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IC Diamond Results

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a b à CPUs
May 8, 2010 11:18:46 PM

Quick and crude

The system ;
P6X58D Premium
I7 980x @ 4.27
Modified Corsair H50 with MCR220 Rad
Rad fans from H20 220 kit @ 1800 RPM's
120mm intake
120mm Exhaust
http://i42.tinypic.com/10oh95l.jpg

25ºC Room temp ( thermometer on my desk )
28ºC Case temp ( thermal sensor in case )

AS5
http://i43.tinypic.com/2enwz83.png

IC Diamond
http://i40.tinypic.com/i5zos5.png


No real difference.

Application was the same as I do for AS5, a thin 15mm line down the middle of the chip.
I'll check it and try again later.

Update
As promised, I checked the application, it was kind of light :pfff: 

Reapplied using the pea method, now I'm getting the 3º drop in max temp that I should
http://i40.tinypic.com/27wzrer.png

More about : diamond results

May 9, 2010 12:39:16 AM

no real difference? i think i see the IC Diamond 24 Carat to be atleast 3C avg cooler than the AS5 and thats a good result for a change in thermal paste IMO :) 
a b à CPUs
May 9, 2010 12:42:43 AM

Yep. It seems like it's approx. 3'C cooler for 5 cores. :D 
Related resources
May 9, 2010 12:45:41 AM

It was 6-7C cooler than what I was using before.

(3+ year old Lantec grease)
a c 133 à CPUs
May 9, 2010 12:56:34 AM

Artic Silver 5 on a Q8200 @ 3.2ghz 1.36 VCore
Idle Temps
CPU die Temp 27 Idle

Core 1- 44
Core 2- 39
Core 3- 38
Core 4- 39

Ambient 27 C Thermometer on my desk

Cooler OCZ Vendetta

Load Temps 10 Minutes In Place large FFT's
CPU die Temp 54

Core 1- 64
Core 2- 60
Core 3- 60
Core 4- 58

IC Diamond 24 on a Q8200 @ 3.2ghz 1.36 VCore
Idle Temps
CPU die Temp 27 Idle

Core 1- 40
Core 2- 38
Core 3- 36
Core 4- 39

Ambient 27 C Thermometer on my desk

Cooler OCZ Vendetta

Load Temps 10 Minutes In Place large FFT's
CPU die Temp 54

Core 1- 60
Core 2- 58
Core 3- 57
Core 4- 57

All temps taken with HWMonitior

So about a 3C decrease from AS5 so it does definitely work a little better but is it a huge difference no would I go out of my way to get it probably not but it is good compound none the less.
a b à CPUs
May 9, 2010 1:46:52 AM

Derbixrace said:
no real difference? i think i see the IC Diamond 24 Carat to be atleast 3C avg cooler

Yep, and if you average out the maximum temperatures you come up with 70.8 for each run, though the IDC was 1º lower than the AS5's max.
IDC 73 | 72 | 68 | 68 | 72 | 72
AS5 72 | 74 | 65 | 68 | 73 | 73

Like I said , I'll check the application and run it again, just not tonight, it's game time.

a c 133 à CPUs
May 9, 2010 1:50:25 AM

At first I did like you Delluser with the Line but it didn't spread right when I put the heatsink on so I did like they said on their website Put a nice pea size amount in center of CPU then let it sit for 5 minutes they say 10 but I was impatient then I put the heatsink back on like normal and it gave me better results.
a b à CPUs
May 9, 2010 1:59:45 AM

saaiello said:
At first I did like you Delluser with the Line but it didn't spread right when I put the heatsink on so I did like they said on their website Put a nice pea size amount in center of CPU then let it sit for 5 minutes they say 10 but I was impatient then I put the heatsink back on like normal and it gave me better results.

The pea size drop thing has been giving me problems with this cpu, I end up with a blob on each side of center, that's why i started back with the line down the center. I'll get a pic of what the IDC looks like when I remove the block again.

There was nobody on the game server :( 
a b à CPUs
May 9, 2010 2:23:16 AM

Just post clickable thumbnails guys so people on crappy connections can load the page ;) 

The best way to get good performance with this TIM is a single blob and a hell of alot of pressure to squeeze it out. Unlike AS5 it doesn't spread easily due to a high viscosity. If you are having "problems" (whatever you mean by that) then perhaps your heatspreader and/or heatsink is concave/convex.
May 9, 2010 2:25:14 AM

Why not use an old credit card to spread then mount my water block?
a b à CPUs
May 9, 2010 2:42:48 AM

randomizer said:
Just post clickable thumbnails guys so people on crappy connections can load the page ;) 

You got it :) 
a b à CPUs
May 9, 2010 2:50:43 AM

builderbobftw said:
Why not use an old credit card to spread then mount my water block?

Because spreading adds air pockets, and with this stuff it would probably be a bit of a pain to do anyway. Spreading is completely unnecessary. As long as you have enough pressure, when you squeeze the two surfaces together the stuff will spread out and fill the microsocopic gaps and eventually come out the side if there's enough of it (true for any TIM ).
a b à CPUs
May 9, 2010 3:40:12 AM

Original post updated.
May 9, 2010 3:44:23 AM

You guys are getting ahead of me


PLEASE READ THOROUGHLY BEFORE TESTING/POSTING YOUR IC Diamond RESULTS!!!







PLEASE ONLY POST WITH RESULTS WHEN YOU HAVE FULL RESULTS, OTHERWISE YOUR POST MAY NOT BE SEEN BY ALL IF YOU RESERVE THE POST FOR LATER RESULTS WITH IC7. PEOPLE TEND TO GO TO THE NEWEST POST, SO IF YOU WANT IT TO BE SEEN BY ALL, POST YOUR RESULTS ONCE YOU HAVE THEM ALL. ALL OTHER DISCUSSION/SUPPORT POSTS, GO RIGHT AHEAD!!

PLEASE BE SURE TO BENCHMARK YOUR CPU TEMPS WITH YOUR CURRENT TIM AND RECORD YOUR RESULTS BEFORE USING IC7 FOR TESTING. WE NEED BEFORE AND AFTER PLEASE!

ALSO, PLEASE MAKE SURE YOU DON'T CHANGE ANY VARIABLE OTHER THAN THE THERMAL COMPOUND USED FOR BEFORE/AFTER (I.E. SAME VOLTS/CLOCKS, COOLER, AND OTHER HARDWARE)



APPLICATION METHOD


For all those participating in the IC7 giveaway, please follow this link to the Innovation Cooling website for more information on the product:

Innovation Cooling

Proper application is the key to this product. The nature and consistency of this product is likely quite different from what most of you are used to in a Thermal Compound. We don't recommend use of traditional methods of applying the TIM like razor blades, lines, x's (though some people have reported great success with the X method), etc. Through extensive testing, the best overall application method has been determined to be a pea sized amount directly in the center of the CPU. The TIM should be adequately spread via the downforce of the CPU cooler (a sufficient amount of downforce will provide best results; minimum 50psi of downforce should be the goal for optimum results. please see the Innovation Cooling website for more info). Also, for coolers/surfaces that have many peaks and valleys, it may be beneficial to wet the surface(s) with a small amount of IC7 to initially fill the voids in the mounting surfaces...then proceed with recommended application as usual. Please click on the link below for application methodology and shoot me a PM if you have any questions. FYI, read the review on this site for Gilgamesh's results and ideas for application.

Keep in mind, IC7 has been formulated with the specific goals of providing superb thermal conductivity with short set times, but also for long term stability and performance without pump/bakeout through extended thermal cycling or usage. This stuff is very stable over long periods of time.

APPLICATION INSTRUCTIONS

Please do feel free to navigate through the whole Innovation Cooling website as there is tonnes of information on there that might prove beneficial.


HOW TO POST RESULTS


THE FORMAT IS AS FOLLOWS (ALL TEMPS IN C):

OPTIONAL INFO: PROCESSOR, VOLTS/CLOCKS, HEATSINK/COOLING USED, ETC.

Pre-IC7
Compound:
Abient Temp:
Idle Temp:
Load Temp:

IC7
Ambient Temp:
Idle Temp:
Load Temp:


If you have any problems or need support, please feel free to post here for now. Remember, proper application and good even heat sink pressure (goal should be minimum of 50psi or more) are crucial for peak performance. Too much or too little compound will impact your results so please do visit the Innovation Cooling website for Application Instructions with images and explanations. For those with direct touch heatpipe coolers, you might want to try wetting the contact surface of the cooler with a tiny amount of ICD to fill any small voids before proceeding with the normal application method.

. If anyone has any questions, please feel free to post up. Sign ups are still open and should be posted in the sign up thread.

Thanks all and happy testing!!!
a b à CPUs
May 9, 2010 4:09:21 AM

Hey Andrew,
First I'd like to say thank you.
Next,
Even with a light application your product was only 2c higher than the AS5 at idle and still managed 1c lower max.
With the proper application I got the 3c drop from max and even better avg. temps that concern some people.
As far as idle temps,they don't really concern me unless they're horrendous, I ran Prime twice after the reapplication, so the minimum shows higher than what it should.
I'll do it better on the next system, like I said this was quick and crude.
a b à CPUs
May 9, 2010 4:24:00 AM

Don't worry Andrew, I'll sticky a proper results thread when you have one set up. But I'll only do it in one section and link to it in the existing giveaway threads so as not to congest the top of the forum too much with stickies.
a c 127 à CPUs
May 9, 2010 10:07:27 PM

Got mine the other day and was also amazed at the tube size. The package was a bit open and my fiance could see the top of the tube and at first thought it was drugs or something.

I kinda laughed but when she opened it figured out it was something for my PC.

I will try to do it today or Tuesday since I am kinda busy but will have a go at it. I expect it will give me better results than my current Zalman thermal grase that came with my HSF and probably better than AS5 since most people are posting better than AS5 results.
May 9, 2010 11:17:26 PM

how many grams is in the tube? :) 
a b à CPUs
May 9, 2010 11:29:04 PM

Honestly, I noticed a 2-5c temperature decrease across all four cores of my i5 750 recently, I double checked by reapplying both, between AS5 and AC MX-2, so in light of the price difference I would say that ICD is just hyped. I was really surprised at how well the MX-2 performed, and it is very easy to spread with a much better consistency as opposed to AS5.

Edit: I would like to add that I have perfected applying TIM to my Xigmatek HDT-s1283, because I bought it when HDT designs were still brand new and no one knew how to apply TIM. I've applied and reapplied so much TIM to this damn heatsink it is ridiculous.

For anyone wanting to know, the best way is to get a razor and fill in the gaps between the heatpipes and the aluminum base until it is smooth. Now take a almost imperceptible amount out so there is a SLIGHT gap between the pipes and the base. Now apply a thin line of TIM about an inch to an inch and an eighth on each heat pipe. they should be no thinner than a 0.9mm piece of graphite for a mechanical pencil, but they shouldn't be much thicker either.
a c 127 à CPUs
May 10, 2010 12:26:07 AM

So I found some time today to actually test it out and I will say I am pretty impressed at it. I got about a 8c drop from idle across the cores and a 9c drp under load. I am not too suprised since I was using the standard Zalman thermal grese that came with the CPNS 9700 LED I have but still, its a nice drop. Now I used HWMonitor and the temps seems high so I also used Speedfan to make sure and there is about a 10c difference. It might be due to an issue with the Q6600 G0 that was around since 2007 when I built the machine. Some temp programs still have it listed as a 105TDP CPU so it is normally higher than the real temp.

I did take screenshots of idle and load. I used Prime95 Small FTTs since that one tends to really load the CPU to max.

My specs:

Asus P5K-E Deluxe Wifi -AP
Intel C2Q6600 G0 stepping @ 3GHz 1.25v
Zalman CPNS 9700 Cooler
4Gigs Corsair XMS2 PC8500
2x Seagate 500GB SATA 300 in Raid 0
ATI Radeon HD4870 1GB GDDR5
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Fatality Extreme Gamer(has the 64MB X-RAM)
BFG 800 Watt Quad Rail PSU
Apevia X-Navigator Case. It has a lot of blue lights
Logitech G15 Gaming Keyboard
Logitech G500

My CPU is running at 3GHz under load, 2GHz idle and has a voltage of 1.232v idle and 1.224v under load (yes I was lucky enough to get a Q6600 G0 that would run lower than stock voltage OCed to 3GHz stable and I love it :love:  ).

The TIM I was using was the generic Zalman TIM that came with my CPNS 9700 as seen here:



I had it on my CPU since 2007 when I built the machine so it has had 2.5 years time to cure so it was pretty set. My Q6600 is relativley flat luckily and the Zalman CPNS 9700 I got has literally a mirror finish thats pretty good for not being lapped.

This is my CPU with the Zalman TIM idle:



CPU: Q6600 G0 @2GHz
VCORE: 1.232v
CPU Temp: 34c

Cores in HWMonitor:
Core 0: 47c
Core 1: 45c
Core 2: 39c
Core 3: 39c

Cores in SpeedFan:
Core 0: 37c
Core 1: 35c
Core 2: 29c
Core 3: 29c

Zalman TIM under load:



CPU: Q6600 G0 @3GHz
VCORE: 1.224v
CPU Temp: 55c

Cores in HWMonitor:
Core 0: 69c
Core 1: 65c
Core 2: 58c
Core 3: 57c

Cores in SpeedFan:
Core 0: 60c
Core 1: 56c
Core 2: 49c
Core 3: 47c

Now for the results. I pulled off my HSF, cleaned off the Zalman TIM completley using 90% Isopropyl alcohol. Added a pea sized drop in the middle per the IC Diamond website instructions and put it back together while applying enough pressure. I also tightened my HSF using the screws, which is one thing I love about my HSF since it is mounted vias crews and not push pins.

IC Diamond TIM idle:



CPU: Q6600 G0 @2GHz
VCORE: 1.232v
CPU Temp: 27c

Cores in HWMonitor:
Core 0: 39c
Core 1: 39c
Core 2: 34c
Core 3: 34c

Cores in SpeedFan:
Core 0: 29c
Core 1: 28c
Core 2: 24c
Core 3: 24c

IC DIamond TIM under load:



CPU: Q6600 G0 @3GHz
VCORE: 1.224v
CPU Temp: 46c

Cores in HWMonitor:
Core 0: 60c
Core 1: 59c
Core 2: 56c
Core 3: 56c

Cores in SpeedFan:
Core 0: 50c
Core 1: 49c
Core 2: 46c
Core 3: 46c

Overall, the IC DIamond TIM seems to have lowered my CPU temps by a range of 3-9c depending on the cores. In my CPU, Cores 0 and 1 run hotter and also noticed the best results while Cores 2 and 3 run cooler and didn't drop as much. In terms of performance compared to my Zalman TIM, its awesome and I would probably buy this over most other brands since I do tend to overclock.

As said before by others, idle is not as big a concern as load temps. And the games I play all have multicore support enabled so this TIM will really help lower the temp while doing that. That said, I do live in Arizona, Tucson to be exact where its May and soon to be 100+ every day. I do keep my house at about 78F all the time though.

If you need any more data from me I will be more than happy to provide it and thanks for including me in your test.
May 10, 2010 12:43:27 AM

I'm still confused as to why I shaved 9c of Load and Idle is the same!
a b à CPUs
May 10, 2010 12:47:46 AM

I'm going to go ahead and say that you applied your AS5 poorly on your CPU Jimmy, there is no way any TIM will make that large of a difference.
May 10, 2010 12:52:22 AM

AMW1011 said:
I'm going to go ahead and say that you applied your AS5 poorly on your CPU Jimmy, there is no way any TIM will make that large of a difference.


I shaved 9C of mine.
May 10, 2010 12:54:12 AM

cant wait to get this TIM, seems to be very good :) 
May 10, 2010 1:02:47 AM

Yep.

It's good to the point where it may even allow an extra 100mhz or so out of an OC.
May 10, 2010 1:08:13 AM

^ I don"t own any AS5.

I own some 5 year old Lantech grease I got for 2$ at a flea market years ago.

Wich woudl explain the 9C diffrence...
May 10, 2010 1:21:11 AM

AMW1011 said:
Honestly, I noticed a 2-5c temperature decrease across all four cores of my i5 750 recently, I double checked by reapplying both, between AS5 and AC MX-2, so in light of the price difference I would say that ICD is just hyped. I was really surprised at how well the MX-2 performed, and it is very easy to spread with a much better consistency as opposed to AS5.

Edit: I would like to add that I have perfected applying TIM to my Xigmatek HDT-s1283, because I bought it when HDT designs were still brand new and no one knew how to apply TIM. I've applied and reapplied so much TIM to this damn heatsink it is ridiculous.

For anyone wanting to know, the best way is to get a razor and fill in the gaps between the heatpipes and the aluminum base until it is smooth. Now take a almost imperceptible amount out so there is a SLIGHT gap between the pipes and the base. Now apply a thin line of TIM about an inch to an inch and an eighth on each heat pipe. they should be no thinner than a 0.9mm piece of graphite for a mechanical pencil, but they shouldn't be much thicker either.


I really like the berserker cat

Hype? Well this is in part a promotional giveaway where we make our best case and have users test/compare with their own compound of choice. We put our best foot forward which Is a kind of Hype but the users do test on their own and make their own determination, they may not like the cost or thickness of the paste or care much about the performance Delta and I have no control there on user results and opinions they are what they are.

Application - Contact - Pressure


There are 3 things that determine whether you get the most out of a thermal compound.

Application - This is about the only thing that's an easy control in testing or in use. Users on other giveaway's developed our application method across multiple forums as an optimal method. I cringe when I see people doing lines, dots,,credit cards, grains of rice etc. Empirically our application method has proved out the best for high viscosity compound as IC Diamond. The X application method that some people use works great but I generally do not recommend it as it tends to use to much/wastes compound.

Your HDT method of application is one of the better descriptions I have read and this is a gap in our suggested application and we will study it some more and mabe add it to our application page.

Contact - Pressure - This is more subjective then anything else. All thermal compounds change performance on a pressure curve, the more the better. When you mount a sink are you at 30 psi or 60? If you tighten the 30psi down to improve performance are you @ 35 psi or 60psi? are you even in the optimal pressure range for the compound? How's your contact? if you've lapped it are you contacting on 50% of the mating surfaces 80%? or 20%?

This is why user tests often come out so different and are anecdotal, a comparison of paste A to paste B on two different systems where you do not know what the primary components of performance are can span several degrees and generally cover the entire range of possible temperatures.

Most experienced users understand this instinctively and on the forums the most recommended solutions to troubleshoot thermal problems are Application - Contact - Pressure

I advise as just good practice to be conscious of pitfalls in testing in all the giveaways in order that people get the most out of the experience.

Some users test results on MX2 to date from multiple forum giveaway's



a b à CPUs
May 10, 2010 1:25:37 AM

Ah yes, both of you are using pretty poor thermal paste. So a 2-5c difference from AS5 is expected. I don't see this being much better than OCZ Freeze, Tuniq TX-2, or Arctic Cooling MX-2.

Perhaps the PR guy can show us some benchmarks, I can't find any comparing it to the modern champs listed above.
a b à CPUs
May 10, 2010 1:35:45 AM

IC Diamond said:
I really like the berserker cat

Hype? Well this is in part a promotional giveaway where we make our best case and have users test/compare with their own compound of choice. We put our best foot forward which Is a kind of Hype but the users do test on their own and make their own determination, they may not like the cost or thickness of the paste or care much about the performance Delta and I have no control there on user results and opinions they are what they are.

Application - Contact - Pressure


There are 3 things that determine whether you get the most out of a thermal compound.

Application - This is about the only thing that's an easy control in testing or in use. Users on other giveaway's developed our application method across multiple forums as an optimal method. I cringe when I see people doing lines, dots,,credit cards, grains of rice etc. Empirically our application method has proved out the best for high viscosity compound as IC Diamond. The X application method that some people use works great but I generally do not recommend it as it tends to use to much/wastes compound.

Your HDT method of application is one of the better descriptions I have read and this is a gap in our suggested application and we will study it some more and mabe add it to our application page.

Contact - Pressure - This is more subjective then anything else. All thermal compounds change performance on a pressure curve, the more the better. When you mount a sink are you at 30 psi or 60? If you tighten the 30psi down to improve performance are you @ 35 psi or 60psi? are you even in the optimal pressure range for the compound? How's your contact? if you've lapped it are you contacting on 50% of the mating surfaces 80%? or 20%?

This is why user tests often come out so different and are anecdotal, a comparison of paste A to paste B on two different systems where you do not know what the primary components of performance are can span several degrees and generally cover the entire range of possible temperatures.

Most experienced users understand this instinctively and on the forums the most recommended solutions to troubleshoot thermal problems are Application - Contact - Pressure

I advise as just good practice to be conscious of pitfalls in testing in all the giveaways in order that people get the most out of the experience.

Some users test results on MX2 to date from multiple forum giveaway's

http://innovationcooling.com/PreliminaryMultiForumTestResults40U.png


Well, I generally dislike PRs on forums, but that was about the best summary of thermal paste application I may have ever read. It is also very fair and honest, you definitely get points in my book for that.

I have used OCZ Freeze before, which is very thick so it should be pretty comparable. I found that results were very much dependent on the amount applied, more so than any other TIM I've used, and pressure spreading is the only real way so I can easily agree with that. I wish I could comment on the OCZ Freeze's application to HDT coolers, but it was only used on regular coolers, Arctic Cooler Freezer Pros to be exact, before I lost it with in a week or so. I would remind you that MX-2 is very easy to work with and not nearly as thick as OCZ Freeze, so I cannot be certain my methods would work for it, though I don't see why they would not. I wish I had some OCZ Freeze to test, but alas...

Anyway, I am curious to see how well this IC Diamond stuff does.

The graph you posted, am I to understand that it is up against MX-2 and IC Diamond came out to be ~3c cooler? It is a confusing graph, because it looks to say negative 3.297c, which either means it is 3.297c inferior, meaning hotter, or cooler. Also, I will look on your website for a bit more context of that graph, or perhaps you could link me to the forum post?
May 10, 2010 1:38:35 AM

Yeah.

Normally I go out of my way to Flame and Troll Sponsers when they creep intto the Fourms

(Trolled Cyber power extensivly, and my And my freind RazbeeryBandit rape the Palit guy on a regular basis)

But you guys might be the one tom's sponser that doesn"t blow.
a b à CPUs
May 10, 2010 1:39:17 AM

IC Diamond said:
I cringe when I see people doing lines

You go with what has worked for you.
For some reason ( most likely user error ) I was getting a blob on either side of center when using the pea method with the AS5 ( never happened before, thought the chip might be bowed ) so I switched to the line and got a better app., from that I decided to use the same method when applying your product ( we saw how that turned out ).

Your HDT method of application is one of the better descriptions I have read and this is a gap in our suggested application and we will study it some more and mabe add it to our application page.
said:
Your HDT method of application is one of the better descriptions I have read and this is a gap in our suggested application and we will study it some more and mabe add it to our application page.

This method was posted here several months prior to AMW joining
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/252942-29-some-notes-...
May 10, 2010 1:49:04 AM

I am sure we will have some negative data also before we hit the end of the testing.

Large delta's can occur for allot of reasons - a good mount vs a bad mount, previous compound is in the process failing, smaller die as in the laptops with higher heatflux's. People get what they get I do not question anybody test I am looking for the overall numbers

Just anecdotally I was playing around with one of the brush on compounds that dry to a powder and bumped the sink accidentally and the temp went up instantly 5c. I had disturbed the contact and blown the mount which can happen with any paste with varying degrees of force.

A nod to AMW1011 - Thermal compounds have been under intense development for 20 years with the best minds in the industry working on it and we are at a point of diminishing returns and in the next year or so I would not be surprised to have several compounds all within a degree or two of physical limits. What's hard to do is have high performance in combination with high reliability which is why our fastest growing market is in high thermal stress environments like notebooks and mission critical OEM applications.

a b à CPUs
May 10, 2010 1:51:14 AM

I've been reading up in the fourms:
http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showthread.php?t=7187...

I see a lot of posts where the IC Diamond is neck and neck with the AS5, and some where it is a good deal better.

It seems to me that this is a flawed analysis because a lot of people are using the Intel push pins on their heatsinks, which skew the results because of how seemingly random the pressure is.

Another problem I'm seeing is the lack of trials. Thermal paste application is not an exact science and takes time and practice for each thermal paste used, and a very thick thermal paste like the IC Diamond is going to take some real practice to master for those used to AS5 or less thick TIM. They should be applied three times each and compared that way, it doesn't seem like anyone is willing to explore deviations or illogical results with their tests.

I'll keep reading, but I am not drawing any clear conclusions yet, the data seems too scattered.
a b à CPUs
May 10, 2010 1:55:49 AM

IC Diamond said:

A nod to AMW1011 - Thermal compounds have been under intense development for 20 years with the best minds in the industry working on it and we are at a point of diminishing returns. What's hard to do is have high performance in combination with high reliability which is why our fastest growing market is in high thermal stress environments like notebooks and mission critical OEM applications.


One of the biggest bottlenecks of mobile computing is heat. If the components are hot, they need that heat to be dissipated more aggressively, which leads to a larger power draw, more space is taken up, and things get louder. Also, chips tend to be more energy efficient under a certain temperature, which is irrelevant in the desktop and notebook markets, but in the UMPC market .01w is huge.
a b à CPUs
May 10, 2010 1:57:34 AM

delluser1 said:

This method was posted here several months prior to AMW joining
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/252942-29-some-notes-...


I was one of the first who recommended the line method, just not on here. The fill-in method was discovered by a totally different source, someone on another forum cleaned his Xigy off poorly and left TIM in the crevices and noticed a thermal improvement, so it caught fire.

Edit as for the forum this amuses me:
http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showpost.php?p=948145...

Quote:
ambient ~20

Original

Stock Intel Thermal paste

cpu fan @ 2000rpm

load

80
79
77
75

idle

55
55
51
49

ICD 7

(fan wouldnt spin above 1800rpm)

load

69
69
66
66

idle
48
49
45
44

just for fun, load under linpack after 7/10 trials
73
73
70
70
a b à CPUs
May 10, 2010 2:15:19 AM

Well this is disappointing, in two large threads full of results, I can't find one good test with an HDT cooler. I am wondering how well such a thick TIM will work with such a tricky application method such as that of an HDT heatsink.

Perhaps if I can convince the GF to let me I'll buy some and do my own testing, but she is pretty angry at the $100 headphones I just bought, so no promises. :D 
a b à CPUs
May 10, 2010 2:28:22 AM

AMW1011 said:
I've been reading up in the fourms:
http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showthread.php?t=7187...

I see a lot of posts where the IC Diamond is neck and neck with the AS5, and some where it is a good deal better.

It seems to me that this is a flawed analysis because a lot of people are using the Intel push pins on their heatsinks, which skew the results because of how seemingly random the pressure is.

Another problem I'm seeing is the lack of trials. Thermal paste application is not an exact science and takes time and practice for each thermal paste used, and a very thick thermal paste like the IC Diamond is going to take some real practice to master for those used to AS5 or less thick TIM. They should be applied three times each and compared that way, it doesn't seem like anyone is willing to explore deviations or illogical results with their tests.

I'll keep reading, but I am not drawing any clear conclusions yet, the data seems too scattered.

:)  Calm down Ralph Nader, your starting to go off. Its not practical to suggest people tear down and reapply SIX times. Results are coming in from hundreds of users, ease of application, consistent results can be considered a positive or a negative of a tim. Is the viscosity, good or bad ? This can be partly shown in the results. Attempting to compensate for various tims is not scientific either. Also its not just a direct comparison to AS5.
I know you mean well, just countering some of your logic.
a b à CPUs
May 10, 2010 2:32:54 AM

I'm not saying that the results are useless, I'm just seeing a lot of poor results that are likely taken into account. Like a guy using a push pin system to spread a TIM, whose makes specifically state that there needs to be a lot of pressure.

I understand where you are coming from, I would just do things differently I suppose.

Also, if you are GIVEN a product to review, is tearing down your system 6 times really that much of a problem? Even if it is a $10 item.
May 10, 2010 2:46:14 AM

AMW1011 said:
I've been reading up in the fourms:
http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showthread.php?t=7187...

I see a lot of posts where the IC Diamond is neck and neck with the AS5, and some where it is a good deal better.

It seems to me that this is a flawed analysis because a lot of people are using the Intel push pins on their heatsinks, which skew the results because of how seemingly random the pressure is.

Another problem I'm seeing is the lack of trials. Thermal paste application is not an exact science and takes time and practice for each thermal paste used, and a very thick thermal paste like the IC Diamond is going to take some real practice to master for those used to AS5 or less thick TIM. They should be applied three times each and compared that way, it doesn't seem like anyone is willing to explore deviations or illogical results with their tests.

I'll keep reading, but I am not drawing any clear conclusions yet, the data seems too scattered.



Well, we are flawed in a number of respects in this format it is hard to maintain controls getting forum users to do more detail is like herding cats. I tried on a couple of giveaway's to get people to record their before and after fans speeds with the idea it would be favorable to the results but only 1 in 10 reported. Averaging user results filters out some of the biases and probably adds some also.

The Australian giveaway while having the largest increases in performance also had the largest negative numbers of any group so the overall average fall pretty well in the mid-range of the 11 test groups.

To be fair to the MX people they have a new compound out that I have tested and is an improvement over the MX2.

The MX2 results were in the later giveaway's probably concentrated OCN, hardware Canucks, maybe Australia and a couple of others. it was introduced in the middle of the giveaway's and now they already have a new compound. Like I said I would not be surprised a good number at the physical limit in the next year or two.

The averaging does work for me. (I am the biased manufacturer) on some test group samples I normalized the power and compared it to my own lab tests and found they agree to within a couple of degrees. But it does not really matter what I test it is what the boots on the ground user sees at his desktop. Is it better or worse? is it worth the cost? If we are lucky they will like it.

Just to note I do not manipulate the data in any way other than a raw average from the raw data. I post all data acquired in an organized format and anybody has the opportunity to correct any mistakes or make any adjustments they see fit before any final result is posted.
a c 127 à CPUs
May 10, 2010 2:51:50 AM

AMW1011 said:
I've been reading up in the fourms:
http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showthread.php?t=7187...

I see a lot of posts where the IC Diamond is neck and neck with the AS5, and some where it is a good deal better.

It seems to me that this is a flawed analysis because a lot of people are using the Intel push pins on their heatsinks, which skew the results because of how seemingly random the pressure is.

Another problem I'm seeing is the lack of trials. Thermal paste application is not an exact science and takes time and practice for each thermal paste used, and a very thick thermal paste like the IC Diamond is going to take some real practice to master for those used to AS5 or less thick TIM. They should be applied three times each and compared that way, it doesn't seem like anyone is willing to explore deviations or illogical results with their tests.

I'll keep reading, but I am not drawing any clear conclusions yet, the data seems too scattered.


This is true. And true for any aftermarket HSFs that use the pushpin system.

I think for a reall test setup, we need people who use only ones that mount to a bracket that gives the same, even pressure all the time.
May 10, 2010 2:52:53 AM

AMW1011 said:
Well this is disappointing, in two large threads full of results, I can't find one good test with an HDT cooler. I am wondering how well such a thick TIM will work with such a tricky application method such as that of an HDT heatsink.

Perhaps if I can convince the GF to let me I'll buy some and do my own testing, but she is pretty angry at the $100 headphones I just bought, so no promises. :D 


Here is one HDT test
a b à CPUs
May 10, 2010 3:38:04 AM

IC Diamond said:
Here is one HDT test


Well I'm sold, he used a real HDT cooler with a good application method and with a bolt through bracket. AS Ceramique, is only slightly behind MX-2 as well.

That said, I am quite unhappy about the amount provided in that tube, he used 1/3 on a single application, I can get 10-12 out of a tube of small AS5. I guess the extra cost of the $20 4.8g tube is off-set by the performance, and its still only $20 after all.

IC Diamond, if I may, please try to be a bit more honest about what is in the tube. It will only hurt you in the long run, the cost isn't that bad even for the 4.8g, and most people won't care when they see the word "diamond". But if they get a larger tube and only 1/8 of it has TIM in it and they need to apply some thermal paste and they are oblivious to the fact that the large tube is empty after 2-4 uses, they are going to get angry, and for good reason. Just some food for thought.

Look:

Compared to


As for the MX-3, it really isn't all that much better than the MX-2, about 1-2c. Your IC Diamond seems to be a bit better, so I suppose it will be my next TIM purchase.
a c 133 à CPUs
May 10, 2010 3:56:30 AM

People always forget how much ambient temps affect the performance if you do a base line and the ambient is 27C and then you take it apart an apply according to instruction but your ambients go uo 4 or 5 degrees of course you will see bad results. PT properly test you must control the ambient temps as much as possible to keep the results rel relevant.
May 10, 2010 4:03:02 AM

We are doing a custom tube with a thinner barrel as all dispensing tips are standardized off the shelf for needles and the viscosity is too high for the opening so we opened the tip from 2mm to 3.5 so the paste will flow smoothly with little effort.

Material fixed costs are high and margins are slim but we are cutting costs doing less outsourcing and as volume increases we can negotiate better material pricing. we have already reduced some pricing for some our high volume users

7 carat gets you 3-4 apps per tube 24 12-14.

new ceramic compound we are coming out with will be a degree or 2 less than ICD performance wise @ 100 Watts and will have same volume as ICD24 but it is expected to retail at around a MSRP of $6.99 - something for the white box or mom's PC

on compounds comparisons should be made in volume rather than weight - i.e.diamond weight is not the same as a metal weighted compound
May 10, 2010 4:13:42 AM

saaiello said:
People always forget how much ambient temps affect the performance if you do a base line and the ambient is 27C and then you take it apart an apply according to instruction but your ambients go uo 4 or 5 degrees of course you will see bad results. PT properly test you must control the ambient temps as much as possible to keep the results rel relevant.


Good point - Lots happens at the micro level with ambient 's - HVAC cycles a few degrees, morning temp vs afternoon temp can be 10 C or more changing a couple of degrees per hour. Just standing next to open board on a desktop and breathing on it can raise temps a degree or two. moving a box from floor to desk can be worth a couple of degrees on the room gradient
a b à CPUs
May 10, 2010 5:14:17 AM

saaiello said:
People always forget how much ambient temps affect the performance if you do a base line and the ambient is 27C and then you take it apart an apply according to instruction but your ambients go uo 4 or 5 degrees of course you will see bad results. PT properly test you must control the ambient temps as much as possible to keep the results rel relevant.


You could post results as Delta to Ambient. As long as you keep a tab on the ambient temp for each run then you should be fine.

IC Diamond said:
We are doing a custom tube with a thinner barrel as all dispensing tips are standardized off the shelf for needles and the viscosity is too high for the opening so we opened the tip from 2mm to 3.5 so the paste will flow smoothly with little effort.


Yea, you guys should have tried the old tubes. I thought I was going to break it just getting the stuff out :o 
a c 127 à CPUs
May 10, 2010 8:13:47 AM

IC Diamond said:
Good point - Lots happens at the micro level with ambient 's - HVAC cycles a few degrees, morning temp vs afternoon temp can be 10 C or more changing a couple of degrees per hour. Just standing next to open board on a desktop and breathing on it can raise temps a degree or two. moving a box from floor to desk can be worth a couple of degrees on the room gradient


Yep. Thats why I try to keep my ambient the same and it was 78F when I tested my old stuff anf 78F when I tested the ICD. I also have it about 3 feet off the ground since I have 3 cats and don't want their fur in my case.

In terms of the TIM, I like it. Its pretty good and price wise seems fine to me. I will retest the temps in a few days to compare it after it has had time to sit and see if it makes even more of a difference.

As for getting the stuff out, it was a bit harder than my AS5 or the Zalman TIM (the Zalman stuff was cake) but nothing extreme. The consitency was greater than both AS5 and the Zalman TIM.

I do have a older machine running AS5 thats probably been in it for 5 years or so. I might just have to test it against this stuff to see if it gives some decent results compared to a well cured AS5.
a b à CPUs
May 10, 2010 8:30:11 AM

jimmysmitty said:
As for getting the stuff out, it was a bit harder than my AS5 or the Zalman TIM (the Zalman stuff was cake) but nothing extreme. The consitency was greater than both AS5 and the Zalman TIM.

That's because of the wider tip. The older one was smaller and I thought it was dried up inside because I couldn't get the TIM to come out without causing the plunger to bend slightly under the excessive force. It's a good thing they changed it.
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