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Windows 7 64 bit RAM upgrade problems

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October 4, 2010 4:35:28 AM

Hello, I'm having a huge problem with my new RAM.

Ok here's the problem, I started out with two 1 gig sticks of RAM. (totaling 2 gigs) I then decided to buy two more 1 gig sticks to double my RAM. (now at 4 gigs) Whenever I place both of the new sticks in, I cannot load windows as I get the blue screen of death. I can load in Safe mode however, and when I do, system information informs me that I have 4 gigs of RAM. I can have one new stick (as well as the old ones) at a time however, and it doesn't matter which slot or which stick.

My motherboard (ASUS m2a-vm) can take up to 8 gigs. I am running Windows 7 64 bit Ultimate, which can use 192 gigs. I have an AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 6000+ that runs at about 3 GHz.

My old RAM is made by Crucial and my new RAM is made by Lexar. As I understand it, they are now one company and it is logical to assume that they would be compatible with each other.

Any advice/help would be appreciated, thank you.
a c 347 } Memory
a b $ Windows 7
October 4, 2010 5:13:03 AM

Welcome Newcomer! :) 

The old & new need to have the same speed, timings, and voltage. ^This is very common with mix-matched RAM. I would recommend exchanging or otherwise more than likely you're going yo need to Jerry-Rig the settings.

Installing, try Channel A (NEW) 1 & 3, and Channel B (OLD) 2 & 4

CPU -> | NEW/A1 | OLD/B1 | NEW/A2 | OLD/B2 | <-test

The Correct way - > | NEW/A1 | NEW/B1 | OLD/A2 | OLD/B2 |

I recommend either Certified ASUS {QVL} or tested RAM.

Crucial Tested - http://www.crucial.com/store/listparts.aspx?model=M2A-V...
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a b } Memory
October 4, 2010 7:56:04 AM

Your computer can boot in Safe mode while fully detected 4 GB. But you can't enter to Windows normal mode?
-Try unplugging the new RAM and plug only 2 sticks of old RAM, boot into normal Windows. Is it able?
-Then unplug the old RAM and plug the 2 sticks of new RAM, boot into normal Windows. Is it able?
-Then put 1 stick of new RAM, and one stick of old RAM, same channel color. Boot to normal Windows. Is it able?
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Related resources
October 4, 2010 6:44:37 PM

jaquith said:
Welcome Newcomer! :) 

The old & new need to have the same speed, timings, and voltage. ^This is very common with mix-matched RAM. I would recommend exchanging or otherwise more than likely you're going yo need to Jerry-Rig the settings.

Installing, try Channel A (NEW) 1 & 3, and Channel B (OLD) 2 & 4

CPU -> | NEW/A1 | OLD/B1 | NEW/A2 | OLD/B2 | <-test

The Correct way - > | NEW/A1 | NEW/B1 | OLD/A2 | OLD/B2 |

I recommend either Certified ASUS {QVL} or tested RAM.

Crucial Tested - http://www.crucial.com/store/listparts.aspx?model=M2A-V...


The old RAM that I'm using is actually Crucial brand, and the new stuff is Lexar... both of which are the same company. As for the new RAM, it's on the listy of compatible upgrades. I'm 90% sure that one of these two (both of which are marked as compatible) is the one that I bought:
http://www.crucial.com/store/mpartspecs.aspx?mtbpoid=FE...
http://www.crucial.com/store/mpartspecs.aspx?mtbpoid=A6...

EDIT: also, quick question, how/where can I found out the speed, timings and voltage? They weren't listed on the package.

Quote:
andrern2000
Your computer can boot in Safe mode while fully detected 4 GB. But you can't enter to Windows normal mode?
-Try unplugging the new RAM and plug only 2 sticks of old RAM, boot into normal Windows. Is it able?
-Then unplug the old RAM and plug the 2 sticks of new RAM, boot into normal Windows. Is it able?
-Then put 1 stick of new RAM, and one stick of old RAM, same channel color. Boot to normal Windows. Is it able?


Without the new RAM, it still runs fine.
I'll try the other two steps when I get home, but thus far I haven't found a problem with the RAM itself.
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a c 347 } Memory
a b $ Windows 7
October 4, 2010 7:06:21 PM

Found the problem, you cannot mix non-ECC with ECC RAM {CT12872AA800}. Although, I didn't check most "consumer" MOBO do not support ECC RAM.

Hope this answers the mystery, and Good Luck!
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October 5, 2010 3:13:05 AM

Ok, I have my RAM out right now (one of each kind) so I can tell you the exact kind for certain.
Old = Crucial Ballistix BL12864AA804.16FD5
New = Lexar LD1GD2S806CNA
I have no idea of what the wattage, speeds or anything really other than what I've said.


EDIT: If I have both RAM types in the same colour of RAM slot on my motherboard, everything still works fine. However, I do have to mention this. In my "Control Panel\All Control Panel Items\Performance Information and Tools" tool, it informs me that I have a memory rating of 5.5, even if I refresh after having 3 of the RAM sticks in, could that be relevant?


Also, I have new info.
The timings for the old RAM (according to http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...) is 4-4-4-12
Whereas the new RAM has these timings 5-5-5-15 (according to a review here http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/product/lexar-media-lexa...)

Also, the Old RAM has 2.2v for its voltage. I cannot find the voltage for the Lexar.

How can I Jerry rig these or what ever to get all of these to work together as it now seems to me that this could be the trouble? If I can't, should I just take em back?
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a c 347 } Memory
a b $ Windows 7
October 5, 2010 3:36:45 AM

The ECC and non-ECC to my knowledge should not coexist under one memory controller. My best guess is that there is "no fix," and I would return and exchange the newer RAM.

"Possible Jerry-Rigging":
1. Keep in separate | NEW/A1 | NEW/B1 | OLD/A2 | OLD/B2 |
2. BIOS - Parity Checking {Disabled}

MOBO Specs: 4 x 240-pin DIMM, support max. 8GB DDR2 800/667/533 ECC and Non-ECC,un-buffered memory

ECC = http://www.crucial.com/store/mpartspecs.aspx?mtbpoid=FE...

Good Luck - This is your best solution.
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a b } Memory
October 5, 2010 9:18:30 AM

Have you tried the second and third step?
The first step means there are no errors on the old RAM.

The second one means to test if there are errors on the new RAM.
The third one means to test the compatibility between old and new RAM.

shavale said:

Also, I have new info.
The timings for the old RAM (according to http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...) is 4-4-4-12
Whereas the new RAM has these timings 5-5-5-15 (according to a review here http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/product/lexar-media-lexa...)

Also, the Old RAM has 2.2v for its voltage. I cannot find the voltage for the Lexar.


Okay, so the possible reason now, is that the new RAM doesn't support tight timings as 4-4-4-12. Maybe it's economical RAM. So here's the deal; Set them running at 5-5-5-15.
Run first at 2.2 V. If it works, lower it to 2.1V, 2.0V, and so on,.. until the system crashes. That's the stable point with minimum heat produced. Usually, that would be 1.8V. (JEDEC standard) But your system may be 1.9v, or 2.0v, or more.
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a b $ Windows 7
October 5, 2010 12:01:27 PM

Mixing EEC and non-EEC RAM is bad, and probably the cuase of the BSOD. Other potential issues include voltage problems (some boards need as high as 2.2V to run 4 Dimms of RAM), and timing problems.
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a c 347 } Memory
a b $ Windows 7
October 5, 2010 2:56:44 PM

^Again, unless or even if the MOBO's BIOS allows you to disable parity checking it's a problem lurking around that you don't need. Murphy's Law is going to waiting for that "worst possible" moment to remind you ECC & non-ECC is a bad idea if at all possible with your MOBO.

In preference I really like ECC for most tasks...
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October 5, 2010 6:14:29 PM

As it turns out, the old link, the first one that I showed on here in regards to my new RAM was incorrect. But new and old RAM do not have ECC and the BSOD error is one of the driver files from my Nvidia 240 gt video card... weird.
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a c 347 } Memory
a b $ Windows 7
October 5, 2010 6:59:17 PM

^ No so weird, a bad driver can easily cause a BSOD or an assortment of oddball problems.

Most importantly, I am very pleased you discovered the problem!!! :sol: 
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October 5, 2010 7:29:53 PM

andrern2000 said:
Have you tried the second and third step?
The first step means there are no errors on the old RAM.

The second one means to test if there are errors on the new RAM.
The third one means to test the compatibility between old and new RAM.



Okay, so the possible reason now, is that the new RAM doesn't support tight timings as 4-4-4-12. Maybe it's economical RAM. So here's the deal; Set them running at 5-5-5-15.
Run first at 2.2 V. If it works, lower it to 2.1V, 2.0V, and so on,.. until the system crashes. That's the stable point with minimum heat produced. Usually, that would be 1.8V. (JEDEC standard) But your system may be 1.9v, or 2.0v, or more.


How would I go about this? I've seen nothing to do with timings in my BIOS. However, I can alter the voltage...
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a c 347 } Memory
a b $ Windows 7
October 5, 2010 7:40:53 PM

In the BIOS | Advanced | Timing Mode {Auto} - > Manual. {Auto} masks a ton of available BIOS settings, and I recommend that you look around - nothing will be changed UNLESS you Save & Exit.
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a b } Memory
October 6, 2010 2:55:29 AM

shavale said:
How would I go about this? I've seen nothing to do with timings in my BIOS. However, I can alter the voltage...


This is various for every motherboards. But, is there Intelligent Tweaker MIT choice in your BIOS?
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October 6, 2010 5:40:03 AM

andrern2000 said:
This is various for every motherboards. But, is there Intelligent Tweaker MIT choice in your BIOS?



Nope, not anything like that.

And in reply to what the very helpful jaquith (not that you all haven't been very, very helpful :-) ), I did that, and it only let me alter the 800 factor in the DDR2 - 800 equation. :-(

However, I do have something new to report. I've figured out how to boot with all four slots filled with RAM... sorta. Lemmie explain:

I was really stumped about what was going on here, eh? So I was even asking the other guys (and gals) in my Network Administration class in addition to here. One guy had an idea to do with my BSOD error. He said "uninstall the Nvidia driver, as that's the file that's causing the problem, and see if you can boot then." So I have, and now I can boot. The only problem is... now I can't really use my video card. Prior to this, I had tried augmenting the file (nvlddmkm.sys) as was stated to do in one of my searches, but it left me not being able to play any video games on the system... kinda history repeating here, lol.

I've also discovered why this is possible (my being able to boot, I mean). Apparently, my old RAM was compatible with as far back as 1.8v. My new RAM is 1.8v. So they can talk... so to speak.
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a b } Memory
October 6, 2010 6:26:57 AM

Not anything like that? Well, the Bios version is different. Nvm, it works now. About the driver, I suggest you update to the latest driver. Maybe some old driver's DLL is in conflict with resource IRQ of the memory banks.
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October 6, 2010 6:38:42 AM

andrern2000 said:
Not anything like that? Well, the Bios version is different. Nvm, it works now. About the driver, I suggest you update to the latest driver. Maybe some old driver's DLL is in conflict with resource IRQ of the memory banks.


That's just the irony of it all, I am using the newest driver... I just wish I could get this all working. The very point of getting my new RAM was to improve my games.
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a b } Memory
October 6, 2010 7:12:41 AM

So, now you're able to boot with all 4 sticks plugged in, but now the display driver is problematic? Try uninstall current driver. By all means, also all utilities and applications that has affection with your display.
Reboot, then install the driver again. Reboot.
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October 6, 2010 7:25:07 AM

Tried that and it still fails. I can only boot without the nvlddmkm.sys file it seems. However, this is the main driver file for my video card. Without it, I cannot play my games.
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a b } Memory
October 6, 2010 7:31:05 AM

Fix: Go to windows/system32/drivers and rename nvlddmkm.sys to
nvlddmkm.sys.old. Go to the nvidia directory and find the file nvlddmkm.sy_
and copy it to windows/system32. Using the cmd window (DOS box) type
EXPAND.EXE nvlddmkm.sy_ nvlddmkm.sys. When the expansion is complete, copy
the new nvlddmkm.sys to windows/system32/drivers and restart the computer.

I got that from this forum:
http://forums.techarena.in/vista-hardware-devices/68944...

Seemed like you're not only one.

Also, are you overclocking your RAM? I found that oc'd the ram too much, or dropped the latencies too low.. The same screen would probably appear.Try dropping to stock rated speeds in the bios to see if that helps.

You can try the RAM first.. then try the graphics after.
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October 6, 2010 6:42:59 PM

andrern2000 said:
Fix: Go to windows/system32/drivers and rename nvlddmkm.sys to
nvlddmkm.sys.old. Go to the nvidia directory and find the file nvlddmkm.sy_
and copy it to windows/system32. Using the cmd window (DOS box) type
EXPAND.EXE nvlddmkm.sy_ nvlddmkm.sys. When the expansion is complete, copy
the new nvlddmkm.sys to windows/system32/drivers and restart the computer.

I got that from this forum:
http://forums.techarena.in/vista-hardware-devices/68944...

Seemed like you're not only one.

Also, are you overclocking your RAM? I found that oc'd the ram too much, or dropped the latencies too low.. The same screen would probably appear.Try dropping to stock rated speeds in the bios to see if that helps.

You can try the RAM first.. then try the graphics after.


I've actually seen this site, but I didn't see the part about using the command line. I'll try this as soon as I get home tonight and post the results.

Also, no, I'm not OCing anything right now... but I'll try lowering the values.


EDIT: No effect. Neither one did anything.
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a b } Memory
October 7, 2010 4:38:56 AM

Then try this. You need to turn off Windows UAC from the Control Panel. From above forum:

"Remove the NVidia services from startup services:
1. Start in safe mode, use msconfig to remove all the nvidia stuff from startup. Or
2. Start in safe mode
go to command
type
sc delete nvsvc (don't remember if it was nvsvc or nvvsvc try both)
sc delete nvvsvc
sc delete nvlddmkm

Reboot, enter safe mode again.

I did things SLIGHTLY different.

1. I uninstalled all my nvidia drivers and deleted the nvidia directory.
2. I started in safe mode because the problem was getting so bad that I couldn't even open explorer before the driver failed.
3. I found nvlddmkm.sys and renamed it to nvlddmkm.sys.old as he mentioned.
4. I installed the latest driver**, which at the time of me writing this was 195.62 WHQL
5. I restarted and it works great."

**Later, in the forum, I also find this :
Comments: As of now, 179.48 works, the update after that is what seems to kill my friend's computer.
- Meaning maybe the latest driver is the cause. Reverting back to this 179.48. So instead of installing to latest driver, install older 179.48 driver first.
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October 7, 2010 6:52:17 AM

andrern2000 said:
Then try this. You need to turn off Windows UAC from the Control Panel. From above forum:

"Remove the NVidia services from startup services:
1. Start in safe mode, use msconfig to remove all the nvidia stuff from startup. Or
2. Start in safe mode
go to command
type
sc delete nvsvc (don't remember if it was nvsvc or nvvsvc try both)
sc delete nvvsvc
sc delete nvlddmkm

Reboot, enter safe mode again.

I did things SLIGHTLY different.

1. I uninstalled all my nvidia drivers and deleted the nvidia directory.
2. I started in safe mode because the problem was getting so bad that I couldn't even open explorer before the driver failed.
3. I found nvlddmkm.sys and renamed it to nvlddmkm.sys.old as he mentioned.
4. I installed the latest driver**, which at the time of me writing this was 195.62 WHQL
5. I restarted and it works great."

**Later, in the forum, I also find this :
Comments: As of now, 179.48 works, the update after that is what seems to kill my friend's computer.
- Meaning maybe the latest driver is the cause. Reverting back to this 179.48. So instead of installing to latest driver, install older 179.48 driver first.



The first half of that I've already done, and as for the second half, I'm not sure where to get drivers that old... the newest ones are at 256.96 now.

Oh, and I've already turned off the UAC. I think I'm going to try to flash my card's BIOS. Wish me luck!
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October 14, 2010 8:25:14 PM

Sorry for the very late post, I've been super busy. I'm going to try driver version 195 as that's the oldest compatible driver for my video card. Should this fail, I'm going to flash the card. Also, there was a cd that came with the card, but I've been unable to find them.
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a b } Memory
October 15, 2010 2:25:56 AM

Good luck.
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!