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I5-750 vs i7-860 (or i7-920) 3+ yrs down the road- which will hold up?

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April 21, 2010 6:58:49 PM

The short version: As a mid-level user, f I spend an extra $100 on the i7-860 over the i5-750, is the hyperthreading or anything else going to add a year to the lifespan of the machine (aka stretch it from 6 yrs to 7 til I need to buy a new box)?

The long version:

Hi. I've been doing my research (you guys' discussions are great) and have pretty much narrowed it down to getting an i5-750 or an i7-860 (or possibly an i7-920). I sadly am no longer a power user, and use this mostly for some basic Photoshoppery, dvd-ripping, photos/music. Some occasional gaming but that's no longer a priority :(  Most of the discussions here revolve around: are you looking for gaming, in which case hyper-threading is not necessary, etc....

However, I haven't seen my specific case discussed: I am really looking for something that will hold up well for 4, 5, 6 years. So it seems like it really doesn't make a difference what processor I choose NOW, since I'm not a power user and most software doesn't really take advantage of features like hyperthreading yet.

But what will I most likely get the most advantage out of a few years down the road, when I am trying to rip a Blu-Ray II disc and load 5,000 JPGs into Picasa 2015 at the same time? That is to say, if I spend an extra $100 on the i7-860, is that going to add a year to the lifespan of the machine?

Here is the build I am looking at (on sale for -$409 at Dell). Any comments are welcome. (I realize that going through Dell will limit upgradability, but I'm not sure I have the time right now to spend 10+ hrs researching and building my own machine).

Thanks in advance to any replies!

Studio XPS 8100, Genuine Windows® 7 Home Premium, 64Bit, English Unit Price $1,476.00 (Save $409 = $1,069)

Catalog Number: 29 DXDONP1
Genuine Windows® 7 Home Premium, 64Bit, English
Intel® Core™ i5-750 processor(8MB Cache, 2.66GHz)
8GB Dual Channel DDR3 SDRAM at 1333MHz - 4 DIMMs
23.0" Dell ST2310 Full HD Monitor with VGA cable
nVIDIA GeForce G310 512MB DDR3
1TB - 7200RPM, SATA 3.0Gb/s, 16MB Cache
Dual Drives: 16x DVD-ROM Drive + 16x DVD+/-RW w/ dbl layer write capable
Sound: THX® TruStudio PC™
Dell AX210 Stereo Speakers

More about : 750 860 920 yrs road hold

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April 21, 2010 8:04:46 PM

Should you spend an extra hundred bucks given a choice between the i5 750 and i7 860? My answer is yes because you mentioned ripping and encosing HD video and that means you will need the extra 4 threads to save time.

Those parts you listed you can buy for around $700 and build it youself.

Most computer enthusiasts, gamers and power users, upgrade about every 18 months to 2 years. In 4 years, your computer will have the processing power of a Celeron or Atom (will be weak, can only the most basic tasks). In 5 years, a mainstream CPU will probably be a hexacore or octacore.

Build your own system and save major cash and you won't have the hassle of trying to upgrade a Dell system.
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April 21, 2010 9:15:13 PM

Yeah, looks like HT will benefit you so the 860 sounds about right.

I wouldn't go for the 920 unless you'll benefit from 1366's perks (doesn't look like it).

Technically if you want the longest life out of your motherboard you'd go for 1366, but considering you want to be most future proof with all listed components then 1156 should do ya fine.
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Anonymous
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April 21, 2010 9:17:06 PM

OK, thanks. Any links to a good place to get started with building my own system with the 860? I'm at the level of experience where I have set of Torx screws and have cleaned my heat sink, replaced cpu/drives/memory, etc..., but never touched a soldering iron.
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April 21, 2010 9:38:16 PM

Its all good, you just need a screw driver and you're good to go! The place most of us use to pick out our parts is Newegg.com. You should be able to find a tutorial online (google/youtube) for putting the parts together, its all bolt(screw)/clip on so no worries. Your motherboard manual will help a lot when assembling a PC, and actually it (and your case manual) may be enough info to take you through the entire process.

Pick out some parts and post them up in the New System Build section of the forums and they can help you pick out the best parts for your needs and pocket. :) 
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April 21, 2010 10:34:12 PM

If you're worried about the long term then an i7-920 and an X58 board would be the way to go. Seems LGA 1156 may be replaced before LGA 1366, but we'll see. You could also upgrade to 6-core LGA1366 CPUs down the road.
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April 22, 2010 2:28:15 AM

If its a toss up between the 750 or 860 I'd say neither. Go for the Xeon X3440. You will save money compared to the 860 and unlike the i5 chip it has HT. Plus its supposed to overclock just as high as either so the slightly lower clock speed means nothing.

P55 may be getting replaced next year (same as probably 1366) but it won't be obsolete.
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Anonymous
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April 22, 2010 3:04:41 PM

Thanks for all the tips. I think if I were to go the build-my-own route I'd probably take everything more seriously, future-proofwise and go with the 920 for the 1366.

However, I think building my own at the moment is not something I have time to do. I tend to be perfectionist about things so I am pretty sure we'd be talking hours of research plus lots of "whoops, wrong screws, need a longer ribbon, etc..." since it would be my first time. It would probably be a lot of fun, but I just don't think I'll have the time to dedicate to it this summer.

Plus, the $400 off sale on either of the 2 cpus i've been looking at really cuts the benefit of building my own at this point...

So I guess the question for me really still is, with normal use (not a ton of encoding, just some, but more multitasking), will i be able to stretch another 6-12 months out of the machine with an 860 before I start to get frustrated at the machine's responsiveness.
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April 22, 2010 3:32:45 PM

Quote:
Thanks for all the tips. I think if I were to go the build-my-own route I'd probably take everything more seriously, future-proofwise and go with the 920 for the 1366.

However, I think building my own at the moment is not something I have time to do. I tend to be perfectionist about things so I am pretty sure we'd be talking hours of research plus lots of "whoops, wrong screws, need a longer ribbon, etc..." since it would be my first time. It would probably be a lot of fun, but I just don't think I'll have the time to dedicate to it this summer.

Plus, the $400 off sale on either of the 2 cpus i've been looking at really cuts the benefit of building my own at this point...

So I guess the question for me really still is, with normal use (not a ton of encoding, just some, but more multitasking), will i be able to stretch another 6-12 months out of the machine with an 860 before I start to get frustrated at the machine's responsiveness.

Id say you would be frustrated from day one: nVIDIA GeForce G310 512MB DDR3
slowest video card on the current market. You can see it here, its the 210, rebadged for vendors, easily located at the bottom of every chart.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gt-220,2445...
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April 22, 2010 5:51:14 PM

Sure on paper it looks like a good deal to see $400 off the price tag = $1400 - $400 = $1000.

"Seems" like you will save a lot of money.

On closer look, you will need a second hard drive (the systems works better if you encode to a second drive, not on the same drive as the OS) and maybe a second DVD-R (to be more productive and burn more than one copy at a time).

A second TB hard drive is around $80 and DVD-R is $25. A small cost compared to the initial grand you will spend. Will the Dell mobo have 2 extra SATA ports and will it's power supply be enough in case you want to add a 3D card for occasional gaming?

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Anonymous
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April 22, 2010 10:24:53 PM

Quote:
Id say you would be frustrated from day one: nVIDIA GeForce G310 512MB DDR3


Yeah, I figured it would be a bad card, although I didn't realize just how bad. My thought was that as soon as I decide to start gaming, or even right away, I'd toss that one and buy a decent card. If I made it a yr or two I figure I'd be able to get what is now considered a pretty solid card for under $100. Even if I were to upgrade now, and try to get something that would last, say 3 yrs with light gaming and light vid-watching, does it make sense to go with any of their other options? My googling tells me that there are better $50-$100 options than the 5450 and GT220. The GTX260 is out of my price range, and the GTS240 is OEM

  • nVIDIA GeForce G310 512MB DDR3 [Included in Price]
  • ATI Radeon HD 5450 1GB DDR3 [Add $50.00]
  • 1024MB nVidia GeForce GT220 [Add $50.00]
  • nVidia GeForce GTS240 1024MB GDDR3 [Add $130.00]
  • nVidia GeForce GTX260 1792MB GDDR3 [Add $230.00]

    Monitor is 23" 1920x1080 btw...
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    April 22, 2010 10:53:19 PM

    Don't buy any mid-top range cpu before monday otherwise you'll be kicking yourself.
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    Anonymous
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    April 23, 2010 1:33:49 AM

    Interesting. What's happening Monday - new cpu's being released?
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    April 23, 2010 1:45:54 AM

    AMD is releasing new chips. Intel will most likely adjust its prices a bit soon after.
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    April 23, 2010 2:25:31 AM

    Yes I agree. The AMD's Thuban 6 core will be released monday. If all goes as planned.

    Not only is there a good chance for a price adjustment, but the X6 itself becomes an option worth considering for your task. My rule of thumb has been that unless your gaming, more cores is almost always the better choice in the long run.

    I would just wait and see what the market looks like in 2 weeks.
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    Anonymous
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    April 23, 2010 6:17:28 AM

    Any thoughts on whether it's worth $50 or $100 for a less-crappy gpu, given those selections? vs waiting a year or two...
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    April 24, 2010 4:41:54 AM

    Quote:
    Any thoughts on whether it's worth $50 or $100 for a less-crappy gpu, given those selections? vs waiting a year or two...

    At those prices, get a new card on your own, they are giving you the 310 for free (they should be since its worthless) and charging full price for that listing + installation costs. the gtx 260 is $200 all day long on newegg. the 5450 is $35 (with a $10 rebate).
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    Anonymous
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    April 27, 2010 2:57:49 AM

    So -

    1) I didn't see an AMD announcement today that seemed to be related. Is there an update on that?
    Quote:
    AMD is releasing new chips. Intel will most likely adjust its prices a bit soon after.


    2) All the posts above that are cited as Anonymous are mine (I am the OP, kghastie). I have been unable to validate my email despite multiple attempts, and that account expired. The moderators have been... less than helpful, so if anyone knows of what I can do (since this account, too is about to expire), it sure would be helpful.

    3) I am leaning toward building myself an i5-750 (my first from-scratch build). I'll post some links below - I'd love any comments or help since I don't really know what I'm doing. I'll add links and details in the next post...
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    April 27, 2010 3:35:28 AM

    i5 is a great chip. I think you would really like any of the choices.

    The Phenom X6's have released and can be bought, however I haven't seen reviews/announcements either.
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    April 27, 2010 7:36:15 AM

    Here's the build, and below are some comments. I picked a lot of this stuff off NewEgg based on what I figured would be good, and trying to stay safe with Top Sellers.

    All products are linked to here: NewEgg i5-750 Wishlist

    $200 Intel Core i5-750 Lynnfield 2.66GHz LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80605I5750
    $133 GIGABYTE GA-P55A-UD3 LGA 1156 Intel P55 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
    $ 50 POWERCOLOR AX4650 512MD2-H Radeon HD 4650 512MB 128-bit DDR2 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card
    $120 G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL8D-4GBRM
    $ 80 Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 ST31000528AS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
    $ 32 LITE-ON 24X DVD Writer Black SATA Model iHAS424-98 LightScribe Support
    $ 90 RAIDMAX SMILODON ATX-612WBP Black 1.0mm SECC Steel ATX Mid Tower Foldout MB Computer Case With 500W Power Supply
    $180 Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium Full
    $ 10 Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound
    Subtotal: $890

    Goals I'm thinking of going with a "what I need now" build. Priority: Being able to maintain a speedy system without spending too much time/money over the long run. Day-to-day usage with heavy multi-tasking, but no gaming in the near future, and only a little bit of intense things like editing photos (and I'm talking with like CS2 or Picasa) and light DVD-copying. Really, I'm just sick of flash shutting down my whole machine (Toshiba p25-s607 desktop replacement), and I want to avoid that for as long as possible with my next machine.

    CPU/mobo I know nothing about mobos. I don't feel the need to go a step below the 750, since it sounds like that is a pretty good value. However, it sounds like it's not a sure thing that I'll end up getting a whole lot more in the long run from an i7-920, even considering the 1336 socket seeming like it might have more longevity. Doubt I'll overclock unless it seems pretty simple, but it doesn't seem like a high priority considering I'm not a gamer. Do I want SATA 6Gb/s support?

    It's been pointed out that 4 yrs from now or whenever I decide to replace the cpu, having a 1336 mobo vs 1156 may not increase my machine's longevity. On the other hand, I hear that the 1336 may have more longevity, although I don't know all the reasons why. Also, I might benefit from HT and 6-core with a socket 1336, since I claim multi-tasking to be a goal. Not sure about this, but it seems like a tossup and that I'll be ok either way.

    GPU I know nothing about GPU selection. Considering that I am not a gamer, I am planning to scrimp on the gpu for now. Is this a pretty decent *low-end* card to get? As in, can I play WoW at 1920x1080 with it? Or can I get to the point where I can play, say, Starcraft II at 1920x1080 with full graphics for under $100-$125? In that case I might consider going up a notch. How much memory do I need? Doubt I'll ever use 2 cards at one (unless it's a cheaper way to upgrade), so I don't think Crossfire matters to me.

    RAM Don't think I'll need > 4GB for a while. Might start with 6GB if I went with a i7-920 build, but for i5-750 I plan to go with 4 then go up to 8 in a few years when I need it.

    HDD 500 TB should be enough for me for now. Would like to be able to add 1-2 more internal drives as I grow weary of my old USB 2.0 external drives.

    DVD I'm tired of ripping DVDs and not being able to burn them back without using DVDShrink. I'm hoping dual-layer will fix that for me. I think that's what the DL means?

    Case I know nothing about cases. I picked this one because it was a Top Seller on New Egg and came with a power supply. Does 500W seem adequate? Is it a bad idea to go with a combo like this? Any advise on Case/Power Supply/Cooling? Would like to be able to fit 2-3 total internal HDDs eventually.

    What else am I missing? Cables? Thermal paste? I have a set of Torx drivers....

    BTW the i7-920 build I'm considering is similar but contains 3 differences. All products are linked to here: NewEgg i7-920 Wishlist

    $280 Intel Core i7-920 Bloomfield 2.66GHz LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80601920
    $200 GIGABYTE GA-X58A-UD3R LGA 1366 Intel X58 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
    $170 G.SKILL 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Triple Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9T-6GBNQ

    Subtotal: $1089 (about $200 more than the it-750)

    Lastly, here is my list of alternate items I was considering: NewEgg Alternates Wishlist

    Thanks to ALL commenters thus far! No way I'd be considering doing this if it weren't for everyone on this and other forums....
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    April 27, 2010 8:07:29 AM

    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-phenom-ii-x6-10...

    Quote:
    As a result, it’s easy to recommend the Phenom II X6 1090T for folks able to employ its six cores. Video work, threaded Photoshop filters, rendering—in those workloads, AMD’s new flagship is, in many cases, able to keep up with the quad-core Core i7-975.
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    April 27, 2010 5:14:30 PM

    Yeah, I'm not really looking to complicate things by bringing another more expensive processor into it (although if it were hands down a better option then I suppose I should consider it). Is there something in particular that I should be taking from that post? Especially since I am probably not going to be able to take advantage of it's six cores any time soon?

    Any other comments on that build? Maybe I should post it in a new thread, as it is straying a bit off-topic.
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    April 27, 2010 5:27:45 PM

    kghastie said:
    Yeah, I'm not really looking to complicate things by bringing another more expensive processor into it (although if it were hands down a better option then I suppose I should consider it). Is there something in particular that I should be taking from that post? Especially since I am probably not going to be able to take advantage of it's six cores any time soon?

    Any other comments on that build? Maybe I should post it in a new thread, as it is straying a bit off-topic.

    I am really looking for something that will hold up well for 4, 5, 6 years. So it seems like it really doesn't make a difference what processor I choose NOW, since I'm not a power user and most software doesn't really take advantage of features like hyperthreading yet.

    with that in mind, it would be adviseable to see what the price difference would be with the new AMD builds. Tiger direct has a $50 MIR that expires at the end of the week for the new cpus. The future will most likely take more and more advantage of multiple threads.
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    April 27, 2010 6:09:12 PM

    Yeah, I realize that's whats coming, I guess what I was hearing was that I might be replacing just the cpu, for example, in 3 yrs, for $200, and get a way better machine, rather than dropping an extra $100 now, and maybe getting a moderately better result 3 yrs from now. Although looking at the benchmarks I've seen, it may be that there is moderately better performance to be had now. I saw some mixed reviews though, when the six cores weren't being fully utilized. I feel more comfortable with an Intel chip since I really know ZERO about AMD, but I feel like I have a decent handle on the ins and outs of the Intel chips and mobos. So there is a price to pay there, too, namely the hours I'll need to spend looking into the implications of going this new route....
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    April 27, 2010 6:21:44 PM

    kghastie said:
    Yeah, I realize that's whats coming, I guess what I was hearing was that I might be replacing just the cpu, for example, in 3 yrs, for $200, and get a way better machine, rather than dropping an extra $100 now, and maybe getting a moderately better result 3 yrs from now. Although looking at the benchmarks I've seen, it may be that there is moderately better performance to be had now. I saw some mixed reviews though, when the six cores weren't being fully utilized. I feel more comfortable with an Intel chip since I really know ZERO about AMD, but I feel like I have a decent handle on the ins and outs of the Intel chips and mobos. So there is a price to pay there, too, namely the hours I'll need to spend looking into the implications of going this new route....

    problem is, intel is going with another motherboard socket next year (kinda like the 939 of AMD). drop in cpu choices may be pretty limited, especially if you chose the i5 route. either way, 3+ years is hard to predict when it comes to software and hardware.

    IMO, safest bet if you want a drop in 3 years, would be an AM3 board with the x4 955 now, drop in a bulldozer when you get a good price on them. BD will be a much larger jump than the x6s. without being a power user, the performance between the x4 955 and the i5 750 are pretty minor. Only when looking into hardcore number crunching does the 750 kill the 955. Neither one will show any difference in gaming with that graphics card.

    If you stick with intel, go with the i7, at least you can get a 6 core cpu later, when they are affordable.

    p.s. as far as Adobe Photoshop, they need to get with the times, even a dual core i5 661 is faster than the quads. http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-r...
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    April 27, 2010 8:30:39 PM

    Any thoughts on the i5-750 vs the new AMD Phenom II 1055T Six Core (2.80GHz)? There are good sales on the latter, so they actually cost similar (for now)!

    Which is better for RAM interfacing and for multi-tasking? The i5 has hyperthreading (4 cores, 4 threads), but the AMD 1055T has 6 cores
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    April 27, 2010 8:32:41 PM

    The i5 doesn't have hyperthreading, that's why it loses heavily in any core-optimised application.

    For future proofing, it's a no contest. Forget the i5 and get the 1055T.
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    April 27, 2010 8:35:15 PM

    The i5 750 Does not have Hyperthreading.

    In fully threaded apps and at stock clocks, the PII would stomp the i5.
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    April 27, 2010 8:35:58 PM

    Definitely get the 1090T or 1055T for your uses. In 3+ years there will be a lot of core optimized applications and games out and in these environments, the 1090T and 1055T smoke any quadcore out there while being 300-500% cheaper than Intel's hexacore.
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    April 27, 2010 8:48:03 PM

    hundredislandsboy said:

    Those parts you listed you can buy for around $700 and build it youself.



    I would agree, but once you add in Windows 7, wi-fi card, 19-1 card reader, keyboard, mouse, and a monitor that $700 is probably about the same as a Dell, without a 2 year warranty.

    I built my college computer 6 years ago and it was all fun and games, but as an adult i also dont have time to tweak and troubleshoot like i used to. I bought one of these 8100's recently and its been worth every penny. If and when i do feel like upgrading a component, i have the knowledge to do so, but starting from scratch can be daunting, time consuming, expensive if you mess it up, and to tell you the truth i have yet to find an empty case that is half as attractive as a Dell. The XPS 8100 (and 9000)'s look and functionality are great with the extra USB and card ports on top and a recessed tray. Every single case on newegg is fugly.

    I vote you have someone else build your comp and guarantee it for a few years it, then you can play with upgrades on your own all you want later.
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    April 27, 2010 10:02:32 PM

    Quote:
    the 1090T and 1055T smoke any quadcore


    So what am I missing here? Why is AMD so much cheaper if it's so mind-blowingly awesome?

    And while it's great that it is 3-400% cheaper than a hexacore, that's not what I'm comparing against.



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    April 27, 2010 10:10:22 PM

    kghastie said:
    Quote:
    the 1090T and 1055T smoke any quadcore


    So what am I missing here? Why is AMD so much cheaper if it's so mind-blowingly awesome?

    And while it's great that it is 3-400% cheaper than a hexacore, that's not what I'm comparing against.


    It is cheaper because AMD doesn't have NEARLY the same market share and therefor must price their products accordingly.
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    April 27, 2010 10:17:15 PM

    kghastie said:
    Quote:
    the 1090T and 1055T smoke any quadcore


    So what am I missing here? Why is AMD so much cheaper if it's so mind-blowingly awesome?

    And while it's great that it is 3-400% cheaper than a hexacore, that's not what I'm comparing against.


    You actually believe that more expensive = better? Dear oh dear. I'll give you a strong hint kghastie - intel made $2bn profit last quarter while AMD made $200m profit.

    Do you think the higher cost of intel cpu's is going towards making better, faster, cpu's - or is it going into intel shareholder pockets?

    If that was the case, and intel were putting their profits towards making faster cpus' - they would be 10x faster, not slower like they are.
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    April 27, 2010 10:51:21 PM

    kghastie said:
    Quote:
    the 1090T and 1055T smoke any quadcore


    So what am I missing here? Why is AMD so much cheaper if it's so mind-blowingly awesome?

    And while it's great that it is 3-400% cheaper than a hexacore, that's not what I'm comparing against.

    Firstly you have some people outright lying to you and others just merely misguided.

    I haven't had time to put it into a readable format, but the 1090T is almost the equal of the i7-860 overall, and thus obviously better in somethings, worse in others.

    However let me address the egregious nonsense that the 1055T will smoke any quadcore.


    http://www.anandtech.com/print/3674

    ................................1055T.......860........%Faster

    Adobe Photoshop..........20.1......16.4.........1.225609756
    DivX............................43.7.......35.9.........1.217270195
    x264....1st Pass............79.........76............0.962025316
    ...........2nd Pass...........25.1.......26.8.........1.067729084
    3dsmax 9.....................12.7........15..........1.181102362
    Cinebench...Multi.........16268......16598......1.020285223
    Pov Ray.......................3296.......3517.......1.067050971
    WinRar.........................95..........79.6........1.193467337
    7-Zip 32mb.................15339....18008.6....1.174039.....* i7-870 used in review and adjusted for here
    ..........300mb..............3084.......3885........1.259727626
    FO3............................80.4........90.2.........1.121890547
    L4D...........................111.5.......131..........1.174887892
    Crysis.........................72.4........83.3.........1.150552486
    Batman.......................180........180.43......1.0002387.....* i7-870 used in review and adjusted for here
    Dragon Age.................102.........149.11.....1.461863....* i7-870 used in review and adjusted for here
    Dawn of War 2.............52.8.......69.3..........1.3125.....* i7-870 used in review and adjusted for here

    Average speed advantage for the i7-860 over the 1055T = 16.2%



    Please note the following, where the Anandtech review had an i7-870 and no i7-860 in the review, I adjusted the i7-870's score downwards by 4.75% which is the full clock speed difference between and i7-870 and i7-860, and thus very generous to the Thuban.

    In the above benchmarks I wasn't able to take into account SYSMark as Anandtech didn't bench the 1055T.

    Also excluded from the above benchmarks is the Cinebench Single Thread result in which the i7-860 dominated over the 1055T.

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    April 28, 2010 6:19:29 AM

    Chad Boga said:
    Firstly you have some people outright lying to you and others just merely misguided.

    I haven't had time to put it into a readable format, but the 1090T is almost the equal of the i7-860 overall, and thus obviously better in somethings, worse in others.

    However let me address the egregious nonsense that the 1055T will smoke any quadcore.


    http://www.anandtech.com/print/3674

    ................................1055T.......860........%Faster

    Adobe Photoshop..........20.1......16.4.........1.225609756
    DivX............................43.7.......35.9.........1.217270195
    x264....1st Pass............79.........76............0.962025316
    ...........2nd Pass...........25.1.......26.8.........1.067729084
    3dsmax 9.....................12.7........15..........1.181102362
    Cinebench...Multi.........16268......16598......1.020285223
    Pov Ray.......................3296.......3517.......1.067050971
    WinRar.........................95..........79.6........1.193467337
    7-Zip 32mb.................15339....18008.6....1.174039.....* i7-870 used in review and adjusted for here
    ..........300mb..............3084.......3885........1.259727626
    FO3............................80.4........90.2.........1.121890547
    L4D...........................111.5.......131..........1.174887892
    Crysis.........................72.4........83.3.........1.150552486
    Batman.......................180........180.43......1.0002387.....* i7-870 used in review and adjusted for here
    Dragon Age.................102.........149.11.....1.461863....* i7-870 used in review and adjusted for here
    Dawn of War 2.............52.8.......69.3..........1.3125.....* i7-870 used in review and adjusted for here

    Average speed advantage for the i7-860 over the 1055T = 16.2%



    Please note the following, where the Anandtech review had an i7-870 and no i7-860 in the review, I adjusted the i7-870's score downwards by 4.75% which is the full clock speed difference between and i7-870 and i7-860, and thus very generous to the Thuban.

    In the above benchmarks I wasn't able to take into account SYSMark as Anandtech didn't bench the 1055T.

    Also excluded from the above benchmarks is the Cinebench Single Thread result in which the i7-860 dominated over the 1055T.

    Some people will blow as much smoke as they can, in both direcetions, such as chad here, cherry picking benches and pitting a $280 cpu up against a $199 cpu ($150 with rebate).
    lets take the cost in his example, for 16% performance, you pay 40% more (or 86% more with rebate)

    Upgrade path of the 1136 socket? quad or dual core, so basically all the cpus are out that will be available. Intel already said its not a high end socket and there will be no 6 core cpus for it. drop in cpu in 3 years? forget it.
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    April 28, 2010 7:37:32 AM

    noob2222 said:
    Some people will blow as much smoke as they can, in both direcetions, such as chad here, cherry picking benches and pitting a $280 cpu up against a $199 cpu ($150 with rebate).
    lets take the cost in his example, for 16% performance, you pay 40% more (or 86% more with rebate)

    You should pay more attention and stop spreading lies.

    I haven't cherry picked anything, that is the full Anandtech review results(except for the single threaded Cinebench result which massively favoured Intel).

    You have had people in this thread claiming that the 1055T will smoke any Quad Core, all I did was expose the lie.

    If they had made an argument for price performance, that is one thing, but to make a blanket claim like that to a noob, well I had to make sure the noob wasn't led astray by lies and distortions(the kind you are also seeking to foster).
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    April 28, 2010 11:14:11 AM

    So how come you keep using Anandtech's benches Chad? Could it be because Anandtech gave one of the least generous reviews to Thuban on the entire web?

    Also 4.75% slower? How much slower is the 860 compared to the 870 here Chad?



    That looks closer to 10% slower to me, I think somebody is lying about the performance gap between the 870 and 860. Now if you want to go redo your figures with a 10% gap instead of a 4.75% gap, be sure to let us know the results.
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    April 28, 2010 11:56:37 AM

    We were referring to fully threaded apps (> 4 threads) and the i5 (no HT) at stock clocks. Under those conditions, I still think the X6 would win. Now stomp was an exaggeration.
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    April 28, 2010 6:20:58 PM

    So I'm glad to hear people have strong opinions both ways (I don't see any malice here, though, just people forcing each other to dig into their positions).

    Here are the sections of the review that I found most relevant to my current situation:
    Quote:
    SYSMark really taxes two cores most of the time, giving the edge to Lynnfield and its aggressive turbo modes. Lightly threaded or mixed workloads won't do so well on the Phenom II X6....

    Applications like video encoding and offline 3D rendering show the real strengths of the Phenom II X6.... The 1090T can easily trump the Core i7 860 and the 1055T can do even better against the Core i5 750....

    You start running into problems when you look at lightly threaded applications or mixed workloads that aren't always stressing all six cores. In these situations Intel's quad-core Lynnfield processors (Core i5 700 series and Core i7 800 series) are better buys. They give you better performance in these light or mixed workload scenarios....

    If you're building a task specific box that will mostly run heavily threaded applications, AMD will sell you nearly a billion transistors for under $300 and you can't go wrong. If it's a more general purpose machine that you're assembling, Lynnfield seems like a better option.

    As far as my purposes go, it looks like an Intel chip is still the way to go for me, mostly because, although I said I do some light video encoding, etc..., the speed of that is something that I will appreciate, but would never cause me to finally give up on a machine and decide to upgrade. The key factor in that decision (and hence my decision now), is much more mundane day-to-day activity.

    So while yes, every day apps might be taking advantage of six cores a few years down the road, that doesn't seem that likely to me. And for now, it seems, at least according to the Anandtech review, Lynnfield will actually perform better for my purposes, and at a somewhat lower price. So what is the point of paying marginally more to possibly get worse performance now, in the hope of getting better performance down the road?

    I do wonder where the i7-920 falls in the discussion? Seems still like the i7-860 is in a bad limbo territory for me, since it doesn't get me to an 1336 mobo. But maybe HT is all I need to gain some of the benefits that have been discussed here...
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    April 28, 2010 6:43:33 PM

    Tiger Direct is not selling anymore at that price, I went in live chat. They will be available again when the rebates over. So we can stop calling it a 150 dollar cpu, unless Microcenter's prices are valid in every argument.
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    April 28, 2010 6:58:25 PM

    First, I would have bought the Dell. They are VERY easy to upgrade...video cards, memory, hard drive. They have great power supplies (yes, the watts are low compared to much of the market, but Dell rates on mean load, not peak load. Check the 12v rails...plenty of power). At the price of that Dell Studio, I could never have justifived the cost savings. Work ten hours fixing people's networks=$500. To spend the time building my own would cost me $200. Everyone's situation is different, and some take more time than others. Like you, I know if I start overclocking, it will take me forever due to being meticulous and feeling the urge to squeeze every last hertz out of the beast.

    If you are building your own, I'd drop a i920 in there. Skip the overclocking equipment & just run it at stock. Save the money and in 2-3 years when the i980x are a bargain, drop one of those in. You could do the same with a much cheaper AM3 cpu setup. If you aren't overclocking, dropping in a new CPU is really quite easy.
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    April 28, 2010 7:26:15 PM

    FYI if you live near a Microcenter, the i7 860 is on sale there for $200 this week. ;) 
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    April 28, 2010 7:48:31 PM

    jennyh said:
    So how come you keep using Anandtech's benches Chad? Could it be because Anandtech gave one of the least generous reviews to Thuban on the entire web?

    Because Anandtech is the premier review site on the web. Jumping Jack has pointed out he was always able to recreate the Anandtech benchmark review scores, whereas that was not the case with a number of other sites.

    Perhaps these lesser sites are either fudging the figures or just plain incompetent.

    As for least generous, I haven't read that many other reviews yet, when I get the time I will compile more figures, but the 3 sites I like best are Anandtech, The Tech Report and Hardware Canucks.

    Quote:
    Also 4.75% slower? How much slower is the 860 compared to the 870 here Chad?

    Anandtech's own review of the i7-860 shows that for povray, the i7-870 is only 2.44% faster than the i7-860

    http://www.anandtech.com/show/2839/5

    Quote:
    That looks closer to 10% slower to me

    Leaving aside that is a second rate site, show me more than 1 benchmark from them in order to determine the performance metric, not your dumb single cherry picking.

    Quote:
    I think somebody is lying about the performance gap between the 870 and 860.

    Yes, you are lying, again.

    Quote:
    Now if you want to go redo your figures with a 10% gap instead of a 4.75% gap, be sure to let us know the results.

    If I were as dishonest and dishonorable as you, I would redo my figures with a 2.44% gap, choosing to be the slime that you were to select one cherry picked result.

    Honest Chad, as always, was more than fair and credible, something you will never be.
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    April 28, 2010 8:21:09 PM

    Chad Boga said:
    Perhaps these lesser sites are either fudging the figures or just plain incompetent.



    Perhaps they are paid AMD shills, eh? (Are you going to mention the Smoothness of Intel processors now?)

    -=-=-=-=-

    In the past on this forum if somebody posted Pro-AMD benchmarks from a few reviewers that contradicted the majority of other reviews available those posters were ridiculed and deemed to be irrational by the Intel Majority Fanboys. (I.M.F.)

    Now you are attempting to do the same thing in reverse. Let us know how that works out for you. Be careful or the IMF will disavow any knowledge of you.


    Chad Boga said:
    As for least generous, I haven't read that many other reviews yet,


    It is not unusual for you to be posting before you actually have all of the facts.
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    Best solution

    April 28, 2010 8:49:35 PM

    EXT64 said:
    i5 is a great chip. I think you would really like any of the choices.

    The Phenom X6's have released and can be bought, however I haven't seen reviews/announcements either.


    I've just written a review in the new Phenom 1055T and the 1090T hexacore CPUs. I can tell you, the Phenom x6 1090T, i7 860 and 920 have almost the same performance. But the Phenom x6 1090T beats the i7 860 and ties with an overclocked i7 920 (3.2GHZ). The i7 920 requires an 1336 motherboard, which supports triple channel memory, rather than dual channel on the i7 860's motherboard requirements. The Phenom x6 requires an AM3 motherboard which also supports triple channel memory.

    My suggestion, go for the new Phenom II x6 1090T for $309 at Newegg with free shipping, because it's faster than the i7 920 stock speed and it supports triple channel memory. It's also a lot cheaper.
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    April 28, 2010 9:00:32 PM

    MrRichard said:
    I've just written a review in the new Phenom 1055T and the 1090T hexacore CPUs. I can tell you, the Phenom x6 1090T, i7 860 and 920 have almost the same performance. But the Phenom x6 1090T beats the i7 860 and ties with an overclocked i7 920 (3.2GHZ).


    So the 1090T is about the same speed as an i7 965 is what you are saying? :D 
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    April 28, 2010 9:02:18 PM

    Chad Boga said:
    Honest Chad, as always, was more than fair and credible, something you will never be.


    I swear I almost wet myself laughing there.

    Honest Chad LOL. Trust me 'honest Chad', that one won't be catching on. :lol: 
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    April 28, 2010 9:53:47 PM

    keithlm said:
    Perhaps they are paid AMD shills, eh? (Are you going to mention the Smoothness of Intel processors now?)

    You are a strange man Keith, not sure what point you think you are making here.

    Quote:
    In the past on this forum if somebody posted Pro-AMD benchmarks from a few reviewers that contradicted the majority of other reviews available those posters were ridiculed and deemed to be irrational by the Intel Majority Fanboys. (I.M.F.)

    Now you are attempting to do the same thing in reverse. Let us know how that works out for you. Be careful or the IMF will disavow any knowledge of you.

    :lol:  That makes even less sense than your usual dribble.

    Quote:
    It is not unusual for you to be posting before you actually have all of the facts.

    And it is not unusual for you to be posting without any of the facts.
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    April 28, 2010 9:59:40 PM

    jennyh said:
    I swear I almost wet myself laughing there.

    Honest Chad LOL. Trust me 'honest Chad', that one won't be catching on. :lol: 


    Oh but it will. :D 

    Unlike you, there is a logical consistency to what I say and do.

    When the i7-920 was all the rage with overclockers, I said that overclocking wasn't that important to me, I valued performance at a processors specified speed(s), as I didn't want to void my warranty nor risk shortening the life of my processor.

    What were you saying about overclocking at the time? Answer = You were trying to avoid the topic.

    When AMD improves it's overclocking abilities, I haven't changed my position, but now overclocking is the most important thing for the AMDroids.
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    April 28, 2010 10:03:31 PM

    Overclocking has always been important, who doesn't like free stuff??

    Most of us are just very pleasantly surprised at how well these overclock. 6 cores past 4ghz Chad, that's good no matter how you pretend otherwise.

    And you can say that those 6 cores are just as good as intels 4 cores, but the truth - the truth that we both know - is that the AMD's are simply being held back by software.

    On a hardware level, Thuban is light years ahead of the 45nm i7's. 2 real cores are just worth so much more than 4 fake ones, and when more software catches up...well it will be even more apparent then. :) 
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