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Will fermi drop price of 5770?

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February 25, 2010 3:25:59 PM

i want to get a 5770...i have a 3850 now. i keep hearing about the fermi card lowering the prices for the ati cards, but do we really think it will lower the price of the 5770? or is the $170 price point probably going to not change when the new nvidia cards come out? thanks.

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a c 125 U Graphics card
February 25, 2010 3:32:52 PM

its unlikely as the new nvidia cards are very high end and not mid range like a 5770, so ATi still won't have a DX11 nvidia equalient to compete against and so can price it at what they like (within reason). You might see a very slight price drop but I wouldn't hold your breath
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a b U Graphics card
February 25, 2010 3:34:20 PM

NOPE, imo. The 5770 has at least 20 models on newegg, must be their most popular seller. It has NO competition at that price point. With older hardware now UP in price , it has its own little niche. The 5750 , might drop, even that model has never been priced much lower than a 5770, that puzzles me. Maybe a lot of oem's are using it.
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February 25, 2010 4:04:23 PM

Unlikely since Nvidia won't compete in the consumer market, unless the GTX 470/480 are consumer cards itself. :D 
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February 25, 2010 4:27:45 PM

are they expecting a big drop in the 5850 price? i mean if so, that might make buying a 5770 a dumb choice.
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a b U Graphics card
February 25, 2010 4:30:08 PM

nope

teh 5830 has just come out a little overpriced and underpowered + has actually already driven Up 5850 prices here in the UK >_<
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February 25, 2010 4:36:34 PM

so why does everyone keep saying the new fermi's will drop the prices of the radeon 5xxx cards then?
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a b U Graphics card
February 25, 2010 4:39:05 PM

tbh - I had heard NVidia say they will be releasing other consumer level cards too as I remember... will see soon enough.
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a b U Graphics card
February 25, 2010 5:10:35 PM

This is a tough one , but here goes:

In my opinion, the prices of the 5770 (or any other 5xxx card) will only go down in price IF Nvidia produces a card of equal or greater performance for the same price as the 5770 (or 5xxx card)

Example: Nvidia releases the GTX 480 for $650.00 and it only outperforms the 5870 by 15% or less, there is no reason for ATI to lower the price, now, if the GTX 470 is released @ $500.00 and it 15% better than the 5870 performance-wise, then yeah, ATI will likely drop the price a little bit.

Another example: If Nvidia releases lats say, a GTX 460 and it costs $350 and it is of equal performance with the 5870, ATI will have no choice but to bring the prices down...

prices of the 5xxx cards going down ALL depends on Nvidia's offerings. If Nvidia forces ATI to drop prices, it will be due to price-to-performance. Though, Nvidia has been known to charge a little more than ATI in respect to price/performance.
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a b U Graphics card
February 25, 2010 5:20:14 PM

The recent HD5830 has more chance of influencing the HD5770's price than anything Fermi based, because as already mentioned, it's unlikely that nV will have anything in that space for a few more months.

If Fermi really blew away the high end then downward pressure on the HD5870 would push on the HD5850 which would push on the HD5830 which would push on the HD5770, but even that effect looses it's influence the further down the chain you go, and it's unlikely to have a huge impact on the HD5770, especially if ATi/AMD wants to use profits from the HD5770 to potentially finance any price cuts on the HD5870. But I don't see that being likely either.

Give it a few more weeks and the pressure from the HD5830 should be enough to lower prices a bit.
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a b U Graphics card
February 25, 2010 5:32:44 PM

TheGreatGrapeApe said:

Give it a few more weeks and the pressure from the HD5830 should be enough to lower prices a bit.


Not at the release price of $239 on the 5830 - the performance just isn't that much better than the 5770 to push it's price lower until it also comes down some with an $80 -$90 difference between the 5770 and the 5830 there isn't the extra performance to make people go for it over the 5770 - at that price ir makes more sense to just get the 5770 - and save the $80 toward later adding a second 5770 vs. buying the 5830 to begin with.
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a b U Graphics card
February 25, 2010 5:38:37 PM

According to the rumours surrounding the Fermi chips. Such as this article.

http://www.semiaccurate.com/2010/02/22/first-gtx-480470...

If that is true there would be no movement in ATI pricing.
Since there is no mainstream announcement of Fermi chips. ATI would be riding on it's monopoly for the rest of this quarter and probably the next quarter. the GTX 470 at $499 is not mainstream.
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February 25, 2010 5:52:24 PM

thanks for the answers. i think the biggest question is always, "is it actually worth buying the 5770 now, or waiting a few weeks/months to see if the prices fluctuate when the market is equalized?" but in a few months ATI might release specs on a 6xxx card due in early 2011 that makes you ask again, "is it actually worth buying the 5850 now or waiting...etc."

sounds like purchasing a 5770 now is not a bad idea, and if in a few weeks/months it turns out to go down in price, doesn't sound like it's going to be much. IMO a $20-30 price drop is not significant enough to be upset over if you happened to purchase on the high end. that's like 3 beers at the bar where i live. on the other hand, if the 5770 was going to drop to $100-120, i would likely wait to purchase.
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a b U Graphics card
February 25, 2010 5:58:56 PM

I don't see it dropping to the $100 to $120 mark for at least six months or more and figure then you have to decide if having the use of it for that six months or so was worth the $40 the price dropped and depending on what you have now I'd say it most likely is !!
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a b U Graphics card
February 25, 2010 6:38:39 PM

JDFan said:
Not at the release price of $239 on the 5830 ...


I'm not talking about the price 30 seconds after launch (where the HD5770 wasn't affecting anything else either), but give it time to settle and then you will likely see the price drop and that's when you will see it push downwards. Like I said, give it a few more weeks, and also it will still have more influence than Fermi, until the mid-range launches months from now.
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a b U Graphics card
February 25, 2010 7:37:32 PM

Yeah, Fermi would cause a price drop if the 5770 cost $700. As it stands, the new nvidia cards are probably going to be so expensive they don't drive down the price of anything.

If the 480 was $600 and performed close to a 5970, then maybe it would spark some competition ... but from what I can understand, they basically built $500 version of the 5850 and a $700 version of the 5870. Quick, where do I sign up for those? :sarcastic: 


tuffluck said:
so why does everyone keep saying the new fermi's will drop the prices of the radeon 5xxx cards then?


Because they've got it backwards. Any nvidia card over about $100 sells at about a 20% price premium right now, and it doesn't look like that's about to change. The only competitive pressure would be for Nvidia's prices to come down because ATI is lower, not the other way around. But good luck waiting for that to happen ... see you in 2012.

Note that this does not rule out prices of the 5xxx dropping on their own, just because it was due. I think that's a distinct possibility especially with the 58xx cards.
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February 25, 2010 7:58:08 PM

i've thought about getting the msi card, only because it looks cool and otherwise they all seem the same to me. anyone have any thoughts/recommendations? also it looks like this one was built to be OC'd, which could come in useful down the road when an otherwise upgrade would be necessary...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
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a b U Graphics card
February 25, 2010 8:14:51 PM

tuffluck said:
i've thought about getting the msi card, only because it looks cool and otherwise they all seem the same to me. anyone have any thoughts/recommendations? also it looks like this one was built to be OC'd, which could come in useful down the road when an otherwise upgrade would be necessary...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

That card caught my eye as well. There are a few reviews out there on it. It has a nice heat pipe cooler with copper base? (i think). VR tweaks/heavy duty, controller chip that allows voltage increase. Very nice.

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a c 376 U Graphics card
February 25, 2010 8:28:25 PM

When people have a problem they are MUCH more likely to leave a review. That 9 people got a bad card shouldn't sway you imo. HIS is a good brand if you look for reviews and supposedly have very good customer service.
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a b U Graphics card
February 25, 2010 8:33:53 PM

There is not always a rhyme or reason to neweggs pricing, if you can wait it out, different models end up at different prices. There are 3 5770's higher priced than the hawk ? If it had free shipping, the 20 dollars, for that cooler/model would be as good as a deal as the cheaper model. They o/c the hawk almost 20% , which resulted in almost a 20% increase in varied games. I'm sure mileage may vary.
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a c 376 U Graphics card
February 25, 2010 8:39:18 PM

Yeah, there's almost always a handful of cards on newegg for every model you look at with an insane price. My guess they are there to catch the suckers that see more expensive and automatically assume that means it is better.
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February 25, 2010 8:48:41 PM

like i said earlier, a lot of them just seem to be the same thing to me. really comes down to price. the HIS definitely has more negative reviews than others, which is why i am shy about that particular one. $40ish cheaper is great, but if you get one DOA, by the time you pay to ship it back and wait for another, you may as well have bought a more expensive one from the get-go.
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a b U Graphics card
February 25, 2010 9:01:40 PM

Also read some of the reviews, the users say their tech saviness is 'high' their comments say otherwise.

I never trust NewEgg reviews, it's like reading a review in a school paper. :sarcastic: 
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February 25, 2010 9:05:59 PM

TheGreatGrapeApe said:
Also read some of the reviews, the users say their tech saviness is 'high' their comments say otherwise.

I never trust NewEgg reviews, it's like reading a review in a school paper. :sarcastic: 


so does that mean you like the HIS?
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a b U Graphics card
February 25, 2010 9:10:01 PM

Main thing to remember about the HIS (and part of why it is cheaper ) is it has only 1 DVI connector which means less chance of using it for Eyefinity ! - though it also means it only takes a single slot on the backplate.
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a b U Graphics card
February 25, 2010 9:35:52 PM

Who even use eyefinity?
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February 25, 2010 10:19:11 PM

you can't use an hdmi for eyefinity, it has to be two dvi's? i hook my pc monitor and my tv up to my pc, not a dual monitor-like setup, just use whichever room i am in. will the HIS work for that?
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a b U Graphics card
February 26, 2010 12:07:47 AM

tuffluck said:
you can't use an hdmi for eyefinity, it has to be two dvi's? i hook my pc monitor and my tv up to my pc, not a dual monitor-like setup, just use whichever room i am in. will the HIS work for that?


Yes - it has the HDMI connector and a single DVI connector so will work for that fine !
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a c 230 U Graphics card
February 26, 2010 12:21:27 AM

The 5770 was outperformed (10%) by both the 260 and 4870, the result being prices on those were driven up into the stratosphere. The 260 GTX is $60 more than it was when the 5770 came out. The 4870 is now returning to the $155 level it was when the 5770 was released. With the 260's price still in the clouds, the 5770's main competition is the 4870.

Here's how the market breaks down:

I wanna play DX10 games and don't much care about DX11 or PhysX at this point - The 4870 is your card up to and including 1920 x 1200

I wanna play DX10 games, don't much care about DX11 and I might wanna mess around w/ Physx at some time - The 260 is your card up to and including 1920 x 1200, except when ya play PhysX, gonna have to drop resolution down to 1650. You could buy a 4870 (or a 5770) and add a GT 220 as dedicated PhysX card later for about $10 more and that should get you PhysX at 1920 res.

I wanna play Dx11 games and don't give a hoot about PhysX - The 5770 is your card up to 1650 resolution. For 1920 res, go 58xx series.


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a c 376 U Graphics card
February 26, 2010 12:43:50 AM

The HD5770 is fine for 1920x1080 and please man, get over your irrational hatred for the card or at least don't spread it around. From what I've read with current drivers the HD5770 matches or beats the HD4870(it was stated in one of the HD5570 reviews, cant remember which or I would link it for you.) It's a better buy than either of the other cards unless you really, really want physx.
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a b U Graphics card
February 26, 2010 12:45:02 AM

tuffluck said:
so does that mean you like the HIS?


Not because of that.

But yes I like HIS, I like MSI, I like Gigabyte and some Sapphires, and some ASUS.

My main point being I wouldn't put any value in what NewEgg 'reviewers' write. :pfff: 
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February 26, 2010 1:27:25 PM

i built my PC 2 years ago for SC2 (obviously premature). i am not a huge gamer anymore, so the liklihood of me playing another game after SC2 in the next 5 years is reasonably small (besides COD4 and TF2 occassionally, unless another CS/COD4 massively popular first-person shooter comes out again). i don't even play single player games. also that means i probably won't build another PC for a while either. i know my e6750 can OC pretty good, and i have an aftermarket cooler to do that...that will probably be my "upgrade" in another year...

anyway, i think dx11 might be nice in a card since i probably won't upgrade for a while. i may as well have a card that can run the games i want it to run well right now, and in the future, albeit will be an inferior card, but still be able to run dx11 when it needs to if at that time i'm not ready to invest the money to upgrade.
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a c 230 U Graphics card
March 1, 2010 7:02:36 PM

jyjjy said:
The HD5770 is fine for 1920x1080 and please man, get over your irrational hatred for the card or at least don't spread it around. From what I've read with current drivers the HD5770 matches or beats the HD4870(it was stated in one of the HD5570 reviews, cant remember which or I would link it for you.)


Despite a lengthy search I can find no evidence of this alleged driver improvement in print. All I have seen is conjecture none of which is supported by a published article. Hardware is a numbers game, it's not a religion ..... doesn't involve love, hate, faith or belief .... it has the numbers or it don't.....if it's got the numbers, they are usually easy to find.

http://www.hardwareheaven.com/reviews.php?reviewid=902&...

5770 on Dirt 2 (1920 x 1080 4AA)
15 fps minimum
24 fps average
54 fps maximum

http://www.hardwareheaven.com/reviews.php?reviewid=855&...

BattleForge (1920 x 1080 4AA) 10-13-09:
14 fps minimum
20 fps average
31 fps maximum

Now we have overclocked versions tested at the end of January. Can't compare the results directly as they turned off AA in Dirt 2 for the testing in the OC'd cards article but what we can compare is the performance of the reference 5770 from their original test with the new overclocked one with these improved drivers.

http://www.hardwareheaven.com/reviews.php?reviewid=921&...

The original ATI 5770 scores a 33 min fps; the overclocked Saphire Vapor X scores a 34 while the overclocked Powercolor gets a 35....With 3 months of driver improvements, while I see some benefit from overclocking, I sure am not seeing this improvements you speak of.

Steering people to this card with the claim that it will "future proof" them for DX11 at HD resolutions is irresponsible. If it can't maintain a minimum of 30 fps in Dirt 2 w/ only a minimal implementation of DX11, so much so that you can't tell the difference between playing under DX9, how is going to handle games when DX11 is heavily implemented ?

Quote:
It's a better buy than either of the other cards unless you really, really want physx.


If you want Physx, either of the cards won't help you, only one of them, will
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March 1, 2010 7:43:16 PM

i couldn't find where the 4870 was really all that remarkably a better purchase than the 5770, and the 4890 is better but still without dx11 and more expensive. so i purchased the vapor-x for $155 and think it was the right choice. really my only other option was the 5850, and i didn't want to spend $300 since the rest of my system is 2 years old already anyway.
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March 1, 2010 8:05:29 PM

Good choice.
A 5850 would probably be bottlenecked by your CPU.
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March 1, 2010 8:07:54 PM

Best answer selected by tuffluck.
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a b U Graphics card
March 1, 2010 10:21:45 PM

JackNaylorPE said:
Despite a lengthy search I can find no evidence of this alleged driver improvement in print...


Hah! It may have been lengthy, but not a very good search..... :pfff: 

Quote:
...Now we have overclocked versions tested at the end of January. Can't compare the results directly as they turned off AA in Dirt 2 for the testing in the OC'd cards article but what we can compare is the performance of the reference 5770 from their original test with the new overclocked one with these improved drivers...

The original ATI 5770 scores a 33 min fps; the overclocked Saphire Vapor X scores a 34 while the overclocked Powercolor gets a 35....With 3 months of driver improvements, while I see some benefit from overclocking, I sure am not seeing this improvements you speak of.


Did you bother reading the article?
BOTH Dirt2 tests use Catalyst 9.12 drivers, so where is this 3 months you speak of?? :heink: 

Now if you even just look at the 10.1->10.2 improvement, you see it's gone up (not sure about the HD4870 assertion, but there's no doubting a driver boost since the launch of Dirt2);
http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/17754/1/
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1216/6/




Didn't take long to check either (about 30 seconds in Google [Dirt2+10.2]), so not sure how good your 'Lengthy Search' was. [:thegreatgrapeape:5]

Quote:
Steering people to this card with the claim that it will "future proof" them for DX11 at HD resolutions is irresponsible. If it can't maintain a minimum of 30 fps in Dirt 2 w/ only a minimal implementation of DX11, so much so that you can't tell the difference between playing under DX9, how is going to handle games when DX11 is heavily implemented ?


Probably better, since they will actually make use of the benefits of DX11 more extensively instead of taking a base DX9 install and then sprinkling DX11 shininess ontop of that as an extra workload. Funny thing is your own link says;
"As the GTX range of cards from NVIDA does not support DirectX 11 the visual quality offered by the 260 is lower than the Radeons. As it has less work to do this allows the GTX to offer the fastest framerates, though the Radeons give the best experience. Both Sapphire and PowerColor give us completely smooth framerates and maximum image quality in addition to a boost in performance over the reference card."

Seems like they were happy with the performance and the boost in IQ. :sol: 

It's interesting that you changed your tune about it being Bandwidth limited when you were shown wrong on that, but now you're simply painting it with another wide DX11 brush because you've found another flag to try and carry forward. One that isn't even supported by the article you link to which found the DX11 implementation in Dirt2 to be smooth and better looking. Now what? :lol: 

It would be nice though if you didn't do likewise and think that all DX11 implementations would be like Dirt2, when it's simply the first to put the sticker on, just like COH2 in the DX10 generation, which no one would hold up as an example of the best implementation of DX10. :pfff: 

It's definitely better to get an HD5850 or higher, but it's not like either the HD5770 or HD5830 are kept out of the DX11 benefits, even @ HD 1080P.
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a b U Graphics card
March 1, 2010 11:25:48 PM

Theres a few people here who claim DX11 is costly, but after seeing these driver improvements, , it seems its clearing up, looking at 15-20% , like some have claimed, 20% hit has just been won back
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a b U Graphics card
March 2, 2010 12:20:21 AM

I'd say this chart pretty much shows there has been and is going to be some improvements made !! - The one I find interesting in that article is the upcoming 10.3 improvements :




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March 3, 2010 1:46:11 PM

there are some serious discussions going on here! since i'm the OP, if i may interject...

got my vapor-x 5770 yesterday. hooked it up and ran a few tests. tell me what you think.

my machine:
e6750 (stock)
6gb g.skill pc2-6400 5-5-5-15 (stock)
p35-ds3 gigabyte mobo
7,200 rpm WD HDD

compared to my radeon 3850:

7.4 in WEI 5770, 6.9 in WEI 3850
12,200 in 3dmark06 with 5770, 9,200 with 3850

COD4 definitely looks better and flows better (smoke, etc.) on 1680x1050 resolution, but i guess it doesn't look as fantastic as i was expecting. maybe it has maxed out all the fps that can be had in COD4, but still for such an upgrade i was expecting more. maybe i need to be playing newer, more powerful games?

i don't know what a ~3,000 increase on 3dmark06 means, but in my mind i'm almost thinking the upgrade wasn't worth the money spent? let me know your thoughts, thanks.
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a b U Graphics card
March 3, 2010 2:15:00 PM

Could be that your CPU is holding you back a bit in the performance - My AMD Phenom II 720 (unlocked to 4 cores) @ 3.2 Ghz. scores 15,811 with a sapphire 5770.

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March 3, 2010 2:19:05 PM

my cpu score is about 2,500, so almost half of yours. my 2d/3d numbers aren't as high as yours either, probably due to the processor slowing them down.

anybody with me on thinking if i'm not going to OC i should put the 3850 back in and return the 5770? it doesn't seem like the significant upgrade i was expecting.

i guess i don't mind OC'ing. i just like having a computer i know is stable and that i can leave running...
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a b U Graphics card
March 3, 2010 2:59:37 PM

What drivers are you using ? the latest from the ATI site or the ones that came with the card - the newer ones have also made some performance increases.

As far as whether to return it that is pretty much a decision you need to make and will depend on what games you play and plan on playing - the 3850 is a fairly decent card and will do a decent job on most games but will struggle with some of the newer games and does not support DX11 which many of the new games coming out will use so really depends on your plans for use.
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March 3, 2010 3:01:52 PM

Err, I don't quite get your problem?
Are you saying the image quality is not what you expected but you get more than enough fps?
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March 3, 2010 3:02:01 PM

10.2 drivers. well i plan to play SC2 when it comes out...that was the whole reason i got this card!! actually that was the whole reason i built my PC 2 years ago when they said they would release it in 2008!!!

does SC2 even run DX11?
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March 3, 2010 3:03:10 PM

1898 said:
Err, I don't quite get your problem?
Are you saying the image quality is not what you expected but you get more than enough fps?


i thought the results would be more impressive. like i said, maybe the COD4 game is being maxed by the card and i need a game with more graphics.

3,000 points in 3dmark06 doesn't sound significant though?
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March 3, 2010 3:27:46 PM

To simplify things:

Issue is
A) Not enough frames per second (fps)
B) Image quality is not as good as expected

A or B?

I assume B.

Have you turned on AA/AF?
But yeah, there are better looking games out there.
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