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Have laid out some options, need some advice please, TY

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February 26, 2010 8:42:43 AM

I would very much appreciate any and all advice, comments and suggestions on the below computer components I am thinking about.

I am looking for your advice, what kind of munchies are best when building the unit? Also about how long it would take a professional to put it all together. I will have someone else build it for me though (I'll buy him/her the munchies).

APPROXIMATE PURCHASE DATE: In two to four weeks
BUDGET RANGE: +- $2,500
1. Before Rebates
2. Without labor
3. Without Monitor - Will be buying; I think, the Dell UltraSharp U2711 27-inch Widescreen Flat Panel Monitor

SYSTEM USAGE FROM MOST TO LEAST: Games; COD's, Crisis/2 (never played yet but the guy at the shop showed me and it was great), FPS, some Photo Editing, lots of typing.

PARTS NOT REQUIRED: Mouse, Keyboard, Monitor

PREFERRED WEBSITE(S) FOR PARTS: USA - Newegg, Best Buy and that is all I actually know of... any suggestions?

PARTS PREFERENCES: by brand or type: Intel chips, and the below mentioned

OVERCLOCKING: Yes, but not to high: CPU-3.4?, Ram-slightly, that's all I know.

MONITOR RESOLUTION: the Dell UltraSharp U2711 27-inch Widescreen Flat Panel Monitor

ADDITIONAL COMMENTS: A quit PC would be fabulous as I sit next to it for hours playing and writing. I will be buying Windows 7 Ultimate, not sure why though. A quality monitor and good resolution is important to me. I do not own a TV but watch lots of movies on DVD and download movies from Netflix and Hulu.

On some of the components below, I looked up their benchmarks at: PassMark Software, then open Benchmarks.

Cases: This is difficult for me as I know nothing about compatibility and roominess. I read new models will be out late Feb or early March to fit the new cards. :sleep: 

Antec Nine Hundred Two Black Steel ATX Mid Tower
COOLER MASTER HAF 932 RC-932-KKN1-GP Black Steel ATX Full Tower
COOLER MASTER RC-690-KKN1-GP Black SECC/ ABS ATX Mid Tower But am looking for the second generation (II), may not be available yet.
COOLER MASTER HAF 922 RC-922M-KKN1-GP Black Steel + Plastic and Mesh Bezel ATX Mid Tower
LIAN LI Lancool PC-K62 Black 0.8 mm SECC, Plastic + Mesh ATX Mid Tower
Lian LI (PC-7FNW-B, PC-7-FNWB, PC-7F-NWB, PC-7FNWB) Not sure this is the Lian Li Lan Cool PC-A77F but couldn't find the article. :cry: 

CPU

Intel Core i7-920 Bloomfield 2.66GHz Everyone convinced me to buy 920 and overclock (a little) instead of the 960.
I am looking to see when the i7 930 is out and how that will be. I read maybe in a few weeks.

CPU Cooling - Don't really know to much here, just on what others have liked.

COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 Plus Intel Core i5 & Intel Core i7
And thats all I know about cooling. :fou: 

MOBO

ASUS P6X58D Premium LGA 1366 Intel X58 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX
That is the only mobo that was really popular and seemed to me was what I needed.

GPU - Video

I like the Sapphire better and it got better reviews. I am thinking about Crossfiring a lesser GPU like 5850??
SAPPHIRE 100281SR Radeon HD 5870 (Cypress XT) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16
XFX HD-587A-ZNF9 Radeon HD 5870 (Cypress XT) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16

RAM

What I found so interesting with Ram was like all the Corsairs were so close in specs., it was difficult to decide. The Cas Latencies varied only a bit, would that make that much difference? I don't know that much about timing and volts. :ouch: 
CORSAIR XMS3 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 Model TR3X6G1600C8 G
CORSAIR XMS3 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 Model CMX6GX3M3C1600C7
CORSAIR DOMINATOR 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 Model TR3X6G1600C8D
Mushkin Enhanced Redline 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 Model 998692 Lowest Cas Latency
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 Model F3-12800CL8T-6GBRM

SSD/HHD

Is SDD worth it." I've added $400 to my list for one but if that money could be used better elsewhere. There seems to be two classes of SSD; MLC - slower and SLC - faster. AND the second generations seem to be coming out.
Intel X25-M Mainstream SSDSA2M080G2R5 2.5" 80GB SATA II MLC
Intel X25-E Extreme SSDSA2SH032G1 2.5" 32GB SATA II SLC
Intel X25-V SSDSA2MP040G2R5 2.5" 40GB SATA II MLC

With HHD's, I really don't need more then 500GB at the very most, but I have read that 1T can actually run smoother and faster. I presently use up 130GB in my XPS and can't see me going over 200GB EVER. I was looking at the WD VelociRaptor WD3000GLFSRTL 300GB 10000 RPM 16MB Cache, but I can't see the $240 being worth it.
Western Digital Caviar Black WD1001FALS 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb
Western Digital Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb
SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb
SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD502HJ 500GB 16MB Cache 7200RPM (couldn't find the link). :( 

PSU

Here the reviews are so good for the Corsairs, that's what I will most likely get, just not sure about if "Module" is worth $40? The TX has extended cables though. Is the Module worth $40?
CORSAIR CMPSU-850HX 850W ATX12V 2.3 / EPS12V 2.91 80 PLUS SILVER Certified Modular
CORSAIR CMPSU-850TX 850W ATX12V 2.2 / EPS12V 2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready
XFX Black Edition XPS-850W-BES 850W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS SILVER Certified Modular

Blue - Ray Don't know that much so am just going on ratings here. Will look into BR a bit more later. I don't want to burn BR but I will most likely want to burn CD's.

ASUS 8X BD-ROM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-ROM SATA Model BC-08B1ST
PLEXTOR Black 8X BD-ROM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-ROM SATA Model PX-B320SA LightScribe Support

That is about it, I am not buying a sound care yet as the threads said not to and wait. TY

Thank you all again for your in site and thank you Tommy for your site.

If anyone is in Southern CA and would like to build the system, let me know.

WineByMe

More about : laid options advice

February 26, 2010 2:59:09 PM

WineByMe said:
I will be buying Windows 7 Ultimate, not sure why though.

From both your uses and the fact that you don't know what you will be using that only Ultimate has, I'd say you'd be perfectly fine with Home Premium, the only reason to get anything above it (if you don't need a feature that Pro or Ultimate has) is if you can get them for cheap.

On some of the components below, I looked up their benchmarks at: PassMark Software, then open Benchmarks.

Artificial benchmarks aren't as good as actual usage benchmarks.

GPU - Video

I like the Sapphire better and it got better reviews. I am thinking about Crossfiring a lesser GPU like 5850??
SAPPHIRE 100281SR Radeon HD 5870 (Cypress XT) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16
XFX HD-587A-ZNF9 Radeon HD 5870 (Cypress XT) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16

If you can afford two 5850s then you should be able to afford a 5970. Which might be better at your resolution. The HAF 922 would be a safe bet in fitting this card.

RAM

What I found so interesting with Ram was like all the Corsairs were so close in specs., it was difficult to decide. The Cas Latencies varied only a bit, would that make that much difference? I don't know that much about timing and volts. :ouch: 
CORSAIR XMS3 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 Model TR3X6G1600C8 G
CORSAIR XMS3 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 Model CMX6GX3M3C1600C7
CORSAIR DOMINATOR 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 Model TR3X6G1600C8D
Mushkin Enhanced Redline 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 Model 998692 Lowest Cas Latency
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 Model F3-12800CL8T-6GBRM

Personally I would get the CMX6GX3M3C1600C7

SSD/HHD

Is SDD worth it." I've added $400 to my list for one but if that money could be used better elsewhere. There seems to be two classes of SSD; MLC - slower and SLC - faster. AND the second generations seem to be coming out.
Intel X25-M Mainstream SSDSA2M080G2R5 2.5" 80GB SATA II MLC
Intel X25-E Extreme SSDSA2SH032G1 2.5" 32GB SATA II SLC
Intel X25-V SSDSA2MP040G2R5 2.5" 40GB SATA II MLC

Out of those I think the best one when you take into account price, capacity & performance is the X25-M 80GB. Seeing as you have the budget for one, then why not? However you should know that by the end of this year they will have more capacity, performance and cost less, and probably be more reliable.

With HHD's, I really don't need more then 500GB at the very most, but I have read that 1T can actually run smoother and faster. I presently use up 130GB in my XPS and can't see me going over 200GB EVER. I was looking at the WD VelociRaptor WD3000GLFSRTL 300GB 10000 RPM 16MB Cache, but I can't see the $240 being worth it.
Western Digital Caviar Black WD1001FALS 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb
Western Digital Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb
SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb
SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD502HJ 500GB 16MB Cache 7200RPM (couldn't find the link). :( 

I suppose a velociraptor might be worth it if you don't get an SSD. Altho plenty of 7200rpm drives outperform raptors. Any of those 7200s will be fine, it really doesn't matter which, especiallf if it is primarily a data drive.

PSU

Here the reviews are so good for the Corsairs, that's what I will most likely get, just not sure about if "Module" is worth $40? The TX has extended cables though. Is the Module worth $40?
CORSAIR CMPSU-850HX 850W ATX12V 2.3 / EPS12V 2.91 80 PLUS SILVER Certified Modular
CORSAIR CMPSU-850TX 850W ATX12V 2.2 / EPS12V 2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready
XFX Black Edition XPS-850W-BES 850W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS SILVER Certified Modular

The modularity might not be worth $40, but the higher efficiency is. If you aren't squeezing your budget then I totally think the 850HX is worth it.

Blue - Ray Don't know that much so am just going on ratings here. Will look into BR a bit more later. I don't want to burn BR but I will most likely want to burn CD's.

ASUS 8X BD-ROM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-ROM SATA Model BC-08B1ST
PLEXTOR Black 8X BD-ROM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-ROM SATA Model PX-B320SA LightScribe Support

Last time I said this I got into trouble, have you considered getting a Blu-Ray Reader and a separate DVD optical drive that can burn CDs and DVDs, I believe that if you pick the right products you can get it for cheaper than a Blu-Ray drive that can burn CDs and DVDs.

I didn't eat when I built mine, so I don't know what's good to eat.

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February 26, 2010 4:10:45 PM

First, why do you wish to spend $2500 on a gaming rig when $1600 will provide an excellent system? Are you willing to spend the extra $1000 for bragging rights or a slight improvement - 5% at most - in gaming speed?

Here is an excellent model system:

Intel Core i7-860 Lynnfield 2.8GHz 8MB L3 Cache LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core Processor – Retail - $280 with free shipping
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

XFX HD-585X-ZAFC Radeon HD 5850 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card w/ Eyefinity - Retail - $310 + $8 shipping
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...


GIGABYTE GA-P55A-UD4P LGA 1156 Intel P55 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard w/ USB 3.0 & SATA 6 Gb/s – Retail - $185 + $8 shipping
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL7D-4GBRM - Retail - $115 with free shipping
Timings: 7-8-7-24-2N
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...


COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 Plus Intel Core i5 & Intel Core i7 compatible RR-B10-212P-G1 120mm "heatpipe direct contact" Long life sleeve CPU Cooler – Retail - $35 + $8 shipping
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

COOLER MASTER HAF 932 RC-932-KKN1-GP Black Steel ATX Full Tower Computer Case – Retail - $160 + $25 shipping
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

CORSAIR CMPSU-850TX 850W ATX12V 2.2 / EPS12V 2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready Active PFC Power Supply – Retail - $130 with free shipping
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...


Western Digital Caviar Black WD1001FALS 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive - $99 with free shipping
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

LITE-ON Black 4X BD-ROM 8X DVD-ROM 32X CD-ROM SATA Internal 4X Blu-ray Disc Reader Model iHOS104-08 - Retail - $70 + $8 shipping
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

PLEXTOR Black 22X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 8X DVD+R DL 22X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 12X DVD-RAM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2MB Cache IDE 22X DVD/CD Writer LightScribe Support – Retail - $30 with free shipping
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 1-Pack for System Builders - OEM - $105 with free shipping
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...


Total Costs:
Hardware………………..$1,414
Shipping……………………..57
Windows 7…………………105

TOTAL COST…………$1,576

I think the i7-860 processor will provide more horsepower than you will use and still has hyperthereading to help when more games use it in the future.

I suggest waiting, if possible, for the FERMI cards to launch this month before buying a new graphics card - to see what power and options they offer as well as how they affect prices. Otherwise the 5850 should provide the graphics power you need now and leave a mobo slot open to Crossover later with another card if you need more power in the future. While I don't think it is necessary, off course you could upgrade this to the 5870 if you choose.
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February 26, 2010 5:33:52 PM

Thank you for the options. Don't need bragging rights, to old for that stuff. But had the money to spend so figured that is what I wanted. I think I gave to many options too. :( 

Will take your advice and maybe go on vacation. :) 

Thanks again
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February 26, 2010 6:16:23 PM

The only problem I have with rockyjohn's build is that it's not an excellent gaming system. That build will struggle with some current games at maximum details at 1900x resolutions. In addition, the LGA1156 socket is currently a bad choice for future proofing, but that doesn't matter as much.

BTW, VelociRaptors are NOT worth it. The 500 GB platter drives are just as fast and much, much cheaper. SSDs are an order of magnitude faster than VRs for slightly more.

Here's a better gaming build:

CPU: i7-920 $289
Mobo: Asus P6X58D Premium $310
RAM: G.Skill Pi Series 3x2 GB 1600 mhz CAS Latency 7 $180
HDD: Samsung Spinpoint F3 1 TB $90
GPU: HD 5970 $650
PSU: Corsair 850W $130 after rebate
Case: HAF 922 $90 after rebate
HSF/Optical: Coolermaster Hyper 212 Plus and cheap SATA DVD burner $45
OS: Windows 7 Home $105

Total: $1,889.

Or to save more, make the following changes:

CPU: i5-750 $195
Mobo: Asus P7P55D-E Pro $190
RAM: G.Skill Ripjaws 2x2 GB 1600 mhz CAS Latency 7 $115
OS: Windows 7 Home $105

Total: $1,610.

However, both of those will pale in comparision to the best computer money can buy right now:

CPU: i7-920 $289
Mobo: Asus P6X58D Premium $310
HSF/Optical: Coolermaster Hyper 212 Plus and cheap SATA DVD burner $45
RAM: Mushkin Enahnced Redline 3x2 GB 1600 mhz CAS Latency 6 $250
GPU: HD 5970 $650
HDD: Samsung Spinpoint F3 1 TB $90
SSD: 128 GB $355
Case: HAF 922 $90 after rebate
PSU: OCZ Z Series 850W 80+ Gold $200
OS: Windows 7 Home $105

Total: $2,354.
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February 26, 2010 6:48:37 PM

Thank you very much MadAdmiral. I have read a lot of your posts and you do give out a lot of great info.

I'm not going to move down to the x55 board or i5 chips. I would like to stay up above that as what I have read, it is better for the future.

You think that the HD 5970 is worth it? As I'm not giving my address away. I have about $3,000 sitting here waiting to be spent... no kids, no ex's, no morgage, no car payment, just rent, drink and fun so... Plus this PC will last me 6 years, if I scrimp now, I suffer later.

I will wait for the Fermi to come out and it would seem that on the cases, a lot of 2nd gens are coming out soon. You're right in the second gen on SSD's

So on power supply, you like non-modules better?

Thank you very much again for your time. Have a great weekend.

Of course I will have to find someone to put it all together for me. I know, everyone says it is so easy, but.... :( 
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February 26, 2010 7:00:30 PM

Yes the HD 5970 is worth it. This is a card that is highly likely to never need to be upgraded or replaced during the life of the rest of the build. It will not become obsolete because of becoming too weak, but rather because technology has advanced past it (i.e. new DirectX versions).

I do like non-modular better because they're cheaper, and you're not paying for the same feature twice (once for a bottom mounted case, once for modular units).

It really is very easy to put together. There is no way to build it wrong. Every part will only fit in one spot, and it's very easy to tell if its the right one.
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February 26, 2010 7:06:35 PM



Thank you very much Silvune, some great advice. I do like the idea of splitting the BR and DVD's and will most likely do that. DVD's are really inexpensive now.

I can't figure out why the PSU HX is more efficient then the TX? is the 2.3 compared to the 2.2? And I don't even know what that means. :( 

I think I will pass on the Raptors and go with a SSD and most likely the Samsung F3 500GB HHD.

Thank you again, have a great day.

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February 26, 2010 7:13:29 PM

MadAdmiral said:
Yes the HD 5970 is worth it. This is a card that is highly likely to never need to be upgraded or replaced during the life of the rest of the build. It will not become obsolete because of becoming too weak, but rather because technology has advanced past it (i.e. new DirectX versions).

I do like non-modular better because they're cheaper, and you're not paying for the same feature twice (once for a bottom mounted case, once for modular units).

It really is very easy to put together. There is no way to build it wrong. Every part will only fit in one spot, and it's very easy to tell if its the right one.


Ya, just seems scary to me, maybe what I will do is find someone who knows alot, like a high school geek and have him assist me and just pay him for his time.

Thank you again MadAdmiral.
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February 26, 2010 8:38:31 PM

WineByMe said:
I can't figure out why the PSU HX is more efficient then the TX?

It is because the HX is 80 Plus Silver certified. This means that it has been tested and shown to have efficiency above 85% at certain loads. This means that your power supply has to take less power from the mains to give power to your system and the components. The end result is less of an energy bill. Wikipedia will do a better explanation of 80 Plus. And they're website has a full list of PSUs that have the various certifications.
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February 26, 2010 8:42:29 PM

Silvune said:
It is because the HX is 80 Plus Silver certified. This means that it has been tested and shown to have efficiency above 85% at certain loads. This means that your power supply has to take less power from the mains to give power to your system and the components. The end result is less of an energy bill. Wikipedia will do a better explanation of 80 Plus. And they're website has a full list of PSUs that have the various certifications.



Thank you very much for the info. :) 
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February 26, 2010 8:42:54 PM

WineByMe said:
I can't figure out why the PSU HX is more efficient then the TX?

The HX and TX series are completely different power supplies that use different internal components. The HX uses components that allow it to use power more efficiently.

That's like saying you can't figure out why your Camero has more horsepower than your Cobolt. Just because they're made by the same company doesn't mean they use the same parts. You're comparing apples to oranges.
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February 26, 2010 8:55:20 PM

But if you have never driven or even seen a Camero or a Colbolt and no nothing about cars, then... :) 
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February 26, 2010 9:06:30 PM

I know it was a dumb example. :) 

I was just trying to come up with a good analogy. I guess that didn't work out very well. :) 

I guess what I was trying to say is that just because it has a sticker that says Corsair on it doesn't mean that it uses the same components inside. Corsair PSU's are made by at least two completely different companies. Corsair doesn't make any of their own PSU's. Sometimes units from the same family (HX, TX, CX, etc...) aren't even made by the same company. For example, the 750TX is made by CWT while the 650TX is made by Seasonic. None of that really matters, though since they're both high quality units. My point is they aren't really even similar inside.
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February 26, 2010 11:57:37 PM

Case / PSU - Mostly an aesthetic choice on the case so opinions and testes will vary. Yes, real nice stuff coming out in 2 weeks....but if ya gotta go now:

Antec 1200 / Antec CP-850 - provides an unmatched price / performance ratio....HAF 932 / Corsair HX850 is a good alternate but at $96 more. Csses are eveny matched, each having some pluses and minuses ... CP and HC are equals electonically but CP has an acoustical advantage (quieter).

Antec 1200 / CP-850 $244
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite...

HAF 932 / Corsair HX850 $340-$360 ($160 red LED's or $180 blue LED's + $180)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

MoBo - Fine consensus choice .... Rampage III Extreme I expect will hit in late March

CPU - 930 is supposed to hit before Monday.

RAM - Buy the lowest price DDR3-1600 at the lowest timings you can afford:
CAS 6 - Mushkin 998962's w/ Ascent Coolers $265
CAS 7 - Corsair or Mushkin whose lowest depends on day

SSD - Vertex2's will shake things up when they drop next month and topple the Intel G2 from the "Performance King" position.

Hard Drives - Check out the performance charts and pick whatever 500 GB per platter drive performs best under your usage patterns. The WD Black 2 TB is a good choice but at smaller capacities, you are limited to the Seagate 7200.12 or the Spinpoint F3. The 7200.12 excels in gaming, multimedia and pictures whereas the F3 wins at music and movie maker. See the comparisons here (copy past link in manually, link won't work in forum):

(http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/2009-3.5-desktop-har...[2371]=on&prod[2770]=on)

DVD - Echo your Plextor 320 SA choice

GFX Card - Tough one for me as I won't pay over MSRP. With the 5970's at as much as $100 over list price, I just can't go there. If I was going to build a system today, I'd try and grab an old 250 GTS or something to hold me over till the market chills out a bit in May or June.

HS & Fans - I am really happy with the ease of installation and performance of the Prolimatech.

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/8807/cpu-pro-01/Proli...
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/7038/thr-41/Innovatio...
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/10026/fan-639/Scythe_...
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/8418/cab-150/FrozenCP...

If that's a budget breaker, look at the Xigmnatec S1283 or one of the others here:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/Recommended_Heatsinks
http://www.frostytech.com/top5heatsinks.cfm#INTELHEATSI...
http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_conten...

pick a TIM from the top few here:
http://www.hwreviewlabs.com/index.php?option=com_conten...
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/coolers/display/therma...
http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_conten...

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February 27, 2010 12:19:25 AM

WineByMe said:
I can't figure out why the PSU HX is more efficient then the TX?


Efficiency really the big deal here, it's the quality of the PSU. The difference in energy savings might amount to less than $5 per year. The HX series is Corsair's top of the line....the TX is one tier down. The HX competes with the Antec SG and CP series for example and the TX competes with the Antec TP and EA series.

Quality is primarily associated with stable voltages. When your video card(s) start sucking out tons of power, it's the PSU's job to continue to supply stable voltages. The standard if I recall correctly requires no more than 5 % variation. A value of 2% is what is considered "great"....overclocking enthusiasts want 1% or better. Noise (electrical and acoustic), Ripple, are other characteristics given close scrutiny is PSU reviews. To read about the TX versus HX look at these:

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=...
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=...


For comparison purposes , the list below contains performance ratings (10 scale) at jonnyguru.com / prices as per newegg on 02/21/2010 and ones w/ double asterisks (**) made it onto silentpcreview.com's Editor's Choice List meaning they excelled at both electronic and acoustic performance:

Antec SG-850 - 10.0 ($220) **
Antec CP-850 - 10.0 ($110) ** (only fits in Antec P183, P193 and 1200 cases)
XFX 850W Black Edition 10.0 ($185)
Corsair HX850 850W - 10.0 ($180)

Antec TruePower Quattro (TPQ-850) - 9.5 ($150)
Corsair TX850 - 9.5 ($140)
Seasonic M12D 850W - 9.5 (NLA) **
NorthQ Giant Connector 850W - 9.5 (NFS)
Etasis ET850 - 9.5 (NLA)
Silverstone Zeus ST85ZF - 9.5 (NLA)

Enermax Revolution 85+ 850W - 9.0 ($250)

Thrmaltake Toughpower XT 850W - 8.5 ($216)
OCZ Z Series 850W - 8.5 ($200)

NorthQ Black Magic Flex 850W - 8.0 (NFS)
Coolmax CTG-850 - 8.0 (NFS)

SilverStone Decathlon DA850 - 7.5 ($230)
Enermax Galaxy DXX 850W EGX850EWL - 7.5 (NFS)

SilverStone Strider ST85F - 7.0

Silverstone Element ST85EF 850W - 6.0


NFS - Not For Sale / NLA = No Longer Available

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February 27, 2010 12:26:09 AM

shortstuff_mt said:
The HX and TX series are completely different power supplies that use different internal components. The HX uses components that allow it to use power more efficiently.

That's like saying you can't figure out why your Camero has more horsepower than your Cobolt. Just because they're made by the same company doesn't mean they use the same parts. You're comparing apples to oranges.


Both the HX and TX i850 are made by Channel Well Technology Company but different platforms.
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February 27, 2010 1:54:59 AM

@JackNaylor: For the second time, if you're going to quote review scores, make sure they're accurate. Pretty much every score you posted are 1-2 points higher than the actual review on the high end and up to 1 lower on the low end reviews.

Also, I hate quoting JonnyGuru reviews, as a major factor is the "value", which is determined by the price at the time of the review. The biggest one is the Silverstone ST85F which scored a 5 or 6 on value, but has since dropped $50 in price, making it the cheapest listed, as well as one of the most efficient.

A note on comparing case and PSU prices: A fair comparision isn't the Antec 1200 and HAF 932. It's the HAF 922 and Antec 1200, as the 922 is slightly larger than the Antec 1200, and the 932 is massively bigger. So the price difference is actually only $30, but it's $100 cheaper to get the HAF 922/Corsair 850TX than the 1200/CP-850. The fact that the TX is not modular doesn't matter because the HAF is bottom mounted.

And for harping on efficiency so much, it should be noted that the CP-850 is only 80+ Certified, which is very low for a quality 850W unit...
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February 27, 2010 4:15:09 AM

shortstuff_mt said:
I know it was a dumb example. :) 

I was just trying to come up with a good analogy. I guess that didn't work out very well. :) 

I guess what I was trying to say is that just because it has a sticker that says Corsair on it doesn't mean that it uses the same components inside. Corsair PSU's are made by at least two completely different companies. Corsair doesn't make any of their own PSU's. Sometimes units from the same family (HX, TX, CX, etc...) aren't even made by the same company. For example, the 750TX is made by CWT while the 650TX is made by Seasonic. None of that really matters, though since they're both high quality units. My point is they aren't really even similar inside.



Now that made sense. :) 

Didn't now that about Corsair but really doesn't change my mind, but thank you.

I did hear from a local computer store that NewEgg sells referbished parts as new ones. Hear anything on that? He said that is one way they can sell so cheap.

I will most likely have them put my computer together for me... I know... I know... :pfff:  They told me it would only take an hour without the OS and about two hours with it, so that isn't to bad. I will be right their watching them too. :) 
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February 27, 2010 4:43:22 AM

JackNaylorPE said:
Case / PSU - Mostly an aesthetic choice on the case so opinions and testes will vary. Yes, real nice stuff coming out in 2 weeks....but if ya gotta go now:

Antec 1200 / Antec CP-850 - provides an unmatched price / performance ratio....HAF 932 / Corsair HX850 is a good alternate but at $96 more. Csses are eveny matched, each having some pluses and minuses ... CP and HC are equals electonically but CP has an acoustical advantage (quieter).

Antec 1200 / CP-850 $244
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite...

HAF 932 / Corsair HX850 $340-$360 ($160 red LED's or $180 blue LED's + $180)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

MoBo - Fine consensus choice .... Rampage III Extreme I expect will hit in late March

CPU - 930 is supposed to hit before Monday.

RAM - Buy the lowest price DDR3-1600 at the lowest timings you can afford:
CAS 6 - Mushkin 998962's w/ Ascent Coolers $265
CAS 7 - Corsair or Mushkin whose lowest depends on day

SSD - Vertex2's will shake things up when they drop next month and topple the Intel G2 from the "Performance King" position.

Hard Drives - Check out the performance charts and pick whatever 500 GB per platter drive performs best under your usage patterns. The WD Black 2 TB is a good choice but at smaller capacities, you are limited to the Seagate 7200.12 or the Spinpoint F3. The 7200.12 excels in gaming, multimedia and pictures whereas the F3 wins at music and movie maker. See the comparisons here (copy past link in manually, link won't work in forum):

(http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/2009-3.5-desktop-har...[2371]=on&prod[2770]=on)

DVD - Echo your Plextor 320 SA choice

GFX Card - Tough one for me as I won't pay over MSRP. With the 5970's at as much as $100 over list price, I just can't go there. If I was going to build a system today, I'd try and grab an old 250 GTS or something to hold me over till the market chills out a bit in May or June.

HS & Fans - I am really happy with the ease of installation and performance of the Prolimatech.

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/8807/cpu-pro-01/Proli...
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/7038/thr-41/Innovatio...
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/10026/fan-639/Scythe_...
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/8418/cab-150/FrozenCP...

If that's a budget breaker, look at the Xigmnatec S1283 or one of the others here:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/Recommended_Heatsinks
http://www.frostytech.com/top5heatsinks.cfm#INTELHEATSI...
http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_conten...

pick a TIM from the top few here:
http://www.hwreviewlabs.com/index.php?option=com_conten...
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/coolers/display/therma...
http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_conten...


thank you for the info, some things there that I haven't thought of. :) 
I think I will wait a month to the end of March to see what comes out, especially the 930 and new SSD cards.

Thank you again for your info and time. :) 
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February 27, 2010 6:14:25 PM

I ask again, how much additional game performance are you buying for the $1000 higher price. I submit you will get less than 5% more for the 67% increase in price. If you are not happy with the performance of the system I specified - you could get about 3% of the 5% for just a few hundred more for a faster video card - the rest of the system will support optimal gaming.

Off course, you are entitled to get whatever system you like. Just be aware of how little you get for that last $1000.

And anyone who claims that "LGA1156 socket is currently a bad choice for future proofing" clearly has no understanding of Intel's mobo strategy. The 1156 is just as future proof as the 1366. Intel has plans to extend and expand both. To call the 1156 bad for future proofing is a lame attempt to persuade with bogus information.
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February 28, 2010 12:57:34 AM

5%? Are you serious? You would get nearly DOUBLE the performance out of just getting the 5970. That's before you overclock it. Not to mention performance boosts from the X58 chipset (that's only a little though), having some more RAM (also slight), and a number of other changes.

As for the LGA1156 socket, it is bad for future proofing. It won't see six core CPUs, while the LGA1366 will. The "expansion" planned for the 1156 is to introduce more low end CPUs for it in order to make it a mainstream socket. The plan for the 1366 socket is to be the high end chipset for the near future. Granted, in a year or two, the newer CPUs will move to a new socket, so Intel isn't exactly a good choice for future proofing right now any way. However, the best performing socket RIGHT NOW is the LGA1366. To say ANYTHING different is to provide bogus info.
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February 28, 2010 1:31:16 AM

Now boys, lets keep the friendship going... :) 

Thank you both for the info. What I will most likely do is go with MadAdmiral's specs but look into how I can save some money through different quality parts.

Thank you again for the assistance. But a question for both of you. The local computer store said that NewEgg sells refurbished parts as new? Any thing in the grapeline about that. Thank you.

:) 
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February 28, 2010 1:37:48 AM

I'm willing to bet the local store is lying to you. Refurbished units on Newegg are clearly marked as recertified. You can also buy items without any extras by getting "open box" items, but don't expect to get anything expect the part.

Really, Newegg is pretty much the standard in computer components. There are others that are good, but no body has better selection or consistently better prices.
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February 28, 2010 1:44:21 AM

Thank you very much MadAdmiral, I didn't think you could sell refurbished as new but you never know.

I am not 100% sure on the 5980, but everything else will be a go. I am waiting to see if a 930 chip comes out in a week or so and maybe wait for the fermi chip, I think I have that right.

Thanks again for all your assistance.
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February 28, 2010 1:46:18 AM

OOPs. HD 5970... not 5980. :( 
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March 1, 2010 1:44:59 AM

MadAdmiral said:
@JackNaylor: For the second time, if you're going to quote review scores, make sure they're accurate. Pretty much every score you posted are 1-2 points higher than the actual review on the high end and up to 1 lower on the low end reviews.


Show me, if I made a mistake I will correct it .... but before you do, read again but more closely and take note that I am quoting Performance Rating not Overall Rating. Have no interest in overall ratings as functionality and aesthetics depend where your putting it and price changes.

Quote:
A note on comparing case and PSU prices: A fair comparision isn't the Antec 1200 and HAF 932. It's the HAF 922 and Antec 1200, as the 922 is slightly larger than the Antec 1200, and the 932 is massively bigger.


Well you'll have to discuss that with the folks who write the ATX specification as all my sources list the 932 and 1200 as ATX Full Tower and the 922 as a midtower.

THG didn't think so

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/full-tower-case,210...

And their analysis shows that they perform almost identically, swapping performance crowns in temperature and acoustics...

Acoustically, 932 won at idle, 1200 under load.
Thermally, 1200 had lower case temp, 932 lower GPU / CPU temps

Note that 1200 didn't have the two optional fans installed, 932 had no empty fan mounts.

Neither does newegg

922 - Type ATX Mid Tower
932 - Type ATX Full Tower
1200 - Type ATX Full Tower

Quote:
And for harping on efficiency so much, it should be noted that the CP-850 is only 80+ Certified, which is very low for a quality 850W unit...


If you have reviewed my posts, I'm the guy often calling efficiency a red herring. Efficiency is not a bad thing, but it doesn't have the effect that most people think. I do point out that people often misinterpret the ratings thinking that the quoted efficiency is at full load when it's most often at half load. All things being equal, which they rarely are, I will give the nod to the more efficient of the choices. But when they are not equal, personally, I'll take performance over efficiency every time.
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March 1, 2010 2:06:36 AM

WineByMe said:
thank you for the info, some things there that I haven't thought of. :) 
I think I will wait a month to the end of March to see what comes out, especially the 930 and new SSD cards.

Thank you again for your info and time. :) 


930 is on newegg for $299
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March 1, 2010 3:42:20 AM

Thank you JackNaylorPE for the info. And thank you for letting me know about the 930.

It is interesting all the different views out there. And all the different kinds of performance reviews, I knew I should have taken that computer class... wait... they had no computer classes when I went to school. :ouch: 

As far as picking a Case, I will just have to figure out what is important to me, even though the only thing important to me is getting quality high performance parts and making sure they all work together. That is the dilemma for me. Making sure everything fits with the right fans, coolers, cords, etc.

But thank you again for all the assistance.
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March 5, 2010 5:08:27 AM

Thank you very much and will look at those soon.

:) 
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!