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ATI not supporting new AGP Radeon drivers

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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February 20, 2010 12:35:28 AM

ATI / AMD is not supporting new drivers for its Radeon AGP cards.

ATI / AMD is not providing new working install packages for its Radeon AGP cards.

So if you want your AGP card to support new games, or to have fixes for the operating system you are using, you should by a card made by the other major video chip maker.

The only drivers that will work are the ones on the install disk.

If you have one of these cards, and think you have been updating the drivers, check the version numbers. In my case it appears silent errors have kept the drivers from updating. With the 10.1 or 10.2 update packages, the errors now cause messages, so you should notice if you look.

New AGP drivers are provided on a Hotfix and which ATI says is beta and not supported. When a problem is reported with the drivers, as I have done, ATI / AMD is refusing to look at it or fix it on the basis of the driver being beta.

You can install updates to the Catalyst Control Center, but (a) It is the driver that matters most, (b) ATI recommends you keep the CCC and the driver insync, use the same install package for both.

I want to make ATI's position clear in as fair a way as possible.

So here is their position in their own words:

=================

Dear Customer,

Your service request : SR #{ticketno:[8200278391]} has been reviewed and updated.

Response and Service Request History:

Just so we are clear...the porducts are not BETA...the drivers for them are. They should work fine with the drivers that come on the CD...but should updated drivers be needed...then we have made functioning drivers.

In order to update this service request, please respond, leaving the service request reference intact.

Best regards,

AMD Global Customer Care
---------------------------
Okay, then I will let retailers of the cards know that they products they are selling are BETA and that the chipmaker does not stand behind them.

Keith
Winnipeg, Canada
---------------------------

Dear Customer,

Your service request : SR #{ticketno:[8200278391]} has been reviewed and updated.

Response and Service Request History:

So the install package script must have an error that cause the install to abort with the message "Driver Install: the driver package is not signed".

> That is known to happen. The drivers have NOT been tested and certified by us or Microsoft. So they would be considered BETA and not really supported. We offer them as a courtesy to people who have AGP cards.

In order to update this service request, please respond, leaving the service request reference intact.

Best regards,

AMD Global Customer Care
===============

This is as far as I think you need to realize ATI is not supporting new drivers for the Radeon AGP cards. The drivers don't install with the installation package that ordinary users would use. ATI refuses to look into it.

As a computer programmer with 30 years experience, I think that effectively means they are not supporting new drivers for the AGP cards with their Radeon chips.

Others may have another interpretation, but if their install package doesn't work for ordinary home users, and they won't support it, they are not supporting their chipset.

But to be fair to ATI / AMD, I have included the rest of the correspondence.

===============
Hi -

1. From Control Panel; Add/Remove Programs, I uninstalled all ATI programs.
2. Rebooted.
3. Changed display to 1024x768 so I can see what I'm doing.
4. Ran 10-1_agp-hotfix_xp32_dd_ccc.exe
It installed everything but the driver. The driver failed to install with the message
"Error messages
Driver Install: the driver package is notsigned"
5. Right-clicked My Computer; and selected Properties; Hardware; Device Manager.
6. In Device Manager expanded Display adapters.
7. Right-clicked the display adapter (vga display adapter) and selected Update Driver.
8. Installed driver from specific location
C:\ATI\Support\10-1_agp-hotfix_xp32_dd_ccc\Packages\Drivers\Display\XP_INF
Told install to ignore that driver did not have Windows Logo certificate.
9. Driver completed installing.
10. Re-booted.
11. Verified driver is installed (it is version 8.690.0.0). OK.
12. Adjusted CCC and desktop settings. OK.

And it looks good.

So the 10-1 AGP hotfix install package installs on Radeon 2600XT AGP cards fine, but the driver does not install.

The driver will install manually, and seems to work fine.

So the install package script must have an error that cause the install to abort with the message "Driver Install: the driver package is not signed".

That error should be fixed so other customers don't have the same problem, so other customers do not become dissatisfied with ATI/AMD.

So for me, my computer is working fine with the latest driver and CCC. So I am happy.

But ATI/AMD should fix the install script so the install works for other customers. (If you need the install logs or anything, to help you debug, I'll be happy to send them to you. Otherwise, thanks and it was good working with you.)

Thanks for your help. Have a good week.

Keith
Winnipeg, Canada
------------------
Good, thank you very much for getting back to me.

I've found the driver files on my computer infolder C:\ATI\Support\9-11_legacy_xp32-64_dd_ccc\Driver\XP_INF

Inside that folder I see atiiseag.ini, CX_89304.cat, CS_89304.inf,and folder B_89382.

You say to manually install the drivers. What do I do to install the drivers? Do I right-click onthe two .inf files and select INSTALL, or what do I do?

Thanks very much for your help.

Keith
---------------------
Dear Customer,

Your service request : SR #{ticketno:[8200278391]} has been reviewed and updated.

Response andService Request History:

Installing the driver manually is the next approach to take. I have provided an exampleof were to locate the folder on the hard-drive to install the driver. Keep in mind that thi is a guide and is not what actually be on yourPC.

> C:\ATI\Support\9-11_legacy_xp32-64_dd_ccc\Driver\XP_INF

In order to update this service request, please respond, leaving the service request reference intact.

Best regards,

AMD Global Customer Care
---------------------
Hi -

Has there been any progress?

I'm a computer programmer myself, and I know things take time. But if AMD does not come up with something, I'll have to let the retailer know that AMD is not supporting its latest drivers on AGP Radeon cards.

That would protect the retailer (TigerDirect) from having future dis-satisfied customers, but it won't help me. My first choice would be for AMD to support its drivers.

Thanks.

- Keith
------------------------
Dear support person,

Thank you for your latest suggestion.

The HIS website sends customers to the AMD website to download drivers.So your most recent suggestion does not help me.

Follow the link here and you'll see:
http://www.hisdigital.com/ca/download1-361.shtml

I am a programmer myself. Are you sure you installation script is not expecting the drivers to be signed? Hasanyone there tested the install package on an AGP system?

IF the problem is not that the installation script is expecting signed drivers, it means that an incorrect error message is being issued. An incorrect error message is a bug and should be reported back to your development team.

Keith
-----------------
Dear Customer,

Your service request : SR #{ticketno:[8200278391]} has been reviewed and updated.

Response and Service Request History:

Thank you for the information that you provided.

AMD drivers should work with your HIS video card unless there are some conflict or incompatibility. Please make sure that you close all programs on background or close all the startup programs so that well know that theres no such application or program blocks or intereferes the installation process. If AMD drivers dont work, please visit HIS website, download and install their drivers instead.

Thank you.

In order to update this service request, please respond, leaving the service request reference intact.

Best regards,

AMD Global Customer Care
--------------
Hi -

Just to confirm, I know from this computer's specs that it doesn't have a built-in graphics controller. There is no mentionof a graphics controller in the BIOS. No graphics controller has ever shown up in Device Manager other than the card in the AGP slot.

This computer came with a GeForce graphics card, which I upgraded to a AIW 9600XT, which I just upgraded to the HIS Radeon 2600XT.

- Keith Tarrant

PROBLEM DESCRIPTION: The driver part of this fails to install.

The error message your install program gives when it completes is:
"Error messages
Driver Install: the driver package is not signed"

There are no prompts about accepting the unsigned driver. Your installation package just proceeds to reject the driver install. The CCCupdate installs fine.

I also have this same problem with the 9.12 driver.

The 9.10 driver simply doesn't install, thereis no error message.

The only driver that will install is the one on the installation CD from HIS.
------------
Hi -

That was not the problem. This computer does not have a built-in graphic controller and the only graphics controller that has ever shown up in Manage Computer/Hardware is the graphics controller in the AGP slot.

Keith
-----------------
Dear Customer,

Your service request : SR #{ticketno:[8200278391]} has been reviewed and updated.

Response and Service Request History:

Problems like this may occur if your computer has a built in graphicscontroller embedded on the motherboard. Please make sure that you disable the onboard video and follow the link below for a possible solution.



Should you need further assistance, Please contact us again.

Thank you.
------------------
Sent: 01/30/10 12:18:16
Subject: The driver part of this fails to install

PROBLEM DESCRIPTION: The driver part of this fails to install. The error message your install program gives when it completes is:

"Error messages
Driver Install: the driver package is not signed"

There are no prompts about accepting the unsigneddriver. Your installation package just proceeds to reject the driver install. The CCC update installs fine.

I also have this same problem with the 9.12 driver.

The 9.10 driver simply doesn't install, there is no error message.

The only driver that will install is the one on the installation CD from HIS.




February 20, 2010 1:24:46 AM

Just to add, my Radeon card is an HIS Radeon HD 2600 XT, AGP version, 4x/8x bus, with 512MB of DDR3 memory.

One of the cards Tom's Hardware rated "best buy" for over $100 for AGP.

But the install script problem probably applies to all AGP Radeons that use the install package.

ATI's reply on no driver support seems to apply to all AGP Radeons.

As a technical computer person, I have my fix -- install the driver manually.

But it seems to me very unprofessional for ATI / AMD to not provide a fix for ordinary retail users who bought their cards last month.
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February 23, 2010 4:38:28 PM

It is more a practical joke or fraud, than a courtesy, to provide hotfix drivers to your customers knowing those drivers don't work for anyone.

So I won't be buying or recommending any more AMD or ATI products.

Keith
----------
From: TECH.SUPPORT@AMD.COM
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 10:33 AM

Subject: AMD Service Notice:{ticketno:[8200278391]}

Dear Customer,

Your service request : SR #{ticketno:[8200278391]} has been reviewed and updated.

Response and Service Request History:

The confirmation of non-support is directly listed on the HOTFIX driver download page listed below. Again i see that there might be fraustration on the part of people purchasing older AGP cards and not getting support. But drivers are released monthly for these cards so with each driver release there is a potential that it will fix an issue.

> http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles/Pages/CatalystAGPH...

In order to update this service request, please respond, leaving the service request reference intact.

Best regards,

AMD Global Customer Care
-----------
To: TECH.SUPPORT@AMD.COM
CC:
Sent: 02/20/10 13:05:16
Subject: Fw: AMD Service Notice:{ticketno:[8200278391]}

That is not satisfactory support. If you consider drivers for these driver-dependent cards to be beta, and you have no intention of providing full support, the cards are not being fully supported.

For example, the updates to the drivers on the CD contain fixes, some software related, some operating system related.

Your company is not supporting those fixes on the AGP card. ATI is not supporting AGP versions of its Radeon cards. That is what you are doing is it not?

Please confirm with your managers that ATI / AMD does not intend to support updated drivers for Radeon 2000 series AGP cards. Then you may close this ticket. I will pursue this problem with my suppliers.

I don't make purchasing decisions where I work, but having had this personal experience, if asked, I'm certainly not going to be recommending AMD or ATI products any time soon. As a computer professional myself, my opinion of AMD's support of even current products is that it is unprofessional.

Products that post-purchase may turn out to be unsupported are not worth purchasing at any price.

Keith
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Related resources
February 23, 2010 5:12:23 PM

This sounds really bad, good on you for staying calm.... I know I would have lost it long before now.
Have you tried all the obvious things;
Fresh OS install?
Unplug all non-essential hardware?
Buy a newer mobo/ gfx card!!!! :)  Thats a joke btw, they should be supporting 2600's IMHO.
Keep the thread updated, i'm interested to see how this all works out for you.
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February 23, 2010 5:31:28 PM

I have a 2600XT on my older desktop. The only way I could get it to work alright is by reinstalling Windows XP and then installing drivers from my card manufacturer's site (in this case, it was HIS). Those drivers worked fine.
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February 23, 2010 7:32:13 PM

I am confused, you downloaded and installed an unsupported driver package, had problems and resolved them yet you are still mad at ATI?

Why are you not upset at the company that sold you the old card with outdated drivers in the first place? H.I.S. sold you the card, H.I.S. should also be supplying the driver updates, shouldn't you be bitching at them about this?
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February 23, 2010 9:06:52 PM

I can see you are confused. HIS didn't sell me the card. Tigerdirect did. HSI makes the card with the ATI / AMD chip under license from ATI / AMD.

Neither HSI nor Tigerdirect makes the chip and or the drivers.

ATI / AMD makes the drivers and "Catalyst Control Center" for the chip.

The card was made by HIS under license from ATI / AMD. (You can't just buy Radeon chips and sell cards, you need a license from ATI / AMD.)

And for good reason, the marketing people at ATI / AMD want to preserve their brand image. After all, who buys a video card because of the card maker? It is all about the chip and chip manufacturer, nVidia or Radeon.

After purchase, last month, it turns out the only updated drivers ATI / AMD provides for the card are in a Hotfix installation package.

The Hotfix drivers don't install with the standard installation package because of an error in the installation package.

ATI / AMD knows about the error, but won't fix it.

As you can see if you read through the correspondence, I have my fix, manually install the drivers. I did thank them and say they could close the problem.

But they did not leave it at that.

As an IT professional with over 30 years experience, for a chip maker to sell and license a product and not support it, to purport to have drivers out there, and for the only drivers to be unsupported HotFix drivers provided "as a courtesy to customers" knowing they don't work, is totally unprofessional. It is more like a prank than a courtesy.

HSI and Tigerdirect are like me, victims.
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February 23, 2010 9:22:37 PM

AMDChuck, with a nickname like that, do you know a lot about AMD? Do you work for AMD?

1. The card is not old. 2600 series cards are actively supported according to your company's website. They are not yet in the legacy "stabilized" category. You can verify this by going here http://www.amd.com/us/Pages/AMDHomePage.aspx and looking under drivers for Graphics; Windows XP; Radeon, and 2600.

2. Remember that video card drivers change frequently. Your employer puts out Radeon 2600 series drivers about every 2 months.

So video cards are always sold with out-dated drivers. And the video card was sold with out-of-date drivers, but was of a series where it appears ATI / AMD is still producing drivers.

As with cards using the nVidia video chip, with Radeon the customer buys the card and gets the updated drivers from the chipmaker's website.

Again, I have my solution, manually install the drivers. The drivers work, it is a bug in the install package. But to me this is only having drivers in HotFix status, refusing to fix the problem for regular consumers, is either a rip-off or practical joke on regular consumers.
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February 23, 2010 10:20:51 PM

HIS provides drivers that work just fine. It's their board, anyway. AMD just makes the chip.

Just sayin.
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February 23, 2010 11:45:27 PM

frozenlead, do you have a URL to HSI's drivers?

All I see when I look is a link to the ATI / AMD website. (Maybe they customize the site depending on the country you are coming from. I'm in Canada.)

Also, if the old drivers work fine, why does ATI / AMD publish new drivers and new Catalyst Control Centers? Do they have money to burn? Of course I don't update my drivers every 2 months, but once a year is reasonable.

Also, what if you want to update to Windows 7?

Understand, the retail box the video card comes in emphasises ATI and Radeon. HIS appears, in gray letters on a blue background.

My purchasing decision for the video card was based on the chipset maker's reputation in reviews on places like Tom's Hardware. HSI had no reputation with me.

Just sayin.

---

amdchuck, admittedly, I'm unlikely to buy an HSI product any time soon either.

Back in 2000 when I got stung buying an AMD Athlon in the vertical package (I don't know the proper slot configuration name, I'm a programmer not a hardware guy), and it burned out 3 MSI motherboards in one year. The retailer said he was having the same trouble with all Athlons in that configuration, regardless of motherboard maker. I junked that computer at the end of warranty and bought a Dell with an Pentium 4 chip. That was the last time I bought or specified an MSI or AMD product until now. (I had brought an ATI 9600XT AIW video card, but that was before, or before I knew, AMD bought ATI.) After 10 years, it was time to give AMD a second chance.

ATI / AMD might feel it is not professionally responsible for supporting its chips once they leave the loading dock.

Fine, I interpret that attitude as being professionally irresponsible.

It is a free country and you are certainly entitled to a different opinion on AMD / ATI.

Since AMD has a competitor, and the competitor's product is priced only slightly higher, I don't have a problem agreeing to disagree on the issue of AMD / ATI responsibility and whether their products are sufficiently supported.
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a b \ Driver
February 24, 2010 12:50:37 AM

Just one thing to add - you'll also find the same problem with the AGP versions of the NVIDIA cards (I had a 7800GS AGP until recently and have had the same problem with drivers not being able to be installed for them as well and Nvidia providing no support for them other than to tell you to revert to your old drivers ! - I finally gave up on the AGP bus and bought a new system with an ATI card since I will no longer support Nvidia ! - JUst figured you might want to know that before you wind up going through the same with Nvidia after paying to replace yet anothe card !!
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February 24, 2010 1:37:31 AM

AGP is DEAD!

Move On!

You say go with the other company, there are 3 other companies that sell AGP, guess your didn't research that had enough. And of those 3, none support modern games with their AGP cards, look at any of their forums, or JDFan's example of one of the other companies' customers' experiences.

What are you still doing on AGP, you can buy a second hand PC for likely about twice the price of any new 'gaming' AGP card?

Go to Memory Express or whatever other store you prefer in winterpeg and pick-up a new beige box and move out of the AGP age into something worth the effort.
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February 24, 2010 2:04:14 AM

Keith, no, I have no affiliation with AMD other then making the poor choice however many years ago when I first registered of sticking the AMD into my screen name as I was building my first PC, an AMD 486DX....also, plain 'ol Chuck was already taken.

My motherboard is manufactured by Shuttle but the chipset is made by Nvidia, who do you think I am going to bitch at if I have problems?

Also, no, I am not confused, you know exactly what I meant, I guess you just wanted to get that in.

Regarding H.I.S. redirecting to ATI for driver downloads. I went to the H.I.S. Canada site, selected the correct model graphics card and was presented with a driver download screen...of course the latest version H.I.S. makes available is 8.501 but once again, if anyone should be releasing update drivers for your card it is H.I.S.

http://www.hisdigital.com/ca/download1-361.shtml


In addition, why is AMD releasing updated drivers every two months if they don't work? They work just fine on the PCI-E versions of the cards.

Once again though I feel your anger or dissatisfaction if you will, is misdirected. H.I.S. sure as heck ain't providing you with any updated drivers so I would think that if anything, you would appreciate ATI making updated drivers available for technically proficient people like yourself to make use of.....once again, no thanks to H.I.S.....
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