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PhysX vs. DX11

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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February 7, 2010 7:25:28 PM

Which do you think is more beneficial for the next one year?

I think PhysX is far more beneficial for the next year because it is already in many PC games that are already out, and it adds to the visual experience of the game at virtually no performance hit at all. Whereas, I think DX11 is only used in one game so far, and by the time DX11 becomes more popular, even the fastest DX11 video cards out right now will be considered old and slow. Therefore, I don't see any point in a DX11 video card at this time.

Opinions?

More about : physx dx11

a b U Graphics card
February 7, 2010 7:28:46 PM

For the next year? I'd go with DX11 because both ATI and NVidia cards will be using it. PhysX is nice, but game developers can make equally good or better physics simulations making PhysX unimportant (Crysis, for example).
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a b U Graphics card
February 7, 2010 7:37:41 PM

Wait for Fermi, which has DX11 and PhysX? :) 

If you already have a PhysX capable card you could get an HD 5000 series card and get both if thats what you prefer.

If you dont want to wait then get a 5000 series card, I see no point in getting the more expensive, lesser performing higher end (285, 295) Nvidia cards as ATIs cards are better in every way. Mid and lower range cards form both companys are evenly matched.
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a b U Graphics card
February 7, 2010 7:59:59 PM

Useless thread is useless.
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a b U Graphics card
February 7, 2010 8:00:31 PM

And yes I will still post in it just to state the obvious.

Useless thread is useless.
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February 7, 2010 8:07:43 PM

^+1 strangestranger
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February 8, 2010 12:08:39 AM

Does only nvidia have phys-x?
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a b U Graphics card
February 8, 2010 12:23:42 AM

Lets just say, games having gpu physx will be outnumbered by DX11 games by the end of the year, and therell be many more DX11 games coming after that than any physx games.
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a c 272 U Graphics card
February 8, 2010 12:31:26 AM

Mustang5521 said:
it adds to the visual experience of the game at virtually no performance hit at all


I don't know where you get that from, but you're wrong.
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a b U Graphics card
February 8, 2010 1:16:45 AM

Well, lets start by saying that unless you have a decent dedicated PhysX card, you will see a large performance hit. Second, PhysX adds almost nothing to games at this point. Third, you are getting the PhysX API and PhysX GPU acceleration confused. There are a lot of games that use the PhysX API, but only about 5 games that support the GPU acceleration and even they don't see a large benefit. PhysX GPU acceleration is useless as it is proprietary, where as DX11 will be able to do the same on any DX11 card, ATI or nVidia. Also, modern CPUs are more than up to the task of doing everything any PhysX GPU acceleration can, but are usually locked out for marketing. Lastly, DX11 is the future and PhysX is the past.

Move along.
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a b U Graphics card
February 8, 2010 2:47:24 AM

Fermi will have both.
Ding Ding.....that sound you heard was Nividia scoring a Knockout !
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a b U Graphics card
February 8, 2010 2:57:24 AM

Sometimes I just wonder if notty isn't just being sarcastic.

I mean its been explained a thousand times...
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a b U Graphics card
February 8, 2010 3:16:26 AM

Some want to deny that Physx is a real world impact gaming technology, but it is.
Evga markets motherboards and supports it. Heres a newegg combo.
EVGA P55/PhysX SuperCombo Kit
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?I...


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a c 217 U Graphics card
February 8, 2010 3:24:37 AM

How many games do you own that has GPU enhanced PhysX effects?

I own one: Sacred 2.
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a b U Graphics card
February 8, 2010 3:49:48 AM

EVGA is just using PhysX as a market ploy to increase its sales or Intel saying it "runs better on an i7" or Asus saying their monitors are certified to run with Windows Vista.
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a c 272 U Graphics card
February 8, 2010 3:57:29 AM

bystander said:
How many games do you own that has GPU enhanced PhysX effects?

I own one: Sacred 2.


Batman AA
Bionic Commando: Rearmed
GRAW 1 &2
Bet on Soldier: Blood Sport
Brothers in Arms: Hell's Highway
Cryostasis
Darkest of Days
Frontlines: Fuel of War
Mass Effect
Need for Speed: Shift
Shadowgrounds Survivor
Space Siege
The Stalin Subway
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Vegas 2
Turok
Unreal Tournament 3
X-men Origins: Wolverine
those are the ones I've got that are on the PhysX list but as the physx indicators only appeared a few driver versions ago I can't say whether they all run on GPU or CPU PhysX.
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a c 217 U Graphics card
February 8, 2010 4:36:30 AM

Keep in mind, most of those don't use any added GPU physX enhancements. Most of those just use the physX developement kit, but don't actually add any GPU enhanced graphics. (not saying none don't, I think Mass effect does, as does Batman).
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a c 272 U Graphics card
February 8, 2010 4:48:03 AM

bystander said:
Keep in mind, most of those don't use any added GPU physX enhancements. Most of those just use the physX developement kit, but don't actually add any GPU enhanced graphics. (not saying none don't, I think Mass effect does, as does Batman).

Darkest of Days does and GRAW2 has a level that can only be accessed if an Nvidia or Aeiga is present the others I would have to re install and run with the PhysX indicators enabled to say for sure, but unlike you I'm not going to jump to the conclusion that they don't without providing evidence like screenshots of the those games with the indicators showing.
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a c 217 U Graphics card
February 8, 2010 4:50:23 AM

I have a physX capible card. I'm just being honest here. There aren't many on that list that have some added effects for having a physX card.

I only have 1 game on your list, however, which doesn't have any special physX effects.
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a c 272 U Graphics card
February 8, 2010 5:05:16 AM

bystander said:
I have a physX capible card. I'm just being honest here. There aren't many on that list that have some added effects for having a physX card.

I only have 1 game on your list, however, which doesn't have any special physX effects.

And I have two PhysX capable cards and am also being honest when I say that I have not run each and every one of those games to see if it shows as running PhysX on the CPU or GPU but then neither have you and yet you say that they don't because only a couple do and yet I have eighteen on that list alone.
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a c 217 U Graphics card
February 8, 2010 5:13:58 AM

Let me put it this way. I have the following games that are on the PhysX list of games:

Dragon Age: Origins
Gothic 3
Risen
Sacred 2
Silverfall
Two Worlds
Wolverine Origins

Only Sacred 2 has any added physX effects that are only present with an Nvidia card. And like Batman, you can't run physX on it without an nvidia card with any kind of reason.
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a c 272 U Graphics card
February 8, 2010 5:17:35 AM

bystander said:
Let me put it this way. I have the following games that are on the PhysX list of games:

Dragon Age: Origins
Gothic 3
Risen
Sacred 2
Silverfall
Two Worlds
Wolverine Origins

Only Sacred 2 has any added physX effects that are only present with an Nvidia card. And like Batman, you can't run physX on it without an nvidia card with any kind of reason.

And the others only show as running PhysX on the CPU?
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a c 217 U Graphics card
February 8, 2010 5:22:42 AM

What I was trying to do, and you so thoroughly ruined, is at least let the OP know that just because a game is on the physX list, doesn't mean it has any unique physX features for Nvidia cards.

If you wanted to be unbiased, you'd at least check your list of games to see if they have any special physX checkbox at least in the graphics options. Or play a game some to see if there was added features.

I was trying to be clear when I asked how many games you owned that have added physX features for Nvidia cards. A generic list of games using a game engine using PhysX doesn't exactly tell you if you gain anything by a physX card.

If the OP is to know what he's jumping into, he should understand this.
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a c 272 U Graphics card
February 8, 2010 5:26:44 AM

bystander said:
What I was trying to do, and you so thoroughly ruined, is at least let the OP know that just because a game is on the physX list, doesn't mean it has any unique physX features for Nvidia cards.

If you wanted to be unbiased, you'd at least check your list of games to see if they have any special physX checkbox at least in the graphics options. Or play a game some to see if there was added features.

I was trying to be clear when I asked how many games you owned that have added physX features for Nvidia cards. A generic list of games using a game engine using PhysX doesn't exactly tell you if you gain anything by a physX card.

If the OP is to know what he's jumping into, he should understand this.

But if you haven't got some of those games on my list how do you know whether there is a check box n the graphics option or not?
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a c 217 U Graphics card
February 8, 2010 5:27:12 AM

Mousemonkey said:
And the others only show as running PhysX on the CPU?


A lot of the games are using game engines that have physX support, but don't use them unless the developers want to. Some may even use a very mild amound of physX that it runs on a CPU unnoticably different. Very few games currently out there utilize the physX engine in a way that adds any special effects that necessitates a physX card (e.i. has a noticable performance hit by not having one, or not supporting the non-physX card).
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a c 217 U Graphics card
February 8, 2010 5:28:09 AM

Mousemonkey said:
But if you haven't got some of those games on my list how do you know whether there is a check box n the graphics option or not?


I'm asking you to actually check, and see yourself. You admitted to not having checked already.
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a c 272 U Graphics card
February 8, 2010 5:37:29 AM

bystander said:
I'm asking you to actually check, and see yourself. You admitted to not having checked already.

At some point I will but it isn't going to be right now but to tell people that only one or some games use it without knowing the exact number is I feel, misleading at best and totally bias at worst.
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a c 217 U Graphics card
February 8, 2010 5:39:55 AM

Mousemonkey said:
At some point I will but it isn't going to be right now but to tell people that only one or some games use it without knowing the exact number is I feel, misleading at best and totally bias at worst.


I said one of mine used it. I also said at least one or two of your list used it. I'd feel yours is just as misleading, as you didn't check any of your games other than to go to a list of games that use an engine capible of adding unique physX effects.
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a c 272 U Graphics card
February 8, 2010 5:54:19 AM

bystander said:
I said one of mine used it. I also said at least one or two of your list used it. I'd feel yours is just as misleading, as you didn't check any of your games other than to go to a list of games that use an engine capible of adding unique physX effects.

Yes you mentioned two and I mentioned two that you didn't, and that list may be generic but unless you can categorically state which ones use the GPU and which ones don't, it's all we have.
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a b U Graphics card
February 8, 2010 9:24:26 AM

Geee, let me guess, nVidia isnt exactly knockin down the door to let everyone know if its cpu limited in physx only?
And theyll claim it, but wont make it easy to know what does what?

http://www.nzone.com/object/nzone_physxgames_home.html

Theres not that many, and this is a stretch as well, titles such a PT boats etc
Maybe 17 games? Not many, for as long as its been out, while within a year DX11 will have more titles, which goes to the OPs question.
I also dont see many great titles on this list either
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a c 272 U Graphics card
February 8, 2010 9:30:43 AM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
Geee, let me guess, nVidia isnt exactly knockin down the door to let everyone know if its cpu limited in physx only?
And theyll claim it, but wont make it easy to know what does what?

http://www.nzone.com/object/nzone_physxgames_home.html

Theres not that many, and this is a stretch as well, titles such a PT boats etc
Maybe 17 games? Not many, for as long as its been out, while within a year DX11 will have more titles, which goes to the OPs question.
I also dont see many great titles on this list either

Well I have eighteen on my list and if you go to the complete list rather than the shortened list you linked to there are a couple more even when the none PC ones are ignored, and no one said they were any good just that there are quite a few.
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February 8, 2010 10:38:19 AM

I'm pretty sure jaydeejohn's link is right. After all it is straight from nvidia.

I have one game from the list that mousemonkey posted, Mass Effect, and there are no added physx enhancements needing nvidia card. No in game option or anything.

I have Batman AA and Mirror's Edge, both games that are said to have the best enhancements, and I haven't felt I was missing anything without physx. I admit that I have never played either with physx so it would hard be for me to miss something I never had. Directx 11 isn't all that much yet too, from reviews of Dirt, but I do ten to believe it has more potential, and it's an open platform, which will make it more likely to be widely adopted.

All in all, no reason to get your panties in a bunch.
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a c 125 U Graphics card
February 8, 2010 11:18:27 AM

My friend has a GTX275 and also Batman AA he says that he disables physX because he gets a hugh performance hit with it enabled.

So You either need a monster (nVidia) card or a dedicated physX card to have physX enabled. Which is fine if you have an old nVidia card you can use for physX and don't mind the extra heat and power usage.

A GTX260 running Batman AA @1920 x 1200 High detail, physX disabled.
AVG: 105FPS
MIN: 62FPS
Same settings but with physX enabled on high.
AVG: 42FPS
MIN: 23FPS

Wow.....Bye bye FPS
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a b U Graphics card
February 8, 2010 11:27:41 AM

What people fail to realize is even simple effects on a few objects takes a lot of processing power. As i've said before, PhysX has potential, but until/unless it becomes the unified physics standard, its probably not going to go anywhere [The GPU accelerated portion, at least].

That being said, DX11 is still limited by the 60% XP market [I note 7 adoption is much slower among users still using XP as opposed to Vista], development time, and lack of Hardware [less then 10% of the market is DX11 capable at this point]. Throw in the glut of DX10 hardware on the market, and I forsee slow adoption overall of DX11.

So basically, I expect around a dozen or so games that use each for this year, at most.
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a b U Graphics card
February 8, 2010 12:59:40 PM

My link just lists PC games only, not other games.
As for XP, next month, and it may be down below 40% usage on steam, and I expect it to be that low, so quickly losing its marketshare in gaming, and will be less than 1/3 by the middle of the year, at which point, itll start to lose the devs attentions completely
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a c 217 U Graphics card
February 8, 2010 1:50:15 PM

One other difference between the two links is jaydeejohn's link is games that ARE gpu accelerated, the other are games that CAN take advantage of physX and I have a few games on that list which I know for sure have nothing unique with an nvidia card.
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a b U Graphics card
February 8, 2010 2:06:14 PM

am surprised at how few GPU PhysX games I have herd of that there are.

I almost thought I was missing out having already decided to go with a 5850 card.

Now I know I made the right decision :D 


Oh, and NVidia taking performance hit of both DX11 and PhysX = ouch - hope you got a monster card (to go with its price) LOL
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a c 217 U Graphics card
February 8, 2010 2:11:30 PM

I personally just use my older card for dedicated physX. I assume the majority waiting to get the new Nvidia cards are loyal Nvidia users, and will likely be able to do the same.
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a b U Graphics card
February 8, 2010 2:49:16 PM

True, I hope you guys get a cheaper card than I have been hearing it might be :) 

I am going 5850 this time to support the underdog and help keep competitive pricing alive - besides it is a great card for the money. Once prices come back down to where they should be - retailers here in the UK tacked an extra £50 onto prices during the tight demand around Xmas and are being slow to bring prices down to where they should be :pfff: 

The cheapest 5850's still cost more here than when they were 1st introduced.

Can always then use my trusty old 8800GT for PhysX if I feel the need ~_^
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a c 217 U Graphics card
February 8, 2010 3:04:08 PM

Ya, I'm using the 5870 with a 8800gts for physX. It works quite nicely.
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a b U Graphics card
February 8, 2010 3:09:36 PM

Sweet!

Can't wait for my next pay cheque to come in :D  :D 
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a b U Graphics card
February 8, 2010 4:04:09 PM

Pailin said:
True, I hope you guys get a cheaper card than I have been hearing it might be :) 

I am going 5850 this time to support the underdog and help keep competitive pricing alive - besides it is a great card for the money. Once prices come back down to where they should be - retailers here in the UK tacked an extra £50 onto prices during the tight demand around Xmas and are being slow to bring prices down to where they should be :pfff: 

The cheapest 5850's still cost more here than when they were 1st introduced.

Can always then use my trusty old 8800GT for PhysX if I feel the need ~_^


How is a great card for the money an underdog? The 5850 is actually the best card for that price range, best =/= underdog. If you meant ATI as the underdog then, ATI has the only DX11 cards and wins in every price segment, 5xxx or 4xxx (477/4830/4850 for ~ < $100 and 4890 for $200). nVidia is the underdog I suppose, but that will change and both companies will be very competitive with one another and there will be no underdogs.
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a b U Graphics card
February 8, 2010 4:05:57 PM

I'll be perfectly honest, I keep PhysX off, it is useless and when it actually does do something it hurts my performance for some cheap and barely noticeable effects.
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a b U Graphics card
February 8, 2010 4:14:10 PM

AMD / ATi have had a few months of great sales...

As they are now one company they have to contend with both NVidia and Intel.

They are quite definitely the underdog - that right now have a Great GFx product out that will prove better value than the upcoming NVidia too I think along with a good budget processor for those that cannot afford the I7 route which is considered the ultimate option still.

Am thinking a little more long term than just the product currently under our noses. AMD has been posting HUGE losses for too long to miraculously become top dog in just a matter of a few months...

They are currently a very easy "underdog" to support :D 
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a b U Graphics card
February 8, 2010 4:16:22 PM

besides in my statement I considered that we had been talking about the upcoming NVidia card which will support both DX11 and PhysX

Meaning if I wanted to have both - I'd have had to run my old 8800GT too to get this support ;) 
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a b U Graphics card
February 8, 2010 4:23:36 PM

DX11 or PhsyX? Isn't that like asking if you want an engine or a spoiler. One makes it go, the other offers limited help in only specific circumstances.
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February 8, 2010 5:44:05 PM

I find it humorous that ATI fans think just because ATI has some slightly faster cheaper graphics cards right now, that they are suddenly the king of graphics cards. Nvidia is still ahead of ATI in the graphics cards industry by a huge margin. Most PCs out there have either an Intel or Nvidia graphics solution. ATI is still a bigtime underdog, and things are unlikely to miraculously change, especially since Nvidia's relationship with Intel is much closer than ATI's relationship with Intel (Intel being the dominant microprocessor manufacturer).

When Fermi is released, watch out, ATI will most likely be out of the spotlight again and will once again become the "lesser known" brand that many people just kind of ignore.
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a b U Graphics card
February 8, 2010 5:46:07 PM

Mustang5521 said:
I find it humorous that ATI fans think just because ATI has some slightly faster cheaper graphics cards right now, that they are suddenly the king of graphics cards. Nvidia is still ahead of ATI in the graphics cards industry by a huge margin. Most PCs out there have an Intel or Nvidia graphics solution. ATI is still a bigtime underdog, and things are unlikely to miraculously change, especially since Nvidia's relationship with Intel is much closer than ATI's relationship with Intel (Intel being the dominant microprocessor manufacturer).

When Fermi is released, watch out, ATI will most likely be out of the spotlight again and will once again become the "lesser known" brand that many people just kind of ignore.


Can you tell me who wins the World series this year? I mean, unless you are too far from your crystal ball and its a hassle.
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a c 125 U Graphics card
February 8, 2010 5:51:39 PM

Lol!

How is nVidia "still ahead of ATI in the graphics cards industry by a huge margin"?

Don't start me off on GPU technology E.G first to 40nm, first to DX11, first to GDDR5..........ETC.........

Personally I buy the best card based on Price/performance.

If you know for fact the future can you tell me the lottery numbers please, I'd like to be a millionaire.
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