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Antec telling consumers to stay away from single rail PSUs?

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April 29, 2010 4:32:33 AM

I guess they're trying to counter PCP&C's FUD with some FUD of their own. These companies really just need to cut the crap already.
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April 29, 2010 5:03:12 AM

Pure BS. OCP may not be provided with cheaper brands, but it sure as hell is provided with the well known better brands.

In fact all of the myths they listed there are in fact true for reputable brands. For el'cheapo, you get what you paid for.
a b ) Power supply
April 29, 2010 5:06:43 AM

Userremoved said:
http://www.antec.com/Believe_it/PSU/Myth3.php
Kinda weird I tough Antec was a truthful company but there saying to the consumer that a single rail PSU is dangerous...


If that is what they say, they are wrong. It is true in theory that multiple rails is a little safer, but it doesn't really translate into actual practice.
a c 144 ) Power supply
April 29, 2010 5:38:33 AM

FALC0N said:
If that is what they say, they are wrong. It is true in theory that multiple independent rails is a little safer, but it doesn't really translate into actual practice.

Fixed it.

The problem is that most "multi-rail" PSU's truly aren't.

I won't be giving up my Corsairs or multi-railed Antecs anytime soon.
April 29, 2010 6:31:12 AM

Tsss, killed by a power supply? That's a bit silly. It's like saying it is dangerous to be within 100 yards from a railway, because a train MIGHT derail and hit you. Hey, it's happened in the past!!
a b ) Power supply
April 29, 2010 7:12:57 AM

Marketing @ work
April 29, 2010 11:13:12 AM

Well if it's for safety it still is exaggerated...
It's basically saying you will die next to a single rail PSU.
a b ) Power supply
April 29, 2010 12:17:12 PM

Its not the question of single rail or multi rail PSU. The currents (AMPS) the PC are operating with, any form of short-circuit will burn and trace or specific nodes inside an IC.

Shorts or overload on P55 sockets results to burnt pins/pads. Short on PCIE connectors result to burnt edge-connector.

The current level( AMPS) is high enough to burn the node where the short or overload occurs.

This is a form of mis-information drive that creates a certain level of fear for people who don't understand the details.

For practical purposes single rail design is the way to go. The electronic circuits today are well designed to take care of single rails 12V PSU condition that all loads are on the same electrical loop.

It eliminates mistakes in rail load distribution and management. Most PC techs/users don't have the knowledge to deal with this calculation.

Single Rail PSU is a PLUG and PLAY solution for PSU. No need to worry about load balancing on 12V rail. We pay good money for this branded PSU. The last thing we need is to worry about load balancing/distribution.

I Have 3 Antec PSU but my latest one is Corsair HX1000. Any new build(PC) will be another corsair HX850 or HX1000.


a b ) Power supply
April 29, 2010 1:27:32 PM

Yeah, I'm never going to give up on my single rail PSUs. Try powering multiple GTX 480s on a multi-rail PSU and you will end up rail balancing like crazy.

There is nothing wrong with either, but I just prefer single rails.
a c 243 ) Power supply
April 29, 2010 1:31:54 PM

leon2006 said:

Single Rail PSU is a PLUG and PLAY solution for PSU. No need to worry about load balancing on 12V rail. We pay good money for this branded PSU. The last thing we need is to worry about load balancing/distribution.

I Have 3 Antec PSU but my latest one is Corsair HX1000. Any new build(PC) will be another corsair HX850 or HX1000.

I don't agrre with what Antec has done, it's the same marketing BS that PCP&C used on thier Power Supply Myths Exposed page ( which was taken down some time ago ), but seriously " load balancing " ?
That's something that very few uber high end computer users would have to worry about.
a b ) Power supply
April 29, 2010 5:41:45 PM

Its easy to create unfounded fear
April 29, 2010 9:41:54 PM

leon2006 said:
Its easy to create unfounded fear

So true!
April 29, 2010 9:45:31 PM

AMW1011 said:
Yeah, I'm never going to give up on my single rail PSUs. Try powering multiple GTX 480s on a multi-rail PSU and you will end up rail balancing like crazy.

There is nothing wrong with either, but I just prefer single rails.

So that's the main point? Rail balancing?
a b ) Power supply
April 29, 2010 9:52:03 PM

leon2006 said:
Its not the question of single rail or multi rail PSU. The currents (AMPS) the PC are operating with, any form of short-circuit will burn and trace or specific nodes inside an IC.


Well, in a way it can be.

THEORETICALLY, a mulirail cpu (which for the purposes of this example are capped at 18amps) would send less power through any given set of wiring or to any given component. A 70 amp single rail could in theory malfunction and blow 70amps at a component/wiring with disastrous consequences.

But like many other things, it works better in theory than reality.
May 3, 2010 9:13:05 PM

Userremoved said:
http://www.coolermaster-usa.com/upload/product/2949/fea...
Antec your marketing department needs to get there fact straight this single rail PSU (Cooler Master Silent Pro 1000w) has OCP.

ur falling for the same trick like every other guy.... OCP on the 3.3 and 5V rail but not on the 12V rail... but hey, no need to fully understand as long as you can brag about something on the internet :lol: 
May 3, 2010 9:16:15 PM

Franson said:
ur falling for the same trick like every other guy.... OCP on the 3.3 and 5V rail but not on the 12V rail... but hey, no need to fully understand as long as you can brag about something on the internet :lol: 

Hehe!
Your rite I don't understand PSUs that well but that still shows that Antec needs better marketing.
May 3, 2010 9:42:46 PM

Hi guys,

I am here to answer some questions... some of you might know me from AnandTech, where I was writing PSU reviews for the past couple of years. I am going to answer a few of your questions and hope you will read until the end! :sol: 

So, where to start... first of all, it's easy to brag as someone before me said already. You need to understand the whole thing to get the picture. In most cases nobody really understands the issue with OCP. I mean we showed some video on our YouTube Channel about PSUs without OCP. There wasn't anything made up. You can see a motherboard frying up. We have more videos about this, different cases but all the same result about something burning up.

I am reading in more and more forums in Europe that people have melted wire isolations, connectors and other parts. This has only one reason: If you create short circuit in your system with a PSU that doesn't have OCP the current can flow unhindered through your system. Why some guys above say that it's made up? Guys... open your eyes. Without OCP the current flows and since the wires can only withstand a certain current they start getting hot and melt off their idolation, or the connector melts and so on... Just imagine you have a short circuit on the motherboard... you can see that in the video. Your components will be simply fried up. That has nothing to do with false panic or hyper-marketing, that has something to do with safety and us telling you about it.

You would feel good if you buy a car without airbags? Building a house without circuit breakers? It's exactly the same thing with OCP. You might never see an airbag, never break a fuse. That doesn't mean they are not there and IF you need them one day you are thankful that they actually have been there!! With 99 people it might be ok, they might bever have a problem so they won't need OCP on their 12V rails, but the one guy... the one guy who actually short circuits his system and fries up all of his components will be very unhappy about it, right? You wouldn't want to skip on an airbag either. So only because you never had a problem doesn't mean it's all perfectly safe.

And to make sure you understand, there is not any high-end single rail power supply (in the upper wattage range) that comes with OCP on the 12V rail. COmpanies writing this safety feature on their website write this because they have it on the 3.3V and 5V rail and want to trick the users, nothing else!

This myth-series is there to educate you, to teach people in a hopefully easy to understand way how the things work. There is simply no need for single rail power supplies (As always I mean single 12V rail with high amperage) today and in addition they are simply dangerous.

Think about it, I am here for Q&A :) 
May 3, 2010 10:00:08 PM

so your saying Antec is correct and everyone else is wrong?
May 3, 2010 10:00:21 PM

Eithelwulf said:
so your saying Antec is correct and everyone else is wrong?

Read correctly... There are enough companies that sell multi rail PSUs... not only Antec. :) 
May 3, 2010 10:07:19 PM

XFX have just launched the Black edition psu's the 850 is single rail. Your telling me they got it so wrong and its UNSAFE, im dam sure they have done there resarch and the product is critacaly acclaimed as one of the best on the market.

And as a bit of market resarch you can go back and tell your bosses you are looseimg my coustom on the psu as your CP series designed for my antec 1200 or 900 cases has not got ENOUGHT conectors by a long way http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/forum2.php?config=t...
May 3, 2010 10:23:43 PM

Ok so the OCP failed on one test model on one review out of how many sent out for review? Im sure i could find similar or greater rate of fail's on Antec products if i looked hard enough.

and also quote from that review
"the XFX Black Edition 850w does have a a tendency to go ‘pop’ under certain load conditions. These conditions were of course outside specification during the "Max Load" tests where the unit was placed under a load approaching 1000W,"

of corse its going to fail if you push it that hard show me the results of your 850w psu's @ load of 1000w please
May 3, 2010 10:33:03 PM

Eithelwulf said:
Ok so the OCP failed on one test model on one review out of how many sent out for review? Im sure i could find similar or greater rate of fail's on Antec products if i looked hard enough.

and also quote from that review
"the XFX Black Edition 850w does have a a tendency to go ‘pop’ under certain load conditions. These conditions were of course outside specification during the "Max Load" tests where the unit was placed under a load approaching 1000W,"

of corse its going to fail if you push it that hard

I don't blame you for not understanding how reality works with this industry... all I can try is to let people know about it. I think maybe 1% of all reviewers are even able to test OCP, so of course nobody talks about it. You missed to quote the other important part btw:
Quote:
... but under no circumstances should a PSU of this quality fail in this manner simply because the load is too high. OCP (Over Current Protection) should kick in every time, saving both the PSU from failure and your hardware from being 'zapped'.

BTW what is so difficult to understand with NO single rail 12V power supply with a certain wattage has OCP. In another way... just with a 850W PSU with ~70A on the tail. Check the video above, the motherboard went up in smoke with just 66A for example... just imagine you have 80, 90 or 100A?
a b ) Power supply
May 3, 2010 10:41:40 PM

Christoph@ANTEC said:
Hi guys,

I am here to answer some questions... some of you might know me from AnandTech, where I was writing PSU reviews for the past couple of years. I am going to answer a few of your questions and hope you will read until the end! :sol: 

So, where to start... first of all, it's easy to brag as someone before me said already. You need to understand the whole thing to get the picture. In most cases nobody really understands the issue with OCP. I mean we showed some video on our YouTube Channel about PSUs without OCP. There wasn't anything made up. You can see a motherboard frying up. We have more videos about this, different cases but all the same result about something burning up.

I am reading in more and more forums in Europe that people have melted wire isolations, connectors and other parts. This has only one reason: If you create short circuit in your system with a PSU that doesn't have OCP the current can flow unhindered through your system. Why some guys above say that it's made up? Guys... open your eyes. Without OCP the current flows and since the wires can only withstand a certain current they start getting hot and melt off their idolation, or the connector melts and so on... Just imagine you have a short circuit on the motherboard... you can see that in the video. Your components will be simply fried up. That has nothing to do with false panic or hyper-marketing, that has something to do with safety and us telling you about it.

You would feel good if you buy a car without airbags? Building a house without circuit breakers? It's exactly the same thing with OCP. You might never see an airbag, never break a fuse. That doesn't mean they are not there and IF you need them one day you are thankful that they actually have been there!! With 99 people it might be ok, they might bever have a problem so they won't need OCP on their 12V rails, but the one guy... the one guy who actually short circuits his system and fries up all of his components will be very unhappy about it, right? You wouldn't want to skip on an airbag either. So only because you never had a problem doesn't mean it's all perfectly safe.

And to make sure you understand, there is not any high-end single rail power supply (in the upper wattage range) that comes with OCP on the 12V rail. COmpanies writing this safety feature on their website write this because they have it on the 3.3V and 5V rail and want to trick the users, nothing else!

This myth-series is there to educate you, to teach people in a hopefully easy to understand way how the things work. There is simply no need for single rail power supplies (As always I mean single 12V rail with high amperage) today and in addition they are simply dangerous.

Think about it, I am here for Q&A :) 


I agree.
May 3, 2010 10:45:32 PM

Antec 850W TruePower Quattro Modular PSU < Will that run 2x 480's
a b ) Power supply
May 3, 2010 10:56:02 PM

Christoph@ANTEC said:
Hi guys,

I am here to answer some questions... some of you might know me from AnandTech, where I was writing PSU reviews for the past couple of years. I am going to answer a few of your questions........................ I am here for Q&A :) 


I for one think it would be cool to have someone from Antec posting here.

A few items I would like to get out of the way, if you would.

1) Is there some way we can confirm you are who you say you are? I don't doubt your word. You have handled yourself the way I would expect of a professional, but on the internet, you never know.

2) Was curious as to the current position you hold with Antec.

3) What country are you based in?

With those questions out of the way:

Quote:
.....I am reading in more and more forums in Europe that people have melted wire isolations, connectors and other parts. This has only one reason: If you create short circuit in your system with a PSU that doesn't have OCP the current can flow unhindered through your system. Why some guys above say that it's made up?....


The forums in Europe part caught my attention. What role, if any, do you and/or Antec attribute their use of a 220v+ system vs the 120 in the United States.

Wouldn't short circuit protection deal with the issue described in your example?

May 3, 2010 11:07:39 PM

As typical you have avoided all or any direct questions and you wonder why people dont trust what your saying. I take your lack of a reply as a NO as the 18amp max on any one rail will not be enough to run 2x 480's. Which leaves many of us with little or NO choice i could probably do the maths and distrabute the power but why bother if there's a psu i dont need to do that on?
Also as far as im concerned if they were that unsafe they would not be allowed to produce or sell them, putting your coustomers @ risk aint a good buisness plan so tell me why XFX/Seasonic are so convinced its safe and your not?
a b ) Power supply
May 3, 2010 11:14:42 PM

Easy there Eithelwulf! If he is who he say he is, Im sure he has more on his plate than just posting. Give him a chance.

Besides, If he claimed to be from PCP&C and agreed with you, would you be as hard on him? Its not a surprise that manufacturers have different takes on the same technology.

This could be a opportunity to get a great inside perspective and maybe some feedback their way.
May 3, 2010 11:17:56 PM

Is it true that some PSU's that claim to be multiple +12V rails don't have the +12V rail split at all?

Yes, this is true. But it's the exception and not the norm. It's typically seen in Seasonic built units (like the Corsair HX and Antec True Power Trio.) It's actually cheaper to make a single +12V rail PSU because you forego all of the components used in splitting up and limiting each rail and this may be one reason some OEM's will not split the rails, but say they are split. Some system builders adhere very closely to ATX12V specification for liability reasons, so a company that wants to get that business but also save money and reduce R&D costs will often "fib" and say the PSU has it's +12V split when it does not.

Ahem Antec true power is a single rail? but Antec fib and say its multi rail now how can anyone belive what antec or you are saying?
May 3, 2010 11:18:22 PM

im being hard yes but i dont think unfair after all i use 2 Antec case's i just trying to get to the truth

Sorry cat hit mouse before i finish, yes the bored one in ma avitar

I would like to use Antec psu's in my rig's but not if they will not run the 480's i want to upgrade to without extra wireing etc. If he is who he says he is then he came along at the right time for me as im just about to order the XFX 850watt black edd over the Antec model i mentioned.
a b ) Power supply
May 3, 2010 11:20:40 PM

Ignore the sales rep. A GOOD quality single rail PSU will do just fine and will shut off before damaging anything most of the time, just like a multi-rail PSU. You will get in trouble with cheap PSUs, single or multi rails equally. XFX is putting out a decent rebranded PSU, nothing more. Stick with Corsair, PC Power and Cooling, Seasonic, and Antec and you should just forget about these problems. If it really bothers you most good single rail PSUs do have OCP, like mine:
http://www.pcpower.com/downloads/750_Quad_new_5YR_lr_38...

OCP means that when your PSU fails it may be more protected against electric discharges to the rest of your hardware. And decent PSU won't have any problem running for 5 years or more at specification, even RIGHT at the wattage rating. My PC Power and Cooling comes with test results, they test every single unit they make, and my max wattage on my 750w PSU is 968w, with the max continuous being 872w. It really is nothing to worry about when you buy quality.
a b ) Power supply
May 3, 2010 11:23:58 PM

Oh and do note that I buy more Antec PSUs than any else, I've purchased dozens of Earthwatts series, so I'm not against Antec.
a b ) Power supply
May 3, 2010 11:26:36 PM

Eithelwulf said:
im being hard yes but i dont think unfair after all i use 2 Antec case's i just trying to get to the truth

Quote:
Ignore the sales rep. A GOOD quality single rail PSU will do just fine and will shut off before damaging anything most of the time, just like a multi-rail PSU.


I'm inclined to agree with your positons, and obviously Antec will accentuate the positives of their position and the negative of an opponent. But the debate is a legitimate one.

I don't mind hearing what he has to say. Even if you don't change your mind, you might learn something. But that wont happen if the discourse gets too heated. And thats where this is headed.
a b ) Power supply
May 3, 2010 11:30:07 PM

He isn't saying anything I don't know, I am big into PSUs. He is right, but he is extremely exaggerating the need and advantage of OCP and is ignoring the fact that plenty of single rail PSUs use OCP even if it is harder to implement.
May 3, 2010 11:32:38 PM

:) 
FALC0N said:
Quote:
Ignore the sales rep. A GOOD quality single rail PSU will do just fine and will shut off before damaging anything most of the time, just like a multi-rail PSU.


I'm inclined to agree with your positons, and obviously Antec will accentuate the positives of their position and the negative of an opponent. But the debate is a legitimate one.

I don't mind hearing what he has to say. Even if you don't change your mind, you might learn something. But that wont happen if the discourse gets too heated. And thats where this is headed.


i get what ya sayin bud *shuts up and awaits reply* i need a pee anyway :) 
May 4, 2010 1:34:36 AM

haha that antec youtube video was my old motherboard, an Albatron 865PE Pro

just rebuilt my system, got an the Antec TruePower New Blue at Frys for $79(after MIR)
a b ) Power supply
May 4, 2010 2:47:48 AM

AMW1011 said:
Yeah, I'm never going to give up on my single rail PSUs. Try powering multiple GTX 480s on a multi-rail PSU and you will end up rail balancing like crazy.

There is nothing wrong with either, but I just prefer single rails.


Depends on where the caps are set. The ATX 2.0 standard of 18 amps was stupid as hell. But if you did 30-40 amps, it would work fine. My understanding is the current Antec multi-rail designs have much higher caps.
May 4, 2010 6:18:46 AM

Eithelwulf said:
Antec 850W TruePower Quattro Modular PSU < Will that run 2x 480's

Yes, we even had our TruePower New 750W running a GTX480 SLI setup + 980X Extreme on full load. Of course it was on its limit, but it was 'possible'!
May 4, 2010 6:22:51 AM

FALC0N said:
I for one think it would be cool to have someone from Antec posting here.

A few items I would like to get out of the way, if you would.

1) Is there some way we can confirm you are who you say you are? I don't doubt your word. You have handled yourself the way I would expect of a professional, but on the internet, you never know.

2) Was curious as to the current position you hold with Antec.

3) What country are you based in?

With those questions out of the way:

Quote:
.....I am reading in more and more forums in Europe that people have melted wire isolations, connectors and other parts. This has only one reason: If you create short circuit in your system with a PSU that doesn't have OCP the current can flow unhindered through your system. Why some guys above say that it's made up?....


The forums in Europe part caught my attention. What role, if any, do you and/or Antec attribute their use of a 220v+ system vs the 120 in the United States.

Wouldn't short circuit protection deal with the issue described in your example?

1. How could I confirm? Want me to post a picture with a text of your choice of me in my office? ;) 
2. I am responsible for worldwide Power Supply Marketing.
3. I German based in our Taiwan office where I can work with our engineers on new developments and guide the global marketing for PSUs

Last question, for me as German I could enjoy a 230V grid all my life and I think it's working better. I simply enjoy the higher efficieny for example. If that is what you meant ;) 
May 4, 2010 6:28:28 AM

Eithelwulf said:
As typical you have avoided all or any direct questions and you wonder why people dont trust what your saying. I take your lack of a reply as a NO as the 18amp max on any one rail will not be enough to run 2x 480's. Which leaves many of us with little or NO choice i could probably do the maths and distrabute the power but why bother if there's a psu i dont need to do that on?
Also as far as im concerned if they were that unsafe they would not be allowed to produce or sell them, putting your coustomers @ risk aint a good buisness plan so tell me why XFX/Seasonic are so convinced its safe and your not?

Sorry, I am in Sweden to meet customers and somre folks of the press and it was well after midnight here. Please refer to the first Myth where I explain the power distribution of today's graphics cards. You will see that 18A will be enough since you have several rails distributing the power. OC is always the question and I wouldn't guarantee it all the way but for normal users it's more than enough. Games use less power than benchmarks anyway...
May 4, 2010 6:42:06 AM

Eithelwulf said:
im being hard yes but i dont think unfair after all i use 2 Antec case's i just trying to get to the truth

Sorry cat hit mouse before i finish, yes the bored one in ma avitar

I would like to use Antec psu's in my rig's but not if they will not run the 480's i want to upgrade to without extra wireing etc. If he is who he says he is then he came along at the right time for me as im just about to order the XFX 850watt black edd over the Antec model i mentioned.

Frankly, the TPQ850 is an older model and might performance-wise not be able to compete with the XFX850. If the Signature 850W would be something for you I would urge you to have a look or rather wait two more month for our new lineup. As I said... single rail 12V power supplies are equally good in performance, have high efficienct, many connectors and so on... but they do not have OCP and if you want to take this risk, so be it. All I can do is informing you about the bitter truth, as I said, there is a chance you might never have a problem. But if you do, better have safety features.
May 4, 2010 7:01:37 AM

AMW1011 said:
He isn't saying anything I don't know, I am big into PSUs. He is right, but he is extremely exaggerating the need and advantage of OCP and is ignoring the fact that plenty of single rail PSUs use OCP even if it is harder to implement.

If you are so big into PSUs maybe I can still learn something from you as well. We could start with you showing me a single rail psu with OCP... I mean, the actual OCP component on the PCB and not a vendor lying about it on their website... :)  I also don't know what you mean with 'even if it's harder to implement'. 70, 80, 100A is 70, 80 or 100A... As I said, the video showed you only need 66A to destroy your PC... I don't know where you say you want to have OCP on those PSUs. And even if that would be true... what does a 100A OCP bring? Damage is done by then. As I said, this is not made up. I have real people telling me they had experience with this, melting cable and connectors, yesterday an editor told me he stuck his CF-card into the reader and somehow bent the pin against the PCB and had a short circuit. But the PSU didnt turn off but instead it was starting to smell 'great' and the PCB of the card reader was fried. The most fun part was when he told me who he got his PSU from.........there was a C in the name......... and an X............... and some numbers.

I know I can show you all of the OCP when it comes to Antec PSUs.... every single one of them. Exaggerating? As I said... you might have never had problems before, but if you do... I am sure you will first post here and seek for help on how to RMA your system.
a c 248 ) Power supply
May 4, 2010 7:07:17 AM

AW GEEZ! Here we go again.

True mutiple +12 volts rails were originally designed and developed a few years ago for very high end, very high wattage power supplies rated at 1,000 watts or greater that supplied power to seriously overclocked systems with 3 or 4 video cards that were power hogs. The scenario pretty much ruled out typical users, gamers, and enthusiasts. In addition, it was very expensive to build such a system.

Until very recently nobody had a 500 watt power supply with true multiple +12 volt rails. To the best of my knlowledge there are only three 500 watt models available with true multiple +12 volt rails. I haven't checked to see if more might have become available in the past 30 days.

The situation rapidly deteriorated when advertisements and data labels started appearing claiming lower wattage psu's had multiple rails when, in fact, competent technical reviews indicated they did not have true multiple +12 volt rails. That led to a lot of controversy. It is a mess that should not have happened. It is very similar to the crazy advertising claims about contrast ratios and access times of LCD monitors.

The Antec web page that is referenced at the beginning of this thread is actually about Over Current Protection. Antec starts with the following absolute statement:

"Single-rail power supplies do not come with the over current protection (OCP) safety function on their +12V rail."

Is the absolute statement correct?

I have a Seasonic X-650 gold certified power supply. It has a single +12 volt rail rated at 54 amps. If Antec's statement is correct, then my power supply does not have Over Current Protection. Hardware Secrets seems to think otherwise. According to their technical review of my power supply:

"This power supply uses a PS223 monitoring integrated circuit, which is in charge of the power supply protections, like OCP (over current protection), over voltage protection (OVP), under voltage protection (UVP) and over temperature protection (OTP, not implemented on this unit)."

In the past Hardware Secrets tried to test OCP. Unfortunately, their test equipment is limited to a maximum of 33 amps on a +12 volt rail. If they tried to test a power supply with a higher OCP setpoint such as the Antec Truepower New 750 the psu would not shut down. Hardware Secrets no longer tries to test OCP specifically because they don't have proper equipment.

However, Hardware Secrets does conduct overload tests. They try and push power supplies to the max to see what happens. Here's what they had to say about the Seasonic X-650 Gold:

"The idea behind of overload tests is to see if the power supply will burn/explode and see if the protections from the power supply are working correctly. This power supply didn’t burn or explode. Even under this overloading efficiency was still very good."

Here is a link to the complete technical review:

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/837/1

I couldn't help but notice some new Antec advertising over at newegg.com. The advertising states that OCP is included in all Antec power supplies with multiple +12 volt rails.

One can't help but wonder if the marketing gurus got carried away. It certainly appears as if that might be a possibility.
!