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ATI questions.

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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February 20, 2010 2:03:26 PM

I've been an avid fan to Nvidia for awhile now,(I even use Nvidia windows 7 edition) but reading that the Fermi is not coming till late March early April has pissed me off. They are taking long to release a dx11 card, and I know they will be half a grand for at least 6 months after release. My 9600gt is no longer holding up on 1650x1050 resolution like it did on my old monitor, so I am looking to upgrade. My price range is 150-300, but I don't know what to get for ati; the 5750, the 5770 or wait for 5830.Or should I just wait to see what Nvidia is doing.

More about : ati questions

a b U Graphics card
February 20, 2010 3:04:56 PM

http://www.tinydl.com/software/118549-windows-7-nvidia-...

I thought people who said that they were using an nvidia edition of windows were making it up, I was wrong. This scares me.

On topic, if you need to upgrade, upgrade. DX11 is of no importance right now outside the 58xx series as nothing else will be of use IMO.

A 5770 would be a decent enough upgrade I would imagine.

http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon-hd-5770-review-tes...

Looking at this review it would give you a few frames more.
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a b U Graphics card
a b $ Windows 7
February 20, 2010 3:19:28 PM

In that price range I'd probably wait to see the price and performance of the 5830 - The 5770 is a good card but since the 5830 is going to be a binned 5850 and thus have the 256bit memory bus the performance should be closer to the 5850 than the 5770 so depending on the release price might be a better choice in the long run and since it is only about 1 week away I'd at least wait and see before making the purchase at this point.
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February 20, 2010 4:02:19 PM

I really feel that buying a dx11 card currently will be better in the long run, thats why I'm just wondering. If not, id probably just buy a 9800gx2 being that the whole 200 series is basically spawned off that build. I didn't feel that it was important for dx10, but some games, like LOTRO, that I play often, are very texture based and could use the huge benefit of tessellation. Which they are releasing a dx11 patch in march.
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a c 225 U Graphics card
a b $ Windows 7
a c 75 Î Nvidia
February 20, 2010 4:31:52 PM

DX11 is really irrelevant at this point. With less than a handful of games out, it's kinda scary that even minimal implementation of DX11's features has, according to THG, a "colossal" effect on game performance. What happens when we see DX11 heavily incorporated into new titles ? Will today's DX11 games be capable of playing the more demanding games of XMas 2011 .... my bet is that any card released through June 2010 will struggle w/ the most demanding game available for XMas 2011 at max settings.

As for LOTRO, I don't think you'll see much of an impact. Unless the are going to build new wire frames remap the entire graphics of the entire game, the processing load shouldn't be affected all that much.

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a b U Graphics card
February 20, 2010 4:41:37 PM

I am going ATi DX11 really soon now!

Looking at some of the AvP benchmarks it looks like running DX11 code path has a less than 5% performance impact unlike Dirt2's 40% ish which just hurts

If you get a DX11 card now, you won't regret it later. Have seen people upgrading a week old 4890 to get DX11 features for AvP because it looks So much better in DX11.
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February 20, 2010 7:16:48 PM

Pailin said:
I am going ATi DX11 really soon now!

Looking at some of the AvP benchmarks it looks like running DX11 code path has a less than 5% performance impact unlike Dirt2's 40% ish which just hurts

If you get a DX11 card now, you won't regret it later. Have seen people upgrading a week old 4890 to get DX11 features for AvP because it looks So much better in DX11.


That's what I figured, I would just like a performance boost from 9600gt and have the option of dx11. I just want performance rate up to 40-50 fps, any thing over its a pissing contest, our eyes can't even see that fast. But from what I've been reading is that 57xx series don't have the greatest of tessellation, hoping the 5830 will perform better in that arena.
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a b U Graphics card
February 20, 2010 8:37:29 PM

Sounds like a plan :) 

I think I might really push the boat out this time around and get a 5850 or maybe even something like that new soon due out MSI 5870 Lightning said to be clocked at 1000MHz as standard lol :D 

Have never spent more than £220 ($340) on a GFx card before!
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a b U Graphics card
February 20, 2010 10:28:36 PM

£220 is quite a lot on a graphics card, unless you've been buying nvidia up till now.
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a b U Graphics card
February 20, 2010 10:33:14 PM

Hmm, my card was a lot more than £220.
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a b U Graphics card
February 21, 2010 1:29:27 AM

Well yes, but that's basically 2 cards in 1.

I have never spent more than £220 on any single graphics card. My most expensive purchase would actually be my most recent dual 5770's @ £235 for them both. Before that is was the 5850 @ £210 and the 4870 @ £190.

Going back, I spent £115 on an 8800gt, £105 on an x1950pro, £100 on a 6600gt (that was half price sale), £50 on a 5700 LE (also half price) and uh..£70 on a 440MX, which was the first time I was ripped off by Nvidia. :p 
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a b U Graphics card
February 21, 2010 12:19:16 PM

yeah, it is a lot - but compared to a CPU you get a Lot for your money these days!

My mini history:

Around time of my 1st PC I remember my main Birthday present was 4MB RAM, doubling my RAM :ouch: 
cost £100

Matrox Millenium 4MB £225
Diamond Voodoo 2 £199
Voodoo 3 3000 £70 (technically got free from work when Dell shipped wrong card, this one, and shipped me a new TNT2 + let me keep the Voodoo 3 :D  )
Radeon 9800Pro £150
HIS Radeon X1800XL £230
Current Asus 8800GT £168

After that 1st GFx card, they all seem to be pretty good value considering what they do now compared to then LOL
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a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
February 21, 2010 12:52:03 PM

Do not buy a GX2, there is no point in buying a DX10.0 card nowadays, especially with the old architecture of the G92 which doesn't have the setup, memory and texture tweaks of the G200 series. Right now for any new build you should only be considering DX11 cards, it may not be showing much at this moment, but it is about to become more common, so why buy something old? It would be like buying a Geforce4Ti instead of a Radeon 9500, terrible long term strategy and lower performance as you move forward.

I would wait for the final price of the HD5830 if you can, and that should also influence the pricing of the HD5770. Another consideration would be to do a 2 phase upgrade, where you get and HD5750 even and then take the savings to buy a mature design next year or another HD5750 for Xfire, which would give you that HD5850-5870 type performance or higher in most situations.

If you don't want to upgrade again at all and just fire-and-forget, then definitely get the HD5830, if you want to approach it with the power for now and then options later, then I'd say the HD5750 or HD5770 and then see what ATi and nVidia bring over the next year that may attract you to either change or just add another Juniper/HD57xx card (probably when they cost ~$75 too).
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February 21, 2010 2:05:38 PM

How is ATi as a company, I've never really used any of their cards.
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a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
February 21, 2010 2:59:08 PM

They're similar to nVidia in most respects.

They both have their problems, but both try to address them, sometimes it takes a while, sometimes it's quick. But both are pretty equal with their good and bad points.
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a c 271 U Graphics card
a b $ Windows 7
a c 171 Î Nvidia
February 21, 2010 2:59:30 PM

dragas89 said:
How is ATi as a company, I've never really used any of their cards.

Quite a few people feel that their drivers could be better.
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a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
February 21, 2010 3:00:23 PM

But they tend to be quicker than nVidia at addressing driver issues.

+/-
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a c 271 U Graphics card
a b $ Windows 7
a c 171 Î Nvidia
February 21, 2010 3:04:36 PM

Nvidia took five days to sort out the last issue with their driver, which was the OC issue but the grey screen issue has been going on since Sept/Oct last year and nearly six months and several drivers later people are still having issues.
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a b U Graphics card
February 21, 2010 3:18:24 PM

Equal amounts of people think nvidia's drivers could be better...
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a b U Graphics card
February 21, 2010 3:21:30 PM

That's the steam 'market' not the actual market otherwise intel would be way ahead.

Even taking that as the real market they would both be around the same level of crashes caused, certainly ATI are no worse than Nvidia in that regard.
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a c 271 U Graphics card
a b $ Windows 7
a c 171 Î Nvidia
February 21, 2010 3:27:33 PM

jennyh said:
That's the steam 'market' not the actual market otherwise intel would be way ahead.

Even taking that as the real market they would both be around the same level of crashes caused, certainly ATI are no worse than Nvidia in that regard.

It's good enough when JDJ uses it, and why do you only use the Vista numbers? An OS that is wildly regarded as the 'broken OS' or 'unfinished' according to a certain S.Ballmer.

http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/vista/ballmers_bold_vista_admission.html
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a b U Graphics card
February 21, 2010 3:28:29 PM

Well I don't have the windows 7 numbers yet but I'll be sure to let you know when I do.
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a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
February 21, 2010 3:28:50 PM

Mousemonkey said:
Nvidia took five days to sort out the last issue with their driver, which was the OC issue but the grey screen issue has been going on since Sept/Oct last year and nearly six months and several drivers later people are still having issues.


That's not the only issue nV has, and both like I mentioned, have issues they address quickly and slowly (BTW remember the Grey Screen issue was cause by a Windows change, which was fixed for most people with the windows update earlier this month) not everyone get fixed either, some nV users still have 1080i issues, but hey, no one's perfect, right? :whistle: 

Mousemonkey said:
As Nvidia have so much more of the market all things are relative.


Relative, but taking both your and his examples at face value means according to the ArsTechnica chart he provided more than three time as many reported crashes were caused by nV, while your chart from Valve/Source shows that just over 2 times (~2.2x) as many card are nVidia, which would say that nVidia hardware is 43% more likely to have driver issues. [:grahamlv:3]


Really I'll just stick to my original statement: But both are pretty equal with their good and bad points. [:jaydeejohn:5]

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a c 271 U Graphics card
a b $ Windows 7
a c 171 Î Nvidia
February 21, 2010 4:05:36 PM

TheGreatGrapeApe said:
That's not the only issue nV has, and both like I mentioned, have issues they address quickly and slowly (BTW remember the Grey Screen issue was cause by a Windows change, which was fixed for most people with the windows update earlier this month) not everyone get fixed either, some nV users still have 1080i issues, but hey, no one's perfect, right? :whistle: 

As I have had no problems with 1080 I can, like ATi users who have had no grey screen issues, say that the problem does not exist, right. [:mousemonkey]



TheGreatGrapeApe said:
Relative, but taking both your and his examples at face value means according to the ArsTechnica chart he provided more than three time as many reported crashes were caused by nV, while your chart from Valve/Source shows that just over 2 times (~2.2x) as many card are nVidia, which would say that nVidia hardware is 43% more likely to have driver issues. [:grahamlv:3]


Really I'll just stick to my original statement: But both are pretty equal with their good and bad points. [:jaydeejohn:5]

As there has not been 43% more posts concerning Nvidia issues I'd say all the numbers are bunkem as graphs and charts can always be found to bolster ones arguments if you look hard enough, but at this moment in time I've been following several threads on this very forum concerning the 5 series issues and there does not seem to be a proper and complete solution yet and the problems were being reported before the windows update.

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/273700-33-finally-5870-random-screen-artifacts#t2015581
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a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
February 21, 2010 4:18:40 PM

I'm just going with the numbers you two both put forward as proof of your positions, I'm not going to take a position myself other than they are equal.

I won't use anything to support that other than I think it is therefore it is, and adaptation of I think therefore I swam ! [:mousemonkey:3]
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a c 271 U Graphics card
a b $ Windows 7
a c 171 Î Nvidia
February 21, 2010 4:21:52 PM

Fair 'nuff, I can respect that. :) 
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February 21, 2010 4:59:20 PM

dragas89 said:
How is ATi as a company, I've never really used any of their cards.


Well, I did find this pie chart. I think it speaks for itself.

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