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$1000+ Canadian, gaming PC. - Page 2

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a b 4 Gaming
February 10, 2010 6:45:49 PM

It's Canadian. And no, $300 is an X58 price. Or at least a quality price.

It's also an USB 3/SATA III board with 2 PCIe 2.0 slots. They aren't cheap.
a b 4 Gaming
February 10, 2010 6:49:22 PM

Not a comparable board. It's also not in Canadian dollars.

The Asus P7P55D-E Pro is $190 US. The cheapest, comparable X58 board is the Asus P6X58D Premium is $310 US.
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February 10, 2010 6:50:42 PM

Are we adding another CPU to the mix?
a b 4 Gaming
February 10, 2010 6:52:50 PM

No because it's not a great gaming CPU. And it's an entirely new build. You'd not only need a new motherboard but new RAM. The build will add another $300+ to the build.
February 10, 2010 6:54:42 PM

What is the benefit of X58 Mobos, and are they worth it?
February 10, 2010 6:56:00 PM

Nope. They elimante bottlenecks during 3x and 4x xfire, and they use more expensive CPUs.
a b 4 Gaming
February 10, 2010 6:59:22 PM

The main benefit is that the PCIe 2.0 lanes operate at a full 16x/16x when Crossfiring. That amounts to a 4% performance gain, and is only noticeable when using 5970s.

The other benefit is that it will have the first 6 core CPU released by Intel on its socket. Which will likely be $1,000 and not have that big of a performance increase.
February 10, 2010 7:01:02 PM

I think Gulftown will have a nice preformance boost in synthetics.
a b 4 Gaming
February 10, 2010 7:03:12 PM

Ok. I'll restate what I said:

Quote:
...and not have that big of a real world performance increase.


Which is the only thing that matters.
February 10, 2010 7:04:51 PM

Well, they might in very well threaded games/future games.
February 10, 2010 7:08:17 PM

So if I crossfired 2 5970s ($700), I'd notice 4% difference. You say the only good X58 Mobos are in the $300 range. So that's about $800 over the original build?
February 10, 2010 7:09:37 PM

I think I might be confused now, are the X58 boars you speak of able to support i5/i7? In that case I don't know the price anymore. I assume I was right on that first Mobo Builderbob mention though..
February 10, 2010 7:09:49 PM

No, it you fired 2 5970s it wouldnt be a 4% diffrence. it would be a 300% diffrense. Xfire 5970=Quadfire, which P55 can't do decently.

If you intend on using 3 or more GPUS, GPUs, not cards mind you, then go X58. Otherwise go AM3/P55.
a b 4 Gaming
February 10, 2010 7:14:23 PM

anishinaabeg said:
So if I crossfired 2 5970s ($700), I'd notice 4% difference. You say the only good X58 Mobos are in the $300 range. So that's about $800 over the original build?


About $1k really, once you figure in the added price of the processor and additional (tri-channel vs. dual-channel) RAM.

The 1366 socket (X58) chips are decent, but not significantly better than 1156 for gaming. However, the 1366 chips do offer improved performance at most things that benefit from multi-cores due to hyperthreading, higher memory bandwidth, etc. such as video rendering, high-end number crunching, audio recording.

Most of the time, you shouldn't be considering a 1366 socket unless your budget is over $1500 and you do some highly-threaded work. Or your budget is over $2k and you want to be able do to anything and everything.
a b 4 Gaming
February 10, 2010 7:19:09 PM

OK...

X58 board will only use the i7-920 (or higher). The main benefit is that the PCIe 2.0 operates at 16x/16x in Crossfire. The performance gain of having 2 5970s on a P55 (i5) board vs. having 2 5970s on a X58 board is 4%. The gain of having 2 5970s over 1 5970 is something like 70% or so.

Just to make it clear, here's full progression:

$0 X3/5850
$100 X3/5870
$200 X4 955/5870
$275 i5/5870
$350 X3/5970
$450 X4/5970
$525 i5/5970
$825 i7/5970
$1,050 X3/2x 5970
$1,150 X4/2x 5970
$1,225 i5/2x 5970
$1,425 i7/2x 5970

So unless you've got $1,700, don't use the i7. If you don't have more than $2,050, Crossfired 5970s are out of reach. If you don't have $2,500, you won't be gettin the i7 and CF 5970s.
February 10, 2010 7:21:10 PM

Just want to thank you all for the help up to this point, hope we can come to some form of conclusion with this, I like the price list progressions, they are very helpful.
a b 4 Gaming
February 10, 2010 7:22:08 PM

Keep in mind also that many of the other parts (case, PSU, some others) will have to be increased as you go up the progression as well.
February 10, 2010 7:23:45 PM

So you wouldn't get the i7 before getting the 5970? I'm guessing the price/performance wouldn't make sense with the 5850/5870.
February 10, 2010 7:28:46 PM

MadAdmiral said:
OK...

X58 board will only use the i7-920 (or higher). The main benefit is that the PCIe 2.0 operates at 16x/16x in Crossfire. The performance gain of having 2 5970s on a P55 (i5) board vs. having 2 5970s on a X58 board is 4%. The gain of having 2 5970s over 1 5970 is something like 70% or so.

Just to make it clear, here's full progression:

$0 X3/5850
$100 X3/5870
$200 X4 955/5870
$275 i5/5870
$350 X3/5970
$450 X4/5970
$525 i5/5970
$825 i7/5970
$1,050 X3/2x 5970
$1,150 X4/2x 5970
$1,225 i5/2x 5970
$1,425 i7/2x 5970

So unless you've got $1,700, don't use the i7. If you don't have more than $2,050, Crossfired 5970s are out of reach. If you don't have $2,500, you won't be gettin the i7 and CF 5970s.


WRong. The 4% applies to croossfire. So using only 1 5970 you would have the 4% loss, since the 5970 is built in xfire. This is why i think the 5850 should have been named a 5850X2, so people don't get confused. More info on thius topic: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/p55-pci-express-sca...

Using a 2x 5970s on a p55 would be worse than 1 5970, the same way using 3 5870s on a p55 is worse than using 2 5870s.
a b 4 Gaming
February 10, 2010 7:30:16 PM

Correct on price/performance for dual 5870s. Might be worth it for 2x5850.

2x 5850 ~ total $600, but won't reach 100% of the performance of the 5970
2x 5870s ~ total $800, should exceed (slightly) a 5970
1x 5970 ~ $650, is supposedly 2x5870 GPUs downclocked to 5850 speeds but easy to overclock
February 10, 2010 7:31:28 PM

coldsleep said:
Correct on price/performance for dual 5870s. Might be worth it for 2x5850.

2x 5850 ~ total $600, but won't reach 100% of the performance of the 5970
2x 5870s ~ total $800, should exceed (slightly) a 5970
1x 5970 ~ $650, is supposedly 2x5870 GPUs downclocked to 5850 speeds but easy to overclock


The 5970 doesn't OC as well as everybody thinks. It's bassicaly 2 5850s.
a b 4 Gaming
February 10, 2010 7:33:46 PM

I should have indicated that I meant the "supposedly" in the first half of the phrase applied to the whole phrase. I have no experience with overclocking the 5970 myself, so I certainly did not mean to imply that it was a guaranteed overclock.
February 10, 2010 7:35:06 PM

coldsleep said:
I should have indicated that I meant the "supposedly" in the first half of the phrase applied to the whole phrase. I have no experience with overclocking the 5970 myself, so I certainly did not mean to imply that it was a guaranteed overclock.


Right also, people should understand that the 5970 is a xfire dual pcb card, and suing 2 with an i5 will not work.

EDIT: Rule of thumb- If you are using a single GPU fo lga 1156.
If 2, then still go lga 1156 and suffer a 4% loss.

If 3 gpus ex, A 4870X2 and 4870 trifire, then go X58 or suffer massive, huge unberable losses.

If 4 gpus, Ex 2 5970s A p55 might allow to play mindsweeper. Go x58.
a b 4 Gaming
February 10, 2010 7:48:13 PM

builderbobftw said:
WRong. The 4% applies to croossfire. So using only 1 5970 you would have the 4% loss, since the 5970 is built in xfire. This is why i think the 5850 should have been named a 5850X2, so people don't get confused. More info on thius topic: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/p55-pci-express-sca...

Using a 2x 5970s on a p55 would be worse than 1 5970, the same way using 3 5870s on a p55 is worse than using 2 5870s.


That's absolutely wrong. Using 3 5870s will perform BETTER than 2. The gain from adding the third card will just not be the same as adding the second card.

Also, adding a third card does basically nothing for performance. So it's pointless.

And clearing the air a bit:

There is a difference between Crossfire and 2 GPUs on one card. The loss via the single card is less than in two separate cards.

The 4% I quoted is specifically the loss in Crossfire on the P55 compared to the X58. It doesn't reference anything else.

The 5970 IS 2 5870s on one card, downclocked. It will at least clock up to 5970 levels, and possibly much, much higher. Therefore, it is a deal compared to dual 5870s ($800 vs. $650). Extrapolating from the lower cards, I have a 5750 that overclocked to well above stock 5770 level, using only ATI's Overdrive tool (so it took literally 3 clicks of the mouse). Thus, the 5970 should be able to be overclocked a great deal.

To answer the OP's i7 upgrade vs. 5970 upgrade: Yes, I would get the 5970 before the i7.
February 10, 2010 8:45:22 PM

If it's the case that they don't accept Paypal, I don't know that they have any options available to me for payment. I do not use credit cards.

http://ncix.com/

I know that NCIX both accepts Paypal, and they have stores near me where I can pick the parts up rather than have them shipped.
February 10, 2010 8:49:37 PM

Oh yes one more thing, is a sound card of any benefit? It seemed that they at least used to produce superior sound, and allowed the computer to leave sound processing to the card rather than the computer. I'm just not sure if there is a noticeable difference nowadays, in either the quality of sound or performance.
a b 4 Gaming
February 10, 2010 8:52:31 PM

Most people don't notice a difference in sound quality between motherboard and dedicated sound these days. The general recommendation here is to buy without one, and if you find yourself really troubled by the sound, then drop the money on a dedicated card.
February 10, 2010 9:00:39 PM

Ok I'll just go with onboard. If I don't have to pay shipping I'll save money, I don't know how much though.

I noticed that 1, not everything is available on NCIX that you've listed, and 2, it seems either their prices are higher on some items, or, they only stock the more expensive items.

If you take into account shipping though, I wonder if I'll be spending about the same, if I find parts on NCIX that are as close as possible to the build you've all given me so far.

I still don't know for sure if I can't use Newegg.ca but it seems that way from what I saw.
a b 4 Gaming
February 10, 2010 9:30:47 PM

That's only on two games. If you continue to read that article, you'll find that adding the third card gains about 7.6% above two cards. The total benefit of adding a second card is 55.65%, adding the second and third card has a performance gain of 67.52% over a single card (and no, that's not 21%, you have to use add the original 100% to both of those). The other benchmarks have the P55 3 way above in the higher settings and many other games. The second to last page shows the average across all games and all settings, which the best comparison, as certain games treat Crossfire better than others. The test also shows that a single card performs BETTER on a P55 board than on a X58 board (100% to 99.41%), albeit by almost nothing. If you're going to cite proof, at least make sure it's saying what you think it is...

This is a couple of pages later... http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/p55-pci-express-sca...

In addition, it states that the performance gain of using 2 cards in Crossfire on X58 vs. 2 cards in Crossfire on P55 is only 4%, which is what I was saying earlier. They used 5870s on a 16x/8x/8x P55 board and 16x/16x/8x X58 board for the testing. The test was not conducted with 5970s, partly because buying two 5970s is a waste of a lot of very good money.
February 10, 2010 9:49:28 PM

Nothing to say about my payment dilemma?
a b 4 Gaming
February 10, 2010 10:22:06 PM

Newegg doesn't accept PayPal. I think they only accept credit cards.
February 10, 2010 10:25:22 PM

Look on youtube for how to videos.

Good luck!

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Everyone needs an internet fax service.
February 10, 2010 11:14:03 PM

How to videos...on how to put the PC together? I think I know enough, though this is newer technology than I'm used to.

Do you think NCIX has any equivalent parts for the price? Is there any other site that accepts Paypal that's good? Would not having to pay shipping at NCIX save enough money to make the cost almost equal or less?

I'm sorry if I've wasted any of your time guys, I hope I can find a solution. Maybe I should just research based on the parts you've shown me? Or were they chosen specifically because of their prices?

If the parts you've shown me are the best in that price range, in general, I could search around for places that accept Paypal, or local shops myself to find them on my own, if none of you know where to look.

You guys have been helping me all day so feel free to take a break until tomorrow. I'd still like to sort this out in the end though. If I don't get any replies about what I should do before I go offline tonight, I will probably bump tomorrow.

I guess I need to start from square one. Find a place to buy from. Then, figure out which parts to buy. A whole new list of possible builds may be needed depending on what's available :??: 

Let me know what you think I should do, if you will. Thank you for helping.
February 10, 2010 11:28:34 PM

Ebay takes Paypall. Hell, they OWN paypall.
February 10, 2010 11:30:58 PM

Hmm, think I could find good deals there? As good, better, or worse?

I guess I should not bother with auctions, but look for listed prices?
February 10, 2010 11:32:20 PM

Oh, and how is the shipping compared to Newegg? I guess it varies, but what does shipping at Newegg cost? I assume we didn't include shipping in the prices we established for the builds earlier?
February 10, 2010 11:46:34 PM

Meh, Ebay stuff is realy cheap. I got a 4870 1gb for 93$ shipped. Gear deal. the only thing is that in order to get real discounts you need to buy used. The other thing is paypall+ ebay protection make sure you don't get screwed. Some stuff is overpriced, but if you look realy hard you can find deals like this.


http://cgi.ebay.com/Complete-Eyefinity-Setup-Radeon-597...
February 11, 2010 12:44:45 AM

Should I avoid auctions, and just go for fixed prices, or could I find a better deal than fixed prices in auctions?

What is the shipping of Newegg? I'd like to compare prices, since Ebay shipping can vary greatly, right? Sometimes you'll find what look like deals, then realize they make extra that they shouldn't from shipping, IIRC.

Was shipping included in any of the builds listed earlier? I'm guessing not, which might add a good amount to the price.

I probably won't be buying until some time near the end of the month, so I've plenty of time to look around. Even when I get the money I can shop around carefully. Maybe I should revive this thread when that happens, and some people here can help me hunt for deals on parts?

I may not post again tonight, don't let that stop you from leaving me messages for when I get back though! Thanks guys. :D 
a b 4 Gaming
February 11, 2010 1:13:45 AM

Shipping varies. Or at least it does in the US. I didn't include the cost of shipping in my builds.

You should definitely come back the week you're buying. A lot of prices and deals change on Mondays.
a b 4 Gaming
February 11, 2010 1:38:38 AM

Newegg may accept PayPal after all. I just ordered something and noticed there was a choice for PayPal, but it doesn't say that they accept it anywhere before checking out...
February 11, 2010 12:17:33 PM

That would be great. Could anyone confirm if Newegg.ca/Newegg.com accept Paypal?

What is the benefit of Newegg over other sites? From years ago I recall hearing basically that they usually have the lowest prices. It also seems like the may have one of the largest selections of parts. If those are true, what other benefits are there? Is shipping usually cheap? How much could shipping go up to for each of the parts I'm buying?

It would be good if I can get an estimate on what these builds will cost me in total after shipping.

Can one go to the checkout area of the site on the items, to look to see if Paypal is an option, and then cancel out of the deal at the end? If Paypal is an option, someone should update their site to make it clear that this is so. They probably lose customers that don't want to use credit cards because of this.
February 11, 2010 12:19:43 PM

Oh, and I'm guessing that local retailers in general will have their items priced considerably higher than anywhere online? NCIX may be decent. I don't know if Newegg doesn't work out, if there is any other places that are good for me to buy from. Seems like NCIX and Ebay may be my only options at that point.
a b 4 Gaming
February 11, 2010 12:20:21 PM

Newegg generally has the best prices. They definitely have the best selection.

You can also find some good deals on the US side. Shipping is sometimes free, or usually a standard flat rate (US).

The easiest way to determine shipping is adding all the parts to the cart and checking. You don't have to continue if it doesn't accept PayPal or shipping is too much.
February 11, 2010 12:35:22 PM

Maybe I should just be patient, it looks to be a slow area of the site given how little my thread has fallen down the list, but I've gotten no help with the Wireless Network Card, or the Router that I've asked about in the Wireless Networking : Wireless General Discussions section. Maybe I should just bump and hope for the best? Here it is for your reference:

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/27162-18-need-cheap...

Getting back to your reply, so you think I should compare prices between the US side and the Canadian side at Newegg? No need to do that until I'm getting close to the purchase date I'd imagine, thank you for the tip though.

Glad to know I don't have to buy stuff in order to see if they accept Paypal, that should help.

So there is no good sites/stores you would recommend to me for the purpose of buying PC parts aside from Newegg?
a b 4 Gaming
February 11, 2010 1:12:11 PM

That wasn't what I was saying. I have no idea on the deals/shipping on the Canada side. I was just stating why people prefer Newegg in the US.

There aren't as many people in the Networking section. I would bump it and see if you still don't get a response. If you don't go ahead and create a new question up here.

The only ones I know are NCIX and DirectCanada.
February 11, 2010 1:30:51 PM

Ok, would there be a chance of finding a better deal if I search through the US side of Newegg, or is it more likely that the prices are very similar once you break down the currency difference?

I should probably make a checkout list on both sides (US and Canada), and then figure out after shipping what they both add up to after shipping, and compare the total prices for each part.

Thanks for the tip on my networking thread. If I don't get any response I should make a new thread in this section (Homebuilt Systems : New System Build), but not ask it in this thread?

Maybe I should compare prices of parts between Newegg, NCIX, and DirectCanada when it gets close to the time of purchase, might be some parts are cheaper than Newegg.

Btw, I really like the look of that tower you showed me in the build. One question though, does that side panel let air in, or does it have some plastic/glass stopping airflow? I'm not sure if it's best to have such an intake area without a fan, but I imagine it wouldn't hurt.

Thanks again for your help.
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