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HD 3650 AGP driver issue

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February 18, 2010 2:51:15 PM

So I just bought a Club3d 4650 for my old WinXP machine to get it going again, because the last radeon died. So i cleaned all the drivers manually and with the driver cleaner, found latest 10.1 HOTFIX drivers for 4650 AGP card, installed like a charm and just after the display driver installation the screen went all black.

After the forced restart, the screen would go black just after the windows load screen. The only way I can write to you now is uninstall the drivers through safe mode and then load it up. I tried 3 different drivers from 3 different sources with the same results.

I have tried updating my motherboard drivers and disabled AGP fastwrite in the BIOS without any luck. My monitor is connected to the card via DVI cable. Could this be the issue? The PC only has 300W on it, could this be the issue?

Thank you greatly for you advice.

More about : 3650 agp driver issue

February 18, 2010 3:21:44 PM

Tried changing to analog cable - didn't help.
a b \ Driver
February 18, 2010 5:37:30 PM

When you say you found latest 10.1 HOTFIX drivers for 4650 AGP card, does that mean you downloaded the ATI drivers (here) for your card and your OS? If not, try doing that.
Related resources
February 19, 2010 10:18:19 AM

I've tried the drivers from ATI site, I've tried Sapphire HOTFIX drivers, I've tried Club3d old drivers as they were called "(WORKING)" and I've tried the drivers that came with the card on the CD. None of them worked. Club3d drivers worked the best because the screen didn't black out just after the installation, but it still blacked out after restarting the PC after windows load screen. I've tried updating my VIA chipset drivers as well. It didn't do much help either.
February 19, 2010 11:24:14 AM

Also, for some reason, when I put in the new video card, the floppy drive started showing errors when booting up. Maybe there isn't enough power or something? I don't care about the floppy drive, but I thought that maybe it might have something to do with it.
a b \ Driver
February 19, 2010 10:18:11 PM

It sounds like something other than the GPU drivers. Post your system's components by make and model.
February 20, 2010 9:43:48 AM

I still think it's the drivers, because why would it black out just after I install them? I'm not sure about all components in there, because I'm not by that computer at the moment. I'll post what I can remember.

Processor: AMD Athlon 2500+ XP
Motherboard: DFI AD77
Video: Club3d HD 3650 GDDR2
a b \ Driver
February 20, 2010 4:52:56 PM

After re-reading all the posts, post your PSU make/model and the specs. (which should be on the attached label.
February 21, 2010 8:15:33 AM

The model and make of the PSU is Channel Well ATX-300. I used the last 4-pin Molex connector to connect video card. I have to DVD drives, a floppy drive, couple of 256MB RAM's, a TV tuner, a LAN card and this video card. Maybe there isn't enough power for all of them?
February 22, 2010 12:12:24 PM

Well I've just tried taking out everything I can to make it work and make sure it might be the PSU's problem. I've taken out two DVD burners, an FDD, a TV tuner and a LAN card. I was left with just the motherboard, the HDD, the processor, 2x256mb RAM, a fan, and the video card. Do you think my PSU would still not be enough? It still installs the drivers perfectly and in safe mode's (which is the only one that manages to boot) device manager, it still shows that the drivers for my video card are installed without any faults.

And it started to show two messages when booting up:

Secondary channel no 80 conductor cable installed
Floppy disk(s) fail (40)

The floppy disk fails even if it is plugged in, it just starts to not work after I put in the video card. I'm not sure what the other message means... Maybe it has something to do with the black screen I'm getting?

Thank you very much for your help.
a b \ Driver
February 22, 2010 6:12:14 PM

The PSU should have been adequate after you took out those components. In order for the display drivers to work, you must boot into windows normally (booting into "safe" mode does not allow the display drivers to load). How long have you been using the PSU (because they do wear-out)?

The 2 messages: "No 80 conductor..." is referring to the 2 CD/DDs you removed, and 40 code is floppy disks fail. But you shouldn't be getting that msg when it is connected.

Check your BIOS settings to verify that your OS selection is "plug and play," and that the IRQ addresses are set to "automatically assign," NOT manually assigned.

I'm trying to download your manual now, so give me a few hours to read through it, and see if we can solve this.
a b \ Driver
February 22, 2010 11:33:49 PM

If you want to see the manual I used, it is here.

The BIOS settings begin in Chapter 3, page 41 of the manual.
Let's check some BIOS settings; I've underlined the BIOS screen names, with the Functions in that screen that we want to confirm/set.

Standard CMOS Features
Video: EGA/VGA

Advanced BIOS Features
Virus Warning: Disabled
OS Select for DRAM > 64MB: Non OS-2

Advanced Chipset Features
AGP Aperture Size: 256M (or the highest number you can choose)
AGP & P2P Bridge Control: APG 8X mode
Video RAM Cacheable: Disabled

3.1.4 Integrated Peripherals
-- Init Display First: AGP

PnP/PCI Configurations
Reset Configuration Data: Disabled
PCI/VGA Palette Snoop: Disabled
PCI IRQ Assignment: AUTO for all choices

Then "Save and Exit" The computer will reboot.

Let us know your results.
February 24, 2010 7:53:20 AM

I was getting those two messages just after I connected the video card. My PSU is quite worn out, I think - just over 4 years I've been using it.

So I'll try those BIOS settings as soon as I can. I really appreciate your help - it's quite rare nowadays :) 
February 24, 2010 8:48:57 AM

The only setting that was different, than you wrote was

3.1.4 Integrated Peripherals
-- Init Display First: AGP

it was set to PCI. I've tried changing it and then installing the drivers I got from Club3d website (they are older ones, but it is said that they are working ones) without any luck - the screen would still black out after windows load screen.
a b \ Driver
February 24, 2010 4:48:46 PM

You're welcome. These threads are kind of like pop quizzes. I try to help where I can.
So now, I think you may need a new PSU. Pull up the PSU calculator in the earlier post and fill in your components. Give yourself a little headroom in case you want to add components later - if the calculation shows 450W, get a 500W.
Also look for a PSU that's not less than 80+ efficiency.
February 24, 2010 6:20:14 PM

I used the calculator with all my existing components and it calculated the minimum of 266W on 90% load. I have also calculated the required minimum wattage when I have taken out those components that I was talking about and it calculated 172W. So could it really be that the 300W might not be enough, when it has calculated 172W? You know, I just want to make sure, because I don't want to buy a brand new PSU, which is quite expensive for my budget just to know that this isn't an issue. It really is an old system, and I would really like to avoid spending any more money on it.
a b \ Driver
February 24, 2010 10:42:48 PM

Here's what we've done:
-- Installed the new GPU
-- Tried 3 versions of drivers, including hotfix
-- Installed updated motherboard/VIA drivers
-- Tried DVI and VGA cables
-- Removed all unnecessary components to reduce power requirements
-- Optimized the BIOS settings for AGP video card
-- PSU calculator shows your system needs 266W @90% load

No Change in Results:
-- Floppy shows error (Code 40) at POST with video card installed
-- Video goes to black screen on normal and SAFE boots to XP
-- Uninstalling video drivers allows SAFE boot into XP

I just visited Club3D to find your card. I reviewed the earlier posts. I noticed that your posts discuss the HD 3650 and HD 4650 AGP models. Club3D does not list an AGP version of the HD4650, but does have a listing for the HD3650 AGP.
The HD 3650 AGP is here. The system requirements Tab shows you need a 350W or greater PSU, one free 4-pin ATX power connector (also called a molex connector - same kind that provide power to ATA HDDs and ATA CD/DVD drives), and minimum of 512 MB RAM.

Three more questons:
-- Which do you have: HD 3650 or another model?
-- Did you connect the required 4-pin power cable to the GPU (the connector is at the end of the card nearest your HDD)?
-- Do you have at least 512 MB of RAM?
February 25, 2010 8:20:40 AM

I don't understand how could I make this mistake, but I have a HD 3650 model. I did connect the 4-pin power cable to the GPU. And I do have 2x256mb of RAM, that is 512mb.
a b \ Driver
February 25, 2010 11:17:11 AM

OK. There looks to be two remaining possibilities:
-- the video card is bad or
-- the PSU is not adequate

If you have access to a friend's board, you could install the GPU and load the drivers to see if it works.
If you have access to another PSU, you could try that on your board to see if it works.
Otherwise, I would go with a new PSU.

I think we've tried everything else.
February 25, 2010 1:58:04 PM

I will try that. But I have another idea - could it be, that I haven't cleaned the GPU drivers of the previous video card properly and they are now the issue? I've used a driver cleaner, but still. Maybe a complete overhaul of windows would help? What do you think?
a b \ Driver
February 25, 2010 4:40:22 PM

It could be, but ATI's driver uninstall is much better than NVidia's - I haven't had any trouble completely uninstalling ATI drivers w/o using driver cleaner in the last 4 or 5 years.

I'm still stuck on bad video card or inadequate PSU.
March 2, 2010 8:44:07 PM

Go for the PSU, or at least have a look at it. I'm just resurrecting an old system similar to yours, awaiting delivery of a Sapphire HD3650. Also ordered a PSU as well.

My PSU is a stock came with the PC heap, 4 years old now and rated at 450w, that’s enough according to minimum system requirements for this GPU (assuming it’s still able to push 450w, if it ever was!).

The problem comes when you look at the +12v ampere rating for the PSU, my 450w has a single rail rated at 18A. I cant see this being enough as any modern half decent 400w PSU probably has around 30A +12 (2x 15A).

Now mine rated at 18A (so 204W +12V rail) as a cheap, came with the PC is probably a little optimistic, let take a guess at 15A max continuous power (160W max) factor into that component aging and you could be talking 140W or less on the 12V rail (or around 12A true power).

Should be delivered Thurs, the new PSU is a better quality 500W with 2x 20A rails with Max combined of 400W.
March 11, 2010 12:39:00 PM

So I finally got access to another PC to do some hardware testing! It had a 300W PSU as well though.

Here's what I've tried:

I have inserted my video card to a testing machine and it worked (so the video card is fine).

Then I have inserted my PSU to the testing machine and everything worked nicely as well (so the PSU is fine as well).

Then I've tried inserting testing machine's PSU and video card (GeForce FX5500) to my PC and it worked as well.

Then I've tried inserting my PSU and GeForce video card to my PC and it worked as well.

Here's what didn't work:
My video card in my PC and either PSU's.


My thoughts:
Either the PSU is inadequate, though I still doubt it because it there weren't any more components connected in my PC than the testing machine's - It even had 2 HDD's, DVD burner and a floppy drive connected. My PC only had 1 HDD connected, no optical drives, nothing in the PCI slots as well.

Or there's something wrong with the BIOS settings - I've tried matching the settings to the working ones - 64MB Aperture size, fastwrite disabled, AGP mode - auto (there's wasn't as much settings as in mine - the BIOS was a lot older).

Maybe I need to update my BIOS? Though I doubt it, because like I said, the working one was a lot older.

Or for some other reason my motherboard DFI AD77 is not compatible with HD 3650 video card.



It would be good to try out a more powerful PSU as well, but I don't have access to any, and well, my card worked with a 300W as well.

What are your thoughts?
a b \ Driver
March 11, 2010 2:19:42 PM

It may be that the card is not compatible with your board.
You know it works, and that it works with a 300W PSU.
If you want to try updating your BIOS, you can download BIOS updates here for:
-- AD77 PRO
-- AD77

If updating the BIOS does not work, you may have get another video card to try, or replace your board with a newer model.

March 11, 2010 2:38:30 PM

Well... ***. How was I supposed to know that the card might not be compatible with the board? Is there any compatibility list? Before buying the card, I thought, that the only thing needed was an AGP slot. So updating the BIOS is a last shot in the dark?
March 11, 2010 4:09:11 PM

I did a little reading about DFI AD77 and its VIA KT400 chipset, and seen that people run into problems with video cards and this MB, specifically, this KT400A chipset. I'm not sure if mine is KT400 or KT400A. They experience problems, if 8x speed is chosen. The problems are gone, if they choose 4x speed. The problem is, I don't have an option to choose 4x. There is only 8x. I would try updating BIOS, maybe another option would appear, though, I can't find the required BIOS drivers as well, because your both links redirect to http://lp.lanparty.com.tw/portal/CM and I'm not sure what LANParty product should I choose.

I really want to get this card working. It would be a shame to just put a brand new video card in the bin.
a b \ Driver
March 12, 2010 1:09:38 AM

Sorry about the broken links - I always test before I post (they worked) - must've had a cookie.

There may be newer chipset drivers than you have now. Here is VIA's site; I found some VIA chipset drivers for KT400 and KT400A, you'll have to go through the 4 drop down selections. Then download and install. Then see if the AGP card works.

On to the BIOS. If you don't have the original manual, you will have to find your motherboard model, it should be printed on the board somewhere: either AD77 PRO or AD77 from what you said earlier.
Go to the portal in the earlier link, and on the left side of the page you'll see:
Product Search: choose Phaseout Model, then
Select Model: choose AD77 or AD77 PRO (whichever is yours)
That will take you the download page for that model where you will see BIOS on the upper row of tabs.



March 12, 2010 1:35:44 PM

Updating VIA chipset drivers didn't help, and I still can't find the BIOS drivers - there is no Product Search link on the left. There was only a link "product pages" in the description text, and there was the Phaseout Model link, but I couldn't find my board there. It was some VIA Embedded Boards, nothing to do with my DFI AD77 board. I couldn't find anything similar that you mentioned. I tried doing site search for AD77 and the only result I got was a PDF file describing KT400 chipset. I tried doing google search for "DFI AD77 bios drivers" but was unsuccessful. Tried searching DFI official page as well, but without any luck. So the question is, where can I really get those BIOS drivers for my board? :) 
March 12, 2010 2:03:52 PM

Oh, I misunderstood what you meant by saying "Go to the portal in the earlier link". I've gone and clicked the VIA link. Stupid. Found it in the LANParty website. Will try reading about updating BIOS (I never had a chance to do it before) and updating it.
March 12, 2010 2:21:03 PM

Updating the BIOS didn't help one bit. I think I had the same version before as well. I didn't get a 4x AGP speed option. I have tried some other settings combinations but nothing worked. So basically, nothing else left to do or try? This video card is just not compatible with this board?
March 12, 2010 2:38:11 PM

I have tried installing the newest available ATI drivers as well just yet. It behaves differently - it starts to show a black screen with a blinking underscore during the installation process, and I am forced to restart my PC manually.
a b \ Driver
March 13, 2010 4:27:10 PM

donkapone said:
Updating the BIOS didn't help one bit. I think I had the same version before as well. I didn't get a 4x AGP speed option. I have tried some other settings combinations but nothing worked. So basically, nothing else left to do or try? This video card is just not compatible with this board?

I believe that card is just not compatible with this board - I think we have exhausted all the possibilities and the potential fixes.

March 14, 2010 12:33:41 PM

For future references, is it possible to tell in advance if the card is not going to be compatible? Just to know, before buying?
a b \ Driver
March 15, 2010 9:45:58 PM

It is likely you can find out in advance with popular motherboards (and chipsets) and GPUs by using google, visiting the mfrs' website (email/forum for additional info), or posting in these forums. It really helps here to post your system components, including makes and model numbers, because we'll look them up to see if there's an obvious problem or conflict.

In your case, the HD 3650 likely met the ATI standard, but your chipset could not work it. I had a VIA chipset on a Tyan board several years ago - it had so many probs. I use Intel now because every hardware mfr. absolutely has to make their products work on intel. I'm not a fanboi, just had good experiences with it.

I'm sorry we couldn't get your card working.
March 20, 2010 3:19:03 PM

Bought a slightly used MSI GeForce 6200 512mb - it works :) 
Anonymous
a b \ Driver
May 12, 2010 9:51:59 PM

donkapone said:
Bought a slightly used MSI GeForce 6200 512mb - it works :) 

Your not the only one with this problem
i've a msi kt4l with problems too.
I play halo and randomly i get black screens
replaced the psu but nothing helped
nor ati drivers or my club3d drivers
put my nvidia card back and it works!
So i think the via chipset is the badguy
June 7, 2011 6:26:12 PM

Hi everyone, it may seem odd that i'm posting after a year on this post.
The problem is not with the drivers or psu as far as i have experienced (yes i had force 3d hd 3650 agp).
The problem is that the graphic card itself gets overheated and stops functioning when playing games etc, when graphic usage is at max! I tested everything stated, changing bios settings(graphic apperture), new drivers, hotfix, new windows, psu.
So i decided to used a fan to cool the cpu, gpu in particular and voila, ever since then, never had any problem

Hope this helps!
:) 
a b \ Driver
June 7, 2011 7:10:12 PM

This topic has been closed by Mousemonkey
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