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Assasins Creed 2 only DX 9.....WOW

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February 11, 2010 4:13:52 PM

http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,704779/Assassins-Cre...

Wow I'm just buying it on console then...why wait...

Enjoy the read...now I'm less excited about my dx 11 card, this is the game I was waiting for..

More about : assasins creed wow

a b U Graphics card
February 11, 2010 4:23:31 PM

Yeah, if the main games you're waiting for are console ports, my advice would be to buy a console.

Not you specifically, just in general, I mean.
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February 11, 2010 4:27:26 PM

it really burns me up though, I waited extra for Dirt 2...what a flop of DX 11 use, now AC was supposedly delayed for dx 11 purposes or dx 10, it doesn't even support 10 atleast...

My god....

You know what I never thought I'd say this, but looks like Nvidia was right about DX 11 not being important yet...its still not integrated, we have 1 game that we can call "fully supported" which is Stalker, and then 2 others dirt 2 and battleforge, that we can barely notice....

AVP better have something worth my attention...
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a b U Graphics card
February 11, 2010 4:32:55 PM

It will start to matter this year, but it wont get to the point of being great until 2011, since games take at least 2 years to create. That said, you should be very excited about you DX11 card, you have amazing DX9 performance as well as DX11 support.

To be honest, I bought AC2 for the Xbox 360 because I was willing to bet that then PC version would be crap like the first one.
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a b U Graphics card
February 11, 2010 4:44:14 PM

L1qu1d said:
You know what I never thought I'd say this, but looks like Nvidia was right about DX 11 not being important yet...its still not integrated, we have 1 game that we can call "fully supported" which is Stalker, and then 2 others dirt 2 and battleforge, that we can barely notice....


Well, just like PhysX, I don't think DX11 is going to be terribly widespread until more people have cards that support it, which in the case of DX11 is in another year, year and a half. Otherwise, if you're a developer, why waste your time on DX11 if maybe 10-20% of people are going to use it?

In that respect, yeah, Nvidia is probably right, but since they're still stuck on DX10 (and their DX11 cards are probably going to be ungodly expensive), it also makes them the retarded kid holding back the rest of the class.



edit: In case anyone read it that way, I didn't mean that I think more people will have PhysX in a year and a half. Obviously, it'll only be people with nvidia cards for the foreseeable future, and I don't see them dominating the market share. More like, as long as PhysX remains a standard that isn't supported by 50% of the machines out there, it'll remain nothing more than a novelty for most games.
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February 11, 2010 4:45:37 PM

I bought the Special edition for the PS3, and returned the game alone to wait for the ps3 version... (just in case, I got back my 69.99 since the game was sealed:) ) but anyways I'll just grab it pre used for ps3 now:) 

Crossing fingers for AVP, but I'm buying that game not matter wat lol
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February 11, 2010 4:48:40 PM

...
...
....
.........

I was totally waiting for AC2 on PC because of DX11.... sunavu bisnatch....

Well, looks like it's settled, gonna get a 5830 when it comes out... cauase I certainly wont need anything more powerful than that til next year....
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a c 169 U Graphics card
a b Ý World of Warcraft
February 11, 2010 4:58:15 PM

Maybe they will release a patch ? like they did for Stalker:Clear sky (a patch was needed for DX 10.1)
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February 11, 2010 5:02:34 PM

doubtful, in the interview they clearly didn't seem interested in dx 10 or 11 at all.

And the patch for dx 10.1 didn't really do much for I mean any patch generally doesn't add much, it would need to built into the game

So...6 months delay for essentially the same game...clearly the delay wasn't for improvements but for piracy reasons.
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a c 169 U Graphics card
a b Ý World of Warcraft
February 11, 2010 5:46:41 PM

yup i think you are right,i was waiting for DX 11 too :( 
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February 11, 2010 7:57:05 PM

Soooooo tired of console ports......
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a b U Graphics card
February 11, 2010 9:35:26 PM

DX9...The Way It's Meant To Be Played?

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Nvidia has a (under)hand in this.
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February 11, 2010 10:00:05 PM

k this bashing has to stop. Every Forum post turns into Nv bashing. And its always the same ppl

What are you guys insecure about your products or what?

Seriously its getting childish.

Windows Vista was horrible, I think Apple has an (under)hand in that.

It sounds ridiculous.

Proud owner of a 5870, a 4830, 9700M GTS and an Ion. Branch out and stop hating!
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a b U Graphics card
February 11, 2010 11:45:23 PM

Um what?

AC2 is dx9 only. Is it TWIMTBP? Lets see AC1 had dx10.1 disabled because it only worked on ATI cards right?

Sooner or later you will understand that Nvidia is hurting pc gaming while it tries to save it own ass. PC gaming will never grow while Nvidia is able to pull this crap, it's high time you lot grow up and realise it.
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a b U Graphics card
February 11, 2010 11:57:58 PM

Itll be interesting if AC2 gets DX11 once Fermi gets here. Who thinks this may happen?
If they do make it DX11, I call BS, simply because they left everyone with "looking into" and "maybe fixing" their DX10.1 on AC, which never came, for obvious reasons. If it does here, it will look very bad at the least, and I dont mean in game
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a b U Graphics card
February 12, 2010 12:09:52 AM

STALKER: Call of Pripyat is only $29.99 on steam ($19.99 if you have one of the previous).
The AvP demo only has DX9, but looks quite good.
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February 12, 2010 12:26:38 AM

jennyh said:
Um what?

AC2 is dx9 only. Is it TWIMTBP? Lets see AC1 had dx10.1 disabled because it only worked on ATI cards right?

Sooner or later you will understand that Nvidia is hurting pc gaming while it tries to save it own ass. PC gaming will never grow while Nvidia is able to pull this crap, it's high time you lot grow up and realise it.



So we should all be skeptics for Nvidia, lol And Ati the little angel:) 

Comments like that just make me support the opposite side. It just angers me how stubborn ppl can be. I'm happy enough know that Nvidia exists and that Ati exists.

lets hope 1 day one of em goes away and see how everything goes;)
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a b U Graphics card
February 12, 2010 12:50:56 AM

With ATI, the DX10.1 was 20% gains in perf in AC, and thats what its for, perf gains, not eye candy
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a c 376 U Graphics card
a b Ý World of Warcraft
February 12, 2010 1:31:41 AM

AMW1011 said:
To be honest, I bought AC2 for the Xbox 360 because I was willing to bet that then PC version would be crap like the first one.

What was wrong with the PC version of the first one? I never played the console version but if I remember properly all of the reviews I saw said it was equal to or better than the console version.
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a b U Graphics card
February 12, 2010 1:33:36 AM

I'm just amazed that anybody can start a topic complaining about no dx11 in a game, then defend Nvidia, who have a track record of holding back progress and only being interested in serving themselves at everyone elses cost.

If it wasn't for ATI Dirt 2 wouldn't even have had any dx11 at all. There is a big difference in attitudes between both companies - one tries to push the envelope in helpful ways, the other is only interested in proprietary garbage that does nothing for a huge portion of gamers.

Yes, it is high time Nvidia died out, because there is no other hope for pc gaming otherwise.
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February 12, 2010 1:37:03 AM

Nvidia dieing out would be a disaster for video cards as there's no recipe for stagnation better than a lack of competition. Unless someone else came along to compete with ATI/AMD.
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February 12, 2010 2:48:43 AM

jennyh said:
I'm just amazed that anybody can start a topic complaining about no dx11 in a game, then defend Nvidia, who have a track record of holding back progress and only being interested in serving themselves at everyone elses cost.

If it wasn't for ATI Dirt 2 wouldn't even have had any dx11 at all. There is a big difference in attitudes between both companies - one tries to push the envelope in helpful ways, the other is only interested in proprietary garbage that does nothing for a huge portion of gamers.

Yes, it is high time Nvidia died out, because there is no other hope for pc gaming otherwise.



Let me be the first to say

HAHAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

alright I hope Nvidia does die out, and when that happens I'll knock on ur door so that you can buy me another video card since u think a monopolized video card market seems to be the only way "NOT" to hold gaming back LOL.

yes I can see how ATi is pushing forward by promoting their cards through dirt 2...I can see how thats "FOR THE PPL" LMAO!!!!!

Lets switch that around, if it weren't for ATi creating DX 11, then Ati wouldn't have cared to promote Dirt 2.

Trust me, none of these are in it for the ppl, they all want money, they are all greedy in their own way.

You are plain and simply a child, nothing more I'm sorry, it seems like your posts are completely biased and aren't worth taking a note of.

I'm sorry but ppl need to be like flags, and sway the way the wind is blowing, not go against it just because they love the east.

Its not what you want, its whats good.

I am not counting any1 out anymore, ATi looked finished and look what happened...

:) 
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a b U Graphics card
February 12, 2010 2:51:56 AM

This has nothing to do with NVidia, or at least not much. However it has plenty to do with Ubisoft, whom I now consider the worst and most evil Developer of them all. Have you seen their new DRM thing (or whatever it is called)? You have to be logged on (no internet = no game, even if a temporary loss) and your saves (and probably bank and credit card numbers) are stored on their server, which will crash daily as well I'm sure.
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a c 271 U Graphics card
February 12, 2010 3:32:59 AM

L1qu1d said:
if it weren't for ATi creating DX 11

Who created DX11? I was always under the impression that it was Microsoft's and as such is controlled and updated by them and them alone.
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a b U Graphics card
February 12, 2010 3:42:42 AM

Theres certain things they push for, with some getting adopted by M$ while other things arent.
Tesselation is a ATI thing, as was DX10.1, or, the whole DX10, but a funny thing happened on the way to releasing the DX10.......
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February 12, 2010 3:47:08 AM

Mousemonkey said:
Who created DX11? I was always under the impression that it was Microsoft's and as such is controlled and updated by them and them alone.


"creating their DX 11 cards" I'm sorry forgot about how demanding Internet spelling is;)
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a c 145 U Graphics card
February 12, 2010 3:47:46 AM

jennyh said:
I'm just amazed that anybody can start a topic complaining about no dx11 in a game, then defend Nvidia, who have a track record of holding back progress and only being interested in serving themselves at everyone elses cost.

If it wasn't for ATI Dirt 2 wouldn't even have had any dx11 at all. There is a big difference in attitudes between both companies - one tries to push the envelope in helpful ways, the other is only interested in proprietary garbage that does nothing for a huge portion of gamers.

Yes, it is high time Nvidia died out, because there is no other hope for pc gaming otherwise.


OP just get disappointed with no DX11 implementation on upcoming AC. he said nvidia might be right with DX11 is not so important right now. you're the one that talk about nvidia and then saying people defending them
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a c 271 U Graphics card
February 12, 2010 4:00:10 AM

L1qu1d said:
"creating their DX 11 cards" I'm sorry forgot about how demanding Internet spelling is;)

No worries mate, JDJ seems to feel that ATi created DX10.1 not MS so you may have been right DX is an ATi invention that MS is just licensed to use. :??: 
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a b U Graphics card
February 12, 2010 4:08:27 AM

I didnt say created it did I? Im thinking L1qu1d, its just the monkey that doesnt read right heheh "Theres certain things they push for, with some getting adopted by M$ while other things arent.
Tesselation is a ATI thing, as was DX10.1, or, the whole DX10, but a funny thing happened on the way to releasing the DX10....... "
So yes, they push for certain things they want, just like ATI pushed for GDDR4 and GDDR5 etc.

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a c 271 U Graphics card
February 12, 2010 4:15:33 AM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
I didnt say created it did I? Im thinking L1qu1d, its just the monkey that doesnt read right heheh "Theres certain things they push for, with some getting adopted by M$ while other things arent.
Tesselation is a ATI thing, as was DX10.1, or, the whole DX10, but a funny thing happened on the way to releasing the DX10....... "
So yes, they push for certain things they want, just like ATI pushed for GDDR4 and GDDR5 etc.

The way that reads to me is :- Ati came up with tessellation and DX10.1 and DX10 which MS and Nvidia then have to follow.

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a b U Graphics card
February 12, 2010 4:22:05 AM

Theres nVidia things as well, thats assuming you know each tries to place their importance of their tech in M$ direction thru DX implementations, which ATI obviously favored and pushed tesselation, and tried to push the full implementation of DX10, where M$ split it into DX10 and DX10.1 for other obvious reasons, which you know, and yes, I have links heheh.
Someone short you on your monkeygrahams lately?
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a c 271 U Graphics card
February 12, 2010 4:37:29 AM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
Theres nVidia things as well, thats assuming you know each tries to place their importance of their tech in M$ direction thru DX implementations, which ATI obviously favored and pushed tesselation, and tried to push the full implementation of DX10, where M$ split it into DX10 and DX10.1 for other obvious reasons, which you know, and yes, I have links heheh.
Someone short you on your monkeygrahams lately?

No, just trying to get you to admit who makes the final decision and when about which particular version of DX is to be adopted as the universal standard. ATi, Nvidia or MS?
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February 12, 2010 5:59:34 AM

What a shame! Will still be buying it for the pc anyway because its cheaper. At least we have AVP coming out soon for dx 11!
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a b U Graphics card
February 12, 2010 6:17:12 AM

Aliens v predator demo (mulitplayer) is out on steam. I played it, runs ok, fun.
DX9 only. Still promoting dx11 for next week when full game comes out.
"for obvious reasons" LOL
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a b U Graphics card
February 12, 2010 6:34:03 AM

jyjjy said:
Nvidia dieing out would be a disaster for video cards as there's no recipe for stagnation better than a lack of competition. Unless someone else came along to compete with ATI/AMD.


Nvidia isn't going to "die out," but what probably will happen if they keep getting their ass handed to them is they'll get close to being broke or even actually go broke, and some bigger company will take them over for cheap. Intel, Microsoft, Sony .. hell, for all I know, it could be IBM or EA or Google. But nobody's going to let that company and all its technology and research die out; at some point, it'll come cheap enough that someone with deep pockets can take advantage of it.

Or if not, even if Nvidia DOES go out of business, it wouldn't be long before one of those same giant companies started developing their own video cards to compete, because if things got too monopolistic, there'd be an opportunity for someone else to take advantage of there too.
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a c 173 U Graphics card
February 12, 2010 10:42:05 AM

Wait a second. AC1 comes out with DX10.1 which then gets removed because its suppposed to be a "The way your meant to get played" game. I assume it then became a DX10 game after the patch to remove features. So now that AC2 is out they went with DX9 and not 10? I'm assuming again because this is a console port and its easiest to do DX9. Seems to me its consoles thats holding gaming back. (yes, I realize how odd that statement sounds.)

Its my understanding AMD had nothing to do with DX10/10.1. MS said what it should have, AMD went and built it. Nvidia (and Intel to.) cried, and MS brought out what we know as DX10. Problem is AMD had already developed its cards, so 10.1 was brought out. MS developes the API, the others build the cards. Obviously as I mentioned the other companies can try to influence things. Its a shame that such influences can hold back gaming.
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February 12, 2010 12:04:43 PM

my understanding of DX 10.1 is that DX 10 was supposed to be what dx 10.1 is. Ati got screwed with DX 10 when it came out, I'm thinking 10.1 might've been somethign to make up for it? God knows:) 

@ Mousemonkey :D  lol reading it back it is humerus, I'm not gonna change it just so I can confuse some ppl;):p 

Either way, i was very excited for going back to ATi and jumping to DX 11, I just dont want this to be bust!

I just dont want to be let down like my old 2900 XT:p ,

X1950 XTX FTW:D 

I think this video will answers some of our questions and make everyone happy:

it made me:) 

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February 12, 2010 12:10:19 PM

4745454b said:
Seems to me its consoles thats holding gaming back. (yes, I realize how odd that statement sounds.)


I wouldn't say "gaming", I'd say it holds back "technology" in general. A console is a set of hardware that will never change, hence the need for improved hardware and the things that come with it like improved graphics is no longer there.

For companies this is a good thing, cause you can just stick with your current line setup and don't have to spend money on R&D, you just keep pumping out the same product and sell it. For consumers and techies, it is good for our wallets. However, it obviously gimps innovation, and without innovation, eventually the companies will no longer have anything to sell... once everyone owns an xbox or PS3..... what is left for you to market since you haven't come out with a newer and better product yet???

Hardware companies will figure it out eventually, consoles will start hurting them in the long run, especially with all the ports from console to PC now, people are moving towards consoles more and more.
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a b U Graphics card
February 12, 2010 1:03:01 PM

RealityRush said:
I wouldn't say "gaming", I'd say it holds back "technology" in general. A console is a set of hardware that will never change, hence the need for improved hardware and the things that come with it like improved graphics is no longer there.

For companies this is a good thing, cause you can just stick with your current line setup and don't have to spend money on R&D, you just keep pumping out the same product and sell it. For consumers and techies, it is good for our wallets. However, it obviously gimps innovation, and without innovation, eventually the companies will no longer have anything to sell... once everyone owns an xbox or PS3..... what is left for you to market since you haven't come out with a newer and better product yet???

Hardware companies will figure it out eventually, consoles will start hurting them in the long run, especially with all the ports from console to PC now, people are moving towards consoles more and more.


Nah, I'd say gaming. Technology improvements is what allows us to get better gaming. There is only so much innovation one can add by changing the UI and some basic functions in a game. We need technology to improve so things like real time, real world, physics can start to crop up. And load screens... no more levels! One big uninterrupted world please. More AI.. and so on.


As for the nvidia thing... what on earth does Nvidia have to do with "holding back" a game that was clearly held back to save development time and cost? It was held back because it was made to to lowest common denominator (console)... not because some big brother wanted to sneak dx 10 out of it.. I'm sure Nvidia would die for the thing to support dx10 as they still have a strong market share lead in those cards, but don't have any such lead in console graphics.
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a b U Graphics card
February 12, 2010 3:03:29 PM

For once Jenny is correct, with the Assassin's Creed's devs track record, one must wonder if DX11 wasn't taken out for nVidia's benefit. They've done it before. Regardless, if it COULD be taken out then the DX11 implementation was likely a joke anyway.
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a b U Graphics card
February 12, 2010 3:19:40 PM

This is laughable, Nvidia did it ! How about this one, They did for ATI, because the performance of DX11 in game with the ATI 5xxx brought the card to its knees again, much like Dirt 2. Something which ATI has conveniently never publicly addressed. Not even an acknowledgment that they might be working on better drivers. Just like ATI's past driver history. Nothing new here.
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a b U Graphics card
February 12, 2010 3:26:41 PM

As I recall, the reason 10.1 was removed from AC1 was because it caused NVIDIA cards to crash, badly.

Remember, since no NVIDIA card supported 10.1, none of the 10.1 code should ever had been executed on a non-supporting NVIDIA card. Ubisoft chose to "fix" the problem by simply removing the 10.1 support entirely. I fail to see how NVIDIA comes into play for Ubisofts shitty coding...

Remember, DX10+ requires totally different renderers, and with 62% of the total market (and 42% of the Steam market) still stuck at DX9, does it really make economic sense to make two entirlly different rendering engines, or just stick with the tried and true DX9? M$ did this to themselves when they didn't bother to port the DX10 API over to XP.

And as for the "console port" argument, every console EXCEPT the Xbox/Xbox360 uses OpenGL, which can be updated via software update to give the same feature set that DX11 gives [Tesselation, etc], without that little Vista/7 restriction. If anyone is holding console ports back, its M$ for not using the latest version of its own API on its own console.
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a b U Graphics card
February 12, 2010 3:31:39 PM

notty22 said:
This is laughable, Nvidia did it ! How about this one, They did for ATI, because the performance of DX11 in game with the ATI 5xxx brought the card to its knees again, much like Dirt 2. Something which ATI has conveniently never publicly addressed. Not even an acknowledgment that they might be working on better drivers. Just like ATI's past driver history. Nothing new here.


Some of us were questioning how much horsepower would be needed for Tesselation in particular [the only real eye-candy upgrade to the API].

Nevermind the 5000 series is weak. The top single-GPU 5000 series card (5870) isn't significantly more powerful then the previous generations top single-GPU card (4890). Sure, the 5000 series is better all around, but its hardly like going from a 7800GTX to a 8800GTX...

Thats why I'm so interested in Fermi; based on what I've read (new engine/improved pipeline/dedicated Tesselation engine), I think we might be getting card good enough to really showcase the DX11 API [ignoring the fact it won't be in full scale use for at least another 9 months or so].

...Speaking of which, release is still set for March, right?
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a b U Graphics card
February 12, 2010 3:36:51 PM

notty22 said:
This is laughable, Nvidia did it ! How about this one, They did for ATI, because the performance of DX11 in game with the ATI 5xxx brought the card to its knees again, much like Dirt 2. Something which ATI has conveniently never publicly addressed. Not even an acknowledgment that they might be working on better drivers. Just like ATI's past driver history. Nothing new here.


Funny thing is that we have not been able to see DX11 perform the way it is supposed to. Just like you pointed out, Dirt2 runs 20/25% faster in DX9 using an Nvidia based GPU. I can prove it ;)  , most benchmark sites have wack numbers, for example my GTX 260 is "supposed" to get 37 min and 49 max at 1680 x 1050 (v-sync disabled) most settings on ULTRA @ x16CSAA.

Well I get aprox. 49 min and 73 max at the above settings... that should be an embarassment for AMD because when the first specs came out, AMD CLEARLY stated that the game was "optimized" specifically for DX11 "ready" cards....

Hopefully this will be resolved with a future driver, If I had a 5xxx series specifically for Dirt2 I would be pretty pist off...

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a b U Graphics card
February 12, 2010 3:42:39 PM

The consoles dont have the power to do such things, and dont have the right make up to do it either. You can emulate anything, its what perf you get in the end that counts.
A good example of how consoles are holding progress back is cpu bottlenecking. Instead of better AI etc, and MT, were stuck with low powered console solutions that allows for eye finity, 32xAA etc, on res sizes 4x what we had not long ago.
If games actually challenged todays cards, these implementations wouldnt be being done, and AI and cpu bottlenecks wouldnt be happening.
The AC DX10.1 was done very well on nVidia cards, just they didnt get the benefit of getting the 1 less pass, and therefore the ATI cards perf was greater, meaning more bang for the buck, and made nVidias solution of DX10 look like a bad purchase decision, and thats why it was removed.
Again, we have to just "trust" nVidia as to whose to blame here, since its the "devs" fault according to them, much like the physx cant be used on ATI, ageia cards etc.
If their driver team is that great, none of this should be a problem, as they introwed the AA on BAA as well, with no problems, and once again, block it for ATI cards, saying again, its the "devs" fault, and "ATIs" fault. Anyone seeing a pattern here?
Like I said, if DX11 comes out after Fermi is released on AC2, its a foul situation, and just 1 more coincidence we just have to believe.
As for xp and DX9, itll be less than 34% by June on steam, and at that point, itll be a thing of the past
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February 12, 2010 3:55:30 PM

That makes no sense for Nvidia to remove it SINCE THE GAME IS COMING OUT WITH THE GT400S!!!!! (aka both are coming in March 2010)

The same month, oh yeah I can see why Nvidia doesn't want to push their cards in even BETTER TERMS.
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a b U Graphics card
February 12, 2010 4:00:39 PM

Im saying it may not be removed, just itll be "perfected" on Fermi, which isnt exactly bountiful for all its partners, and delayed the DX11 implementation, as itll likely be a TWIMTBP game.
Time will tell.
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a c 271 U Graphics card
February 12, 2010 4:00:49 PM

L1qu1d said:
That makes no sense for Nvidia to remove it SINCE THE GAME IS COMING OUT WITH THE GT400S!!!!! (aka both are coming in March 2010)

The same month, oh yeah I can see why Nvidia doesn't want to push their cards in even BETTER TERMS.

If you were wearing your ATi embossed tin foil hat you would 'see' the sense. [:mousemonkey]
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a b U Graphics card
February 12, 2010 4:09:42 PM

There must be a large group of PHD psychologists that did nothing but examine brand loyalty and how it affects logic and reason all the way through their thesis... It is funny how silly the human brain can be, almost like we are hard wired to be retarded lemmings in all matters of 'religion.'

What is it about a brand, Nvidia, ATI, Intel, or Jesus... that turns an otherwise logical person into a raving loon?

I mean really... how does this issue possibly relate to anything other than the mass market watering down of gaming? How could anyone think it is because a company stole the features in some underhanded conspiracy when it makes so much more sense that the game was made for the lowest common denominator, like every other big ticket game, in order to maximize profit?

I'm not one to defend shady business practises... but at least the semblance of evidence is required in these things...
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a b Ý World of Warcraft
February 12, 2010 4:18:59 PM

gamerk316 said:
Nevermind the 5000 series is weak. The top single-GPU 5000 series card (5870) isn't significantly more powerful then the previous generations top single-GPU card (4890).

You must have a different definition of "significant" than most people.
If you'll look here
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ATI/Radeon_HD_5870/3...
the HD5870 is 43% more powerful than the HD4890 at 1920x1200. It happens to be almost the exact same performance increase of the GTX 285 over the 9800GTX. So was the GTX 285 also "weak"? I mean the 9800GTX was actually the 8800GTS 512mb which wasn't even the most powerful Nvidia card from two series earlier.
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