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HD 5970 or GTX 480 ? Please HELP!

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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February 23, 2010 8:14:43 AM

I am going to build a new rig in about one and a half month. GTX 480 will get released in about one month, but it will take time to come to our country, likewise about 2-3 months. Should i go for HD 5970 or wait for GTX 480, cause i have read that, dual gpu's/xfire/SLI have microstuttering problem. If there's is microstutter problem in dual gpu's then there's no point in going for it. Until now HD 5970 played all games above 60 FPS, and generally microstutter problem seems at 30 fps and below. But after a year or two games will demand high graphics, so its fps will drop down to 30 easily.


Are there any driver optimizations going on from ATI to remove Microsttutering ? Will Microstuttering remain Forever?

HD 5970 had grey lines problem, is it totally gone in catalyst driver 10.2 ?

So, is it really worth a choice to invest in dual gpu setup ?

More about : 5970 gtx 480

a b U Graphics card
February 23, 2010 8:35:25 AM

well if the price and performance info on the web is true, the 480 will be an absolute waste of cash. more expensive for a considerably less powerful card? no thanks.

dual GPU isn't the bane to gamers it used to be. its a very well supported and maintained technology.
and as for driver concerns, the grey-line issue has been fixed, and the fact ATI have a 4 motnh lead driver wide over nvidia means you have little to worry about.
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a c 376 U Graphics card
February 23, 2010 8:48:50 AM

Well obviously you are jumping the gun with this question. You say you will be building the rig in a month and a half. Hopefully by then Nvidia's cards will be out so at least you'll be able to compare the cards properly based on performance/price.
As for worrying about FPS going under 30... well under 30 is generally where people don't consider game play to be smooth. That you are even considering such expensive cards tells me you are definitely not the kind of person that would keep using any card that gives you FPS below 30.
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February 23, 2010 9:29:30 AM

jyjjy said:
As for worrying about FPS going under 30... well under 30 is generally where people don't consider game play to be smooth. That you are even considering such expensive cards tells me you are definitely not the kind of person that would keep using any card that gives you FPS below 30.




The rig i am going to build up will last for about 4 years, so i have to take that 30 fps thing into consideration.

Will microstutter remain forever or it will be eliminated through driver support?
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a c 376 U Graphics card
February 23, 2010 9:47:13 AM

You mean you would like it to last 4 years... and it probably wont.
Just buy a card for half the price that will perform great for the reasonable future. When necessary get another new card with good performance and price. If you've got tons of money and are willing to use it to keep up with the cutting edge tech then get the latest tech. If not then don't. No one who would keep using a card after it isn't able to provide smooth gameplay(FPS below 30) should ever think about spending $600-700 on a video card; it just doesn't make sense.
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February 23, 2010 10:12:09 AM

jyjjy said:
You mean you would like it to last 4 years... and it probably wont.
Just buy a card for half the price that will perform great for the reasonable future. When necessary get another new card with good performance and price. If you've got tons of money and are willing to use it to keep up with the cutting edge tech then get the latest tech. If not then don't. No one who would keep using a card after it isn't able to provide smooth gameplay(FPS below 30) should ever think about spending $600-700 on a video card; it just doesn't make sense.




So in your opinion i should get HD 5870 or GTX 470 instead of HD 5970 or GTX 480 ?

So what's the meaning of HD 5970 or GTX 480, what's so special about them that they are priced way too high ?

will HD 5870 and GTX 470 be able to play upcoming Crysis 2 ?
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a c 376 U Graphics card
February 23, 2010 10:24:16 AM

I would actually recommend an HD5850 and overclocking it. The HD5850/70 both allow for voltage changes to the GPU which helps them OC a ton. The HD5850 can OC well past the performance of a stock HD5870 if you bump up the voltage. It's a very nice card for $300 and the best choice for the money on the highend. I doubt you would need anything better for a good long while unless your resolution is 2560x1600.
Also an HD5970 is essentially two HD5850s in crossfire so if you ever want to you could add another and there's your HD5970.
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February 23, 2010 10:41:12 AM

jyjjy said:
I would actually recommend an HD5850 and overclocking it. The HD5850/70 both allow for voltage changes to the GPU which helps them OC a ton. The HD5850 can OC well past the performance of a stock HD5870 if you bump up the voltage. It's a very nice card for $300 and the best choice for the money on the highend. I doubt you would need anything better for a good long while unless your resolution is 2560x1600.
Also an HD5970 is essentially two HD5850s in crossfire so if you ever want to you could add another and there's your HD5970.



Thanks for your support. Lastly, what will be done about microstuttering issue, will it be solved through future driver support?
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February 23, 2010 11:19:44 AM

Driver support will improve performance as problems are solved that arise, that being said jyjjy is right in saying you should probably go with a lesser card.

A couple questions I would need to ask are

1. What resolution are you going to be gaming at?
2. You mentioned that it would have to last 4 years. Why? because of budget concerns, or would you rather just build a system and not worry about upgrading it till 3 or 4 years down the road?

Based on these 2 questions, you'll have very different needs
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a b U Graphics card
February 23, 2010 11:41:36 AM

yeah the hd 5850 is the way to go, they are the best overclocking cards on the market, i can have mine overclocked from 725mhz core to 1000mhz core with 1.27v if i want to but i keep it at 950 with only 1.16v. and it runs very cool, around 70c on load :) 
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February 23, 2010 11:54:29 AM

Derbixrace, what program are you using to OC?? When I try to use ATIs software, as soon as I click the unlock button, i get horrible artifacting and blinking.
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February 23, 2010 1:44:14 PM

microterf said:
Driver support will improve performance as problems are solved that arise, that being said jyjjy is right in saying you should probably go with a lesser card.

A couple questions I would need to ask are

1. What resolution are you going to be gaming at?
2. You mentioned that it would have to last 4 years. Why? because of budget concerns, or would you rather just build a system and not worry about upgrading it till 3 or 4 years down the road?

Based on these 2 questions, you'll have very different needs



1. I am Going to game at 1920 x 1080 resolution.

2. Yeah because of not worrying for 3-4 years about upgrading, cause i get tired when reading reviews of different products. Specifications of my new rig are,

i7-920
12 gb DDR3 1600 Mhz
Corsair TX950W
Gigabyte ex58-ud5 mobo
Coolermaster Storm Sniper cabinet
HD 5970 or HD 5850(as you guys tell) or GTX 480


One thing i need you to tell that this pc will be used for after effects, maya, max, zbrush.....etc. Inshort, for rendering purpose. So i need a graphic card with higher memory, that's the reason i had chosen HD 5970.
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a b U Graphics card
February 23, 2010 2:24:52 PM

if you really need more GFx memory, then maybe:

ASUS Radeon HD 5870 MATRIX 2GB

will be good.

Should be coming out sometime in March - my guess... as the new 2GB Eyefinity 6 display port models should be arriving then too I understand then. Maybe there will be a 5850 2GB released???
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February 23, 2010 2:42:46 PM

jyjjy said:
I would actually recommend an HD5850 and overclocking it. The HD5850/70 both allow for voltage changes to the GPU which helps them OC a ton. The HD5850 can OC well past the performance of a stock HD5870 if you bump up the voltage. It's a very nice card for $300 and the best choice for the money on the highend. I doubt you would need anything better for a good long while unless your resolution is 2560x1600.
Also an HD5970 is essentially two HD5850s in crossfire so if you ever want to you could add another and there's your HD5970.

No, the're not. A 5850 has 1200 SP's. The 5970 has 1600*2. It's a pair of underclocked 5870's.
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a b U Graphics card
February 23, 2010 2:45:01 PM

FAIL! a 5850 has 1440 SP's :D 
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February 23, 2010 2:48:27 PM

007Nix said:
1. I am Going to game at 1920 x 1080 resolution.

2. Yeah because of not worrying for 3-4 years about upgrading, cause i get tired when reading reviews of different products. Specifications of my new rig are,

i7-920
12 gb DDR3 1600 Mhz
Corsair TX950W
Gigabyte ex58-ud5 mobo
Coolermaster Storm Sniper cabinet
HD 5970 or HD 5850(as you guys tell) or GTX 480


One thing i need you to tell that this pc will be used for after effects, maya, max, zbrush.....etc. Inshort, for rendering purpose. So i need a graphic card with higher memory, that's the reason i had chosen HD 5970.

The 5970 has 2X1GB memory. It is NOT equal to 2GB. Because the same data is loaded onto each GPU, you are still stuck with 1GB mem effectively. Get a Crossfire mobo with two PCIe x8 slots, and stick two of that ^ guys 2GB 5870's on it. 2x 5870=~15% faster than a 5970. 2GB=enough for your rendering needs. Though for rendering, I think it would be better to get a 5870 and a separate ATI FireGL/NV Quadro as a secondary display adaptor. Note- you wont be able to use a FireGL along with the 5870, it will be a secondary GPU which you can use purely for your rendering stuff. You can stick multiple GPU's on a single mobo- I know a guy who runs a 4870X2 for gaming on a single monitor, and runs his other displays through a 4350 on a PCIe x1 slot. Not too sure if you can stick a quadro with an ATI card.
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February 23, 2010 3:04:40 PM

i would make the graphics card your last purchase. regardless of the Nvidia offering, it could soften prices up some.
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February 23, 2010 3:07:12 PM

1080p is not going to be as demanding as 2560, but I would recommend getting the 5970 seeing as how you don't want to be upgrading too often. Price per performance isn't as good as a 5870, but you won't have to worry about upgrading for awhile, you can also OC the 5970 very easily, plus throw in another one if needed later for a cheaper price, or even a 5870 to run trifire with them.
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February 23, 2010 3:08:25 PM

Oh yeah, btw, the 480 should fall well below the 5970 in performance (as well it should since it's not a dual GPU solution) but you have to wait and see if there is a dual NV solution, and who knows how long that will take to get to market.
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a b U Graphics card
February 23, 2010 3:25:01 PM

his issue with upgrading is having to trawl through reviews to figure out what is the latest greatest...

So adding a 2nd 58XX later is not an issue as he just has to simply order another of the same and save even more money by then ;) 
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February 23, 2010 6:12:28 PM

Graphics memory is not nearly as important as system memory when it comes to 3D and Graphics software.

First of all, the graphics card will only affect viewport performance, not rendering speed or any other calculations. The HD 5850 is a great card for Maya/Mudbox. HOWEVER, Maya (and every other major 3D program) cannot take advantage of crossfireX or SLI, so the 5970 would not be a great choice, as it would be only using half of its capacity during 3D work.

1GB of Memory on your video card is plenty. Heck, 512MB would be fine. Maya will just use system memory if it has to, and that is plenty fast enough for viewport performance, which does not require huge FPS like 90>. I also doubt that you will be using giant scenes with 4K textures - even if you do, you can get by with render proxies and you'll be fine. It's good practice anyway.

you do NOT need a workstation graphics card. They are a huge ripoff. In the past they offered a real advantage but now that 3D applications display more similarly to the way games do, the sheer power of the gaming cards makes them actually perform BETTER than the workstation cards which are 10x more expensive (>$1000 for something as fast as a 4850). I can attest that the 5xxx drivers work fine with Maya 2009 and Windows 7 x64, as I own a 5770.

Don't listen to anyone who tells you a graphics card will be good for rendering. Maya Software and Mental Ray, along with every other major renderer does not use the GPU. The CPU is key.
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February 23, 2010 11:39:17 PM

eaclou said:
Graphics memory is not nearly as important as system memory when it comes to 3D and Graphics software.

First of all, the graphics card will only affect viewport performance, not rendering speed or any other calculations. The HD 5850 is a great card for Maya/Mudbox. HOWEVER, Maya (and every other major 3D program) cannot take advantage of crossfireX or SLI, so the 5970 would not be a great choice, as it would be only using half of its capacity during 3D work.

1GB of Memory on your video card is plenty. Heck, 512MB would be fine. Maya will just use system memory if it has to, and that is plenty fast enough for viewport performance, which does not require huge FPS like 90>. I also doubt that you will be using giant scenes with 4K textures - even if you do, you can get by with render proxies and you'll be fine. It's good practice anyway.

you do NOT need a workstation graphics card. They are a huge ripoff. In the past they offered a real advantage but now that 3D applications display more similarly to the way games do, the sheer power of the gaming cards makes them actually perform BETTER than the workstation cards which are 10x more expensive (>$1000 for something as fast as a 4850). I can attest that the 5xxx drivers work fine with Maya 2009 and Windows 7 x64, as I own a 5770.

Don't listen to anyone who tells you a graphics card will be good for rendering. Maya Software and Mental Ray, along with every other major renderer does not use the GPU. The CPU is key.


Thanks eaclou. Surfing throughout the net i have found that i can use my gtx 260 as physx with ati cards by patching some software. But for that, nvidia card must be bluffed by adding some 68 ohm resistors to its vga port. Besides i have two port in my monitor, one DVI and other VGA, so i thought that i will connect DVI cable to HD 5xxx and vga cable to gtx 260, will this setup work instead of adding 68 ohm resistors to gtx 260 ?

My LCD is samsung P2350.
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February 27, 2010 12:16:13 AM

microterf said:
Oh yeah, btw, the 480 should fall well below the 5970 in performance (as well it should since it's not a dual GPU solution) but you have to wait and see if there is a dual NV solution, and who knows how long that will take to get to market.


There is a dual GPU solution to NVIDIA. It's called the GTX295.
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a b U Graphics card
February 27, 2010 12:41:18 AM

daytonadave said:
There is a dual GPU solution to NVIDIA. It's called the GTX295.


well done. were you being dillebarlty unhelpful, are are you just stupid?

obviously, the 295 is not even in the same league as the 5970.
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February 27, 2010 1:40:25 AM

welshmousepk said:
well done. were you being dillebarlty unhelpful, are are you just stupid?

obviously, the 295 is not even in the same league as the 5970.


DUDE, i was commenting on the fact that there was a dual GPU card from NVIDIA, not whether it is comparable to the 5970.
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February 27, 2010 4:18:41 AM

daytonadave said:
There is a dual GPU solution to NVIDIA. It's called the GTX295.


Obviously I was talking about THIS generation, as in DX11. Don't be a smartass
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a b U Graphics card
February 27, 2010 4:33:57 AM

The Fermi chips is not likely going to have a dual GPU solution because a single chip consumes 280W and is extremely hot. For liability reasons they can't exceed the 300W envelope, same with the 5970.

Since I have a 5970, I would recommend it. Getting a 5870 cost $400 and a second one would cost you another $400. While the 5970 which is basically 2x5870s cost only $600. If you are looking into crossfire, it is a good deal.

Someone is going to call me out and in a very rude manner tell me the 5970 is actually clocked at 5850 speeds. True but it uses chips and parts that are higher grade than the 5870 so you can overclock to those levels easy. I have mine running at 950mhz/1200mhz core and memory.

The so called "grey line" problem was actually caused by the drivers default settings. Which had the clock speeds way too low at idle. 157mhz/300mhz. So the cards were artifacting like mad and crashing left and right at desktop. The new drivers had the idle clocks higher.

As for speeds the 5970 does provide. If you are thinking of 3-4 years, then I cannot say. Thinking back 3-4 years, graphics cards were nothing compared to what they are today, but games on the otherhand didn't see such improvements. So while the 5970 may still max settings for the next 2 years hopefully. You would most likely get away with medium settings on your 3rd - 4th depending on your monitor size. Im running 2560x1600 and I honestly don't think the 5970 will last more than 2 years with max settings.
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February 27, 2010 4:51:16 AM

^+1
Get the 5970, and be done with it. You'll love it.
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February 27, 2010 5:50:01 PM

5970 will only help in games. Half of its power will be wasted in 3D applications, as they do not support Crossfire or SLI.

5870 would be better if it is powerful enough for the games you intend to be playing at your intended resolution.
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a b U Graphics card
February 27, 2010 6:51:32 PM

Most people don't run 3D applications that is not a game.
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February 27, 2010 9:23:48 PM

rofl_my_waffle said:
Most people don't run 3D applications that is not a game.



Quote:
One thing i need you to tell that this pc will be used for after effects, maya, max, zbrush.....etc. Inshort, for rendering purpose. So i need a graphic card with higher memory, that's the reason i had chosen HD 5970.
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