Archived from groups: alt.games.thief-dark-project (More info?)
Having just beat the game, I have a lot I'd like to talk about
I will go into some depth about the gameplay elements, enemies and tools.
Some might find this to be *spoiler* type material, but I will not reveal
anything about the story itself. That being said I'm not including spoiler
space.
First and foremost I have to say I find this to be one of the better Thief
games of the entire series. That's not to say it's perfect or suffers from
no flaws, but where I considered replaying the first two thief games only
after some time away from them, I can not wait to begin replaying this one.
Maybe it's the technology, or maybe I've developed as a gamer. Regardless,
Thief 3 is so perfectly ingrained into the universe that I have as much
trouble rating it over the other two as I had rating one over the other of
the first two games.
Since there are those that seem to think I can say nor stand to hear
anything negative about the game, I'll start with all my negative opinions
about the game.
-----------
Loading Zones: My dislike of the loading zones comes and goes. While in
the actual mission parts, I very rarely find myself at odds with them. They
break up the level sure, but in many ways it makes the level a little easier
to navigate. It can force the player to do a mental check that they got
everything done in the first part before moving onto the next part.
What I hate about them is their use in the city. There are 5 or 6 different
parts of the city. as well as 3 sub-mission segments, all divided up into
different loading zones. This makes the city feel not so sprawling as
cramped. Add to that the often extreme differences in populations and the
type of area and it's almost as if the loading zones are not gates but
subway terminals that wisk you away to a different town altogether. I think
of what the city might have been like were it not so cut up and I'm very sad
in deed. The possibilities are staggering.
---------
Garrett's Apartment: Exactly what the point of this is I can only guess.
My best guess is to give the player a home base, which could add to the
depth of the gameplay. However I find it to be lack luster in ever way.
You can not store gear there, you can not hide loot you might not want to
sell right away, you can't rest or eat there or anything else you might want
to do at your very own apartment. There's a dummy you can practice on, but
each actual confrontation is fairly unique, so I don't really see the value
of the dummy. Seemingly, the only constructive thing you can do is buy
practice locks and practice on them. Now maybe I'm a super 1337 gamer but
the lock picking, once you learn how to use it, is not a very difficult
skill to master. Just out of curiosity, did anyone buy any of the training
locks to legitimately practice on (versus buying them because you had an
excess of money toward the end of the game)?
---------
Glaring AI Issues:
Despite their vast improvements over the original AI, there are still loads
of what would appear to be simple properties IS could've added to the AI but
did not.
1) Faction Issues: If a member of a faction you are allied with witnesses
you carrying a body (as an example) they will attack you on sight from that
point forth, until you enter a mission or otherwise progress the story
further.
2) AI Killing AI: In several instances in the City, AI will attack other AI
to the death. Upon ANY AI seeing a dead body they will immediately begin
searching... for YOU! If you are aligned favorably with a faction, members
of that faction will not attack you on sight if they find a dead body killed
by other AI. Otherwise, if the AI is armed, they will attack you, if not
they will run and get the nearest armed person to come and attack you. A
simple flag to state whether the player had anything to do with the death of
an AI would've gone along way. I'm not saying all AI would see a body and
instantly know who killed them, but at the very least they wouldn't
automatically suspect you.
3) Sounds: Often times in Patched Expert mode, Guards will hear you make a
sound, turn and wander off in the completely opposite direction looking for
you. I could appreciate this more if it happened less, as sometimes it
would be hard to tell exactly where a sound was coming from.
On top of that I've not been very successful using Broadheads to make sounds
and distract guards. Anyone else have luck doing this?
Footsteps: How do they always know it's *ME* walking behind them to club
them? Talking in the City now, not in missions or anything. Civilians can
walk behind them without them looking over their shoulders, but if I so much
as step hard on stone they break their patrol route. I'm being super
nit-picky but it bothers me sometimes.
4) Sightings: Often the above happens after they catch a glimpse of you,
which completely kills the immersiveness for me. Who sees something move in
the corner then turns around and looks behind a couple crates?
P
There are lots more but this post is getting long already.
Now that I've made a few of my gripes known, I'd like to talk a bit about
what I feel are actual improvements, or at the very least, worthwhile
additions.
---------
Climbing Gloves: These are no substitute for the beloved rope arrows, but
in their own right they are great tools with lots of interesting
applications. More than once I've fallen from a high place and was able to
catch the wall on my way down. Even doing that once justifies their
existence for me.
On top of that the level designers have come up with lots interesting ways
to incorporate them. From climbing a wall to get a gas arrow or loot, to
finding an alternative way to a place you need to get to, these have lots of
cool applications. Best of all there are very few places where they're
required, so if a player doesn't like them, they don't need to use them.
----------
Levels: I think the levels (missions) in Thief 3 are quite often far
superior to those of the first two games. This is my opinion mind you. But
there's a certain realism to them that sometimes got forgotten in the first
two. For example, think back to Baffords Mansion. Think of all the strange
hallways, connecting rooms and what not. Think of the hidden passage from
the garden to the *RAFTERS* of the throne room. While the layout lends
itself nicely to the gameplay, you have to suspend reality quite often to
believe someone might actually live in this place.
I find all of the mansion style levels in Thief 3 to feel like actual places
of residence. It's not hard to imagine people actually living, playing,
working in these places. There are exceptions to every rule but I
thoroughly enjoyed what I saw.)
Damn, I'm running out of time but this should be enough to get some dialog
going. What does everyone else love/hate about Thief 3?
Happy Thieving!
Loony
Having just beat the game, I have a lot I'd like to talk about
I will go into some depth about the gameplay elements, enemies and tools.
Some might find this to be *spoiler* type material, but I will not reveal
anything about the story itself. That being said I'm not including spoiler
space.
First and foremost I have to say I find this to be one of the better Thief
games of the entire series. That's not to say it's perfect or suffers from
no flaws, but where I considered replaying the first two thief games only
after some time away from them, I can not wait to begin replaying this one.
Maybe it's the technology, or maybe I've developed as a gamer. Regardless,
Thief 3 is so perfectly ingrained into the universe that I have as much
trouble rating it over the other two as I had rating one over the other of
the first two games.
Since there are those that seem to think I can say nor stand to hear
anything negative about the game, I'll start with all my negative opinions
about the game.
-----------
Loading Zones: My dislike of the loading zones comes and goes. While in
the actual mission parts, I very rarely find myself at odds with them. They
break up the level sure, but in many ways it makes the level a little easier
to navigate. It can force the player to do a mental check that they got
everything done in the first part before moving onto the next part.
What I hate about them is their use in the city. There are 5 or 6 different
parts of the city. as well as 3 sub-mission segments, all divided up into
different loading zones. This makes the city feel not so sprawling as
cramped. Add to that the often extreme differences in populations and the
type of area and it's almost as if the loading zones are not gates but
subway terminals that wisk you away to a different town altogether. I think
of what the city might have been like were it not so cut up and I'm very sad
in deed. The possibilities are staggering.
---------
Garrett's Apartment: Exactly what the point of this is I can only guess.
My best guess is to give the player a home base, which could add to the
depth of the gameplay. However I find it to be lack luster in ever way.
You can not store gear there, you can not hide loot you might not want to
sell right away, you can't rest or eat there or anything else you might want
to do at your very own apartment. There's a dummy you can practice on, but
each actual confrontation is fairly unique, so I don't really see the value
of the dummy. Seemingly, the only constructive thing you can do is buy
practice locks and practice on them. Now maybe I'm a super 1337 gamer but
the lock picking, once you learn how to use it, is not a very difficult
skill to master. Just out of curiosity, did anyone buy any of the training
locks to legitimately practice on (versus buying them because you had an
excess of money toward the end of the game)?
---------
Glaring AI Issues:
Despite their vast improvements over the original AI, there are still loads
of what would appear to be simple properties IS could've added to the AI but
did not.
1) Faction Issues: If a member of a faction you are allied with witnesses
you carrying a body (as an example) they will attack you on sight from that
point forth, until you enter a mission or otherwise progress the story
further.
2) AI Killing AI: In several instances in the City, AI will attack other AI
to the death. Upon ANY AI seeing a dead body they will immediately begin
searching... for YOU! If you are aligned favorably with a faction, members
of that faction will not attack you on sight if they find a dead body killed
by other AI. Otherwise, if the AI is armed, they will attack you, if not
they will run and get the nearest armed person to come and attack you. A
simple flag to state whether the player had anything to do with the death of
an AI would've gone along way. I'm not saying all AI would see a body and
instantly know who killed them, but at the very least they wouldn't
automatically suspect you.
3) Sounds: Often times in Patched Expert mode, Guards will hear you make a
sound, turn and wander off in the completely opposite direction looking for
you. I could appreciate this more if it happened less, as sometimes it
would be hard to tell exactly where a sound was coming from.
On top of that I've not been very successful using Broadheads to make sounds
and distract guards. Anyone else have luck doing this?
Footsteps: How do they always know it's *ME* walking behind them to club
them? Talking in the City now, not in missions or anything. Civilians can
walk behind them without them looking over their shoulders, but if I so much
as step hard on stone they break their patrol route. I'm being super
nit-picky but it bothers me sometimes.
4) Sightings: Often the above happens after they catch a glimpse of you,
which completely kills the immersiveness for me. Who sees something move in
the corner then turns around and looks behind a couple crates?
PThere are lots more but this post is getting long already.
Now that I've made a few of my gripes known, I'd like to talk a bit about
what I feel are actual improvements, or at the very least, worthwhile
additions.
---------
Climbing Gloves: These are no substitute for the beloved rope arrows, but
in their own right they are great tools with lots of interesting
applications. More than once I've fallen from a high place and was able to
catch the wall on my way down. Even doing that once justifies their
existence for me.
On top of that the level designers have come up with lots interesting ways
to incorporate them. From climbing a wall to get a gas arrow or loot, to
finding an alternative way to a place you need to get to, these have lots of
cool applications. Best of all there are very few places where they're
required, so if a player doesn't like them, they don't need to use them.
----------
Levels: I think the levels (missions) in Thief 3 are quite often far
superior to those of the first two games. This is my opinion mind you. But
there's a certain realism to them that sometimes got forgotten in the first
two. For example, think back to Baffords Mansion. Think of all the strange
hallways, connecting rooms and what not. Think of the hidden passage from
the garden to the *RAFTERS* of the throne room. While the layout lends
itself nicely to the gameplay, you have to suspend reality quite often to
believe someone might actually live in this place.
I find all of the mansion style levels in Thief 3 to feel like actual places
of residence. It's not hard to imagine people actually living, playing,
working in these places. There are exceptions to every rule but I
thoroughly enjoyed what I saw.
)Damn, I'm running out of time but this should be enough to get some dialog
going. What does everyone else love/hate about Thief 3?
Happy Thieving!
Loony
Facebook
Twitter
Instagram