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Amd build need a hand

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Last response: in Systems
February 26, 2010 6:46:08 PM

Computer will be used for gaming and learning to over clock. I will do crossfire later on. Everything is going into a 932 HAF im painting it black and green. This will only be my 2nd build first build still being shiped so im a noob.

1) Whats some good ram for this build that will work well with the MB. i guess at 1600?
2) Is that a good hard drive other people have told me to use it, whats so good about it?
3) I need a good cpu cooler i was thinking the cooler master hyper 212 i want to put green fans on it.
4) I heard alot of people same the sound card with the crosshair 3 MB sucks. is this true?
5) I have not found much about the XFX psu is it good? i picked cause the combo deal.

AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition Deneb 3.4GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

ASUS Crosshair III Formula AM3 AMD 790FX ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 1-Pack for System Builders - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite...

XFX HD-585A-ZNBC Radeon HD 5850 (Cypress Pro) 1GB Black Edition 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported ... - Retail
XFX P1-750B-CAG9 750W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS SILVER Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite...

SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

ASUS VW246H Glossy Black 24" 2ms(GTG) HDMI Widescreen LCD Monitor 300 cd/m2 ASCR 20000:1 (1000:1) Built-in Speakers - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

More about : amd build hand

February 26, 2010 6:55:42 PM

What are you doing with the build? What about a budget? Chances are we can give you a much better build than this for the same or less...

1.) CL 7 1600 mhz Ripjaws $115

2.) It uses 500 GB platters. The larger platters (the discs the data are stored on) mean the data is stored more densely, allowing the drive to read/write it faster. In addition, the larger platters mean you need fewer of them. Fewer platters mean fewer heads, which means they run cooler and quieter. It's also possible that the fewer moving parts decreases the chance of failure, but that's not proven.

3.) Just paint the fins. You're not going to find a green HSF anywhere...

4.) No idea. But that's not a good buy. Get the much cheaper, much more future proof Gigabyte GA-790XTA-UD4.

5.) XFX is new to making PSUs. I'm weary of them, but a review has been good. I'd stick to the cheaper Corsairs, Antecs, Seasonics and Silverstones. There are a lot of good combos with the HD 5850 and 5870 w/ PSUs (like this one or this one).

Some other notes. First, the X4 965 is basically just a factor overclocked X4 955. Save yourself the few bucks and get the cheaper one. Second, if you're using this for gaming, I HIGHLY recommend fitting in the HD 5870. Drop the CPU all the way down to a X3 425 if you have to (in a combo with the board I mentioned for $197).
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February 26, 2010 7:32:39 PM

MadAdmiral said:
What are you doing with the build? What about a budget? Chances are we can give you a much better build than this for the same or less...

1.) CL 7 1600 mhz Ripjaws $115

2.) It uses 500 GB platters. The larger platters (the discs the data are stored on) mean the data is stored more densely, allowing the drive to read/write it faster. In addition, the larger platters mean you need fewer of them. Fewer platters mean fewer heads, which means they run cooler and quieter. It's also possible that the fewer moving parts decreases the chance of failure, but that's not proven.

3.) Just paint the fins. You're not going to find a green HSF anywhere...

4.) No idea. But that's not a good buy. Get the much cheaper, much more future proof Gigabyte GA-790XTA-UD4.

5.) XFX is new to making PSUs. I'm weary of them, but a review has been good. I'd stick to the cheaper Corsairs, Antecs, Seasonics and Silverstones. There are a lot of good combos with the HD 5850 and 5870 w/ PSUs (like this one or this one).

Some other notes. First, the X4 965 is basically just a factor overclocked X4 955. Save yourself the few bucks and get the cheaper one. Second, if you're using this for gaming, I HIGHLY recommend fitting in the HD 5870. Drop the CPU all the way down to a X3 425 if you have to (in a combo with the board I mentioned for $197).


Why is that MB better sorry just really been stuck on getting the crosshair 3.
Also is the 5870 really that much better then the 5850 to pay 70$ more for it?
So i can do just as good with the 955 as the 965 the price is only like 15$ more
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February 26, 2010 7:35:31 PM

It's cheaper for one. Second, it has USB 3/SATA III support. So when the new external and internal devices get a full speed upgrade, you can use it. It's supposed to be like 10x faster.

The difference between the two is that the 5870 can play every game at max details at full HD resolutions. The 5850 struggles with a few of them. Once DirectX 11 comes into full use and games require more GPU power, the 5850 will quickly fall behind.

Yes. If you got the 955, you could very easily do a mild overclock on the stock cooler and essentially have a 965 for less.
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February 26, 2010 9:00:54 PM

The first one is the newer C3 stepping of the Phenom II X4 955.
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February 26, 2010 9:15:33 PM

tecmo34 said:
The first one is the newer C3 stepping of the Phenom II X4 955.


so its better?
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February 26, 2010 9:19:21 PM

ok i been looking into this 5870 like you say i should get and whats with all the bad talk about the gray screen crap i dont want to buy a problem
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February 26, 2010 9:19:23 PM

daman said:
so its better?

Yup. Newer steppings are nearly always better. They make optimizations to either fix problems or make them run better with lower voltages, etc...
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February 26, 2010 9:42:40 PM

daman said:
ok i been looking into this 5870 like you say i should get and whats with all the bad talk about the gray screen crap i dont want to buy a problem


This was fixed through a driver update a week or two ago.
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February 26, 2010 9:51:07 PM

MadAdmiral said:
This was fixed through a driver update a week or two ago.


ok and whats the difference in the cypress cards i would like to get a xfx for the life time warranty
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February 26, 2010 10:16:22 PM

I don't agree with MadAdmiral on the X3. Stick with the 965 BE 125W, or drop down to the 955BE which is currently at a pretty good price. tecmo34 correctly pointed out the difference between the two 955s. As for the 5850, it's not too far behind the 5870. It is shorter and overclocking it will help. Personally I'm looking at the 5850 Toxic edition. Then again I'm looking at a 5850 because a 5870 wouldn't fit in my case ^_^
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February 26, 2010 10:40:08 PM

Quote:
The difference between the two is that the 5870 can play every game at max details at full HD resolutions. The 5850 struggles with a few of them. Once DirectX 11 comes into full use and games require more GPU power, the 5850 will quickly fall behind.





the difference is not that big, if you OC the 5850 to 5870 frequencies, they'll penform very, very close

it also depends on what res you're at, 1920*1200 and higher the 5870 is a better option, 1080p or lower, the 5850 is better, look at the benchmarks and you'll see that the 5850 scales better at lower resolutions.

the difference between an OC 5850 and a 5870@ 1680*1050 is almost none, so if you have 1920*1080 or lower, get 5850, if 1920*1200 or higher AND it can fit your case, go for 5870
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February 26, 2010 11:44:01 PM

It's not hard to get the 5870 to fit in a case. It's not super long. I believe it measures in at about 10.75". I know it can fit in an Antec 300.

As for comparing an OCed 5850 to a 5870, you would certainly get better performance once you push the card. However, you can also OC the 5870, likely to a much higher level than the 5850. So the point doesn't matter. You need to compare apples to apples, so either compare them at stock (which all benchmarks do), or compare OCed to OCed. Either way, the 5870 is a lot better.

@megaman: You can disagree with the X3 all you want, but gaming doesn't require a massive CPU. It requires as powerful a GPU as you can get. So it makes sense to sacrifice a high end CPU for a much cheaper one if it means you can get a bigger GPU. You need to improve the build's bottleneck if you want more performance.

As for spending more for a "Toxic" edition, that's retarded. You give them more money to overclock the card in the factory. You can do that yourself with 3 clicks of the mouse (literally) with ATI's Overdrive software. To have them do that, they want $50. You might as well pay another $50 on top of that to get a better GPU.
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February 27, 2010 1:34:47 AM

well the monitor i chose up there does 1920x1080. is that a good monitor?
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February 27, 2010 3:14:12 AM

I'm still really stuck on the GA-790FXTA-UD5 vs Crosshair III Formula
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February 27, 2010 3:22:57 AM

ASUS board would be your better choice
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February 27, 2010 3:24:54 AM

The ASUS board will overclock much better then the gigabyte board, run cooler and be more stable.
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February 27, 2010 3:35:46 AM

I know you looking at the 6 GBs SATA and the USB 3.0 But the fastest SSD drives out that are reasonbly priced cant even saturate the 3GBs SATA so 6GBs not necessary. As for the USB 3.0 not widely used yet and you can always get a expansion card down the road if it you need they wont cost much.
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February 27, 2010 3:53:46 AM

Thx i guess this is what im going with so far.

1) I still need a good psu that can handle crossfire for 2 5870.
2) does samsung have a HD like the one i pick thats 500g?
3)Is that a good monitor?

ASUS Crosshair III Formula AM3 AMD 790FX ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 1-Pack for System Builders - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite...

AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition Deneb 3.2GHz Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor Model HDZ955FBGMBOX - Retail
XFX HD-587A-ZNF9 Radeon HD 5870 (Cypress XT) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card ... - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite...

G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL7D-4GBRM - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Sony Optiarc DVD Burner with LightScribe Black SATA Model AD-7241S-0B LightScribe Support - OEM
COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 Plus Intel Core i5 & Intel Core i7 compatible RR-B10-212P-G1 120mm "heatpipe direct contact" Long ... - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite...

ASUS VW246H Glossy Black 24" 2ms(GTG) HDMI Widescreen LCD Monitor 300 cd/m2 ASCR 20000:1 (1000:1) Built-in Speakers - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
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February 27, 2010 4:02:19 AM

i suggest the corsair 850hx or 1000hx psu
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February 27, 2010 4:37:28 AM

+1 for corsair and yes samsung makes a 500 gig one i have 2 in my system but not sure if they still sell them
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February 27, 2010 12:08:00 PM

I still think you should get the Gigabtye GA-790XTA-UD4 board. No only do you save $50, you get a more future proof board. Yes, right now USB 3/SATA III isn't that useful. However, if you remember what it was like trying to use USB 1 when USB 2 was out, you'd agree that it's worth it to avoid that painful experience. There are already SATA III HDDs coming out now, so I fully expect them to be in use in a year or at most two years. I don't see the logic of paying $50 more for a non-USB 3/SATA III board AND THEN having to pay another $30 or so for the add on card later. It just doesn't make sense...

A 1900x monitor is what you want.

You do not need a 1000W PSU. No one needs that much power. 1000W is enough power to Trifire 5970s (six total GPUs) or quadfire 5870s. It's just not worth the huge premium.

The problem I have with the Corsair units at 850W is that the TX isn't even 80+ Certified, so its very inefficient (more heat, more fatigue). The HX is expensive compared to other very high quality units in that range. The one I like to recommend at that range is the Silverstone 850W 80+ Silver for $150. It's one of the most efficient (there's an OCZ Z Series 80+ Gold for $200), it's one of the cheaper units, and it's made by a high quality manufacturer.

Another thing to mention is that you don't need 850W to power two 5870s. 750W would be more than enough. I believe that even with OCing and Crossfire, you have to add 5 or 6 SATA devices and have 35% capacitor aging to even be close to maxing 750W at 100% load.. Here's a great GPU/PSU combo that would save you about $35 over the GPU/CPU combo you have: HD 5870 and Antec Earthwatts 750W for $460 after rebate.

Samsung has the best HDDs right now, but the 500 GB version of the Spinpoint F3 is getting tough to find. A very similar performing HDD is the Seagate 7200.12. It should be about the same price as well.
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February 27, 2010 12:11:03 PM

get the msi 790fx board
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February 27, 2010 2:08:26 PM

Again, the MSI board is more expensive for useless features. It has the same problem as the Asus Crosshair with not being future proof.
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February 27, 2010 6:23:23 PM

the extra 2 PCIE aren't useless... it also has very good OC
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February 28, 2010 12:58:24 AM

The extra 2 PCIe are useless as Crossfire/SLI doesn't scale well past two cards. It's a waste of money to buy the additional cards and to pay for the ability to add those cards.
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February 28, 2010 1:40:13 AM

quad scales bad, but tri-fire still scales fine.

i've seen very few AMD mobos that have more than 2 PCIE slots
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February 28, 2010 3:18:27 AM

Trifire doesn't scale that great either. Unfortunately, I can't find the exact review I wanted, but I found one that will help prove my point. This review shows that you get about 7% performance from adding a third card on P55, which is similar to the AMD chipsets. In addition, the review notes that it actually HURTS performance in some games.

Another thing to remember about Crossfire is that not every game supports it, and fewer support more than two cards.

As for there being only a few AMD board that have more than 2 PCIe slots, that is true. You pay a huge premium for the extra slots, which aren't needed.
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February 28, 2010 3:56:29 AM

everyone knows about p55 being restrictive with PCIE bandwith, which isn't the case with 790fx, the msi can run 2 card@x16, and 3 or 4 cards @x8, so there should be a noticeable improvement over the p55 tri-fire penformance

also gpus aren't the only use you can give to a PCIE slot, some tv recorders use it aswell as SSDs, gpus are the main use for it but not the only one
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February 28, 2010 12:34:33 PM

AMD chipsets are just as restrictive for the PCIe slots as P55. You can get 16x/16x on P55 boards, but they're expensive just like the AMD ones. I'm not saying there isn't a performance gain after adding a third card. I'm saying that it's not big enough to justify the cost of the extra slot on the board and the cost of the card.

No TV tuners use the PCIe 2.0 slots. The use either the PCI or PCIe 1x slot. As for SSD cards, they're super expensive, and only useful for certain business uses. I can't think of one time that a consumer would need the additional speeds at that huge premium. In addition, that advantage of the SSD card can be neutralized much cheaper by a SATA III board and the upcoming SATA III SSDs.

Another thing to point out is that the OP didn't point out a need for either of those suggested uses of the PCIe 2.0 slots. So instead of just suggesting an expensive board, why not suggest something that's more inline with the OP's uses?
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February 28, 2010 1:02:47 PM

the 790fx holds the amd OC record
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February 28, 2010 1:23:29 PM

MadAdmiral said:
It's cheaper for one. Second, it has USB 3/SATA III support. So when the new external and internal devices get a full speed upgrade, you can use it. It's supposed to be like 10x faster.

The difference between the two is that the 5870 can play every game at max details at full HD resolutions. The 5850 struggles with a few of them. Once DirectX 11 comes into full use and games require more GPU power, the 5850 will quickly fall behind.

Yes. If you got the 955, you could very easily do a mild overclock on the stock cooler and essentially have a 965 for less.


~~~~~~~~Dont listen to this.... the 5850 can handle any game at max setting with my athlon II x4.... and the phenom II series will make an even better build.....
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February 28, 2010 1:32:52 PM

Quote:
MadAdmiral said: The problem I have with the Corsair units at 850W is that the TX isn't even 80+ Certified, so its very inefficient (more heat, more fatigue).


what's this? http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-r... it says 80plus certified


and here too!: http://www.corsair.com/products/tx/default.aspx

"80%+ energy efficiency at 20%, 50% and 100% load condition for less heat generation and lower energy bill"

i must be seeing things...
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February 28, 2010 1:51:19 PM

You both are correct at a certain point of view...

Corsair 850TX is 80%+ Certified but is not Bronze, Silver or Gold Certified.
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February 28, 2010 2:10:11 PM

it just doesn't specify
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February 28, 2010 6:36:44 PM

ldefterryd11 said:
~~~~~~~~Dont listen to this.... the 5850 can handle any game at max setting with my athlon II x4.... and the phenom II series will make an even better build.....


The fact is that the 5850 handles most games at maximum details at 1900x (CPU is irrelevant). The main exception is Crysis. It's still a great card, but will soon be to low powered to play newer games at max settings at that resolution, especially once DirectX 11 comes into mainstream use.

Yes, I'm going to trust something Corsair says about their PSUs being good :sarcastic: 

I'm just going by what Newegg says about the PSU, and it doesn't list the 850W unit as 80+ Certified. And if it doesn't specify what level it is, it is definitely just 80+. Why wouldn't you claim a higher level if you could?
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February 28, 2010 10:30:45 PM

MadAdmiral said:
especially once DirectX 11 comes into mainstream use.


which won't happen probably until 2 years or so, there's still no game that needs dx10 for being installed, so why would it be different with dx11?

also the poor dx11 penformance on ALL cards today is because it's still poorly implemented on the very few games that support it right now, over the time dx11 penformance will get much better, actually, before it came out MS said that dx11 was supposed to penform better than dx10 cause they had optimized it better, game manufacturers are just new to it so you can't expect it's full blown penformance on the very first titles that use it.
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February 28, 2010 10:37:02 PM

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...


Model
Brand CORSAIR
Model CMPSU-850TX
Spec
Type ATX12V 2.2 / EPS12V 2.91
Maximum Power 850W
Fans 140mm Thermally Controlled
PFC Active
Main Connector 20+4Pin
+12V Rails Single
PCI-Express Connector 4 x 6+2-Pin
SATA Power Connector 8
SLI Ready
CrossFire Ready
Modular No
Efficiency > 80%
Over Voltage Protection Yes
Overload Protection Yes
Input Voltage 100 - 240 V
Input Frequency Range 50/60 Hz
Input Current 12A
Output +3.3V@30A, +5V30A, +12V@70A, -12V@0.8A, +5VSB@3A
MTBF >100,000 Hours
Dimensions 5.9"(W) x 3.4"(H) x 5.9"(L)


---> "Efficiency > 80%" <---



WHAT!!!!!! newegg says it IS 80+ efficiency, damn i must be high or somethin...
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March 1, 2010 3:14:16 AM

There is a difference between the listed efficiency and being 80+ Certified. One is a claim by Corsair, one is determined by a third party. I'll trust the certification much more than the claims made by the company trying to sell the product.
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March 1, 2010 4:01:32 AM

OK guys i got a few more questions. I been searching for a gaming computer dest for less then $300 but all i can find is the Roccaforte and wow it does look cool but cant find any reviews on it. is there any othere dests out there kinda like this?

Also a good mouse and keyboard? i would like something that has green led so it will match my set up im going for.

http://www.roccafortesales.com/
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March 1, 2010 5:00:28 AM

MadAdmiral said:
The fact is that the 5850 handles most games at maximum details at 1900x (CPU is irrelevant). The main exception is Crysis. It's still a great card, but will soon be to low powered to play newer games at max settings at that resolution, especially once DirectX 11 comes into mainstream use.


hold on i'm trying to find someone on earth who actually plays crysis...

yes the 5850 starts to bog down with crysis at 1900+, but even the 5870 has trouble keeping average fps above 40. using crysis, a game virtually no one actually plays, as justification for a $80 upgrade is miopic when performance in every other game at that res is excellent. your point about "newer games" at that resolution being too much for a 5850 is accurate. but what are you using as your timescale here? a year? two years? what's a "newer" game? i'll be shocked if my single 5850 isn't still plowing through games in february of 2011.

my res is 1900x and every game i play runs fantastic, with max settings including max aa, etc. when things stop running smoothly, i'll add another one, and things will run smoothly again. when things once again stop running smoothly, i'll build a new pc. this is the nature of pc gaming as a hobby, eventually you will need to upgrade. always.
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March 1, 2010 8:37:53 AM

So is a 5850 in crossfire a big step from the single GPU?
I might get a 5850 with an Phenom 955/965 now and later another gpu.

Thanks.
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March 1, 2010 12:24:32 PM

@whatelsematters: Yes, that is true, but considering Crysis is the current standard for measure the top end performance of a card, it's relevant to cite as a reason. It's often used as a measure of future games performance simply because its so demanding. The timescale I typically use to make statements on future performance is about a year. The idea behind spending the extra $80 right now is that you would get an extra year out of the hardware you have now, and assuming Crossfire is the upgrade you choose, probably an extra 6 months out of that upgrade.

I would expect the 5850 to perform at the highest level for 2-3 years by itself, but begin to slow down after that. The 5870 would perform at the highest level for 3-4 years. Crossfire would likely extend the 5850's useful life by about a year, and the 5870's by about a year and a half. I'd say the year before an upgrade and an extra 6 months after is worth the additional cost.

@ansion: Technically, yes. However, there are a number of games that don't react well to Crossfire, meaning the extra power would drop down. If you want to see benchmarks for the 5850 in Crossfire, just find any benchmarks of the 5970, as that card has two 5850 GPUs on one fact.
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March 1, 2010 6:09:27 PM

who that considers himself a enthusiast gamer keeps the same gpu for more than 2-3 years?

also, seriously, no one but you doubts about corsair's quality with psus, so what have they done to you or you're just a silverstone fanboy?

i'm not a corsair fanboy as i have antec myself, but i've built lots of rigs with corsair psus and had several ones years ago, and they're all working great to this day and very powerful
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March 1, 2010 6:19:17 PM

daman said:
OK guys i got a few more questions. I been searching for a gaming computer dest for less then $300 but all i can find is the Roccaforte and wow it does look cool but cant find any reviews on it. is there any othere dests out there kinda like this?

Also a good mouse and keyboard? i would like something that has green led so it will match my set up im going for.

http://www.roccafortesales.com/


that one looks good, never bought or heard about roccaforte before though.


as for keyboard and mouse, i'd reccomend this one as mouse: http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Performance-Optical-Gami...

i'd not reccomend geting a "gaming keyboard" for $100+ just cause it look good, they all respond the same, any decent ~$20-30 keyboard will be just as good for gaming as the overpriced, big branded ones like razer's
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March 1, 2010 6:33:52 PM

Anyone who actually has to work for their money.

I don't doubt Corsair's quality. It's just at this wattage, the Silverstone unit is better. I routinely recommend different PSUs depending on the price, including, but not limited to Antec, Corsair, OCZ, Silverstone, and SeaSonic. I go with the best component for the build and the budget. In the 850W, it happens to be Silverstone (or at least it was last time I checked prices).

I'm also not a fan of overpriced gaming mice/keyboards. Grab a cheap pair at Walmart and save yourself a good $100 bucks on each...
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