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Yet more proof that intel doesnt care about you!!!

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a b à CPUs
April 19, 2010 1:26:11 PM

http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/18517/1/

Socket 1156 will not be upgradable to SandyBridge, because Sandy will be using 6 series chipsets... ;) 
a b à CPUs
April 19, 2010 1:46:11 PM

exactly why we use AMD!
a b à CPUs
April 19, 2010 1:57:01 PM

ahhh..., the good ol' days of LGA 775, oh, wait, they're not spent... yet...
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a b à CPUs
April 19, 2010 2:11:19 PM

N.Broekhuijsen said:
exactly why we use AMD!

+1. Faithful AMD fan here...

There must be a reason why Intel change sockets so frequently. Too lazy to google though... my internet is very slow today...
a b à CPUs
April 19, 2010 2:16:15 PM

randomkid said:
+1. Faithful AMD fan here...

There must be a reason why Intel change sockets so frequently. Too lazy to google though... my internet is very slow today...


yep, last CPU ive had that was intel was an old Pentium 2. (yes, two, at 400mhz).

ever since its been AMD, with a 939 2.0Ghz single core athlon > AM2 2.2 single athlon > 2.8 dual athlon (same board as previous) > phenom 2 965

upgraded boards while using 2.8 dual, which later upped to the phenom....

so cheap and easy to upgrade AMD systems
a b à CPUs
April 19, 2010 2:35:14 PM

If you bought an i7 in the past 18 months your only true upgrade will be the $1000 980x. Intel has clearly given up on socket upgradability and expects their buyers to renew their whole pc's every 2 years now.
a b à CPUs
April 19, 2010 2:39:13 PM

jennyh said:
If you bought an i7 in the past 18 months your only true upgrade will be the $1000 980x. Intel has clearly given up on socket upgradability and expects their buyers to renew their whole pc's every 2 years now.


I think all AMD boys, some of us included, are going to laugh at all intel boys every few years
April 19, 2010 2:43:44 PM

jennyh said:
If you bought an i7 in the past 18 months your only true upgrade will be the $1000 980x. Intel has clearly given up on socket upgradability and expects their buyers to renew their whole pc's every 2 years now.

I like to buy replacement systems every 4 to 6 years.

So do most of the people I organise new PC's for.
a c 133 à CPUs
April 19, 2010 3:09:21 PM

Alot of people will upgrade their motherboard anyway when upgrading a system.
a b à CPUs
April 19, 2010 4:28:42 PM

I am not a fanboy of either AMD or Intel.

What i would like to see more of is, for example: more motherboards like the ASUS P5Q P45 LGA 775 which can handle almost any LGA 775-based CPU.

I know AMD is doing this wight now with their AM3 motherboards and that is great. But Intel should be doing the same, especially since their components run a little more expensive...
a b à CPUs
April 19, 2010 4:45:41 PM

:sleep: 

What new about this?
a b à CPUs
April 19, 2010 5:08:10 PM

Uh ohs. Fudzilla hasn't been the most reputable for 'straight up' news, but if this is true for all 1156 boards then intel is going to have a lot of unhappy customers.

You sure love to please, Intel!
a c 102 à CPUs
April 19, 2010 5:50:59 PM

jennyh said:
If you bought an i7 in the past 18 months your only true upgrade will be the $1000 980x. Intel has clearly given up on socket upgradability and expects their buyers to renew their whole pc's every 2 years now.


xaira said:
http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/18517/1/

Socket 1156 will not be upgradable to SandyBridge, because Sandy will be using 6 series chipsets... ;) 


I bet it's a consequence of having so much rolled into the CPU package as Intel does with the LGA1156 chips. All of that off-chip I/O has to get routed through the socket and if you change much for features (such as making a real PCIe x16/x16 interface instead of the current x16/x0 or x8/x8), the socket must change as well.

Also, there are a lot of quad-core and six-core 32 nm Xeon 5600s that should work well in the single-socket LGA1366 boards as well, not just the i7 980X. You get more cache, less heat, and probably higher overclocks with those than you currently get with i7 920s. I've been waiting for people to get a hold of Xeon E5620s (32 nm, quad-core, 2.40-2.67 GHz, 12 MB L3) and overclock them in X58 single-socket boards just to see what they'll do.
April 19, 2010 6:12:07 PM

Personally, i am more than happy to upgrade my system every 2 years, i dont think amd has a chip that can beat intel's (desktop cpu's im on about), which is why i would always choose intel. computers arent cheap, nor are they an asset, they will continually become less valuable with age. rumours are that the hexacore amd's will only match low end i7 performance, nobody can touch intels extreme cpu's.

Intel are best, but amd are cheaper, end of the day, it depends on how much you are willing to spend.
a b à CPUs
April 19, 2010 6:19:52 PM

keytthom said:
Personally, i am more than happy to upgrade my system every 2 years, i dont think amd has a chip that can beat intel's (desktop cpu's im on about), which is why i would always choose intel. computers arent cheap, nor are they an asset, they will continually become less valuable with age. rumours are that the hexacore amd's will only match low end i7 performance, nobody can touch intels extreme cpu's.

Intel are best, but amd are cheaper, end of the day, it depends on how much you are willing to spend.


tests have been done by a dutch site tweakers.net

the phenom 2 x6 beats the i7 960 without a problem in all multithreaded apps. only weakness is non-multi threaded apps.
In 3dmark06 it quote: "crushes" the i7 960.

plus price advantage here, it is 270 dollars cheaper than the i7 960, it costs less than 300$

Looks like AMD has a shot with this CPU, plus, it will fit in older AM2+ boards :ouch: 

Who is talking now? :sol: 

EDIT: AM2+ boards that have a 700 series chip or newer
April 19, 2010 6:42:33 PM

I don't really trust Fudzilla, but if it's true, I'm wondering what I should do: suicide or murder of some Intel executive.

I just completed my first build with a P55 platform, after a long doubt between that and AM3. I decided to go with P55 and hoped Sandy Bridge would make upgrading possible, but no... If this is true, I'll replace my P55 with an AMD mobo next time I upgrade and never look back...
April 19, 2010 6:47:06 PM

yeah but like i said, if price isnt a problem, 980x will win hands down.
a b à CPUs
April 19, 2010 7:25:14 PM

keytthom said:
yeah but like i said, if price isnt a problem, 980x will win hands down.



uhm, did the article in the link say anything about socket 1366? oh thats right it didnt, socket 1156 is mid range, no one is saying that the gulftown will be challenged by amd any time soon, its just annoying when it seems that a company with so much r&d dollars seems so hell bent on on making it almost impossible for the average user to know which cpu fits which board..., if sandy releases and the above article is true, Intel will have 4 different desktop sockets active simultaneously...where is the sense?
a b à CPUs
April 19, 2010 7:47:59 PM

Didn't I post this about a week ago in the mobo section?

Still, not unexpected. 1366 for servers, which will automatically have a longer lifespan. But I always wondered about that two socket strategy...
April 19, 2010 7:55:57 PM

xaira said:
Intel will have 4 different desktop sockets active simultaneously...where is the sense?


Intel only have to support the optimal configuration for each CPU, AMD have to support every new CPU on an antiquated motherboard. And since very few people upgrade CPUs without upgrading the motherboard, it's not an issue for most of Intel's market.

Where's the sense in AMD supporting a next-generation 8-core CPU with integrated GPU on a dual-channel DDR2 motherboard that will cripple its performance and prevent the GPU from working?
a b à CPUs
April 19, 2010 8:28:06 PM

Well, hmm, are there any official specs of Sandy Bridge?

They are surely going to introduce a replacement for their QPI :??: 

I've heard of the Advanced Vector Extension (AVX) they are going to implement to Sandy Bridge, but, man they've changed to like three platforms (LGA1366, 1156 and now 1155)

We are just going to wait and see what will they do with this one.

Oh, and no more hexas for LGA1366? Man.........
April 19, 2010 9:12:19 PM

Well it's not that Intel doesn't care imo, it's just that we're a very, very small piece of the market. Not that many people build/upgrade their own pc's and so for the average user, they just buy a new pc whenever it slows down so why deal with backwards compatibility/maintaining sockets?
a b à CPUs
April 19, 2010 9:20:21 PM

The main issue for me is that the 'upgrade' to DDR3 is barely noticable, never mind triple channel DDR3. And now that's just going to be cast aside?

Personal computers should be getting more interchangeable, more user friendly - but intel would rather we all just threw out good motherboards and upgrade to make them a few more $$'s on chipsets.

For me, I could buy an X6, plug it into my 790GX mobo, then plug my Phenom II into my old 770 mobo I bought for my last Athlon (6000+) and I will *still* have two great machines at a tiny fraction of the cost of buying two intel pc's of the same level.

$150 or so for the cheapest X6, and I've got a "new" Thuban X6 system with crossfire gx mobo, and a second system built on a $60 mobo with crossfire and a phenom II. That kind of value just cant be beaten.
April 19, 2010 9:23:18 PM

jennyh said:

Personal computers should be getting more interchangeable, more user friendly - but intel would rather we all just threw out good motherboards and upgrade to make them a few more $$'s on chipsets.

Hey, and it's horrible for the environment too. I like how all these factories get bashed for emissions but no one wants to say "Hey, you don't really need to change out motherboard/RAM this often."
a b à CPUs
April 19, 2010 9:25:53 PM

Don't get me wrong, intel has done some good things regarding power draw on their cpu's but making perfectly good hardware obsolete every 2 years isn't helping their carbon footprint much no.

edit - i know i'm talking about 1366 when it's really 1156 that is going out, but tbh I don't trust the future of 1366 much either.
a b à CPUs
April 19, 2010 9:39:16 PM

Kinda neutral points from everyone.

Yeah AMD great if your constently swapping parts to the greatest parts that your system can use. although some people (like me) dont swap parts out every few years. I just keep on using it till it has failed and by that time it fails, im going to have to upgrade everything anyways.

It all depend on how you use it.
a b à CPUs
April 19, 2010 9:39:48 PM

I'm not sure what's so funny about environmental issues Chad. I dunno maybe somebody like you cares more about your electricity bill, but to me it's much more about reducing the amount of environmental damage we do.
a b à CPUs
April 19, 2010 9:45:28 PM

MarkG said:

Where's the sense in AMD supporting a next-generation 8-core CPU with integrated GPU on a dual-channel DDR2 motherboard that will cripple its performance and prevent the GPU from working?


you mean just like how intel supports clarkdale on p55?

and just wondering, where is that performance decrease you were talking about?







a b à CPUs
April 19, 2010 9:47:35 PM

ps, i would like 2 congratulate everyone on not turning this into a flame war
April 19, 2010 9:56:12 PM

xaira said:
just wondering, where is that performance decrease you were talking about?


Which of your numbers are for an 8-core AMD CPU with on-die GPU runnning with dual-channel DDR2?
a c 127 à CPUs
April 19, 2010 10:04:47 PM

Fudzillas name is known and used for that reason, Fud. Unless its an official statement from Intel its all rumors.

The new chipset is normal. AMD brought a new chipset out for Thuban (or will be) so its really not a big deal to have a new chipset for those getting ready to upgrade their whole system.

Until we see it straight from Intel, we have no idea. Just like we have no idea about Llano or its actual compatability. AMD says AM3 but we have to wait and see.

As for Intel not caring, no company does. We are all wallets to them all (AMD included). There are some times though when a socket change is necessary for the advancement of the tech.
a b à CPUs
April 19, 2010 10:22:24 PM

Yes and there are times when socket changes are necessary for the advancement of intel's quarterly profit.

1366 should never have been a desktop solution, but it was perfect for intels masterplan. I do have to hand it to intel - they are amazing at squeezing everything out of their products and buyers.
April 19, 2010 10:28:25 PM

jennyh said:
Yes and there are times when socket changes are necessary for the advancement of intel's quarterly profit.

1366 should never have been a desktop solution, but it was perfect for intels masterplan. I do have to hand it to intel - they are amazing at squeezing everything out of their products and buyers.

Not everyone wants to drive a Korean car, even though they are cheaper and also get you from A to B.

Lynnfield is available, so no one is forcing any one to buy Socket 1366 i7's, so if they are selling, it is because it meets a need people have.
a b à CPUs
April 19, 2010 10:33:37 PM

Meh, who knows. Still I expect this kind of behavior from Intel. Doesn't seem like a good move though since they just rolled out a complete line if LGA 1156 CPUs so making them incompatible too soon will make a little harder to move inventory, but we'll see. I still remember how early LGA 775 boards couldn't support C2Duos, or even dual core Pentiums that came out slightly latter than the boards themselves.

I guess we'll see soon enough. I'm still happy that my board (which came out late 2007), still takes newer AMD CPUs :D .
a b à CPUs
April 19, 2010 10:45:39 PM

Why would anybody buy a Lynnfield now? Thuban is clearly going to be the smart choice at a similar price point.

And before you say anything about having the i7 860 for 8 months before Thuban was released, be aware that Lynnfield was released 8 months after Deneb.


So yep, you've found yourself left with an inferior 'i7' which is actually better in a lot of ways, like gaming and well anything that doesn't need more than 4 cores. Only problem is, you have no upgradability, and next week I'm going to plug in faster cpu into my old mobo and your 860 is going to look really slow in comparison.

So what are you left with, with Lynnfield? You paid more, fact - next week you're going to be slower than any AMD user with a Thuban. Where do you go the next 4-6 years Chad?

Being stuck on 1156 doesn't look like a great choice now does it? And AMW1011 who protested the i5's supposed superiority over the 955 BE? 5% extra performance for 30% more cost and a dead upgrade path wasn't a good deal then and it still isn't. The only difference now is, none of you are deluding yourself that intel will provide decent upgrades for your systems.

And btw - the reason I was so set against all the i5 vs phenom II threads should be clear. Every one of you who bought an i5, or a Lynnfield, should know that you made the wrong choice. You might have good pc's, but it was still the *wrong* choice overall because a small % performance advantage is never worth the extra cash and upgradability that going AMD would have provided you with instead.
a b à CPUs
April 19, 2010 10:47:25 PM

I am always in favor of using the competition, no matter who is on top. Why? In the end, it pays for the consumer to make sure that there is always an option, so you don't get a monopoly. Right now, Intel has the performance advantage, and they know it. You can see it in how they price their parts. On parts where they are competitive with AMD, they price accordingly. On parts where AMD cannot compete, the price goes through the roof.

Hence, for 90% of the builds I do for my friends and family, an AMD solution is not only speedy but also economical. For those few builds I end up doing that require nothing but the fastest possible, I end up going with Intel.

By the way, I am looking forward to Thuban. I have always liked Hypertransport as opposed to FSB (Intel current X55) and QPI (Intel current X58). FIrst, it is an open standard that AMD has opened to the world, epsepcially as we are seeing a greater opening on desktop machines for multiprocessor-capable computers. Also, it allows for flexibility in chipset design since hardware designers are no longer limited to proprietary bus designs and can design their chips to the transport layer rather than the interconnect. In the future going forward, you will find that AMD will have an easier time ramping up their boards to use not just multiple cores, but multiple sockets as well as use more banks of memory without having to completely rework their bus design (like Intel has to do now). This is the reason why we haven't seen too many changes in AMD socket architecture, and why so many mainboard chipsets can easily handle more than one socket type without having to do major tape-out overhauls.
a c 127 à CPUs
April 19, 2010 10:52:24 PM

^P55 runs on DMI which is much much faster than FSB and QPI is much much faster than HyperTransport.

As for the smarter choice, it could be whatever works for you. Game a lot? Why buy a 6 core?
April 19, 2010 11:01:07 PM

jennyh said:
Why would anybody by a Lynnfield now? Thuban is clearly going to be the smart choice at a similar price point.

Until we see the reviews/benchmarks from reputable sites, we don't know that.

Quote:
So yep, you've found yourself left with an inferior 'i7' which is actually better in a lot of ways, like gaming and well anything that doesn't need more than 4 cores. Only problem is, you have no upgradability, and next week I'm going to plug in faster cpu into my old mobo and your 860 is going to look really slow in comparison.

:lol:  Even if a Thuban is faster than an i7-860, it won't be by much, nor in that many applications, so your "look real slow" line, just shows how little you understand CPU's.

Quote:
So what are you left with, with Lynnfield? You paid more, fact - next week you're going to be slower than any AMD user with a Thuban.

Silly stuff again. I couldn't wait any longer when I bought my i7-860 in December last year, so I made the absolute right choice for me.

Quote:
Where do you go the next 4-6 years Chad?

This question doesn't make a lot of sense.

My computer should last me 4 years easily, requiring only a GPU or two upgrade along the way.

In 4 years time, there will be something that is fast enough for me to get a "wow factor" from upgrading.

Quote:
Being stuck on 1156 doesn't look like a great choice now does it?
.
The only difference now is, none of you are deluding yourself that intel will provide decent upgrades for your systems.

The delusion is all yours.

I bought my system expecting that there would be no upgrade path for it.

If I was interested in an upgrade path from Intel, I would have gone Socket 1366.

When it comes to value for money, if you add up the cost of a PhII and components, then add in the cost of another CPU upgrade in Thuban, even if you end up with a system 10% faster than an i7-860, you have had to spend 50% or more on the total CPU costs.

So your much vaunted value for money stance falls on its face, for anyone who could have bought an i7-860 last year, but bought a PhII instead, and now has to fork out extra dough for a Thuban to reach or barely exceed performance parity.
a b à CPUs
April 19, 2010 11:02:20 PM

Because some games (will) make better use of 6 cores compared to 4, and that is certainly true looking forward.

The real question is, why buy an i5 system that won't get better? Is there any good reason to buy an i5 now at all?
a b à CPUs
April 19, 2010 11:05:01 PM

Chad Boga said:
The delusion is all yours.

I bought my system expecting that there would be no upgrade path for it.

If I was interested in an upgrade path from Intel, I would have gone Socket 1366.

When it comes to value for money, if you add up the cost of a PhII and components, then add in the cost of another CPU upgrade in Thuban, even if you end up with a system 10% faster than an i7-860, you have had to spend 50% or more on the total CPU costs.

So your much vaunted value for money stance falls on its face, for anyone who could have bought an i7-860 last year, but bought a PhII instead, and now has to fork out extra dough for a Thuban to reach or barely exceed performance parity.


Except I still have a Phenom II that I can sell, or use in a secondary system. What did you use before the i7 860? A 60mhz Pentium 1? :D 
April 19, 2010 11:07:01 PM

jennyh said:
Except I still have a Phenom II that I can sell, or use in a secondary system. What did you use before the i7 860? A 60mhz Pentium 1? :D 

Worse.

An AMD64 3000+
a b à CPUs
April 19, 2010 11:12:16 PM

Well that's unfortunate, though you could probably have upgraded that to a decent-ish pc.

Maybe I just got lucky, I can upgrade from a 2.2ghz dual core up to a 3.4ghz quad core on one ultra cheap mobo, while upgrading from any AMD chip basically to the best Thuban on a more expensive (comparitively) mobo.

I mean if you look at the 790 mobos, you could have had it for 3 years or so, from duals to sexa-cores. So why spend all your cash on upgrading every 4-6 years when you could keep yourself with a good pc every 2 years instead?

Your i7 860 is going to be a joke in 2 years Chad, and you'll have nothing to upgrade it with. Where is the sense in buying that? I suspect you know that you made the wrong choice.
April 19, 2010 11:31:15 PM

jennyh said:
Well that's unfortunate, though you could probably have upgraded that to a decent-ish pc.

Ah no I couldn't, because AMD stopped selling meaningfully faster CPU's for Socket 939 by the time I was considering a CPU upgrade.

It was my experience with AMD there that made me realise that buying in the hope of a CPU upgrade is too hit and miss for my liking.

Quote:
I mean if you look at the 790 mobos, you could have had it for 3 years or so, from duals to sexa-cores. So why spend all your cash on upgrading every 4-6 years when you could keep yourself with a good pc every 2 years instead?

This is the first time a company has had such a good upgrade path, and it follows on from their S939 debacle where they copped a heap of flack from users for abandoning so soon.

So no one buying a 790 mobo last year, could have expected the upgrade path that would follow.

Quote:
Your i7 860 is going to be a joke in 2 years Chad

No it won't be.

If someone had bought a E6600 in Q3 2006, whilst that is no where near as fast as modern CPU's, a system based on that would still allow you to play all modern games quite well, and that is nearly 4 years ago, yet you are suggesting my system will be a joke in 2 years?

It just goes to show how little you know or you don't think about things before your fingers hit the keyboard.

Quote:
and you'll have nothing to upgrade it with. Where is the sense in buying that? I suspect you know that you made the wrong choice.

No CPU, Intel or AMD releases in the next 4 years will be so compelling that I will need to upgrade my system.

Yes both Intel and AMD's future CPU's will obviously be faster, but with the focus on multicores and how slowly software is adapting to a multicore world, the i7-860 will chug along just fine, especially if I overclock it a tad.

Also to further address your point on CPU upgrades which I don't think will be cost effective, keep in mind that when I bought, AMD had released fcuk all info on Thuban's clockspeeds and the fact that it had a turbo function and had not confirmed that Bulldozer would be AM3 compatible, so why would I have assumed any of this?
April 19, 2010 11:34:11 PM

Quote:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/AMD-PHENOM-II-X4-Quad-Core-940-3-...

That will probably sell for close on £100 ($150), maybe more. I paid £150 ($230) for mine after tax and delivery brand new 14 months ago.

Seems to me I will be upgrading to Thuban at a very small cost. :) 

That auction only has less than 12 hours to go and the highest bid is £66, good luck on getting £100. :lol: 
a b à CPUs
April 19, 2010 11:42:53 PM

Chad Boga said:
That auction only has less than 12 hours to go and the highest bid is £66, good luck on getting £100. :lol: 


Be sure to keep an eye on it. :) 

Now if it was my 940 I'd sell it at 20:00 on a sunday night instead of midday on a tuesday so I know I'll get more for mine anyway. This one here should reach close to £100 though.
April 19, 2010 11:46:38 PM

jennyh said:
Be sure to keep an eye on it. :) 

Now if it was my 940 I'd sell it at 20:00 on a sunday night instead of midday on a tuesday so I know I'll get more for mine anyway. This one here should reach close to £100 though.

Once Thuban is out, all Quad Core PhII's will be of less value, as they are no longer examples of AMD's premium desktop CPU's.
a b à CPUs
April 19, 2010 11:49:36 PM

You'd be surprised actually.

I sold an Athlon 6000+ for 75% of what I bought it for 2 years later, because it had the reputation of being the fastest AMD chip.

The 940 BE also has that reputation, and it's also the fastest AM2 cpu AMD ever released. These chips hold their value really well.
April 19, 2010 11:51:35 PM

jennyh said:
You'd be surprised actually.

I sold an Athlon 6000+ for 75% of what I bought it for 2 years later, because it had the reputation of being the fastest AMD chip.

The 940 BE also has that reputation, and it's also the fastest AM2 cpu AMD ever released. These chips hold their value really well.

Will you be selling yours on Ebay?
April 19, 2010 11:58:23 PM

Reminds me that i had (maybe one of the fastest) AMD X2 5000+ non-BE
CPU,s, was able to get her to 3.6ghz under water, and stable.

Still have it too. :) 
a b à CPUs
April 19, 2010 11:59:47 PM

I don't know yet. I'll probably use it in my old AM2 770 mobo like I said earlier. That will allow me to sell this Q6600 and p35 mobo I'm using.

So I'll have an X6 with 790GX and an X4 with 770 mobo. It's the beauty of upgrading with two pc's, because it feels like I'm upgrading both for the cost of one cpu. :) 
!