so i was thinking at work today i was wondering to myself why i was told not to touch hot metal plates with a wet cloth. which is when i remembered that water is a good conductor of heat, which got me thinking why watercoolers use a copper plate between the CPU and the watercooler tubes. So why not get rid of the copper plate and have the water in direct contact on the CPU and just insulate around the CPU to prevent leaks?
06yfz450ridr
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- Nov 28, 2012
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most likely that would be very hard to actually not cause leaks as well as corrode the metal and eventualy fry the gpu itself. the coperblock will do just as well as direct contact with the water since the copper absorbs the heat and the water takes the heat away from the copper block
sealing would be an issue that could be solved and corrosion wouldnt be an issue either, at least not a big one. typically things corrode at a much lesser rate in environments that lack oxygen. i think an issue would be problems with different types of metals in the system(steel and copper).
also direct water contact would do much better just like a high end block does better then a low one. with copper blocks you have air pockets and thermal paste to block heat but without the block you would have no barrier to block heat.
manofchalk
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- May 11, 2012
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I imagine if it were possible it would have been done.
I think the problem come down to sealing it. The only ways I can think of sealing it would be through some kind of glue around the edges of the socket (which could wear away due to the water and heat, would also be impossible to replace the block/CPU) or rubber, which will have issues dealing with the heat.
I imagine also that manufactuers would hesitate even if it were possible, because if that seal breaks that's water going right into the CPU socket. A bad batch could easily cost them a lot of money. There isnt that issue with copper blocks.
I think the problem come down to sealing it. The only ways I can think of sealing it would be through some kind of glue around the edges of the socket (which could wear away due to the water and heat, would also be impossible to replace the block/CPU) or rubber, which will have issues dealing with the heat.
I imagine also that manufactuers would hesitate even if it were possible, because if that seal breaks that's water going right into the CPU socket. A bad batch could easily cost them a lot of money. There isnt that issue with copper blocks.
I think it comes down to, in theory it doesn't look to hard to do for a potentially large improvement (also potentially small, I'm not sure).
But in reality, it's a lot more difficult. Example, take the o ring idea.
How would the O ring connect to the CPU, what glue would you use, how would you make it happen, I can imagine it being very fiddely work.
How could you safely test it? Would the constant heating and cooling of the cpu crack the glue or cause a leak. The smallest leak could cost you a Mobo and a CPU
I mean honestly, considering Water cooling already does a pretty beast job, why make it harder for yourself?
Unless of course you are just experimenting, in which case go get and old Mobo and CPU and go nuts, if you get some sick cooling going on the post the results
But in reality, it's a lot more difficult. Example, take the o ring idea.
How would the O ring connect to the CPU, what glue would you use, how would you make it happen, I can imagine it being very fiddely work.
How could you safely test it? Would the constant heating and cooling of the cpu crack the glue or cause a leak. The smallest leak could cost you a Mobo and a CPU
I mean honestly, considering Water cooling already does a pretty beast job, why make it harder for yourself?
Unless of course you are just experimenting, in which case go get and old Mobo and CPU and go nuts, if you get some sick cooling going on the post the results
ummm with all due respect do you know how o rings work and what environments they are used in? an oring would have no problem sealing against the cpu as the cpu ihs is flat enough to do so. there would be a grove in the water block that the o ring sit in. also if a o ring can take the temp changes of a engine on the fuel injectors it can survive this environment.
i do agree that if you get it wrong you COULD ruin the motherboard and cpu but also remember deionized water and distilled water is not conductive unless you get impurities in the system.
manofchalk
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- May 11, 2012
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^ Distiled and De-ionized water doesnt stay that way for long in a loop. Gradually the metals of the loop will seep into the water, and de-ionized water is quite aggressive at grabbing electrons from metals. Mey be non-conductive when it went in, but will be whenit comes out. Thats why you cant use de-ionized water if you want to do something similar to oil cooling.
I know what an O ring is haha, But you can't just put the o ring on the cpu then place a water block on top and be like oh done.
From what you have said, I gather you want to put a groove in a water block, place the o ring inside, then just fasten the water block as you would normally, which would work I suppose, but I wouldn't want to do that without some sort of sealant.
Again I just think it comes down to being very easy in theory, but applying it in reality will be much more difficult.
I'm not saying it can't be done at all, I'm just saying that unless you're building it just for the fun of seeing if it can be done, it wouldn't be worth doing
From what you have said, I gather you want to put a groove in a water block, place the o ring inside, then just fasten the water block as you would normally, which would work I suppose, but I wouldn't want to do that without some sort of sealant.
Again I just think it comes down to being very easy in theory, but applying it in reality will be much more difficult.
I'm not saying it can't be done at all, I'm just saying that unless you're building it just for the fun of seeing if it can be done, it wouldn't be worth doing
mlcaouette
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- Apr 25, 2011
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This will answer all your questions:
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/277130-29-read-first-watercooling-sticky#t1992118
Metals are excellent conductors of heat and that is why the are used in between the cpu and the water. Not to mention they keep the water inside the loop, preventing corrosion on your cpu.
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/277130-29-read-first-watercooling-sticky#t1992118
Metals are excellent conductors of heat and that is why the are used in between the cpu and the water. Not to mention they keep the water inside the loop, preventing corrosion on your cpu.
- Jan 12, 2007
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The idea of the direct contact watercooling has been tossed around, but there are a few things to consider.
A CPU IHS isn't designed to dissipate heat into a watercooling environment since the surface is flat, rather than having pins like the inside of a watercooling (CPU) block. It's designed for transferring as much heat via conductivity to a heatsinks to then dissipate that out to the outside air. Yes, it would likely work 'fine' on a flat IHS to have direct contact to the water loop but you are really going to have to work on a method to prevent any defects in the o-ring from leaking along with a retention system that can maintain enough tension to support this design for long periods of time without fail.
Biggest drawbacks would be around making this an 'easy solution' for even experienced watercooling users as the potential downfalls outweigh the small gains.
A CPU IHS isn't designed to dissipate heat into a watercooling environment since the surface is flat, rather than having pins like the inside of a watercooling (CPU) block. It's designed for transferring as much heat via conductivity to a heatsinks to then dissipate that out to the outside air. Yes, it would likely work 'fine' on a flat IHS to have direct contact to the water loop but you are really going to have to work on a method to prevent any defects in the o-ring from leaking along with a retention system that can maintain enough tension to support this design for long periods of time without fail.
Biggest drawbacks would be around making this an 'easy solution' for even experienced watercooling users as the potential downfalls outweigh the small gains.
- Oct 7, 2009
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* as an addition to your post Rubix, DT blocks who mills his own blocks in his workshop released a DT direct waterblock that relies on direct contact with the CPU's IHS. Water flows over the IHS and the block is sealed via an O-ring. Temp drop were seen to be only a degree or two nothing phenomenal.
- Jan 12, 2007
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I thought I had seen someone that had done this but couldn't recall where. It's not impossible, but you really need to know what you are doing and have a solid design. Someone on the forums here had a idea about it a while back and wanted some testers so I asked about it but never really heard much back about it. I'd potentially be willing to test, but I'd have to really look at it before I made any decisions.
badtaylorx
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- Apr 7, 2011
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check out x-tream systems......they have 20 or so threads of ppl that have done that with varing degrees of success....
long story short... the IHS and cold plate are there for a reason
long story short... the IHS and cold plate are there for a reason
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