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Thief 3 (PC) lighting/ai doesn't seem to work correctly

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August 21, 2004 9:16:31 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.thief-dark-project (More info?)

I'm only on the second mission (Lord Ember's mansion) and I've already come
across some issues with Thief 3's lighting.

Even on the first (training) map, the brightness of walls will change
instantaneously depending on the angle you view them at. And it isn't just
one or two walls, a lot of them do this, and it can be confusing to figure
out what the actual brightness of the area is without going off and running
into it.

The other issue is, sometimes I'll be standing still with the light gem at
full darkness, and somebody walking nearby (not RIGHT next to me, just near,
well outside of bj range) will spot me, and not only that, they go
immediately into alarm mode rather than searching/suspicious mode. Though
usually they don't see me at all. I think that the light gem is either
broken in some cases or perhaps the characters in question are able to see
things that they shouldn't.

Furthermore, if a guard becomes suspicious (not alarmed) and then goes back
to his post, sometimes I can't bj him. I'll sneak up and club him but he
responds like it was an open attack. He won't go down, he'll just draw his
weapon and engage me. And I'll actually stand there for a few seconds to
make sure I'm not accidentally bumping into him or making noise. He'll be
completely oblivious right up until I strike him and he just becomes alert.
Again, usually this doesn't happen and I can club him successfully.

These kind of inconsistencies are really distracting and disappointing given
how vital the lighting and ai behaviors are to the gameplay. I don't
remember having these issues in Thief 1 or 2. Thief 3 seems like a good game
content-wise but they really slipped on the technical stuff. Eidos should
not have let it out of QA in this kind of shape. Has anyone else experienced
these things?

Patching did not help, btw.
August 21, 2004 11:19:58 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.thief-dark-project (More info?)

On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 05:16:31 GMT, "k" <no@mail.com> wrote:

>I'm only on the second mission (Lord Ember's mansion) and I've already come
>across some issues with Thief 3's lighting.
>
>Even on the first (training) map, the brightness of walls will change
>instantaneously depending on the angle you view them at. And it isn't just
>one or two walls, a lot of them do this, and it can be confusing to figure
>out what the actual brightness of the area is without going off and running
>into it.
>
>The other issue is, sometimes I'll be standing still with the light gem at
>full darkness, and somebody walking nearby (not RIGHT next to me, just near,
>well outside of bj range) will spot me, and not only that, they go
>immediately into alarm mode rather than searching/suspicious mode. Though
>usually they don't see me at all. I think that the light gem is either
>broken in some cases or perhaps the characters in question are able to see
>things that they shouldn't.
>
>Furthermore, if a guard becomes suspicious (not alarmed) and then goes back
>to his post, sometimes I can't bj him. I'll sneak up and club him but he
>responds like it was an open attack. He won't go down, he'll just draw his
>weapon and engage me. And I'll actually stand there for a few seconds to
>make sure I'm not accidentally bumping into him or making noise. He'll be
>completely oblivious right up until I strike him and he just becomes alert.
>Again, usually this doesn't happen and I can club him successfully.
>
>These kind of inconsistencies are really distracting and disappointing given
>how vital the lighting and ai behaviors are to the gameplay. I don't
>remember having these issues in Thief 1 or 2. Thief 3 seems like a good game
>content-wise but they really slipped on the technical stuff. Eidos should
>not have let it out of QA in this kind of shape. Has anyone else experienced
>these things?
>
>Patching did not help, btw.
>
The lighting problem oocurs with some Radeon Graphic card drivers
(Catalyst 4.5, 4.6 & 4.7). Catalyst 4.4, 4.8 and 4.9 beta drivers
all work OK.
Anonymous
August 21, 2004 5:49:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.thief-dark-project (More info?)

>
> Furthermore, if a guard becomes suspicious (not alarmed) and then goes back
> to his post, sometimes I can't bj him. I'll sneak up and club him but he
> responds like it was an open attack. He won't go down, he'll just draw his
> weapon and engage me. And I'll actually stand there for a few seconds to
> make sure I'm not accidentally bumping into him or making noise. He'll be
> completely oblivious right up until I strike him and he just becomes alert.
> Again, usually this doesn't happen and I can club him successfully.
>
> These kind of inconsistencies are really distracting and disappointing given
> how vital the lighting and ai behaviors are to the gameplay. I don't
> remember having these issues in Thief 1 or 2. Thief 3 seems like a good game
> content-wise but they really slipped on the technical stuff. Eidos should
> not have let it out of QA in this kind of shape. Has anyone else experienced
> these things?
>
> Patching did not help, btw.
>
>
I have experienced the same inconsistencies and people have posted about
this issue since the game came out first in the US.
Probably best to save often and go back to before guard got slightly
suspicious.

--
Democracy has yet to be achieved.
Related resources
August 21, 2004 10:05:45 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.thief-dark-project (More info?)

"Spud" <spud@tatties.com> wrote in message
news:D 4qdi0tag9roi6usohhno68puj96j5tsj9@4ax.com...
> The lighting problem oocurs with some Radeon Graphic card drivers
> (Catalyst 4.5, 4.6 & 4.7). Catalyst 4.4, 4.8 and 4.9 beta drivers
> all work OK.
>

Ah, got it. Actually I saw the post above about Radeon issues and clued in.
I had just downloaded drivers (new card) a week ago and didn't think to look
for an update that soon. And wow, it makes a huge difference -- it's not
just the walls that were off-color, but entire rooms had errant lighting.
When I played it again, the rooms were much darker in general and light
sources were much more pronounced. Now it's Thief again. Yay.
Anonymous
August 22, 2004 3:44:09 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.thief-dark-project (More info?)

"k" <no@mail.com> writes:
> I think that the light gem is either
> broken in some cases or perhaps the characters in question are able to see
> things that they shouldn't.

No, the guards are much better at spotting you than in Thief 1 and 2.
Even if the light gem is completely dark, you can still be seen if
the guards are close enough. Your silhouette might show, or you
may have a stray shadow sanding out, etc. In Thief 1 and 2 the guards
could be a almost touching you and yet never catch on; if the guards
get within a yard of you or so in Thief 3 and facing towards you, then
you'll probably be spotted.

> I'll sneak up and club him but he
> responds like it was an open attack. He won't go down, he'll just draw his
> weapon and engage me.

Are you sure you're really blackjacking him correctly? Ie, you must
be behind him, not to the sides, and your hand with the blackjack must
raise by itself to indicate that you're in position.

--
Darin Johnson
Luxury! In MY day, we had to make do with 5 bytes of swap...
August 23, 2004 7:05:33 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.thief-dark-project (More info?)

"Darin Johnson" <darin_@_usa_._net> wrote in message
news:cu1d61kawij.fsf@nokia.com...
> No, the guards are much better at spotting you than in Thief 1 and 2.
> Even if the light gem is completely dark, you can still be seen if
> the guards are close enough. Your silhouette might show, or you
> may have a stray shadow sanding out, etc. In Thief 1 and 2 the guards
> could be a almost touching you and yet never catch on; if the guards
> get within a yard of you or so in Thief 3 and facing towards you, then
> you'll probably be spotted.

No, many guards have come within "almost touching" range and didn't do
anything. Even the guards that did touch me still get suspicious first,
before going into alert mode. Guards have never caught on to my shadow as
far as I can tell, but if it is the shadow that's setting them off, and I
can't see my own shadow, then it's just a different bug. Either way.

> Are you sure you're really blackjacking him correctly? Ie, you must
> be behind him, not to the sides, and your hand with the blackjack must
> raise by itself to indicate that you're in position.

Yes, I'm sure. As I said, usually it doesn't happen, sometimes it does. And
you don't _have_ to raise the blackjack to be in blackjacking position. I've
done it many times without the visual cue. Especially when doing a running
blackjack.
Anonymous
August 24, 2004 1:59:13 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.thief-dark-project (More info?)

"k" <no@mail.com> writes:

> No, many guards have come within "almost touching" range and didn't do
> anything.

Were they looking in your direction? I've found that they often see
me if they are close stare in my direction long enough, even when the
light gem is dark. Which is expected because the game designers
said it would happen. They're _supposed_ to spot you more easily
than in Thief 1 and 2.

And the guards still aren't smart enough, not really. If I can
see Garret in third person mode then I'd hope that the guards
could also.

--
Darin Johnson
"Floyd here now!"
!