol
but in a 'normal' loop you maybe have 6-7 feet of tubing so flowrate is not overly affected by anything other than heavily restrictive blocks and tight bends
so in that case you try and keep the flow constant by spreading the pumps out, as the pressure starts dropping, the second pump just kicks it up a touch, and minimising bends in the loop
Moto
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November 9, 2012 2:23:36 AM

Best answer selected by redpanda.
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a c 190 K Overclocking
November 9, 2012 5:02:22 AM

Thank you for B.a. man, feel free to shout up if theres anything else we can help with :) 
Moto
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