New 1600-2400 Pc for trading

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dmavro

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APPROXIMATE PURCHASE DATE:As soon as possible
BUDGET RANGE: 1600-2400 (not including monitors)

SYSTEM USAGE FROM MOST TO LEAST IMPORTANT:For trading , running multiple spreadsheets, i also use multiple apps at same time( some of my apps suck up alot of system resources) , doing research online

I use 2 different apps for trading (Tradestation and CQG) , I also develop trading systems that at times can be doing tons of calculations at once.

PARTS NOT REQUIRED: monitors

PREFERRED WEBSITE(S) FOR PARTS: Tigerdirect.com or Newegg.com (it really doesnt make a difference to me)

COUNTRY OF ORIGIN: USA

PARTS PREFERENCES:Intel CPU (was thinking about XEON W3520 or X5550 or core i7 920) , Asus or gigabyte Mobo(wanted eSATA if possible and some USB3.0 ports so i was thinking of GigaByte GA-X58A-UD5, 6GB DDR3 memory either 1333mhz or higher , 2x velociraptor 300Gb HD's, 2x Nvidia Quadro NVS 420's(need functionality for 8 monitors ) , i also need 1 optical drive, power supply (no preference) ,NO RAID

(someone told me to look into ?JBOD? No clue what that is)

I would like to stick with intel x58 chipset (unless someone thinks im off base)

*** These are all just parts i looked at based on research i did and on some recommendations that were made to me. Im open to anything but would like to stick with Intel CPU***

OVERCLOCKING:Maybe( have to find out how my trading apps run with this)
SLI OR CROSSFIRE:NOT Sure if i have any need for this??

MONITOR RESOLUTION: 4x(1280x1024) 4x(1920x1200)

ADDITIONAL COMMENTS:No neon lights on case(NO Bling!!) , The QUIETER the better . I also have no clue about fans and liquid cooling or Hard drive cooling??? No clue about Hard Disk controllers either.

Would like to have extra slots on Mobo so i can add to system eventually.
 
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antisyzygy

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Just look at the general guidelines in this forum. You wont need a killer graphics card, but the i7 would help alot with calculations. Go with the higher end build for your price range. I do plenty of optimizations in Metatrader 4 and I dont even use up 25 percent of my quad core Phenom II.

 
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MadAdmiral

MadAdmiral

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CPU: i7-920 $289
Mobo: Asus P6X58D Premium $310
HSF: Coolermaster Hyper 212 Plus $30
RAM: 2x Mushkin Enahnced Redline 3x2 GB 1600 mhz CAS Latency 6 $500
HDD: Samsung Spinpoint F3 1 TB $90
SSD: 128 GB $375
Case: HAF 922 $90 after rebate. The lights can be turned off.
PSU: OCZ Z Series 850W 80+ Gold $200
OS: Windows 7 Pro 64-bit OEM $140. $35 less if you only need Home.

Total: $2,024. I don't know much about workstation GPUs, so go ahead with the ones you pointed to.

A couple of notes. The Samsung in the build is faster than VRs. The SSD is an order of magnitude faster than that.
 
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dmavro

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I know that the xeons r usually used in workstations and the the new core i7's r usually used for gaming Pc's . At least that what i noticed when i was at a few of the custom pc sites. Alot of the custom sites didnt even offer the xeons i was looking at , they seem to always have the i7's in there custom builds. Dell seems to only offer the xeons in there workstations. What is the difference between the core i7 920 and the xeon W3520?
 
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antisyzygy

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Core i7 is NOT a gaming CPU. Its just a general purpose CPU. I believe that Xeons use ECC memory, which gives better error protection and correction which is more important for servers or computers that need to have utmost reliability.

As far as I know, the i7's are a newer platform, they are fast, and would be probably more up your alley.
 
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antisyzygy

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BTW. When I say "utmost" reliability. I am talking about applications such as keeping a server with your business website running reliably for weeks at a time. If you keep your computer on for a day or two at a time it should be fine not using ECC ram. Just restart every day or so, or shut it down once in awhile.
 
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MadAdmiral

MadAdmiral

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To be honest, I have no idea. I believe the Xeons are made for servers, and the i7s are made for desktops. I don't really know what separates them technically.

I will say that the i7 is more of a workhorse than a gaming CPU. A true gaming CPU is the i5. It's cheap(ish) and has features such as turbo mode to specialize it for gaming.
 
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antisyzygy

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Yes. I5's are more of a gaming CPU, i7's are more of a multi-tasking/multi-threaded cpu. Xeons are meant to dissipate heat better, run longer periods of time (weeks instead of days), and can use ECC memory. Xeons are for servers or possibly a workstation you would run calculations on for many, many hours before they are done. This only would be needed if you were doing something like computational fluid dynamics or something. A trading platform calculating moving averages, RSI, or various other time-series would not need a Xeon. You would only need a Xeon if you somehow were running some complicated numerical stochastic differential equations or something that took 19 hours before it would complete.
 
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MadAdmiral

MadAdmiral

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Great. Now I know what makes them different.

It might also be worth noting that the higher end server CPUs are two to three times more expensive than the highest priced i7. Not to mention that the server boards start at the same price as the most expensive i7 boards...
 
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dmavro

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i do a lot of optimization with historical data. When i do this my PC runs thousands of calculations with data going back usually a year on daily and even on intraday data. So if i run optimization on 10 minute timeframe going back a year it ends up being a ton of data. Not to mention the fact that at times i could be optimizing for a few variables with 100 or 200 possible outcomes each. So the calculations compound very quickly when i run on 10 minute bars going back a year. I have purchased dell t3400 workstations for this in the past only because they were recommended by dell after i explained to them what i was doing. And those systems i have bogged down before on many occasions .
 
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jsrudd

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I don't know what kind of processor(s) you would have in your t3400. If you have had a single processor than an i7 will be much more powerful than what you had. If you had dual processors (either dual or quad core) before and they were still getting bogged down then maybe you should get get two of the newer xeons. They should be able to handle pretty much anything.

One thing to consider is the extent to which your software is optimized for multi-core threading. If you're only running one program and it is not well optimized for multi-core threading then it will not use the full power of two xeons and they would be a waste. The true power of xeons is in a server which is running many processes at once.
 
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antisyzygy

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I understand. Optimizing on 3 parameters each set up in steps of 30 will give you 30^3 runs. This paired with 10 minute periods over a year add up to many, many calculations. Personally, I use MT4 and run optimizations and it doesn't even use 25 percent of my CPU yet it still takes hours. This leads me to believe that its not coded to utilize multiple cores or threads. I am not familiar with your platform, but I would assume that a processor with high through-put and speed would benefit you more than multiple cores unless your platform can run parallel or multi-threaded optimizations. I dont see why a higher clocked (higher GhZ) i7 wouldnt be more than sufficient, just make sure you get 8gb of at least 1600 DDR3 as well as a fast HD like a SSD or Samsung Spinpoint f3. Alot of people end up getting slow hard drives with their otherwise awesome setup.
 
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builderbobftw

builderbobftw

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I rember a few years ago, (8 lol) Zeons had Very,Very, Very High prices, and Extreame clock speeds. (3.4ghz in 2003), but they also sounded like Jet planes and Needed big, noisy coolers to keep them cool, wich sounded like a helicopter taking off. Is it still like that, or have Xeons changed?
 
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skittle

skittle

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I would change just a few things in this build:



First I think you will be suprised at how powerful the i7 is! It will handle pretty much anything you throw at it with ease!

Second, Dump that crappy case. If your spending that much money you might as well buy a nice case instead of kicking your self later for buying a junky coolermaster (Yes, I have bought two CM cases before and I will not make the same mistake ever again). If your on a budget the antec p180 series (decent build quality, easy on the eyes, easy to work with, lost of room inside, and good cooling options) would be a good fit for you. Or if you feel like treating your self to something nice, pick a lian-li (think how sexy a solid, rolled aluminum looks compared to a junky spot welded steel/plastic case ;) )

Also although that power supply is excellent, your paying extra for the "OCZ" name. Corsair/Seasonic/Enermax are excellent alternatives that come without the extra $$$.

Also you probably wont need 12gb of ram, but the more the merrier I suppose.
 
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MadAdmiral

MadAdmiral

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CRAPPY!!! The HAF is easily the best case ever made. You really, really, really don't know what you're talking about there. I'm willing to bet it wasn't the HAF you bought before. The cheap CM cases have lower quality, but you can't get a better case than the HAF...

That said, the Antec p180 series is good, just much, much more expensive. And I absolutely HATE Lian Lis. They're super expensive and don't give you a whole lot.

Actually, OCZ is cheaper than most Corsairs, SeaSonics and others. In this case, you're paying more for the extremely high efficiency (it's over 90% efficient at 50% load). No other 850W has that.

And the OP WILL need 12 GB of RAM. Did you even read what he's doing with the build?
 
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skittle

skittle

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My friend owns the same case, so yes, i can attest that it has the same crappy quality as other CM's (ie cheap thin steel). Its not like they change their manufacturing process for ONE case you know ;) . And thats fine if you dont like the higher price of most of Lian-Li's (older models are actually competitively priced) however understand that they offer quality that no other manufacturer can match. Hand crafted cold rolled high-grade aluminum.

And wow, I didnt realize that the P180 series was so expensive these days! I guess if the market will pay they can keep the price high... They used to be around $120! I would stay away from the p150 and the SOLO as those two are a royal pain in the ass.

This is a midrange Lian-li that i have built with before, and it is VERY nice, especially for a measly $160
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112240

Yes The OCZ is efficient, but that 90% doesnt apply in the US, as we use 120V and the rating is for 240V. Also several manufacturers are up to that level of performance. New seasonics and Enermax PSUs have been there a long time. But like I said though, the OCZ is very good , and its manufactured by a OEM called "sirtec" that has a pretty good reputation. I cant find any reviews for the OCZ, do you know of any?

By the way, per the OP:
...6GB DDR3 memory either 1333mhz or higher...
Click to expand...
So yes, I did read ;)
Its just that $500 seems like a lot to spend on ram, especially when you can get 12gb for MUCH cheaper. Not sure why you picked just about the most expensive kit newegg has ...
 
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MadAdmiral

MadAdmiral

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The 90% rating is for 115V. Wiki it. The 80+ ratings apply 115V and 230V at different levels. The 230V is actually higher at 92%.

I've already been around on the sirtec OEM thing. That was 3 years ago (before OCZ bought PC Power & Cooling) and only for the low wattage Stealth and Game models. They also used FSP sometime after that (early 2008 I believe) for those same models. The Z Series is from a different OEM manufacturer (possibly always PC P&C, but I'm not for sure on that). As far as reveiws, you can find a bunch by googling them. Please do your research before contradicting good advice...

As far as the Lian LI, how can you call $160 measly? That's over twice the price of other extremely great PC case (Antec 300 Illusion) and 60% higher than others (Antec 900, HAF 922 which you are in the minority in your opinion, CM 690 II).

I picked the expensive kit because it is the ONLY CL 6 kit made. That means it is by far the fastest kit on the market. It is NOT the most expensive. Corsair 1600 mhz CL 8 or CL 7 sticks are actually much more expensive.
 
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skittle

skittle

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Its not the most expensive kit, but its close.
And dont you think its hypocritical of you to suggest spending $100+ more on RAM, and calling $50 or so on a MUCH higher quality case expensive? The OPs apps are not that IO intense!

Google "OCZZ850 review", there is a couple Taiwanese reviews, but thats it unless you are counting newegg?

Edit: By the way, I own the CM690. its collecting dust in my crawl space. I have seen ALOT of cases, but Lian-Li's are just so nice!
 
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coldsleep

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Alternatively, one could look at it as suggesting spending more on the parts that will, you know, actually provide a performance improvement.

Having more RAM will likely be helpful while doing big number crunching, in order to reduce reliance on disk I/O. It doesn't sound like the OP is running a database, which would rely on fast disk, while generally speaking, number crunching apps rely on keeping as much off the disk as possible, thus enjoy having more RAM.

12 GB might be overkill, sure. But if he's got the budget now, and nothing better to spend it on, it's probably worth doing.
 
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skittle

skittle

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Your right, 12gb would be great to have! But I would be very inclined to say they the improvement of CAS6 over CAS7-8 would be negligible, especially given the dramatic increase in price.

Its more what the OP values more, but given the price ceiling there is still room in his budget.
 
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MadAdmiral

MadAdmiral

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On the OCZ reviews, trying googling it with spaces. I know for a fact that there is at least one on JonnyGuru, but I hate those reviews because they factor in the price at the time of review. I found one that when they reviewed the unit it was $200, and got a 6/10 for that, but was selling for about $125 now, which is cheaper than any other one that size.

EDIT: Here's a couple from a quick search...

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=167
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2009/10/08/ocz_z_series_z850m_850w_power_supply_review
 
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