Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

Sabertooth Z77 - Which temp sensor to believe

Last response: in Overclocking
Share
January 27, 2013 8:22:40 PM

I just finished building my first system and after reading a few hundred posts on how to OC I think I may have something decent here but I'm worried my temp sensors are not accurate which could cause damage. I have an ASUS Sabertooth Z77 with an i7 3770K running at (so far) 4.5Ghz and 1.190v. I'm cooling with a Corsair H50 set up in push/pull using two NB eLoop B12-PS fans.

I'm 5 hours into Prime95 and the ASUS AI Suite II "Thermal Radar" says one thing while OCCT and Core Temp each say something different.

Thermal Radar is the coolest with it never exceeding 50C and currently it's at 44C
OCCT reports currently 68C
Core Temp reports (this is where I'm concerned because SO many people swear by this one) - Core 0 60C, Core 1 64C, Core 2 60C, Core 3 58C - The hottest MAX value is Core 1 and 79C

Thermal Radar also monitors the GPU temp and says it's 36C in an attempt to make the Thermal Radar (and great numbers) more believable I checked the GPU temp with the latest Precision X utility from EVGA which reports the GTS 450 (stock settings) at a solid 31C.

For what it's worth, I set the BIOS voltage to 1.190, TR reports Vcore as 1.202v, OCCT reports as 1.2v and Core Temp reports 1.1909v - again, from what I've read, anything under 1.25v should be fine but I like the sub 1.2 number if I can keep it truly 1.190.

So, which sensor should I believe? Does anyone have similar experience with the z77 or AIsuiteII? If it truly is pushing 80C that concerns me. From your experience taking all the other data into account, what are your thoughts, comments, concerns? Thanks very much in advance!
January 27, 2013 10:53:16 PM

The CPU temperature that ASUS AI Suite II reports is quite frankly useless. It reports temperature data from a sensor that long ago became irrelevant.

The only temperature that is important to monitor on an Intel CPU is the peak core temperature. This is reported by Core Temp or RealTemp or CPUID HWMonitor. Take your pic. When your CPU is fully loaded during a stress test, your peak CPU core temperature is going to be far higher than the sensor that AI Suite II is reporting its data from.

Core Temp 1.0 RC4
http://www.alcpu.com/CoreTemp/

RealTemp T|I Edition
http://www.overclock.net/t/1330144/realtemp-t-i-edition

CPUID HWMonitor
http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/hwmonitor.html

Intel 3rd Generation Ivy Bridge CPUs can run reliably up to 105C. A peack core temperature of 80C sounds like a lot but it is well within the capabilities of this CPU. Here's a 3570K happily running both the CPU and GPU fully loaded with Prime95 and Furmark at over 100C.

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/6216/torturetest.png
m
0
l
January 28, 2013 12:10:13 AM

Thanks UncleWebb! - I feel much better now.

9 hours into Prime95 this is what I'm seeing with RealTemp T|I edition. (and everything else I had running previously) - Under 70C stable, mostly 64-66. 25C/77F Ambient by the way.

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/9972/testafter8hrsp95....

We will see how we do the next 3 then if OK after 12hrs on P95 I think I'm in fairly good shape for anything I plan to throw at it in normal use. I haven't yet run the IBT - was actually a little scared to after the warning "Not for beginning Overclockers" (which this is my first try at OCing or even building) so I went with p95 which I understand is the marathon of the two. So assuming I survive the marathon, do you think I'm ready to try the 100meter sprint (IBT)?

FYI: RealTemp was only just added about 8.5 hours into the test, other monitors have been running since the beginning.

Thanks again.
m
0
l
Related resources
a b K Overclocking
January 28, 2013 12:40:30 AM

+1 HW Monitor
m
0
l
a b K Overclocking
January 28, 2013 12:54:40 AM

Hi,
I have the SAME motherboard and CPU.

*You MAY wish to print the following for reference and modify it to suit your needs. Getting the optimal noise/power setup can be a little confusing.

The ASUS AI2 software is measuring a MOTHERBOARD sensor next to the CPU. It's completely useless as under load you can easily get a 20degC difference (i.e. 40degC motherboard and 60degC for the CPU internally).

*Asus Z77 Sabertooth tips:
1. My computer CRASHED when installing the Asus software suite for the motherboard. I had to insert Windows 8 (a W8 issue?) disc, and troubleshoot to do a SYSTEM RESTORE recover (last Restore Point).

So I had to install THERMAL RADAR separately but I don't require the other software anyway.

2. ASSIST FANS:
They are NOT silent. However, you can use Thermal Radar to set them to be DISABLED until needed. I have them disabled until 50degC (which I never get to). I have them turn on for 1 minute during shut down.

3. CPU and Case fans:
- the Sabertooth has only PWM fan control, so 3-pin Voltage fans can't be controlled (though it seems like it in Thermal Radar).
- if you don't have PWM fans, consider replacing them and adjust your fan profile for optimal noise control.
- *Sabertooth control of CPU is 20% minimum fan speed and Case Fans are 40%. My case fans can go from 300RPM to 1800RPM (PWM fans) but in reality the minimum with this motherboard is about 700RPM. I have two front case fans but MAY remove one. Other options include low-noise control but the fans I have are very quiet anyway.
- most noise in the case come from the GRAPHICS card fan, CPU fans (with no speed control) or case fans running higher than needed (HIGHEST of 3-speed, or no control of a high-speed fan).

4. AIR FLOW?
*Optimal air flow needs the INTAKE of air to be the same as the EXHAUST. Be sure to have at least ONE front fan. The i7-3770K is running VERY COOL. A single CPU fan, single Case Fan (near CPU) and single FRONT case fan should be fine but this may change in hot SUMMER conditions.
**Don't forget to BLOCK any side or top fan mounts with no fans. These open holes redirect air flow inefficiently.

4. BIOS:
1708 provided completely UNSTABLE for me. Rolling back to the previous BIOS is stable. It may depend on what hardware you have as 1708 is supposed to be MORE stable. Sigh.

5. OVERCLOCKING:
I used the BIOS overtune function (forget name). It does a slight overclock on my 3770K while still keeping all the POWER MANAGEMENT features (not kept for larger overclocks). You need to verify your RAM is still set correctly too. I found TWO ways to do this:
a)
CPU-> quick overclock to 4.1GHz (hits this in TURBO MODE, but drops to 1600MHz in Idle)
RAM-> profile to XMP1 (in my case 2133MHz and proper timings)

b)
CPU-> quick overclock 4.23GHz (same as above, power management etc)

RAM-> had to MANUALLY adjust frequency to 2133MHz (simply hitting "XMP" set both the RAM and the CPU back to the defaults so the CPU would jump back to 3.9GHz Turbo).

*My advice is to consider the 4.23GHz option (while maintaining power management). There's likely NOT much real-world (i.e. gaming) advantage to a higher CPU clock. Add in fan speed control and your computer can run very quiet in idle.

SUMMARY:
- ignore the Asus' CPU sensor (motherboard, not internal CPU)
- CPU/Case fan control
- ASSIST fan settings
- BIOS for stability
- CPU overclocking (and power management)
m
0
l
January 28, 2013 1:31:40 AM

Here's an example at full load on my Asus P8Z77-V Pro board.

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/2300/realtempaisuite.png

The CPU temperature that AI Suite II reports is 21C less than the peak core temperature. Intel uses information from the CPU core temperature sensors to control thermal throttling and thermal shutdown. That's the data you need to keep an eye on.

As photonboy points out, the sensor that Asus is reporting its temperature data from is useless information.
m
0
l
January 28, 2013 10:32:43 AM

Quote:
4. AIR FLOW?
*Optimal air flow needs the INTAKE of air to be the same as the EXHAUST. Be sure to have at least ONE front fan. The i7-3770K is running VERY COOL. A single CPU fan, single Case Fan (near CPU) and single FRONT case fan should be fine but this may change in hot SUMMER conditions.
**Don't forget to BLOCK any side or top fan mounts with no fans. These open holes redirect air flow inefficiently.'


I hadn't mentioned my other case fans before because I didn't think they were all that important to the question I was asking, but here goes.

Bottom - None - there are mounts for 120mm and 140 mm but by my Corsair HX1000 PSU is too long to get one in.

Front - 2x120mm Aerocool Shark (Intake) - Controlled by case mainly cooling the HDDs

Side - 1x140mm Aerocool Shark (Intake) - Controlled by MOBO (3-pin, so powered but no control) which is fine as this is the main fan keeping the RAM cool.

Rear - This is the intake for the 2 NB eLoop B-12PS in push/pull for the H50. (Intake)- PWM Controlled by MOBO

Top - Exhaust - 2x120mm Cougar CF-V12HP (Exhaust) - Controlled by case

I keep it about 4ft from my workspace. I don't really hear the fan motors, just the noise of air being moved around.

Thanks again to all.
m
0
l
a b K Overclocking
January 28, 2013 1:27:04 PM

You've got tonnes of cooling.

If noise doesn't bother you than don't change anything, however the ideal setup would be 4-pin PWM fans with a fan profile rather than case fans.

The following fan (Canadian link) is an example of a great case fan for this motherboard. The motherboard fan minimum for PWM case fans is 40% of fan maximum. This fan is 400RPM to 1350RPM.
http://www.ncix.com/products/?sku=24331&vpn=AFACO-120P0...

So if you replaced the TOP and FRONT fans with these and set things up correctly you'd have them spinning at about 540RPM on low. I'd set the ramp from 40degC (540RPM) to 70degC (1350RPM).

Assist fans:
Again, these little fans produce an annoying buzz. Set the fan profile to set them OFF until 50degC. They aren't really needed with proper case cooling but might as well set things up just in case (i.e. summer heat wave).

H60:
The INTAKE method (one fan only) provides slightly better cooling, however that hot air is being blown INTO the case then the case fans have to exhaust it. The OVERALL noise actually rises this way.

The IDEAL method of cooling is a push-pull with both fans pointing to EXHAUST the radiators heat outside the case. Not only doesn't this increase CPU cooling, but the heat from the CPU never affects the rest of the case.

SUMMARY:
- if noise doesn't bother you don't change anything
- 4-pin PWM fans would reduce noise
- Assist fans OFF below 50degC
m
0
l
January 29, 2013 3:23:58 AM

Thanks Photonboy.

Quote:
The IDEAL method of cooling is a push-pull with both fans pointing to EXHAUST the radiators heat outside the case. Not only doesn't this increase CPU cooling, but the heat from the CPU never affects the rest of the case.


The noise doesn't bother me, but if my push/pull isn't as effective as it should be or the heat from the CPU is making the internal ambient temp higher than it needs to be then I want to make that adjustment.

I get that it's good to exhaust as much hot air as soon as possible but I'm wondering how pushing hot air from the case through the radiator works for efficient cooling? It seems at least to me, the most effective cooling would come from cooler (outside) air on the radiator. Of course if the CPU air is exhausted immediately then the internal air might not be as warm to begin with...? If I've done this backwards, I just need to turn them around if this is the recommended setup for push/pull to exhaust them? Anyone have experience here?

For what it's worth I passed the 24-hour P95 at 70C with a couple of momentary spikes to 80C but mostly 64-74C was my temp range under full load at 28%OC to 4.5Ghz.

Thanks again to everyone for your help.

BTW: Photonboy, there is a new BIOS 1805 - revised 1/10/13 - its what I'm running. If you didn't like 1708, you might give this new one a shot.
m
0
l
!