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"Order Of Flow"

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December 19, 2012 5:58:00 AM

How do I setup this fancy "Order Of Flow"?

Like pump to radiator to whatever. This is a CPU only loop.

On a side note, anywhere they sell a 990XA chipset water block?

I read the sticky and it does not say anything about this (at least for what I read), and I can tell you its very sticky for just being a sticky.

More about : order flow

December 19, 2012 10:03:11 AM

Reservoir<Pump<Radiator<Cpu<Reservoir<... if you introduce a chipset block I'd Reservoir<Pump<Radiator<Cpu<Chipset(temps will be far much lower than the Overclocked cpu so not worth in prioritizing it first before Cpu)<Reservoir<...

Well Xspc produce chipset water blocks but not for 990XA
PS:Had to research a little about this over the net I didn't find any waterblocks for that chipset over Xspc and overclockers.co.uk

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December 19, 2012 10:22:37 AM

^ Flow agreed, but to the OP, I'd forget the chipset cooling block, you do not need it, and it's added heat, will limit your CPU overclocking headroom.
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December 19, 2012 10:36:28 AM

No you go rad, pump, cpu to res that way cool water to pump and cpu then back to storage tank.. that is correct flow..
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December 19, 2012 10:57:24 AM

robustus64 said:
No you go rad, pump, cpu to res that way cool water to pump and cpu then back to storage tank.. that is correct flow..


Wrong!

The coolest water is exiting the Radiator send that directly to the CPU, what if the pump is in the reservoir?

Did you even consider that?
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December 19, 2012 12:26:03 PM

Loop order doesn't really matter- it's about ensuring your pump doesn't run dry. In any loop, the loop is a closed system with every component acting upon the other. If you were to switch the loop order you would see a 1-3C difference in load temps at the most. Working equilibrium of a watercooling loop is determined the most by loop delta and the working state of specific heat and thermal capacity of the water or coolant in the system.

Having a radiator placed in loop order just prior to CPU or GPUs might drop their load temps, but it would be a minimal difference if radiators were placed 'after'...which is still 'before' them in the loop anyway. It's a cyclical system...there is no 'before' or 'after'.
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December 19, 2012 12:59:54 PM

4Ryan6 said:
Wrong!

The coolest water is exiting the Radiator send that directly to the CPU, what if the pump is in the reservoir?

Did you even consider that?


To the OP, when overclocking I would make my set-up like 4ryan6 suggests. :sol: 
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December 19, 2012 1:57:50 PM

It's one of the more common loop orders chosen. I currently run a different order, but I have tried different radiator loop order in past loops and it didn't many any real recognizable difference regardless of rad placement.
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December 20, 2012 9:25:21 AM

rubix_1011 said:
Loop order doesn't really matter- it's about ensuring your pump doesn't run dry. In any loop, the loop is a closed system with every component acting upon the other. If you were to switch the loop order you would see a 1-3C difference in load temps at the most. Working equilibrium of a watercooling loop is determined the most by loop delta and the working state of specific heat and thermal capacity of the water or coolant in the system.

Having a radiator placed in loop order just prior to CPU or GPUs might drop their load temps, but it would be a minimal difference if radiators were placed 'after'...which is still 'before' them in the loop anyway. It's a cyclical system...there is no 'before' or 'after'.


rubix_1011 said:
It's one of the more common loop orders chosen. I currently run a different order, but I have tried different radiator loop order in past loops and it didn't many any real recognizable difference regardless of rad placement.


When overclocking is brought into the picture, loop order does matter.

When the 1-3c difference you mention is added back to the performance desires that some have gone from air cooling to water cooling to get every overclocking advantage possible.

Then if the water cooling edge can be manipulated to add that 1-3c advantage back, (and it's actually closer to 3c), then the loop order is an important cooling performance consideration.

I agree it's a cyclical system, but you have to admit yourself where the coolest water is coming from is the radiators output side, and running that coolest water directly to the intended cooling component not only makes logical sense, but is the best regarding actual cooling performance of the intended component to be cooled.

If overclocking is not intended by the user then as you say loop order doesn't really matter, but we should all at least assume since water cooling is located in the Overclocking Section of THGF, that the majority have gone to water cooling for an overclocking edge.

With all due respect! Ryan
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December 20, 2012 2:01:37 PM

The point I was making was that even if you placed the rads after a CPU and GPU in a loop, it is still also before the CPU in the loop as well...it's still before the components and after.

We always talk in terms of the loop starting at the pump, but you could also say:

rads -> res -> pump -> CPU -> GPU ->

The coolest water is leaving the rads and hitting the CPU, just not immediately.

The rads are still before the CPU...but they are also after the GPU and CPU as well. It's just a matter of perspective where you start in the loop.

I also realize that in your system, 1-3C is something you are trying to avoid fluctuation in, but it depends on the actual performance of your specific loop and the delta involved. It also depends on where that 1-3C difference takes place, obviously that is at the radiator input tank and the output tank where this is your main difference. If you have radiators separated in your loop, you might have 1-2C difference at any single point. It's a matter of preference, but loop order is far less an issue than it is in calculating a correct delta and components used in a loop.

It really does depend on your specific expectations for water temps at a single point in a loop, so yes, I completely understand your stance and talking points. My intention was to add to some points while offering my opinion on others. I think the point to take away from this is that if you want to ensure the most linear cooling in a loop is to divide your rads between components in order of flow. It's up to the end user if the differences in temps are worth the extra tube routing needed.
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December 21, 2012 8:35:17 AM

rubix_1011 said:
The coolest water is leaving the rads.


Thanks for that confirmation. :) 

As to the rest of your point it's irrelevant to the point I'm making here, when it comes to squeezing every bit of cooling performance you can get from your water cooling investment, you have to step away from the traditional old school thinking.

I fully understand that whatever I say you can justify the radiator being before the CPU even if it's on the other side of the planet in the cooling loop location, but that's not the best cooling performance.

I've tested this myself, and it does make a difference!

For the best cooling performance for whatever you purchased the water cooling setup to cool, send the cooled water from the radiator directly to the water cooling block.
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December 21, 2012 8:56:17 AM

Rad (cool water)-----> Res/Pump (cool water to CPU) -----> CPU (heats up cool water) -------> rad (heated water gets cooled down via fans)
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December 21, 2012 9:46:50 AM

amuffin said:
Rad (cool water)-----> Res/Pump (cool water to CPU) -----> CPU (heats up cool water) -------> rad (heated water gets cooled down via fans)


When you are overclocking or even when you're not overclocking, you should want the coolest water available going to the cooling blocks, this is not Rocket Science, it's really a No Brainer!

The coolest water is the output side of the radiator, for best cooling performance it should go directly to whatever you bought the water cooling setup to cool!

Rad (cool water) ------> Water Cooling Blocks (heats up cool water) -----> Res/Pump (Res supplies constant available water to pump or else pump would run dry and burn up, and the pump pressurizes and circulates the water) back to the Rad, (and the cycle of water cooling life continues!)

Logically look at your suggested setup, why would you send the cooled radiator water to the Res/Pump to be heated before it goes to the water cooling blocks?

Some of the pumps are inside the Reservoir?

Why?

To cool the pump!

So the pump adds heat to the water.

What's more important?

Cooling the pump, with a much higher heat tolerance, or your cooling block or blocks?

Most Reservoirs are located inside the computer case which is actually warmer inside than the outside ambient air.

So if you have a pump creating heat inside a reservoir, inside the computer case, and you cannot see the negatives of your suggested setup, I have some Beach Front Property in Kansas I'd like to sell you! :lol: 




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December 21, 2012 10:13:24 AM

melikepie said:
How do I setup this fancy "Order Of Flow"?

Like pump to radiator to whatever. This is a CPU only loop.

On a side note, anywhere they sell a 990XA chipset water block?

I read the sticky and it does not say anything about this (at least for what I read), and I can tell you its very sticky for just being a sticky.


Since it is a CPU only loop, "Like pump to radiator to whatever", (whatever would be your CPU water block then output from the CPU water block to the Reservoir), even if you have zero overclocking intentions sending the coolest possible water directly to your CPU is the best cooling performance, especially for the longevity of the CPU.

As I've already stated, I would forget the chipset cooling block as you do not need it in the first place, besides the fact it adds heat and flow restriction to the loop.
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December 21, 2012 2:23:01 PM

Pmp>CPU>Radiator>Reservoir

I have always heard that its best to have the CPU block directly after the pump so that it gets the most pressure. However, it probably won't make a noticeable difference.

I would say make the "Order of Flow" have as little tubing as possible. The shorter the loop is the faster the coolant can make its way through all of the components.
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December 21, 2012 6:02:01 PM

My input is coming from hydroponics but I think the same fluid dynamics apply to water cooling here. Yes, you have to look at it as a circle because at some point the water temp out through the system will be nearly the same.

To halfblazed - If the psi changed that much to make a difference on flow in a certain part of the system then there is a "bottleneck" that is robbing performance from the system as psi should be near the same out through the system aside from the res.
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December 22, 2012 4:24:43 PM

halfblazed said:
Pmp>CPU>Radiator>Reservoir

I have always heard that its best to have the CPU block directly after the pump so that it gets the most pressure. However, it probably won't make a noticeable difference.

I would say make the "Order of Flow" have as little tubing as possible. The shorter the loop is the faster the coolant can make its way through all of the components.


After looking at pictures of your setup, (nice looking by the way!), your flow order is actually, Pmp>Memory>CPU>Rad1>GPUs>Rad2>Res

You actually have your memory block in line before the CPU.

You actually break, your quote:

"I have always heard that its best to have the CPU block directly after the pump so that it gets the most pressure."

Obviously you think cooling performance wise, pressure is more important than the actual water temperature?

Where exactly did you get this information from?

I would think if you are running a pump powerful enough to do the job in the first place, pressure would be your last concern, getting the coolest water to what you are actually cooling, would be my highest concern for the best cooling performance possible.

Obviously very few seem to share my views regarding this subject, but I still stand that the best cooling performance, is to have the CPU immediately after the radiators seeing as how the CPU needs as much cooling as possible, especially since you are overclocking your CPU to 4.5ghz.

GPUs are much more temperature forgiving than an overclocked 2600K is.

As I've already said, "Your rig is very nice looking", you put a lot of work into it and it's obvious, I additionally am saying that you could improve it's cooling performance rethinking and rerouting your flow order.
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January 1, 2013 1:43:07 PM

Best answer selected by melikepie.
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