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Want to Get a Second Option

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January 23, 2013 12:57:03 AM

Hi,

I know you guys get a lot of these questions, but I was hoping to get a second option on my build. I've read the sticky (which was awesome) on this site and others, and I've plotted it all out on paper, but theory doesn't always translate to reality. I was hoping to get some opinions from people who have done this before. I'm not asking anyone to check the numbers (although feel free), just see if their are any holes in my logic, or offer some advice. Thanks in advance.

I'm looking to cool an Intel Core i7-3930K (possible overclocked) and two GTX-680s. I figure that's around 600 watts and I'd like a 10 degree delta. Based on user reviews and the numbers at Skinnee Labs I figured I'd go with the HWLabs Black Ice GTX 360 Radiator.

Based on his numbers with a flow rate of 0.8 GPM I'd need about 2400 RPMs to cool 600 Watts. With a 1.6 GPM rate I'd need about 1800 RPMs (More on this later). I can't find if he's using a push or push/pull. Martin's Liquid Labs has lower numbers, so I think it might be push/pull, which would tank the whole design. If anyone knows it would be much appreciated (and if he does do push/pull you can pretty much stop reading here). The link to his review is below

http://skinneelabs.com/hwlabs-gtx-360-radiator-review-d...

So, ideally I'd like to be able to do both, 2400 RPM and 1.6 GPM rate. The fans are the easiest, so lets start from there. I would imagine that the RPM isn't as important as air flow, but air flow would be harder to measure so RPM is used instead. So just buying a 2400 RPM fan wouldn't necessarily mean I got the same results, so I figured I go with the fan he used: Scythe Gentle Typhoon 120mm x 25mm Fan - 2150 RPM (not the exactly one, but the same series so the blade layout). Its not quite up to 2400, but I think I should be okay.

I'd like to mount them in a Coolmaster HAF X case. I've read mixed things about this. The best number that I could find was 80 mm clearance from top to MB. The radiator and fans come in at 79.5, so I should be tight, but good. Also, I don't think its the edge of the MB I have to be worried about as much as RAM and chips. I'd also like to leave the 200 mm fans on top to help make up for some of the lost RPMs. Anyone know if this is possible?

On to the CPU block. Pure over clock had a great review of the Koolance CPU-380i (http://www.pureoverclock.com/Review-detail/koolance-cpu...). As its a somewhat new block it was all I could find on it, but figured I'd go with that one.

Haven't decided on GPU blocks yet. Reviews seem to be harder to than CPUs. I'd imagine that there are a lot more of them, so makes sense. Considering the reviews the Koolance CPU-380i got, I figured I'd go with the Koolance GPU blocks as well.

Finally the Pump. Everyone seems to love the Swiftech MCP35X, so why not? At 1.6 GPM it has a dynamic head of over 6, which should be enough to get me through the radiator (1.4 at 1.6), the CPU block, (1.75 at 1.6) lets assume the GPU blocks at 1.25 X 2, with a little bit left over for reservoir, tubing, etc.


Well, that's pretty much it. My biggest questions are about the GTX 360. Namely, can it do 600 watts in a push configuration and if it can be mounted in a HAF X case with the 200 mm fans left in place. However, I'm open to any and all suggestions regarding any component, especially the GPU water blocks. I've tried to do as much as I can on my own, but wanted to run my design by experts before I made a big mistake. Thanks again for your time.

More about : option

a c 324 K Overclocking
January 23, 2013 1:25:52 AM

With stock CPU and GPUs, I think you'd be fine. Anything overclocked, you should consider more radiator space. Depending on fans you decide on, realize that 2400 RPM is 'noisy' by most standards but it really depends if you care much. I have some 2000 and 3000 RPM Ultra Kaze's and on full speed, they can be fairly noisy, but they aren't always dialed up that high as I have them all on a fan controller. If you ran push/pull fans with lower speed fans, this might be a decent alternative to get 6, cheaper, lower performing fans (1500-1800 RPM) vs. 3, more expensive, higher end fans in the 2000-3000 RPM range. This would give you comparable airflow of single fans in push with lower noise levels.

Just an option.

Full cover blocks are more difficult to find reviews on, so it's a little more research intensive. Much is preference, but there is something to say about ensuring the flow rates you want and temp differences that are acceptable. Running SLI blocks in parallel is common, but serial is also a good option if you have the head and flow to do so. A MCP35x should do well in this loop, so it's a good pick.


By the way, excellent homework and research...this will go a long way.
a c 176 K Overclocking
January 23, 2013 1:29:00 AM

First off, I haven't entirely gotten my head around the numbers yet, so I wont be much help in the nitty gritty of it, but I can help in the general sense.

That is a lot of heat to dissipate through one radiator, best case scenario you will be running three ~2000RPM fans. That will be ridiculously loud, no fan is going to be quiet at those kind of speeds. My fans can go to a max of 1650RPM, and they are noticeably loud at that speed, most of the time I have them turned low probably closer to 1000RPM. I'm not even sure if you can dissipate 600W from the one radiator, yet alone a slim 360 rad, not even in push/pull.

Long story short, you need more radiator. There are a couple ways to do this.
- Put a 120/140mm rad on the rear fan mount, but that's still insufficient so I wouldn't bother.
- Externally mount a 240/360mm off the back of the case, using those grommeted holes to run tubing.
- Remove the HDD cage and have a square 200mm radiator mounted on the front fan.
- Remove the HDD cage and have a 240mm mounted where it used to be, this will also free up a lot of room for the pump and reservoir.
- Some kind of rad-box solution, where you run tubing outside the case to a separate box full of radiators. It could be put anywhere, but a common place is under the floorboards.

Also if you want to see what water-cooling in the HAF-X will be like, check my build log, its linked in my sig. Will help you visualize how everything will go together.
Related resources
January 23, 2013 9:46:53 AM

Quote:
Depending on fans you decide on, realize that 2400 RPM is 'noisy' by most standards but it really depends if you care much.


First, thanks for the reply. I should have been a bit more specific on how I want to run the fans. I want to be able to run at 2400 if I need it, but would prefer to run slower. I plan on using a 6 channel fan controller to keep me around 1800, but boost when needed. The fans are rated at 30 dBA, so I was hoping that running them at 1800 (around 80%) would drop me to 25 or 26.

Quote:
If you ran push/pull fans with lower speed fans, this might be a decent alternative to get 6, cheaper, lower performing fans (1500-1800 RPM) vs. 3, more expensive, higher end fans in the 2000-3000 RPM range. This would give you comparable airflow of single fans in push with lower noise levels.


At first I didn't think I could run a GTX in push/pull due to spacing issues, but after checking out manofchalks build log I now see how its possible to run with three on the outside of the case, so will do that.

Quote:
Running SLI blocks in parallel is common, but serial is also a good option if you have the head and flow to do so.


When you say parallel do you mean CPU then spilt, one to each GPU, then rejoin or do you mean CPU to GPU 1, then two flows to GPU 2, then rejoin? Thanks again for all your help!

Quote:
My fans can go to a max of 1650RPM, and they are noticeably loud at that speed, most of the time I have them turned low probably closer to 1000RPM. I'm not even sure if you can dissipate 600W from the one radiator, yet alone a slim 360 rad, not even in push/pull.


Thanks, that's really good to know. I've never really measured the RPM of my fans before, I wasn't sure just how loud 1800 could really be. My though is this: It would be quieter to run a 2200 RPM fan at 1800, than an 1800 fan at 1800, but I may be completely off. The radiator is 54 mm, so I didn't think it was that thin. I actually though it was one of the thicker ones, but my experience is limited. Will look into it.

Quote:
Remove the HDD cage and have a 240mm mounted where it used to be, this will also free up a lot of room for the pump and reservoir.


I have been considering that. I just have a couple hard drives and wasn't sure where I was going to put them if I removed it. If I can get away with removing half of it that should work. Maybe put in a 240 with low FPI to run at 1000-1400, then run to the 360 on top.

Quote:
Also if you want to see what water-cooling in the HAF-X will be like, check my build log, its linked in my sig. Will help you visualize how everything will go together.


Awesome! Thank you very much, its been helpful already. Mind if I ask whats in your top drive bay? Is it a fan controller and if so which one? Thanks!
a c 176 K Overclocking
January 23, 2013 10:36:49 AM

................................ -> GPU 1 ->
Something -> Split <...................... > Merge -> Whatever's next.
................................. -> GPU 2 ->

Could be something else entirely, just my guess.

You could use the hot swap bays on the case, or get nifty and see if you can mount them behind the mobo tray.

An NZXT Sentry Mix fan controller.
Unfortunately they may have been discontinued, as I'v noticed that its been disappearing from retailers. So you might have to search around for one if your interested in getting one.

EDIT: Wow my ASCII diagram worked!
a b K Overclocking
January 24, 2013 1:41:43 AM

Quote:
First, thanks for the reply. I should have been a bit more specific on how I want to run the fans. I want to be able to run at 2400 if I need it, but would prefer to run slower. I plan on using a 6 channel fan controller to keep me around 1800, but boost when needed. The fans are rated at 30 dBA, so I was hoping that running them at 1800 (around 80%) would drop me to 25 or 26.


Sounds reasonable. The noise also depends on what fans you use. I used to have 3000 RPM Scythe Ultra Kaze fans, and when running around 2k they were fairly quiet (the air moving is loud, but the motors are not), due to their lower tone.

Also, a thicker fan like some of the 120x38mm fans (like the Ultra Kazes) will do better throttled down vs. the thinner 120x25 simply because the blades are bigger and can move more are per revolution. Not sure if it will fit, but something to consider.

Quote:
When you say parallel do you mean CPU then spilt, one to each GPU, then rejoin or do you mean CPU to GPU 1, then two flows to GPU 2, then rejoin? Thanks again for all your help!


Manofchalk's diagram is pretty much spot on. I wonder how many times you had to edit that to get it just right ;) 

Quote:
I have been considering that. I just have a couple hard drives and wasn't sure where I was going to put them if I removed it. If I can get away with removing half of it that should work. Maybe put in a 240 with low FPI to run at 1000-1400, then run to the 360 on top.


There are 5.25" to 3.5" bay adapters, which are an option if you have free 5.25" drive bays.

As far as controllers go, I used a Scythe Kaze controller (coincidentally enough with the Ultra Kazes) and it worked well. Supports 6 fans and temperature monitors (though those are always a pain to mount).

I used to have an NZXT Sentry 2 and it was ok. A little bright for my taste.
January 26, 2013 4:15:09 PM

Thanks again for the replies. I did a bit more research into radiators and decided to stick with the GTX 360. There are some that are more efficient at lower RPMs, but they are thicker and I won't be able to run them in push/pull. I figure having a slightly less efficient radiator in push/pull will probably net more heat dissipation then a slightly more efficient radiator in pull.

I'm still going to go with the 2250 RPM Scythe Gentle Typhoons. With the push/pull I shouldn't need 2250 rpms, but I'd like to have them if I need them, plus at max they are 2 dB louder than the 1850. I estimate that I should be able to run them at 1200-1400 to get the heat dissipation that I need, so noise shouldn't be too much of an issue.

I looked into the Noiseblocker XL2 and eloop, and they seemed like they would be a good choice as well, but everyone seems to love the GTs, so I figured I can't go wrong. However, if anyone has an experience with them, I'd love to hear it.

I'm planning on controlling the fans using the Sunbeam Controller so I can make use of the PWM signal from the MB. Hopefully it will fit in the top drive bay with the radiator, but if not then I'll just use another.

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/12481/bus-247/Sunbeam...

Everything is pretty much the same. Same Blocks and Pump. Going to hold off on the second radiator for now. If this doesn't work I can add it in later.

Figure I'll use 7/16 x 5/8 tubing with the Monsoon Free Center Compression fittings, because I like the way they look and the reviews have been pretty good. I'm not a very big fan of the really thick tubing, so I went with 7/16 as a happy medium between 3/8 and 1/2, but is there any reason I couldn't use 3/8? Does it make that much of a difference?

Thanks again.
!