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Regular SSD vs pcie card SSD (hybrid)

Tags:
  • SSD
  • PCI Express
  • Hard Drives
  • Solid State
  • Storage
  • Product
Last response: in Storage
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March 2, 2012 2:48:43 AM

I was thinking of going this route for the SSD. This OCZ RevoDrive RVDHY-FH-1T PCI-E 1TB Hybrid Solid State Drive PCI-Express 2.0 x4 MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD). It says the read/write speeds are 910/810 MB/sec. If this is true then it's faster than a regular SSD drive. I read the Tom's article about these types of drives but it didn't really convince me one way or the other. Can anyone here explain if it's really that much faster? I realize the hybrid part is a regular hdd and will not run at those speeds - just the ssd portion of the card coupled with the pcie X4 speed will. It will have to be treated like regular SSD/HDD combinations. But the SSD part runs that fast??

Also, I only have pcie X16 slots on my X58A-OC board. I should be able to just plug it into one of those slots and it will work fine right?

Thanks in advance.

More about : regular ssd pcie card ssd hybrid

March 2, 2012 3:46:47 AM

pci-e 4x will work in 16x slots

by the looks of it, it can get the speeds promised

and yes, it would work kind of like a system with an SSD, and HDD plugged in, just all in 1 place :p 
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a b G Storage
March 2, 2012 4:39:05 AM

A PCIe Disc anykind is going to be faster than a SATA disc anykind.
But if you compare a hybrid SATA disc to a SATA SSD then the SSD will win, reasons are simple because the whole point of having a hybrid setup is mainly because of low SSD capacity, which is usually used for caching.
Yes, the PCIe Revo is a lot more faster than most probably any SATA discs out there.
The Hybrid Revo is again the same principle where the SSD is used for caching and the Platter drive for storage, only difference is a 1 TB Revo pure SSD solution will work out 10 time the price of a Hybrid Revo of the same capacity.

Yes, the drive should work fine in your board as long as it supports booting from the PCIe.
Check the net for revo on that board and you'll find out more.
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March 4, 2012 8:57:47 PM

So, if I'm going to go the pcie ssd then I just need to go with one without the hybrid platter hdd to take advantage of the speed? Something like this OCZ RevoDrive X2 OCZSSDPX-1RVDX0240 PCI-E 240GB. Then I should get the ~750 MB/s transfer speeds? Then like everyone else I should just use the spindle hdd already installed in my system for the additional programs like M office, printer, turbo tax and things like that?
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a b G Storage
March 5, 2012 2:29:18 AM

The Hybrid PCIe Revo is faster than the PCIe Revo SSD solution if you look at the specs. It's also half the price, so why not go for the Hybrid one?
You get the added hdd space as a bonus.

You can go for greater capacity drives like everyone else for the SATA ones.
The only downside I see is the MTBF, that's pretty low for the Hybrid in comparison to the Revo Pure PCIe SSD but that could also be because of the quality of the platter drive used.
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March 5, 2012 9:30:20 AM

Mainly because I see this
"Average Write IOPS: 65,000 IOPS
Sequential Read AS-SSD: Up to 290 MB/s
Sequential Write AS-SSD: Up to 130 MB/s
4KB Random Read AS-SSD: 30,500 IOPS (115MB/s)
4KB Random Write AS-SSD: 32,000 IOPS (120 MB/s)"
under the hybrid drive so it's a little confusing. And I'm disregarding the prices I've shown because I'm looking at the second one for under $300 currently. When you said the straight ssd would kill by performance standards I thought that's what you were getting at. So the second option is just an ssd with the advantage over the sata ssds due to the pcie interface. I do like the hybrid solution but I'm afraid of the above stated speeds so I'm mostly ruling it out due to that.
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a b G Storage
March 5, 2012 11:28:27 AM

You're forgetting the updated SF controller versions and 4 instead of 2 controllers. Making those speeds actually possible.
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March 5, 2012 3:22:37 PM

Sorry to be so hardheaded but I can't seem to untangle this. So of the drives listed, the hybrid will be the fastest and give me the best performance? Even with the stated sequential and random speeds listed under it. And given the choice of the 2 you would pick the hybrid over the other because it would give the best performance due to the newer dual sandforce controllers?
And thanks for pointing out the MTBF - I completely missed that one.
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Best solution

a b G Storage
March 6, 2012 3:48:08 AM

Yes, the Hybrid will give you the best performance from the drives listed.

Now, we'll get to why.
The difference between the 2 drives, firstly the Hybrid is one generation newer, it's 2011 product and the X2 is a 2010 product.
The hybrid uses the SF2281 controllers and the X2 uses the SF1222 controllers
X2 is PCIe first gen the Hybrid is PCIe 2.0.
The performance for the Hybrid should be somewhere closer to the X2 if not a tad higher, mainly because of the advancement in technology. The lag or factor pulling it down would only be the platter drive.
The advantage of the Hybrid is the pure price/gb thing.
Logic:
If the first gen PCIe SSDs were fast enough for me, but, the price/gb was too much and continues to be too high, then, when the 3rd gen SSDs or Hybrid drives come out giving me the same performance, but greater value for money from the price/gb POV , then, I would go for it,but, only as my OS drive.
Data will continue to stay on the platters.

X2 Benchmark Reviews
http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_conten...
Hybrid Revo Benchmark Reviews
http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_conten...
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a b G Storage
March 6, 2012 3:50:21 AM

We do see the Revo X2 win over a lot of situations by quiet a margin sometimes nearly twice the hybrid but, these are after all synthetic benches. Once you get into using the disc the differences are visible quite differently.
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March 6, 2012 7:51:03 PM

I haven't looked into it for several months, but last I checked, you can't boot from a PCIe SSD.

PCIe SSDs are crazy expensive. You could purchase several Samsung 830s for the same price and have separate drives for your OS/Games/Apps/Page-file.
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March 6, 2012 11:34:25 PM

Thanks, after looking at the reviews you linked to and some that I found myself I've come to the conclusion that a plain pcie ssd like the revodrive 3 x2, when the price is right, or possibly the x2, will be the way to go. It seems like on the surface the hybrid is fast but when you take in the benchmarks for any real world applications it always seems to come out in the middle rankings. Thanks for your help and everyone's additional insights.


@ kewlx25 - There are a handful of bootable pcie ssds out today. Mostly OCZ so far.
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March 6, 2012 11:36:16 PM

Best answer selected by suteck.
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a b G Storage
March 7, 2012 2:22:03 AM

Actually it's the inability of Mobos to boot from the PCIe not the inability of the PCIe SSD.
Most mobo nowadays do have the ability to boot from the PCIe after an upgrade in the BIOS, there is an official list of mobos that boot from the PCIe Slots, very specific slots.
Even my GD70 is able to boot from the PCIe after a new BIOS but unofficial one.
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March 7, 2012 12:16:08 PM

alyoshka said:
Actually it's the inability of Mobos to boot from the PCIe not the inability of the PCIe SSD.
Most mobo nowadays do have the ability to boot from the PCIe after an upgrade in the BIOS, there is an official list of mobos that boot from the PCIe Slots, very specific slots.
Even my GD70 is able to boot from the PCIe after a new BIOS but unofficial one.


suteck also.

Both, Thanks :-)
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March 27, 2012 2:48:01 AM

alyoshka said:
Yes, the Hybrid will give you the best performance from the drives listed.

Now, we'll get to why.
The difference between the 2 drives, firstly the Hybrid is one generation newer, it's 2011 product and the X2 is a 2010 product.
The hybrid uses the SF2281 controllers and the X2 uses the SF1222 controllers
X2 is PCIe first gen the Hybrid is PCIe 2.0.
The performance for the Hybrid should be somewhere closer to the X2 if not a tad higher, mainly because of the advancement in technology. The lag or factor pulling it down would only be the platter drive.
The advantage of the Hybrid is the pure price/gb thing.
Logic:
If the first gen PCIe SSDs were fast enough for me, but, the price/gb was too much and continues to be too high, then, when the 3rd gen SSDs or Hybrid drives come out giving me the same performance, but greater value for money from the price/gb POV , then, I would go for it,but, only as my OS drive.
Data will continue to stay on the platters.

X2 Benchmark Reviews
http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_conten...
Hybrid Revo Benchmark Reviews
http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_conten...


alyoshka said:
We do see the Revo X2 win over a lot of situations by quiet a margin sometimes nearly twice the hybrid but, these are after all synthetic benches. Once you get into using the disc the differences are visible quite differently.


There are some basic architectural principles behind all this:

For pure execution speed you want FAST for both the OS and the EXEs. Both of these are high I/O to get the part that needs to be processed to the - wait for it - processor. If a 4gb "SSD" front end were sufficient to really offset the real world execution, then a 4gb DDR3 would be both cheaper and faster. By design, the parts that need to be executed will be rolled into the available RAM on demand. I say this noting that I have a Momentus XT hybrid drive as my boot drive. I am maxed for my MoBo at 8gb of memory so I saw this as a cheap way of adding 4gb more or what we used to call "main storage" (I think I just gave my age away). In a single level storage model (what Microsoft would like to get to) whether the absolute memory address of anything that is needed in a RAM flavor is mapped to that physical location (the address of the object is rolled into physical RAM, the address stays the same, but it is no longer geographically on disk). The beauty of this model is that once something resolves to that address, it stays resolved and doesn't have to go through that traumatic process that is the substantial work of an execution startup. (When an exe calls a dll this is the resolution process. In the current model the OS has to figure out the physical address of both items and tie them together. In an SLS architecture this only has to be done once, demonstrating why JAVA is so incredibly fast in an SLS architecture).

For everything on my computer to run at maximum speed, it all would have to fit into the SSD space. After my install of Win 7 Ultimate x64 and the various applications I use, my "execution" parts required 48GB. Add the page file (8GB) and the medium I'm working with and I'm comfortable at about 64 GB. Waiting for any other media to roll into RAM is fairly trivial at this point, usually just a one time shot until I have the finished product that relocates to the spinning platters.

Most functions can't run all the parts needed to execute in 4GB of memory of any flavor. Therefore, our goal is get everything that is COMMONLY required to execute into a fast memory location. In a typical example we want the OS needed to perform the operation, the operation performed by the application and the object (medium) that is going to be processed in the fastest memory at all times. If we're re-indexing a a huge Word document we want all the parts needed to do this in fast memory already when we run the indexing procedure. The same is true, but on a much larger scale when we're doing non-linear editing of a video. If we have reasonable RAM and are only doing one thing, the operation is only slowed down by the hunk of data (that's the professional term) that needs to roll through RAM (I'm using the term "RAM" to indicate the memory space where operations can take place. I realize RAM is really a what, not a where).

The most real estate hungry objects on the computer are media. A decent HD movie can easily eat up 10 gb of memory. Most of the time, we access that object sequentially and are only processing at about 10-40 mbps (a 320 kpbs MP3 files only needs 320 kpbs). This is why the best bang for buck for media storage is the "green" variable RPM drives. When you're working on a specific object, you move it to your SSD, then when you're done it's back to good ol' rotating platters.

So with way too many words what I've said is that solutions that say "OS here, programs there and data somewhere else" are not effective. If you're converting a video with Handbrake and a fast CPU you want the 23mb of Handbrake, the ??? mb of Windows needed to support Handbrake and a good chunk of your media that is being converted AND has been converted in fast memory. With a hybrid drive that is working correctly, all that should be in that 4gb SSD portion. Therefore, you keep your OS, Applications and Media Work Area on the hybrid drive. Everything else is fine living mechanically because at this moment we have nothing that needs to travel faster than 150 mpbs (the theoretical top speed of disc storage).

Now for the ultimate question PCIe SSD or SATA 6 SSD you have the possibility of getting faster throughput with the PCIe flavor. This is fairly obvious as the SATA 6 SSD is traveling through a SATA 6 controller that is attached to the PCIe bus. Anything read has to travel through and be processed by this controller. One more bottleneck in the pipeline. Your performance will be decided by the level of technology in the electronics. A great interface on the PCIe SSD adapter should acheive maximum performance.

I hope this is helpful. I know I learned a little bit researching for it. Thanks for a good question and challenging solution. Now to budget a PCIe SSD!

K3v!n
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