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Zip 250 (IDE) not recognized in XP

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March 17, 2012 7:23:47 AM

Needed to upgrade my motherboard. I selected a simple Biostar G31-M4.

My previous board, a Gigabyte 8VM533M-RZ, didn't have Sata ports.

I connected the HD (O/S Windows XP Pro w/SP3) and CD (master and slave) to the new Biostar via the IDE cable. However, when I connected the internal Iomega Zip 250 drive to the board via the Sata port, the system doesn't recognize the device.

I've tried two different converters: (1) SIIG Sata-to-IDE Adapter, and the (2) Vantec IDE to SATA Converter.

I altered options in the BIOS, changed the jumper settings on the Zip, and re-installed drivers. Also, made certain all the new drivers for the board were installed, too. So far, nothing has worked.

Should I try an IDE Cable with 3-connectors? Any suggestions?

Thank you, in advance.

~James

More about : zip 250 ide recognized

a c 261 G Storage
March 17, 2012 12:38:16 PM

Ide cables only support two devices. The zip drive works on the ide cable if you put it instead of the CD drive? Maybe the CD drive works on the converter.
IDE SATA adapters can be trouble some so the simple solution would be a SATA CD/DVD drive if the zip works on the ide cable http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Otherwise it is in your settings.
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a b G Storage
March 17, 2012 1:24:27 PM

This is because XP does not contain native support for SATA devices, XP came out way before the SATA interface came to be common. Try setting the SATA port to "IDE" or "Native" mode BIOS and see if it will work then. Or, at your choice, you can install the SATA drivers from your motherboard DVD to get XP to work with your SATA ports.
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March 18, 2012 3:36:06 PM

Thank you both for offering very good information and suggestions.

I switched the Zip to the IDE and the CD to the SATA adapter.

The GOOD news is that the BIOS recognizes the CD on the SATA port using the IDE/SATA adapter.
The BAD news is that XP doesn't recognize the CD on the SATA port.

I'm assuming it was because of the lack of drivers for the CD/SATA port?

I downloaded the updated BIOS and Chipset drivers for the board, just hoping that would help... no change.

I went to the LG website (maker of my CD) but the model isn't even listed on their product list any longer.

I was even reaching and tried scanner the registry with "Wise Registry Cleaner," but that didn't help either.

...looks like I'll need to invest in a new CD writer.

Please forward any other suggestions.

Thank you for your help.
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a c 342 G Storage
March 18, 2012 7:20:13 PM

Check again jitpublisher's point. XP does NOT have "built-in" knowledge (a driver) of SATA devices. So, assuming your adapter makes the IDE optical unit appear to be a valid SATA device, the BIOS will recognize it (you say it does), but XP will NOT. What to do?

1. IF you intend to use the adapted device (in this case, the CD unit) ONLY for reading and writing AFTER Win XP has loaded, you need to install in XP (while it is running) the SATA port device driver for your mobo. That should be on the CD that came with your mobo. In this way XP can learn how to use a SATA device. Then you can set the SATA Port Mode to SATA or AHCI and use whatever device is connected there as a SATA device. The LIMIT of this is that you cannot BOOT from this device. That is because Win XP MUST boot from some non-SATA device first, and in the process access the boot device to load the SATA device Driver before it can use that unit. Of course, if this works, one way to re-arrange is to have your CD back on the IDE port, and the Zip drive on the SATA adapter, since you're more likely to want to boot from the optical drive than from the Zip drive.

2. IF you intend to boot from the CD unit, you can try the work-around built into most mobos for the combination of XP and SATA. Go to where the SATA ports are configured, and look for a line about SATA Port Mode. Set that to IDE (or PATA) Emulation. This sets the BIOS to intervene and make the actual SATA device appear to the OS (Win XP) as a plain old IDE device which it DOES know how to use without added drivers. It works just fine for true SATA HDD's, so maybe it will work for a CD using an adapter such as you have. Doing this eliminates a couple of handy (but not necessary) features of a true AHCI device, but I think they do not matter at all for optical drives. In this case you do NOT need to install the SATA device driver in Win XP - as far as it knows, that CD device is behaving as an IDE unit and it does not need and driver for that.
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a c 261 G Storage
March 18, 2012 8:08:45 PM

All motherboard drivers installed?
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March 18, 2012 9:59:49 PM

Thank you for making great points, Paperdoc. I should have realized some of those limitations. I plan on switching the CD back to IDE and Zip to SATA tomorrow morning. I'll keep you posted.

Yes, Rolli59... I installed all drivers from CD and added any updates from website. Thank you for asking.

I sincerely appreciate all of you sharing your ideas. Thank you!
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March 28, 2012 6:08:19 AM

Good morning, everyone.

Forgive the delay in my reply, but it's been a busy week.

Ok... I tried two configurations:

1a) I reconnected the HD to the SATA port (using the IDE adapter, of course)
1b) CD ROM and ZIP on IDE

&

2a) HD & CD ROM on IDE (master & slave)
2b) Zip on SATA port (using the IDE adapter)


Each configuration is recognized in BIOS but not in WinXP Pro.

I even tried (with each configuration) to re-install WinXP from the original CD, and had chosen the 'Repair' install option.

I've invested way too much time into this. Maybe I'm not seeing the forest for the trees, but I'm out of ideas.

Thanks again for everyone's help.
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a c 342 G Storage
March 29, 2012 1:09:06 AM

When you say, "recognized in BIOS but not in Win XP Pro", I am assuming you mean that ONLY the device connected via the adapter to a SATA port is not being recognized. Is that correct?

First, I forgot to mention one thing previously. Check the adapter's manual carefully - what does it say about setting the jumper on the IDE device it is used with? Basically, this adapter creates a type of IDE port, so the device's jumper MUST be set correctly. In most cases, I believe it must be set to be this port's MASTER. If the device has different types of "Master" setting, then probably it should be the "Master with no Slave Present".

Next, let's try something that really ought to work, and make it the simplest arrangement. Set up with the HDD as IDE Master and CD as IDE Slave. (I believe your postings say this much works OK.) Set the Zip drive's jumper to Master and connect it to the adapter and then to the SATA port. Of course, the Zip drive also will need a power supply connection - maybe through the adapter, depends on how that is built. Boot into BIOS Setup and set the SATA Port Mode to Native SATA or AHCI; Save and Exit to complete the boot into Win XP Pro. Now Install in XP Pro the SATA (or AHCI) driver from the CD that came with your mobo, or get it from the Biostar website. Reboot. Win XP should be able to deal with the SATA device since you have given it the required SATA device driver to use after it has booted.

In this structure, you will not be able to boot from the Zip drive, but otherwise it ought to be fully accessible. Does that work?
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April 9, 2012 2:40:35 PM

Forgive me for the delay in replying... working full time and caring for elderly parents... not enough hours in the day.

@Rolli59:

Great idea... when I read your suggestion, I kicked myself because I should have known enough to check 'Disk Management.' Alas, all that appears is the HD & CD Rom.

@Paperdoc:

[When you say, "recognized in BIOS but not in Win XP Pro", I am assuming you mean that ONLY the device connected via the adapter to a SATA port is not being recognized. Is that correct?]
- Yes, you are correct in your assumption.

Wow... you've made great suggestions... I sincerely appreciate your help.

1st: I checked the manual for the "SIIG SATA-to-IDE Adapter" but there was no mention of setting the jumpers on the IDE device.

2nd: I did keep the config of HD (IDE Master) and CD ROM (IDE Slave). I confirmed the Zip's jumper was set to Master (silly question, but won't the system see two 'Master' devices and, as a result, may cause a conflict?) ... and confirmed device seen in BIOS.

Thank you for explaining what to look for why searching for the SATA drivers, I DID find the AHCI files on the CD that came with the board, however... two questions:

a) I searched through Device Manager, but could not find the SATA ports listed (to update drivers).
b) The drivers are listed under the following file structure: D:\Driver\Chipset\Intel\SATA ... there are four sub directories: ICH7, ICH8, ICH9 and ICH10.

ICH10 has an "EXE" but the install processes cancels due to "PC not meeting the minimal requirements."

Is there another way to install?

Thanks for your time and patience.






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a b G Storage
April 9, 2012 2:54:36 PM

Me thinks you are making this too hard! On your motherboard CD/DVD there will be an install program that will install everything you need. You just need to run it, that is it. New motherboard means you need to reinstall XP (or at least a repair install) and then you insert this disk and run the complete install program for all the motherboard drivers. Make sure your SATA ports are all enabled in the BIOS first.
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April 9, 2012 4:59:52 PM

Yes, thank you... did all of that already.

Repair install of XP ... installed drivers from motherboard CD ... installed updated drivers from website.

When all else failed, I began this thread.
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a b G Storage
April 9, 2012 5:10:54 PM

Hemingway said:
Yes, thank you... did all of that already.

Repair install of XP ... installed drivers from motherboard CD ... installed updated drivers from website.

When all else failed, I began this thread.



Ah, okay. Well, I'll research and see if I can come up with anything else, its got to be something right under our noses.
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April 9, 2012 10:38:32 PM

Thank you, jitpublisher.

I had contacted Biostar (motherboard Manufacturer) again for more info, and this is what they supplied:


RE: << BIOSTAR Technical Support Request FORM >>
From: Support <support@biostar-usa.com> Hide

G31-M4 comes with the Intel ICH7 Southbridge.

You will need to install SATA drivers to see SATA devices (not required on Windows XP SP2 or SP3).

As far as we know, the SATA drivers can only be installed during the Windows installation process (clean install; not repair).

support@biostar-usa.com


...not the answer I wanted ... I can't believe there's not another way.


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April 10, 2012 6:01:39 AM

Found this last night... haven't tried it yet.

Jack - Jan 5, 2010 12:23pm GMT
Hi,
This error raises because your WinXp Cd has not this driver.
If you are going to install WinXp on a Desktop, you can give the Sata driver by means of a Floppy when installing wizard ask you "Press F6 if you need to install a third party SCSI or RAID driver...".


Found this at...

http://en.kioskea.net/forum/affich-29801-i-need-sata-dr...


...I'll keep you posted.
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Best solution

a c 342 G Storage
April 10, 2012 5:09:15 PM

First, on the setting two devices to "Master"...:

Setting jumper(s) to the Master or Slave position is relevant only to the particular IDE port they are connected to. Any IDE port MUST have a Master device to function; if there is a second device on the shared port / cable, then it must be the Slave. These designations only establish the unique identities of the devices sharing the IDE channel. They do NOT have any meaning for the machine as a whole - there is no such thing as a "Master Drive" for the whole computer. Most computers DO have one Boot Drive that contains the OS (some can have more than one), and many years ago by default this was the Master device on the first IDE channel. But that convention is long gone, replaced by the ability to specify in BIOS Setup exactly which device is the boot device - in fact, now one specifies a priority sequence of potential boot devices. So, having Master devices on more than one IDE channel is NOT confusing - in fact, it is necessary for the IDE channels to work.

Basically, the adapter you are using is supposed to use a SATA port to create an IDE port. On the IDE side (where you connect your IDE device like the Zip drive), the cabling and the devices need to be set up as normal IDE devices. In most cases, the adapter only supports ONE attached device, however, and that usually means that it must have its jumper set to be the Master. Some adapters may be different, which is why I suggested checking for instructions on this point.

On the SATA side, where the adapter connects to your mobo SATA port, the adapter/IDE device combo appears to be a SATA device as far as the mobo is concerned. Thus the OS needs a driver to know how to deal with the device on this port. Win Vista and Win 7 have such device drivers "built in". But Win XP does not, so the driver must be installed.

There are TWO ways that a device driver can be installed in Win XP. The straightforward way is to install it after Win XP is up and running. After this is done, the driver is located on your boot drive, and can be loaded from there by Win XP AFTER it has done most of its normal loading process. So it must be located on a device that Win XP can already use due to its own "built-in" drivers, because the device can't be used until the driver is loaded. The driver you are installing can be located just about anywhere because you can tell Win XP where to look for it (that means you need to know where it is). Generally you do this from Device Manager by right-clicking on the device in the list and choosing to install or update the driver for it. But what if you don't have the device in the list? This can happen if there never was such a device earlier so that Win XP could find it, and this is probably your case - up until you tried connecting the adapter and Zip drive, there was NO SATA device in the machine. So what to do? Make sure the adapter and Zip drive are attached with power supplied to it/them. Then make sure in BIOS that the SATA port is Enabled and that the Zip drive is detected properly. Then let Win XP boot, and go into Device Manager. In there RIGHT-click on the top level and choose to Scan for Hardware Changes. This will force it to go through all the connected hardware devices and find the SATA device that did not exist before. Then you can choose it and use the option to update or install the SATA device driver. (It is even possible that the Scan process will automatically search for and find the SATA driver on your C: drive.) If it asks you for the location of the driver, make sure your mobo CD is in the optical drive and direct Win XP to look at the right subdirectory of that disk to find the driver required. According to BioStar your system has the ICH7 Southbridge, so that's the driver you need. (However, sometimes the driver appears to be in a subdirectory above this, because that's where a file is located to direct Win XP exactly which driver to use.) Let Win XP install that SATA driver, then back out of Device Manager and reboot to ensure it's complete. Now see if the Zip drive appears in My Computer.

The second major way to install a driver in Win XP is what BioStar's Tech Support told you they thought is the only way, and they are wrong there. This method is specifically for installing a device driver as a "built-in" component of Win XP so that the device CAN be used as a BOOT DEVICE. As long as you are not planning to use the Zip drive and adapter for booting from, you don't need to do this. This process requires that the drive be located on a floppy diskette in a floppy drive, and can only be done at the time that Win XP is being installed - it can't be added in later. It uses a feature that has been a part of Windows Install routines for a long time. Early in the Install process there is a prompt to hit the F6 key if you want to install a device driver that Windows does not have already (such as a SCSI device or a RAID system), and the new SATA devices fall into this category for Win XP. If you ignore this prompt, after a wait the Install routine will proceed without it. But if you hit F6, you get to install any driver you like from a floppy disk only - you even get a chance to install more than one - before returning to the main routine. The driver you install in this way becomes one of the first things the Windows loads in its sequence at boot time, and hence allows the rest of the boot process to use that device to read and boot from.

So, with your devices hooked up as you have them now, I think (HDD as IDE Master, optical as IDE Slave, and Zip as Master on the adapter connected to a SATA port), I suggest you check the BIOS as outlined above to be sure the Zip is detected there, then let Win XP boot. Go though Device Manager to force it to Scan for a new device (the SATA port), then load the driver for it, back out and reboot. That should get the Zip drive working unless there is something odd about it. You should NOT need to re-install Win XP and use the floppy disk and F6 route (unless you want to use the Zip unit as a boot device).

If that does not work, I have one other idea, but I really doubt this is involved. Some early SATA port controllers (and it don't think Intel was among them) could not negotiate properly with later SATA II (more properly SATA 3.0 Gb/s) drives at start-up, and they could not "talk" to each other. Drive makers provided a cure for this by having a jumper setting on SATA II HDD units that forced them to fall back to the slower SATA 1.5 Gb/s communication rate. There is no such jumper setting on your IDE Zip unit. BUT maybe there is such an adjustment possible for the adapter you are using. You'd have to contact the adapter maker for this info. But as I said, I really doubt you need this.
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April 11, 2012 7:02:50 AM

Good morning, Paperdoc.

..."Houston, the eagle has landed."


Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions and thoroughly explain the different scenarios. This has been quite an education.

I am happy to report that I now have communication with the Zip drive!

Words cannot express my sincerely appreciation and gratitude for your patience and courtesy.

Thank you ALL for sacrificing your time and offering your opinions and solutions.

I hope to be able to offer my assistance in the future.

All the best !
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April 11, 2012 7:03:32 AM

Best answer selected by Hemingway.
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a c 342 G Storage
April 11, 2012 2:09:25 PM

Hurray for success! And thanks for the BA.
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