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8800GT died, is 196.75 to blame?

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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March 8, 2010 4:41:59 AM

On 3/3 at about 2:30am I was playing an FPS online when my screen locked up with a bunch of red 'w's all over it. I was forced perform a hard shutdown on my computer. When it rebooted, and ever since, there are artifacts all over the screen; The configuration and color of the artifacts seems to be tied to the resolution and color depth. After my first reboot and seeing all of this for the first time, I knew my card was probably dead (in fact I was lucky to see anything), but I tried a few things to save it. I could not start the Nvidia control panel (says I have no Nvidia card in my computer). Control panel reported an error, and so stopped the device. I tried to rollback the driver. No luck. So I tried to update the driver.
Since then, I have found out about the 196.75 driver issues, and it sounds like it could be the cause of my problem. But I do not know what driver I had when the problem occured. As I said, I did some messing with the driver in a fruitless effort to fix my card, so when I look in the Nvidia directory and the only folders I see are for 186.16 and 196.34, I'm not sure that it means anything.

Can anyone tell me how I might find out if I had the 196.75 drivers installed when my system crashed?

More about : 8800gt died 196 blame

March 8, 2010 2:49:03 PM

If your card has physically died, it will be interesting to see how Nvidia handles this. Your card was an older card and could have died for a number of reasons... so to say the driver did it would be a stretch... but at the same time, it is possible that a lower speed fan profile could have been the straw that broke an old camel's back.
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March 8, 2010 5:02:40 PM

Right, thats why I want to find out if I even had that driver running when it died. The timing of it failing and the news break on the drivers could be nothing but coincidence, but I might write a complaint to Nvidia if I was running the drivers when it died. I've had the card for like 2 years and was planning a replacement as soon as fermi came out, but for the time being I am out a card. I have done a little 'experimenting' with overclocking the card in the past, but it was not overclocked when it failed. In fact, it had not been overclocked in awhile. I am still able to use it as a basic VGA card, but with artifacts on the screen (like in windows vertical lines or random lines/pixels during boot); im guessing its a shader problem from.

Anyone got any suggestions for how to find out what drivers I was running when it failed?
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March 8, 2010 5:20:55 PM

If your card is not even recognized (e.g Your computer is using the VESA Drivers and reports that no graphics card is present, which means that the card is electrically dead) then try putting your graphics card in the oven (asuming it is out of warranty and if you dont fx it you will throw it away)

1. remove everything of the board(leave hust the backports which cannot be removed.
2.pre-heat the oven at 200C'
3.leave the card to cool by it self.
4. re-assemble and try it.

The logic behind it?
The reason the card stops working is that the solder expands and contracts continuesly and cracks. Electrical solder melts at 183C' so when you put it in the oven at 200C' it melts and reforms the joints, due to its properties (if you have worked with solder you'd know what i mean) it stays where it should. I did it when my 8800gtx died and it 's back again working and is now 20C' lower because i replaced that crappy paste they use.

If you think all this is crap, then google it.
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March 8, 2010 5:24:31 PM

BTW, all the symptoms are the same as mine. Random lines even during POST/BIOS etc, i got random characters on the windows loading screen and the card wasnt recognized by windows.
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March 8, 2010 6:16:46 PM

Uh, you're best bet is proably to claim that the card died as a resulet of the new drivers, you might get a GTS 250 sent to you!.
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a c 172 Î Nvidia
March 8, 2010 6:26:58 PM

SithLordAJ said:
so when I look in the Nvidia directory and the only folders I see are for 186.16 and 196.34, I'm not sure that it means anything.

Can anyone tell me how I might find out if I had the 196.75 drivers installed when my system crashed?

If you do not have a folder marked as 196.75 then you were not using that driver, from the information given I'd say you were running the 196.34 driver. You could try and claim that you were running the 196.75's but could you provide proof if it were requested?
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March 8, 2010 6:31:47 PM

He could download the 196.75s, and cliam he was using them.
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a c 172 Î Nvidia
March 8, 2010 6:50:47 PM

builderbobftw said:
He could download the 196.75s, and cliam he was using them.

You might want to provide him with a link then.
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March 8, 2010 7:00:48 PM

doesnt that count as fraud?...
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March 8, 2010 7:02:32 PM

Well before MM closes this one too, I've experienced the problem myself. I got Bad Company 2 and I needed the new drivers to get any decent performance out of my dual 8800s. I did it and I can't force the fan above idle speed, however even at that speed I am lucky never to break 90c thanks to the great cooling on the 8800 GTS 512mb. The problem exists, and rivatuner is useless at this point.

That said, it is not what caused the problem with your card.

You have 2 drivers in your system, this can cause any number of problems. If your only experiencing these problems when booting into windows then I have a feeling that that is your problem. If the artifacts are present even in BIOS, you have a dead card.
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March 8, 2010 7:06:02 PM

Time to buy a new Nvidia card SithLordAJ
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a c 172 Î Nvidia
March 8, 2010 7:16:03 PM

AMW1011 said:
Well before MM closes this one too, I've experienced the problem myself. I got Bad Company 2 and I needed the new drivers to get any decent performance out of my dual 8800s. I did it and I can't force the fan above idle speed, however even at that speed I am lucky never to break 90c thanks to the great cooling on the 8800 GTS 512mb. The problem exists, and rivatuner is useless at this point.

That said, it is not what caused the problem with your card.

You have 2 drivers in your system, this can cause any number of problems. If your only experiencing these problems when booting into windows then I have a feeling that that is your problem. If the artifacts are present even in BIOS, you have a dead card.

Well unless this thread gets trolled there is no reason to close it :p  , but if you know of the problem then why are you running that driver?
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March 8, 2010 7:26:36 PM

That's why my last two videocards, a GTS 250 and a GTX 260 were XFX brand and came with lifetime warranties (one of the cards has a double lifetime warranty!)

Peace of mind.

Why would Nvidia give anyone anything for a damages videocard using their factory driver?

When you use their driver, you have to agree to many things, including:

6. DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTIES AND LIMITATION ON LIABILITY

6.1 No Warranties. TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS" AND NVIDIA AND ITS SUPPLIERS DISCLAIM ALL WARRANTIES, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.

6.2 No Liability for Consequential Damages. TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, IN NO EVENT SHALL NVIDIA OR ITS SUPPLIERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL, INDIRECT, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES WHATSOEVER (INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF BUSINESS PROFITS, BUSINESS INTERRUPTION, LOSS OF BUSINESS INFORMATION, OR ANY OTHER PECUNIARY LOSS) ARISING OUT OF THE USE OF OR INABILITY TO USE THE SOFTWARE, EVEN IF NVIDIA HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES.



So even if you can prove to a jury that a million users told Nvidia their new driver was burning up cards, do you think Nvidia will say "read 6.1 - no warranties it will work! and while you're reading that, go to the paragraph 6.2 - no liability for damages!"

Good luck to you all! I feel your pain. The way to fight back is not to buy Nvidia and I'm not just saying that because I'm eyeballing an entry point to buy some AMD stock!
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a c 172 Î Nvidia
March 8, 2010 9:01:25 PM

Darn!, we could have kept this going for ages and found out who the whingers were.
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March 9, 2010 12:09:39 AM

Mousemonkey said:
Well unless this thread gets trolled there is no reason to close it :p  , but if you know of the problem then why are you running that driver?


Understandable.

Again, I am keeping a close watch on my temps, 88c is the highest I've seen, which is well within limit. I'm lucky in the fact that I have far more cooling than I need with the stock cooler.
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March 9, 2010 12:12:15 AM

hundredislandsboy said:
That's why my last two videocards, a GTS 250 and a GTX 260 were XFX brand and came with lifetime warranties (one of the cards has a double lifetime warranty!)

Peace of mind.

Why would Nvidia give anyone anything for a damages videocard using their factory driver?

When you use their driver, you have to agree to many things, including:

6. DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTIES AND LIMITATION ON LIABILITY

6.1 No Warranties. TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS" AND NVIDIA AND ITS SUPPLIERS DISCLAIM ALL WARRANTIES, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.

6.2 No Liability for Consequential Damages. TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, IN NO EVENT SHALL NVIDIA OR ITS SUPPLIERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL, INDIRECT, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES WHATSOEVER (INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF BUSINESS PROFITS, BUSINESS INTERRUPTION, LOSS OF BUSINESS INFORMATION, OR ANY OTHER PECUNIARY LOSS) ARISING OUT OF THE USE OF OR INABILITY TO USE THE SOFTWARE, EVEN IF NVIDIA HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES.



So even if you can prove to a jury that a million users told Nvidia their new driver was burning up cards, do you think Nvidia will say "read 6.1 - no warranties it will work! and while you're reading that, go to the paragraph 6.2 - no liability for damages!"

Good luck to you all! I feel your pain. The way to fight back is not to buy Nvidia and I'm not just saying that because I'm eyeballing an entry point to buy some AMD stock!


You realize that ATI's disclaimer says basically the same thing...
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March 9, 2010 3:20:29 AM

Thank you for your input. I do realize ATI's disclaimer is basically the same thing. I'm just trying to stick to the OP's topic - 8800GT died, is 196.75 to blame?





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March 9, 2010 5:52:37 AM

Mousemonkey said:
If you do not have a folder marked as 196.75 then you were not using that driver, from the information given I'd say you were running the 196.34 driver. You could try and claim that you were running the 196.75's but could you provide proof if it were requested?


Even if I rolled back the drivers after the card died?
And how could someone provide proof that they were running those drivers?

Thank you all for your responses
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a c 172 Î Nvidia
March 9, 2010 10:42:02 AM

SithLordAJ said:
And how could someone provide proof that they were running those drivers?

As stated in the disclaimer, you use them at your own risk and as you must have agreed to that both when you downloaded them and again when you installed them it makes the proving that you had the 196.75's a moot point. I know that the vast majority of people just click the 'OK' or 'I Agree' button without actually reading the terms first but the phrase "ignorance of the law is no excuse" springs to mind as the defence that would be used against you. It's a bit rough I know but that's how the corporations roll.
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March 9, 2010 1:01:24 PM

If you just wanted proof, the closest thing would be screenshots of you using system restores to the point/days that show when you installed the new drivers. I don't always with mousemonkey but on this one, he's completely right.

Besides, there's no way Nvidia would refund or repair any broken 8800GTs. If word of that got out, they would be answering warranty and RMA email and telephone calls all day long and they wouldn't have time to write more bad drivers.

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March 9, 2010 2:07:08 PM

Quick thought - Fermi just round the corner and NVidia releases some drivers that have been murdering cards left, right and centre thus requiring the owner to buy a new one. Oh, whats that? GTX 470, sure does look nice considering i need a new card...
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March 9, 2010 4:54:30 PM

Griffolion said:
Quick thought - Fermi just round the corner and NVidia releases some drivers that have been murdering cards left, right and centre thus requiring the owner to buy a new one. Oh, whats that? GTX 470, sure does look nice considering i need a new card...


As I already stated, I was planning on upgrading when Fermi came out anyhow. So trying to imply underhanded-ness doesnt add anything to the conversation

As for the cooking it in the oven idea... Im not sure that solder cracks are the issue. It's acting like a problem on one or more shader units (I think), which means that wouldnt help. But if I can find a backup card, maybe I'll try it. (reminds me, I have a 6800 GT that died due to PSU failure. maybe I'll try it on that)

And MM, I know they are not 'liable' and all that legal-ness. Im not planning on filing any kind of law suit (what? I'd argue pain and suffering from not being able to play my games?!) However, to save face, Nvidia might be willing to give people a discount on their cards if they lost cards due to this driver issue. Obviously, some kind of proof that you were running those drivers at the time of failure and the type of failure might be need to be submitted to get this discount. Which brings up the question of how do you prove that you were running those drivers?

Well, in light of the news that other drivers are affected by this bug (I know they are linux drivers, but if we are just finding out now about those, how many others might be affected?), I think im going to contact Nvidia regardless and see what they have to say. Thanks again for all your help.
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March 9, 2010 4:56:59 PM

Best answer selected by SithLordAJ.
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March 9, 2010 6:54:16 PM

Not that I want to get into an internet screaming match with anyone, but it has already been proven in more than one court that a EULA that is agreed to with a mouse click of "I Agree" does not constitute a valid legal contract. I'm sure that in others, the obverse has proven to be true.

That said - Nvidia has a liability here. If not a strict legal obligation, then customer faith liability. If a card is damaged, they are on the hook for its replacement. If the destruction of that caused damage to other components, they can probably absolve themselves of liability for that aspect. The fact is, while it didn't happen to everyone, it happened to a significant number of people. I am one of them.

I'm fairly certain that if your card has been damaged by this driver release, and you keep pushing for recompense, politely, it will occur. EULA be d*mned.
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March 9, 2010 7:17:30 PM

Obverse? Do you mean Converse? I've never heard the word Obverse outside of talking about coins, but then again, learn something every day.
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March 9, 2010 8:20:18 PM

zorskin said:
Not that I want to get into an internet screaming match with anyone, but it has already been proven in more than one court that a EULA that is agreed to with a mouse click of "I Agree" does not constitute a valid legal contract. I'm sure that in others, the obverse has proven to be true.

That said - Nvidia has a liability here. If not a strict legal obligation, then customer faith liability. If a card is damaged, they are on the hook for its replacement. If the destruction of that caused damage to other components, they can probably absolve themselves of liability for that aspect. The fact is, while it didn't happen to everyone, it happened to a significant number of people. I am one of them.

I'm fairly certain that if your card has been damaged by this driver release, and you keep pushing for recompense, politely, it will occur. EULA be d*mned.


You might be right that a mouse click can't always be proven in a coirt of law to be a valid contract. But NVidia doesn't care about that or what is a valid contract. All they care about is covering their wallets and they and their 10 million dollar a year attorneys believe that the disclaimer is enough protection. If youwant to challenge that and bring in the "real" experts, please feel free to do so.

I'm fairly certain that when I go to amusement parks and the parking lots signs says not responsible for thefts from vehicles, I won't leave valuables in the car and I won't think that if they break in and steal my steering wheel (lol) I can sue the park for damages. You don't need a mouse click to be released from liability but it's a stronger case for Nvidia when the user has to click the mouse with the understanding the disclaimer was read and understood.

You want to pick a battle with Nvidia bout this, better to go with a class action. Good luck to you but I'm betting with smart money (Nvidia) on this one.

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March 9, 2010 8:30:31 PM

nvidia can't afford to piss of customers right now
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