Does Nvidia Physx matters?

[santi28]

For real,does it matter? all the physx on-off videos in youtube showcasing Physx seems to be endorsed by Nvidia, so doesn't really have any credibility(imo at least). I am new PC enthusiast, the only highend card i ever bought was a GTX280 so I wouldn't know what a high-end ATI could do. I am thinking of going ATI for my new rig(5970 perhaps?), but because fear of of loosing Physx, I am hesitating. Any constructive opinion on this would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you

 

[strangestranger]

No you are not losing anything that matters.. Next question?

 

[paperfox]

You are not loosing anything that great, Physx has been described as "if you don’t have it you wont miss it". Getting a newer 5000 series from ATI will give you a far better price/performance ratio than those other high end Nvidia cards. If you really want to, you can buy a low end Nvidia card to run Physx off of and use an older driver as the newer ones disable Physx when an ATI card is detected.

 

[JackNaylorPE]

For real,does it matter? all the physx on-off videos in youtube showcasing Physx seems to be endorsed by Nvidia, so doesn't really have any credibility(imo at least). I am new PC enthusiast, the only highend card i ever bought was a GTX280 so I wouldn't know what a high-end ATI could do. I am thinking of going ATI for my new rig(5970 perhaps?), but because fear of of loosing Physx, I am hesitating. Any constructive opinion on this would be greatly appreciated.

Well a question like that on an open forum is like asking if the Yankees are the greatest team in baseball ... you'll tend to get different answers from different fans many of which won't fall into the realm of "constructive opinion" you asked for.

Simply stated, there's no reason to lose anything..... thousands of ATI users are enjoying PhysX and finding it well worth their investment. I don't consider myself a real gamer but will play about 2 or 3 games per year. With three teenage sons, I do see a lot of games. I can say that I was a lot more impressed with PhysX in Batman than anything yet that I have seen w/ DX11. THG writes:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/batman-arkham-asylum,2465-11.html

Turning on PhysX isn't necessary for gameplay, and you'll never miss it if you don't see the effects. However, when PhysX is enabled, it adds superlative nuances and really creates some “wow” moments. The chunky explosions, cloth effects, paper, fog, and environmental detail enhancements are very cool.....the eye candy is a lot of fun to watch. Once you've turned it on, it's not something you'll turn off if your hardware can handle it.

But don't let THG's, mine or anyone's opinions sway your decision....decide for yaself by popping over to the link below and watching the video:

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/batman_arkham_asylum_physx_performance/page2.asp

Now if ya still reading at this point, ya have two choices .....

1. Wait a month and see what nVidia drops .... worse case you'll probably pay a bit less for ya 5970 with DX11 competition on the scene. If ya get a fermi thing, no PhysX worries.

2. If ya stick with the 5970, read this link which in turn points you to the driver hack site which lets you install ATI and nVidia drivers side by side as long as you have Windows 7:

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvidia-ATI-physx-patch-gpu,8786.html
http://www.ngohq.com/graphic-cards/16223-nvidia-disables-physx-when-ati-card-is-present-110.html

I gotta assume that with your eye on a $650 5970, the $65 investment in a dedicated PhysX card will not be an issue.

As you will see in the 1,100 post thread referenced in the above article, it works with the latest drivers

 

[Mousemonkey]

losing

Didn't work mate.

 

[strangestranger]

If I were a paranoid fellow I would think the whole internet did it just to taunt me.

 

[Mousemonkey]

If I were a paranoid fellow I would think the whole internet did it just to taunt me.

Now you are loosing your grip. [:mousemonkey]

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

I agree, people shouldnt play so loosely with the english language, and makes the paranoid lose their minds

 

[strangestranger]

*sharpens knives*

 

[Mousemonkey]

*Dons kevlar vest*

 

[notty22]

If a Stranger sees you, don't look in his eyes.
[flash=425,344]http://www.youtube.com/v/uAhFQKV-7vI&hl=en_US&fs=1&[/flash]

 

[SV_Bubbles]

Physics is something.
Physx (with invisible quotation marks) could be something in the future if it wasn't choked from being open. It's a good experiment and was when it was owned by Ageia.

 

[3d_computer_system]

I think 3D Vision is good, i have seen it and i love it,

 

[astrodudepsu]

*Dons kevlar vest*

Kevlar will not stop a serious knife wound.


I've had Physx, it was nice, but I wouldn't pay extra for it. Especially in today's graphics market.

 

[AMW1011]

PhysX? I keep it off in the 4-5 titles that actually use it. By use it I mean the GPU accelerated part, not the PhysX engine part that runs on the CPU. To be honest, it is only decent in Batman AA, but it isn't worth the performance hit if you don't have a discreet GPU. It also isn't worth buying a discreet GPU either, but if you have one laying around then I guess you could, but don't expect much.

Don't use your GTX 280 as a discreet card, it will be wasted. The maximum you could need is a 8800 GTS 512mb/9800GTX/GTS250, and the GTX 280 can still sell well used for those looking to SLI.

As for DX11 vs. PhysX, Jack tends to leave out something important. PhysX has been out for 3-4 years, DX11 has been out for 4-5 months. It takes ~2 years to build a game. And after all that time, PhysX is only really effective in a single game, as per Jack's link, Batman AA. Also, DX11 is a complete graphics API, including physics and everything else.

 

[santi28]

Well a question like that on an open forum is like asking if the Yankees are the greatest team in baseball ... you'll tend to get different answers from different fans many of which won't fall into the realm of "constructive opinion" you asked for.

Simply stated, there's no reason to lose anything..... thousands of ATI users are enjoying PhysX and finding it well worth their investment. I don't consider myself a real gamer but will play about 2 or 3 games per year. With three teenage sons, I do see a lot of games. I can say that I was a lot more impressed with PhysX in Batman than anything yet that I have seen w/ DX11. THG writes:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/batman-arkham-asylum,2465-11.html

Turning on PhysX isn't necessary for gameplay, and you'll never miss it if you don't see the effects. However, when PhysX is enabled, it adds superlative nuances and really creates some “wow” moments. The chunky explosions, cloth effects, paper, fog, and environmental detail enhancements are very cool.....the eye candy is a lot of fun to watch. Once you've turned it on, it's not something you'll turn off if your hardware can handle it.

But don't let THG's, mine or anyone's opinions sway your decision....decide for yaself by popping over to the link below and watching the video:

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/batman_arkham_asylum_physx_performance/page2.asp

Now if ya still reading at this point, ya have two choices .....

1. Wait a month and see what nVidia drops .... worse case you'll probably pay a bit less for ya 5970 with DX11 competition on the scene. If ya get a fermi thing, no PhysX worries.

2. If ya stick with the 5970, read this link which in turn points you to the driver hack site which lets you install ATI and nVidia drivers side by side as long as you have Windows 7:

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvidia-ATI-physx-patch-gpu,8786.html
http://www.ngohq.com/graphic-cards/16223-nvidia-disables-physx-when-ati-card-is-present-110.html

I gotta assume that with your eye on a $650 5970, the $65 investment in a dedicated PhysX card will not be an issue.

As you will see in the 1,100 post thread referenced in the above article, it works with the latest drivers

thanks for the great explanation, I'll have to look into the dedicated Physx card thing, seems very interesting.

 

[santi28]

Best answer selected by santi28.

 

[santi28]

Thank for all the great feedbacks guys

 

[santi28]

PhysX? I keep it off in the 4-5 titles that actually use it. By use it I mean the GPU accelerated part, not the PhysX engine part that runs on the CPU. To be honest, it is only decent in Batman AA, but it isn't worth the performance hit if you don't have a discreet GPU. It also isn't worth buying a discreet GPU either, but if you have one laying around then I guess you could, but don't expect much.

Don't use your GTX 280 as a discreet card, it will be wasted. The maximum you could need is a 8800 GTS 512mb/9800GTX/GTS250, and the GTX 280 can still sell well used for those looking to SLI.

As for DX11 vs. PhysX, Jack tends to leave out something important. PhysX has been out for 3-4 years, DX11 has been out for 4-5 months. It takes ~2 years to build a game. And after all that time, PhysX is only really effective in a single game, as per Jack's link, Batman AA. Also, DX11 is a complete graphics API, including physics and everything else.

Thanks for the info.

now that u mentioned it, I am kinda interested in the discreet physx GPU thing. 8800gts seems a bit dated, maybe a 220 or 240? already pushing the limit on my PSU, so don't really want to add anything power consuming.

maybe my build would be ATI 5970 + Geforce 240(or 220) or GTX 480(fermi), gotta go do some more research

 

[JackNaylorPE]

From the same THG article linked above:

The good news here is that a GeForce GT 220 can be had for as little as $65 online, and as a dedicated PhysX card, it will guarantee that the High PhysX setting won't bottleneck performance. Even at 1920x1200, the GT 220 produced a minimum frame rate of 36 FPS as a dedicated PhysX card. Using more expensive solutions as dedicated PhysX processors didn't produce appreciably higher frame rates, so the GeForce GT 220 is a real PhysX champion for the price.

 

[JackNaylorPE]

As for DX11 vs. PhysX, Jack tends to leave out something important. PhysX has been out for 3-4 years, DX11 has been out for 4-5 months. It takes ~2 years to build a game. And after all that time, PhysX is only really effective in a single game, as per Jack's link, Batman AA. Also, DX11 is a complete graphics API, including physics and everything else.

I was only addressing current needs, not XMas 2011. As I have said in many other posts, DX11 won't start to really show us what it can do till at least summer 2011...and my guess is, given what we've seen so far in THG's Dirt 2 article where DX11 was incorporated to only a minor extent, the most demanding games of XMas 2011 I think will humble any GFX card on the market today.

I don't see a $50 GT 220 as putting a budget crunch on someone buying a 5970.....especially when that is selling for $50 - $100 over its MSRP.

 

[AMW1011]

Wow, good job Jack, you convinced him to buy a dedicated GPU so he can enable dead tech.

Something I did not mention is that PhysX is dead. DX11 will be the future of GPU accelerated physics because it supports compute shaders that allow any DX11 GPU to do many of the same things that are left to the CPU, not just physics. What makes it the future is that it will work on ATI and nVidia cards, not just nVidia cards. As I said, you will only see even a slight benefit in one game, nothing more. If you want to spend $60+ to get some flying paper and fuller explosions in one game then by all means. Just know what you are doing.

Jack, we are definitely talking about the future. He isn't going to spend money for a single good game, he is expecting to see these differences in the future, but he will not. You failed to mention that.

 

[santi28]

Wow, good job Jack, you convinced him to buy a dedicated GPU so he can enable dead tech.

Something I did not mention is that PhysX is dead. DX11 will be the future of GPU accelerated physics because it supports compute shaders that allow any DX11 GPU to do many of the same things that are left to the CPU, not just physics. What makes it the future is that it will work on ATI and nVidia cards, not just nVidia cards. As I said, you will only see even a slight benefit in one game, nothing more. If you want to spend $60+ to get some flying paper and fuller explosions in one game then by all means. Just know what you are doing.

Jack, we are definitely talking about the future. He isn't going to spend money for a single good game, he is expecting to see these differences in the future, but he will not. You failed to mention that.

Soo ah... do you have any articles/further reading I can read that supports what you have said? not to picky or anything, I just want to be well informed.

thanks

 

[AMW1011]

Soo ah... do you have any articles/further reading I can read that supports what you have said? not to picky or anything, I just want to be well informed.

thanks

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2329316,00.asp
http://www.elitebastards.com/?option=com_content&task=view&id=611&Itemid=29&limit=1&limitstart=3
http://s08.idav.ucdavis.edu/boyd-dx11-compute-shader.pdf
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20090929095918_Nvidia_Reportedly_Limits_PhysX_Support_to_Nvidia_Only_Graphics_Sub_Systems.html
http://tech.icrontic.com/news/amd-comments-on-nvidia-dropping-physx-support-when-ati-hardware-is-present/
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2008/12/11/amd-exec-says-physx-will-die/1
http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/amd_physx_and_other_proprietary_standards_will_die_off
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20091001171332_AMD_Nvidia_PhysX_Will_Be_Irrelevant.html

A lot of those are re-posts, but they should give you general knowledge.

Really it comes down to common sense, the proprietary API that only works one half the market will fail while the open API that does the same and more, as well as being natively supported in DX11 games, that doesn't discriminate between ATI or nVidia will win.

Here is a list of all the games that support GPU PhysX acceleration current and in development, note that some of thsoe have been released already.:
http://www.nzone.com/object/nzone_physxgames_home.html

The only game that really benefits from PhysX in any meaningful way is Batman AA, check Jack's link. Please look up all those future games and name one that is interesting in the least.

That is about the best I can do, just use some common sense. If you are still set on PhysX then get the cheapest GT 240 you can possibly find.

 

[JackNaylorPE]

Something I did not mention is that PhysX is dead. DX11 will be the future of GPU accelerated physics because it supports compute shaders that allow any DX11 GPU to do many of the same things that are left to the CPU, not just physics. What makes it the future is that it will work on ATI and nVidia cards, not just nVidia cards. As I said, you will only see even a slight benefit in one game, nothing more. If you want to spend $60+ to get some flying paper and fuller explosions in one game then by all means. Just know what you are doing.

Well , quoting THG, it sure seems like they were a lot more impressed with PhysX in Batman than they were with DX11 in Dirt 2 .... I recall reading, "once you turn PhysX on, you won't turn it off" and "DX11 has marginal impact on gameplay while taking a colossal hit on performance".

So whaddya think is going to happen to all those bug bucks executives at Asus and EVGA who have just released PhysX only hardware....PhysX only GFX cards, PhysX specific MoBos .....I'm gonna guess that these industry insiders who get paid lotsa money to know what they are doing will be on the unemployment line in 6 months. I guess they shoulda consulted with you first before they made this major decisions which will have a major impact on their company's bottom line .

I am less concerned with promoting one company over another than I am in in helping people enjoy themselves. If you think $65 investment is a huge waste, I'm sorry....to me and all the 1,000 + posters over at:

http://www.ngohq.com/graphic-cards/16223-nvidia-disables-physx-when-ati-card-is-present-28.html#post82812

All these ATI owners apparently found the $65 well worth it....tho it seems most when in bigger and bought better cards.