Dual rad for single CPU + GPU loop?

[jholla]

I've been looking into water cooling lately and from what i read online a single 240/280 wouldn't cut it if i want a single CPU and GPU loop.
So, my question is.. would a single 240 or 280 standard rad from EK cut it or should i add an other rad? (I would be able to add a 140 on the back)
I'm going to be doing this a a mid tower case for a 360 isn't even an option. I would also like to stay away from external rads.
CPU: Intel core i5 2500k
GPU: EVGA geforce GTX 680 FTW 4gb

Please tell me what you guys think i should do, or if i missed anything that you would need to know!

 

[steddora]

Personally, if you're not doing a lot of overclocking; the single large radiator could probably keep the system within stock specs. But if you're doing any clocking or your CPU runs hot, I'd definitely separate them with their own radiators. It's just more efficient that way and you don't have to worry about heated water going to the GPU or CPU.

Remember, the water only gets cooled in that radiator; so without cooling the water first; the water will be warm when it gets to the next block. Personally, I'd just skip the idea and run a radiator for each of them to eliminate any worry.

 

[Lutfij]

from what i read online a single 240/280 wouldn't cut it if i want a single CPU and GPU loop.

is the source of that discovery, from the watercooling sticky v2 ?

external rads?

here's some food for thought,
If you were supposed to go vacation with 10 relatives(w/ their nuclear family) and all you have is a Toyota Camry, would you cram everyone in that or try managing a minivan to get everyone across the pond ?

 

[jholla]

Personally, if you're not doing a lot of overclocking; the single large radiator could probably keep the system within stock specs. But if you're doing any clocking or your CPU runs hot, I'd definitely separate them with their own radiators. It's just more efficient that way and you don't have to worry about heated water going to the GPU or CPU.

Remember, the water only gets cooled in that radiator; so without cooling the water first; the water will be warm when it gets to the next block. Personally, I'd just skip the idea and run a radiator for each of them to eliminate any worry.

So what your saying is that i would need 2 loops? 1 for each?
Because if that's the case i'm not sure i would have enough room for 2 pumps... ect.

 

[steddora]

Either or really. Depends on the power of the pump and just how far you're pushing the water. If I was in that situation here's what I would do.

Res -> pump -> cpu -> radiator -> GPU -> radiator #2 -> res

Of course that's much more simpler than it will be but that's what I'd be aiming for. That way I know everything stays cool, the GPU and CPU both have their own radiator cooling off their heat waste. Personally, I don't prefer water cooling unless then entire system is going to get the treatment. So I'd actually want a giant case with blocks for the GPU, CPU, NB, and anything else that may need cooled.

However, someone with more experience with big loops could tell you better than I can personally. I just know that I wouldn't want both blocks to be ran without a radiator between them. That way I'm not dealing with hot water going over a component.

 

[Lutfij]

If your TDP calc and the choice of rads are correct, or more, then there's no worry of getting water onto another component. Its the lack of rad space that makes heat remain in the loop to heat up another block/component.

 

[rubix_1011]

Seems there are a couple things that need to be clarified so far:

You shouldn't need 2 loops for a CPU+ 1GPU loop. Single loop is fine. Single rad is fine. It's all about TDP. A 280 should be enough, but you might be fine with a thick 240...again...all about combined TDP.

There isn't a case where water is warm or hot from one component to the next. Loop flow moves very quickly and you'll find that water temps at any single point in the loop will likely only differ just a few degrees Celsius at most. This is a very common misconception and you don't need a radiator between any components based on this idea. Loop order does not matter for loop temps as you would see almost negligible load temp differences based on different radiator placement in the loop.

It's much simpler to account for the amount of radiator space you'll need and determine where to mount it and then simply run tubing and fittings in the simplest layout possible.

 

[jholla]

Seems there are a couple things that need to be clarified so far:

You shouldn't need 2 loops for a CPU+ 1GPU loop. Single loop is fine. Single rad is fine. It's all about TDP. A 280 should be enough, but you might be fine with a thick 240...again...all about combined TDP.

There isn't a case where water is warm or hot from one component to the next. Loop flow moves very quickly and you'll find that water temps at any single point in the loop will likely only differ just a few degrees Celsius at most. This is a very common misconception and you don't need a radiator between any components based on this idea. Loop order does not matter for loop temps as you would see almost negligible load temp differences based on different radiator placement in the loop.

It's much simpler to account for the amount of radiator space you'll need and determine where to mount it and then simply run tubing and fittings in the simplest layout possible.

The reason I want to go with a 280 and not a thick 240 is because i'm already going to have to "ghetto mod" my hard drive cage over so the rad can fit. I want to leave as much room as possible for for my psu and all of its cables and i have to mount my res/pump on the top of the cage. If the cage is too far to the left I will not longer be able to fit the res/pump because the beefy FTW 680 would be right above it.
At this point i'm just seeing if i can keep the cost as low as possible, as effective as possible, as quiet as possible, and make sure it can all fit in the first place!

 

[amuffin]

What case?

 

[Motopsychojdn]

Why not an external radbox for all the pump/res radiator requirements?
and you have already discovered that which I love to say,
W/c is modding.
Don't worry, we'll help
**Edit, One large loop is easier and should be cheaper than two separate loops**
Moto

 

[jholla]

What case?

Fractal define r4. That's why i want to keep it in the case, because it is possible, but tight.

 

[jholla]

Why not an external radbox for all the pump/res radiator requirements?
and you have already discovered that which I love to say,
W/c is modding.
Don't worry, we'll help
**Edit, One large loop is easier and should be cheaper than two separate loops**
Moto

I just don't like the look of thing going in and out of the case, i was hoping just to keep it all inside if possible...

 

[rubix_1011]

I wouldn't sacrifice cooling performance of a loop simply based on aesthetics. If you can't properly cool the components in the loop there isn't any reason to use watercooling. That being said, a CPU + a 680 should be OK on a single 280 as long as you aren't really overclocking anything a great deal. Running a 280 is similar to running a 360 in most instances.

 

[jholla]

I wouldn't sacrifice cooling performance of a loop simply based on aesthetics. If you can't properly cool the components in the loop there isn't any reason to use watercooling. That being said, a CPU + a 680 should be OK on a single 280 as long as you aren't really overclocking anything a great deal. Running a 280 is similar to running a 360 in most instances.

I'm going to be cooling a 680 FTW 4gb, which means that it's pre overclocked to 1110ghz and my i5 2500k will be getting overclocked to 4.5ghz or higher hopefully. These are my cooling need for a water cooling loop and i'm wondering if a single 280 could handle that in this set up:

rad>res/pump>gpu>cpu>back to rad

and if that can't handle it i would do this (rad #2 will be a 140)

rad #1>res/pump>gpu>rad #2> cpu> back to rad #1


and i'm trying to find out if i can even mount the res/pump on my hard drive cage even after i move it for the 280 that will be doing in the back.

EDIT: check out my profile picture, that is my current set up as of this monent. Te rad will be flush with the front fans and the hard drives will be moved over. Do you think i will be able to fit a res/pump from ek there?

 

[Lutfij]

got a link to your gallery, magnify isn't quite friendly with lil imagery, its not like the movies where you can zoom in x30 from a small store camera

sorry for the sarcasm. Looking forward to what you have now, as I've seen many people work with Fractal cases. Just remember, squashing things inside will only dent your already immaculate choice of parts.

 

[jholla]

got a link to your gallery, magnify isn't quite friendly with lil imagery, its not like the movies where you can zoom in x30 from a small store camera

sorry for the sarcasm. Looking forward to what you have now, as I've seen many people work with Fractal cases. Just remember, squashing things inside will only dent you already immaculate choice of parts.

do you think the single rad would fit/work decently in this case?

fyi, I've got this guy powering 3x 23" monitors for nvidia surround, thats why i'm still trying to get more performance from the set up that i've already got.

 

[Motopsychojdn]

As well as reducing airflow to the whole
Moto

 

[Lutfij]

^ yeah and if you add those triple monitor setup, that just means more heat...more compromises.

I'll try taking a look at some pics of that case, a lil busy doing some work on my drawings...

where's the gallery mate?

 

[Motopsychojdn]

**I just don't like the look of thing going in and out of the case, i was hoping just to keep it all inside if possible...**
Why not design the box as a pedestal that the main Pc sits on top of?
That way you could have the tubing/wiring go up through the floor of the Pc, so there wouldn't be anything visible from the outside to show what it actually was,
Personally I'd run a 240/280 in the case and two 360's in a box, the 240/280 allows for the Cpu and that leaves the equivalent of a 360 for each Gpu to try and heat, overclocked or not its sufficient to deal with the workload here
Moto

 

[jholla]

^ yeah and if you add those triple monitor setup, that just means more heat...more compromises.

I'll try taking a look at some pics of that case, a lil busy doing some work on my drawings...

where's the gallery mate?

You want me to make a gallery of my set up? or do you just want the gallery for the bare bones of the case?

 

[Lutfij]

whatever you have to work with, ofc, if you don't have a gallery now'd be a good time to open an acc with photbucket. Will come in handy later downthe road

 

[jholla]

whatever you have to work with, ofc, if you don't have a gallery now'd be a good time to open an acc with photbucket. Will come in handy later downthe road

http://imgur.com/a/vYwSU#0

^That's the best i can do for now. I only have a few pictures on my computer and I don't have my camera atm, but if they aren't good enough I can have better ones up in a day or two!

 

[Lutfij]

hate to tell you this but you'll notice a severe impact on your internal rad setup. From here on, I'd like to make headway with your build, so I'd like it if you'd work with me as well help me help you kinda thing.

Why are you moving to watercooling btw?
How much are you investing in this fun *tight* project?
What sort of rads are you aiming at?
How dya see yourself mounting the rads?

* I'd have recommend reading the sticky 10 times before answering but this usually doesn't end well.

So lets get moving, shall we?

 

[jholla]

hate to tell you this but you'll notice a severe impact on your internal rad setup. From here on, I'd like to make headway with your build, so I'd like it if you'd work with me as well help me help you kinda thing.

Why are you moving to watercooling btw?
How much are you investing in this fun *tight* project?
What sort of rads are you aiming at?
How dya see yourself mounting the rads?

* I'd have recommend reading the sticky 10 times before answering but this usually doesn't end well.

So lets get moving, shall we?

Why: I want to get some high over clocks on my cpu, I want to cool my gpu a bit more, and i want a quieter case.
How much: I honestly have no idea, but from the research that i've already done... it isn't going to be cheap.
rads: the most ideal way would be a 280 in the front.
Mounting: Like this

 

[Lutfij]

hmmm,
my point still stands mate:
1| the only sort of rads you're going to be able to accommodate on the front panel (via the mod) is slim depth radiators=high FPI=high rpm fans=more noise(whirring)
2| mentioned in the sticky, check this out
3| the whole point of me saying no to an internal layout in that very case is having slim rads. This'll defeat the purpose of your quieter setup to be a money guzzling, objective defeating setup.
4| best setup a budget mate, we can move up or down from there.
5| problems with just copy/pasting ideas off of blogs is that they(the client+builder) have worked out some issues to reach the end of a build. Maybe the client wasn't even bothered by noise or he just needed to showoff that he can afford watercooling parts.

6| your most ideal setup isn't just one rad hanging in the front of a case.
7| you do realize that even if you go for that 280rad , ideally the rad will be in push/pull config to achieve the best possible, low noise setup...even better would be to have the fans with a shroud in between both fans - i.e: 2x25+30+2x25=(fan+shroud+rad+shroud+fan)=130mm
8| setting up rad in the front to blow into case - will dump the heat inside case, so rig temps will rise, essentially you're feeding your cpu+GPU+mobo warmer air - this'll add heat to your components & loop. Nothing worth crying over now, but in summer - this'll put you off watercooling for good as you'll believe you've spent all that for a silly classroom project.
9| in support of that, high OC's will mean more juice, more heat
10| noise is subjective, quiet can mean alot to alot of people. In fact I whisper whenever I'm asked to be quiet :lol:
11| so we'd like your experience to be worthwhile and maybe treat us with some cool pics of your build.

hope that explains alot.

Take a look at this link, Fractal Design Case Club and go through the pages, see if anyone else has done anything different. I'd suggest moving away from the norm and having something true to yourself

Finally, please read the watercooling sticky a couple of times, alot of stuff is detailed in it, where dya think we learnt the info? BTW, Rubix can be counted out cos he wrote up the sticky