GTX275 TriSLI vs 5870 Crossfire. Building New System

[Mpyra]

I am now definitely building a whole new system, i want it to be optimized for Crysis (Warhead), starting with the graphics cards, for which i would be willing to spend £600, the rest of the system would be built to make the most of those graphics cards in Crysis. I'm going to try and keep the rest of the machine under 300 (I stress try).

I have read that the 275GTX's scale really good, especially in Crysis.

TriSLI 285 vs Tri Xfire in Crysis:

http://benchmarkextreme.com/Articles/HD%205870%20TriFire/P4.html

The 275 only scores 1-2 FPS behind the 285 if at all behind in all the benchmarks i've seen and i've read that you can overclock a 275 to being 4-5 FPS faster than a 285, some suggesting the 285 is just a waste of money(it would cost me about 200-250 each).

ATI Radeon HD 5870 Single, Crossfire and TriFire VS GTX 285 Single, Dual and Tri Sli in Crysis Warhead:

http://benchmarkextreme.com/Articles/HD%205870%20TriFire/P3.html

The 5870 gets smoked outrageously.

I could get 3 275's for about 450-500, 2 5870's would cost about 600-650, a 5970 would cost about 500-600, Amazon UK offers them for about 420, but they are out of stock and don't know when they will get more, my guess is it will be a long time.

I'm also very skeptical of the 5870's Crysis performance there seems to be so much conflicting data, opinions and reports. I may buy one to test on my current system, just for the sake of comparison.

I could get 3 GTX 285's for about 650, but i don't think that would be any significant improvements over the 275's in Crysis.

Now for the rest of the PC i need some suggestions, not sure whether to go for an I7 or not.

I'm going to stick with Windows 7 32-bit and 2x4GB ram, not sure what speed it would need to be.

I don't know anything about matching CPU Mobo FSB speeds in overclocking and how this effect Ram choices, so i need some help there.

All my PSU needs to do is run the graphics cards, a 1000 watt PSU should be able to handle whatever option i go for, i use 1 CD drive 1 Hard Drive, i have no idea how my mobo and processor would effect power requirements.

Here is a cheap PSU:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-1000W-ATX-GAMING-PC-POWER-SUPPLY-PSU_W0QQitemZ250593138718QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Computing_PowerSupplies_EH?hash=item3a5883d81e

# Multi-GPU support independent triple +12V rails designed specially for dual/tri graphic cards
# For Socket 775; AM2 and all backward comptable CPU's; For Quad Core/ Exterme systems

Not sure if that first part is spiel or not and am not sure if the second part indicates it will only work with socket 775.

So if i went with an I7 it would not work?

 

[Rustyy117]

DONT! skimp on a PSU, its extremely important to get a quality PSU (not the generic/crap PSU that you linked to)

I hope you have very deep pockets if you intend to max Crysis

If your only every going to play Crysis then I'd recommend an nVidia GPU setup.

I don't see how you plan on getting the rest of the PC for £300, which would include a case, PSU, RAM, Mobo, CPU, Aftermarket cooler, HDD, DVD Rom Drive, Fans........

I'd recommend you go for a Ci5 or Ci7 and overclock it alot to get the most out of your GPU's

 

[AMW1011]

First, I'm extremely skeptical about those benchmarks. At the very least, they were on old drivers. The 5xxx series scales great in crossfire, better than SLI or matching it. So today with newer drivers your going to see pretty linear scaling between the two.

Second, while triple GTX 275s will give you a bit more performance, they lack DX11 and the extra performance will go more or less unnoticed since you will be able to max every game with any sort of optimization. Basically there is no good reason to go with the GTX 275s because they are simply out dated, especially for your price range. Another thing to consider is that you can always add a third 5870 if they ever start struggling with games. Also, the 5870 requires much less power than a GTX 275 which will make your PSU choose easier and cheaper, more on that later. If you can wait about a month and a half, nVidia's GTX 4xx series will be out and they may provide the performance you are looking for in that price range.

As for the system, a Phenom II 965/955 will do just fine with a nice AM3 board. It is cheaper than the i7 and will give you the same performance in gaming. However, if you go the SLI route you need to go LGA 1366 since LGA 1156 is stuck with x8/x8 or x8/x4/x4 and AM3 is stuck with the horrible nightmarish nVidia chipsets, where Intel can utilize SLI on their chipsets. Also, get Windows 7 64-bit, otherwise you will have RAM and VRAM bottlenecking, not to mention that this is 2010...

As for the PSU, no that wont work. You need to look at quality brands like Corsair, Seasonic, Antec, PC Power and Cooling, or the Enermax Revolution series.], otherwise the PSU will die and take your hardware with it.

You can get away with a 750-850w for the 5870 crossfire, but you need a 1000w for the GTX 275 tri SLI.

To give you an idea of why cheap PSUs are bad, and the one you listed is terrible:
http://www.corsair.com/cinema/movie.aspx?id=622747

 

[Mpyra]

DONT! skimp on a PSU, its extremely important to get a quality PSU (not the generic/crap PSU that you linked to)

I hope you have very deep pockets if you intend to max Crysis

If your only every going to play Crysis then I'd recommend an nVidia GPU setup.

I don't see how you plan on getting the rest of the PC for £300, which would include a case, PSU, RAM, Mobo, CPU, Aftermarket cooler, HDD, DVD Rom Drive, Fans........

I'd recommend you go for a Ci5 or Ci7 and overclock it alot to get the most out of your GPU's

Budgeting, picking the best bang for buck products, i did stress try, i will spend more if i need to.

I found a nice case for 30, my current one will be too small.

I have a HDD and a DVD Drive.

The point is i want the best price for performance.

 

[nfail]

looking at the overall scores, http://www.benchmarkextreme.com/Articles/HD%205870%20TriFire/P18.html the dual 5870's are as fast as tri 285's. thats overall though. if you are just gonna play crysis then it looks like the 275's would be better, but what about crysis 2? it's probably being made on ati hardware.

 

[Mpyra]

First, I'm extremely skeptical about those benchmarks. At the very least, they were on old drivers. The 5xxx series scales great in crossfire, better than SLI or matching it. So today with newer drivers your going to see pretty linear scaling between the two.

Second, while triple GTX 275s will give you a bit more performance, they lack DX11 and the extra performance will go more or less unnoticed since you will be able to max every game with any sort of optimization. Basically there is no good reason to go with the GTX 275s because they are simply out dated, especially for your price range. Another thing to consider is that you can always add a third 5870 if they ever start struggling with games. Also, the 5870 requires much less power than a GTX 275 which will make your PSU choose easier and cheaper, more on that later. If you can wait about a month and a half, nVidia's GTX 4xx series will be out and they may provide the performance you are looking for in that price range.

As for the system, a Phenom II 965/955 will do just fine with a nice AM3 board. It is cheaper than the i7 and will give you the same performance in gaming. However, if you go the SLI route you need to go LGA 1366 since LGA 1156 is stuck with x8/x8 or x8/x4/x4 and AM3 is stuck with the horrible nightmarish nVidia chipsets, where Intel can utilize SLI on their chipsets. Also, get Windows 7 64-bit, otherwise you will have RAM and VRAM bottlenecking, not to mention that this is 2010...

As for the PSU, no that wont work. You need to look at quality brands like Corsair, Seasonic, Antec, PC Power and Cooling, or the Enermax Revolution series.], otherwise the PSU will die and take your hardware with it.

You can get away with a 750-850w for the 5870 crossfire, but you need a 1000w for the GTX 275 tri SLI.

To give you an idea of why cheap PSUs are bad, and the one you listed is terrible:
http://www.corsair.com/cinema/movie.aspx?id=622747

To me the results of those benchmarks make perfect sense, as the GTX cards have better scaling in Crysis.

The 5870 wiped the floor with GTX275 in other parts of the 20 page review.

It is the only review to compare Tri SLIed GTX cards to 5870 Xfired (5970).

The other than the spectacular performance of the tri sli 285's, the review demonstrates that the GTX 285 performs way worse than a 5870
, but when slied performs the same as a 5870 xfired, which is something that's well demonstrated in other benchmarks for crysis.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-5970,2474-8.html

I'll respond to the rest of your post shortly.

 

[Mpyra]

looking at the overall scores, http://www.benchmarkextreme.com/Articles/HD%205870%20TriFire/P18.html the dual 5870's are as fast as tri 285's. thats overall though. if you are just gonna play crysis then it looks like the 275's would be better, but what about Crysis 2? it's probably being made on ati hardware.

I doubt it, Crytek n Nvidia are buddy buddies and seeing as Fermi is probably going to be a bust Crytek will likely optimize Crysis 2 for last generation hardware.

Remember they lost out in sales because of the system demands of the last game, they are not likely to push the envelope even further, Crysis 2 will be optimized for generation just past not generation coming.

Additionally the game is going to be ported to consoles, which is why it's expected to be less of a sandbox type game and moved to more urban environments, all this suggests Crysis 2 will not be as graphically demanding as Crysis 1 and will certainly be optimized for Nvidias already released hardware.

Overall, the 5870 xfired would probably be better, but there aren't many games out that it would make much of a difference on. 60 FPS average at 1980x1080 is good enough for me.

The GTX275's TriSLi seems to be one of the only cards capable of doing this on Crysis (maybe a 5970 Xfired could also?) and i'm pretty sure it could run any other game for the foreseeable future at that speed.

Edit: It seems doubtful that a even a 2 5970's xfired would be able to compete with a TriSLI GTX275/285 as it has markedly lower scalability in Crysis or 4 5870's Xfired for that matter.

 

[Mpyra]

As for the system, a Phenom II 965/955 will do just fine with a nice AM3 board. It is cheaper than the i7 and will give you the same performance in gaming. However, if you go the SLI route you need to go LGA 1366 since LGA 1156 is stuck with x8/x8 or x8/x4/x4 and AM3 is stuck with the horrible nightmarish nVidia chipsets, where Intel can utilize SLI on their chipsets. Also, get Windows 7 64-bit, otherwise you will have RAM and VRAM bottlenecking, not to mention that this is 2010...

As for the PSU, no that wont work. You need to look at quality brands like Corsair, Seasonic, Antec, PC Power and Cooling, or the Enermax Revolution series.], otherwise the PSU will die and take your hardware with it.

You can get away with a 750-850w for the 5870 crossfire, but you need a 1000w for the GTX 275 tri SLI.

To give you an idea of why cheap PSUs are bad, and the one you listed is terrible:
http://www.corsair.com/cinema/movie.aspx?id=622747

Okay won't cheap skate on the PSU.

Also, how does a Phenom II compare to the I7 price vs performance in gaming, particularly Crysis, which i have decided to definitely run with a 275 as i just found out my HDTV TV only puts out 60hz.

So with any game in existence, 60 FPS is the most i can appreciate, or that i really can or ever will appreciate as i think the refresh rate of the human eye is about the same.

Sill there will be a lot less minimums on Crysis.

So what processor would run better with TriSLI 275's for cost vs performance?

 

[uncfan_2563]

Phenom II's will do you just fine most of the time and for the price vs performance, may even be a better choice at times. However with the amount of scaling to be done with Tri-SLI, I'd recommend going with a bit more powerful of a cpu, the core i7.

Make sure you get a socket 1366 also because 1156 doesn't have that many lanes of PCI Express enough to carry out what you want. Core i7 920 should be your best bet imo

 

[Mpyra]

Phenom II's will do you just fine most of the time and for the price vs performance, may even be a better choice at times. However with the amount of scaling to be done with Tri-SLI, I'd recommend going with a bit more powerful of a cpu, the core i7.

Make sure you get a socket 1366 also because 1156 doesn't have that many lanes of PCI Express enough to carry out what you want. Core i7 920 should be your best bet imo

How exactly does scaling relate to CPU processing power exactly?

I'm going to look into the i7 evaluate the cost of it's mobo options combined.

Right now I'm confident my Q6600 will be fine on a LGA775 TriSLI board like the Nvidia 780i, worst case scenario is i buy a better 775 CPU.

If the price/performance seems right to me on the i7 option i'm liable to go via that route however.

Thanks.

 

[Bluescreendeath]

Get two 5870s, they will be able to effectively max out Crysis.

A 5970 is two underclocked 5870s that perform slightly better than two 5850s, and it was able to get an average of 45fps on 1920x1200, AA x8, and settings on very high. On higher resolutions and AA, it pulls ahead of the GTX285s to a significant degree.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-5970,2474-8.html

Other benefits include:
1. dx11 support
2. eyefinity
3. much lower power consumption
4. runs much cooler

 

[obsidian86]

if you want to max crysis you gonna need least a £1500 pc

 

[uncfan_2563]

How exactly does scaling relate to CPU processing power exactly?

I'm going to look into the i7 evaluate the cost of it's mobo options combined.

Right now I'm confident my Q6600 will be fine on a LGA775 TriSLI board like the Nvidia 780i, worst case scenario is i buy a better 775 CPU.

If the price/performance seems right to me on the i7 option i'm liable to go via that route however.

Thanks.

Well I'm not really the "expert" on this but I'm thinking it has something to do with the amount of data that needs to be processed and fed to the gpu's to render. If one of our more senior members can shed some more light on this topic, I'm sure the OP and I would be very happy because i'm not 100% on this either

 

[Mpyra]

Get two 5870s, they will be able to effectively max out Crysis.

A 5970 is two underclocked 5870s that perform slightly better than two 5850s, and it was able to get an average of 45fps on 1920x1200, AA x8, and settings on very high. On higher resolutions and AA, it pulls ahead of the GTX285s to a significant degree.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-5970,2474-8.html

Other benefits include:
1. dx11 support
2. eyefinity
3. much lower power consumption
4. runs much cooler

2x 5870 are 600-650

3x 275's are 450-500

I linked that benchmark chart above and it is consistent with the 2 i originally posted, the difference between 2 5970's and 2 285's is non existent without anti aliasing.

Seeing how scalable the 285's are in Crysis, i would bet that when an extra card is added the difference become negligible even with AA and non AA enabled game play would still far exceed the 5870's.

In my opinion AA on Crysis makes little difference compared to resolution and after resolution the next most important thing is that the game has good FPS.

Sadly there was no benchmarks on Crysis with AA in that review.

I going to be looking to prove that i am correct in the future if i have the opportunity however.

For now all we know is that the GTX295's are better than the 5870's without AA, with AA is anyone's guess, the massive performance gap formed when a third card was added for the 285's.

I'm not concerned with any of the first two extra's.

As for the second, i am curious as to where all the energy computers use go, it must ultimately be dissipated as and as i live in England it's often quite cold a lot of the year without heating, sometimes i use a 2kw electric heater to warm my computer room up, of course in the summer there's a chance things would get too warm.

Either way I'm not too bothered by energy usage and as for running cool, i don't think it matter if a card is hot if it performs better.

 

[uncfan_2563]

Mpyra, with multiple gfx cards in one system, I dont think you're going to need to turn on a heater in your room anymore xD

 

[Mpyra]

if you want to max crysis you gonna need least a £1500 pc

4x285's overclocked would max Crysis more than 3x275's, i just want 60 fps at 1920x1080 at the cheapest possible price.

The 3x5870's can't do this 3x275's can and for less money.

 

[Mpyra]

Mpyra, with multiple gfx cards in one system, I dont think you're going to need to turn on a heater in your room anymore xD

Well i hope not, that things bloody expensive

 

[obsidian86]

and crysis 2? performance has shown that dx11 cards wipe the floor with dx10 on level terms namely using dx11

 

[Mpyra]

and crysis 2? performance has shown that dx11 cards wipe the floor with dx10 on level terms namely using dx11

Dude, did you read the thread?

I doubt it, Crytek n Nvidia are buddy buddies and seeing as Fermi is probably going to be a bust Crytek will likely optimize Crysis 2 for last generation hardware.

Remember they lost out in sales because of the system demands of the last game, they are not likely to push the envelope even further, Crysis 2 will be optimized for generation just past not generation coming.

Additionally the game is going to be ported to consoles, which is why it's expected to be less of a sandbox type game and moved to more urban environments, all this suggests Crysis 2 will not be as graphically demanding as Crysis 1 and will certainly be optimized for Nvidias already released hardware.

Overall, the 5870 xfired would probably be better, but there aren't many games out that it would make much of a difference on. 60 FPS average at 1980x1080 is good enough for me.

The GTX275's TriSLi seems to be one of the only cards capable of doing this on Crysis (maybe a 5970 Xfired could also?) and i'm pretty sure it could run any other game for the foreseeable future at that speed.

Edit: It seems doubtful that a even a 2 5970's xfired would be able to compete with a TriSLI GTX275/285 as it has markedly lower scalability in Crysis or 4 5870's Xfired for that matter.

 

[Bluescreendeath]

4x285's overclocked would max Crysis more than 3x275's, i just want 60 fps at 1920x1080 at the cheapest possible price. The 3x5870's can't do this 3x275's can and for less money.

It is not possible to have 4x GTX285s. The max you can have is 3 in Tri-Sli. Unless you're talking about that obscure GTX285x2 which was a novelty item priced at $1000 each.

2x 5870 are 600-650
3x 275's are 450-500
I linked that benchmark chart above and it is consistent with the 2 i originally posted, the difference between 2 5970's and 2 285's is non existent without anti aliasing.
Seeing how scalable the 285's are in Crysis, i would bet that when an extra card is added the difference become negligible even with AA and non AA enabled game play would still far exceed the 5870's.
In my opinion AA on Crysis makes little difference compared to resolution and after resolution the next most important thing is that the game has good FPS.
Sadly there was no benchmarks on Crysis with AA in that review.
I going to be looking to prove that i am correct in the future if i have the opportunity however.
For now all we know is that the GTX295's are better than the 5870's without AA, with AA is anyone's guess, the massive performance gap formed when a third card was added for the 285's.
I'm not concerned with any of the first two extra's.
As for the second, i am curious as to where all the energy computers use go, it must ultimately be dissipated as and as i live in England it's often quite cold a lot of the year without heating, sometimes i use a 2kw electric heater to warm my computer room up, of course in the summer there's a chance things would get too warm.
Either way I'm not too bothered by energy usage and as for running cool, i don't think it matter if a card is hot if it performs better.

There is no point in maxing out Crysis if you don't even turn AA on - without AA, the jagged lines around every surface becomes very noticeable.

In my link, the first chart showed Crysis without AA and the 2nd showed Crysis with x8 AA.

Yes the 3xGTX275s will be better in terms of raw power and price, but you're buying a last generation card.

As for running cool, it matters if your case isn't built for airflow. A card that runs hot will cause everything in your system to run hot, reducing the ability to overclock your CPU or GPU.

Anyways, if you want raw power + lowest price, you might as well get 3x4890s. They perform just as good as 3xGTX275s, and will be even cheaper still. But if you are willing to sacrifice some power and pay a bit more, you will get the advantages of the newest generation dx11 cards.

Then again, 2x or 3x 5850s is always an option.

 

[jyjjy]

Why would you even consider 3 GTX 275s? Wait for Fermi if you are going to go with NVidia.
Also 3 of them for $450-500? If you are talking about buying used cards you MIGHT be able to find 3 GTX 260s in that price range, GTX 275s are going to be considerably more, especially new($700+)
Dual HD5850s OCed to 1ghz+ will be the best deal for the money.

 

[Mpyra]

It is not possible to have 4x GTX285s. The max you can have is 3 in Tri-Sli. Unless you're talking about that obscure GTX285x2 which was a novelty item priced at $1000 each.




There is no point in maxing out Crysis if you don't even turn AA on - without AA, the jagged lines around every surface becomes very noticeable.

In my link, the first chart showed Crysis without AA and the 2nd showed Crysis with x8 AA.

Yes the 3xGTX275s will be better in terms of raw power and price, but you're buying a last generation card.

As for running cool, it matters if your case isn't built for airflow. A card that runs hot will cause everything in your system to run hot, reducing the ability to overclock your CPU or GPU.

Anyways, if you want raw power + lowest price, you might as well get 3x4890s. They perform just as good as 3xGTX275s, and will be even cheaper still. But if you are willing to sacrifice some power and pay a bit more, you will get the advantages of the newest generation dx11 cards.

Then again, 2x or 3x 5850s is always an option.

You really need to provide pictures for the AA argument and benchmarks in Crysis for the 4890's, i don't think they will scale well.

Price vs Performance in Crysis GTX275's based on all available benchmarks.

 

[Mpyra]

Why would you even consider 3 GTX 275s? Wait for Fermi if you are going to go with NVidia.
Also 3 of them for $450-500? If you are talking about buying used cards you MIGHT be able to find 3 GTX 260s in that price range, GTX 275s are going to be considerably more, especially new($700+)
Dual HD5850s OCed to 1ghz+ will be the best deal for the money.

I'm talking in British pounds not dollars and your right one of the cards has been used for 4 months, but has 4 years of warranty left.

I don't think overclocking will make that much difference for the ATI cards when it comes to Crysis, the issue here seems to be scalability, overclocking the GTX 275's could exponentially increase performance.

Who knows?

I'll find out.

 

[Bluescreendeath]

You really need to provide pictures for the AA argument and benchmarks in Crysis for the 4890's, i don't think they will scale well.

Price vs Performance in Crysis GTX275's based on all available benchmarks.

First of all, I'm not here to argue with you. You were asking for advice and suggestions, which is what we are giving. If you don't believe me or want evidence for the performance of 4890s rivaling the GTX275s, just do a quick google search.

Every one of us thus far has told you to get the 5870s. If you keep arguing against what we're recommending, then it's pretty obvious you weren't going to listen to our advice anyways.

Go ahead and get the 3xGTX275s since you're so dead set on it.

 

[Mpyra]

First of all, I'm not here to argue with you. You were asking for advice and suggestions, which is what we are giving. If you don't believe me or want evidence for the performance of 4890s rivaling the GTX275s, just do a quick google search.

Every one of us thus far has told you to get the 5870s. If you keep arguing against what we're recommending, then it's pretty obvious you weren't going to listen to our advice anyways.

Go ahead and get the 3xGTX275s since you're so dead set on it.

I thought i said earlier in the thread that i had made up my mind and was definitely going for the GTX275's, but i think that was in another thread.

In anycase, if you are going to assert something in a discussion of facts it's best to be able to back them up.

I've made it very clear i only really care about Crysis Warhead, how exactly are 3x 4970's going to rival 3xGTX275's when 3x5870's can't?

I'm talking without AA here, even with AA the jury is out.

By suggesting ATI cards would be better your contradicting my reasoning.

I'm not arguing, I'm discussing, the difference between discussion an argument is that discussion is more routed in facts and thus logic.

You not providing facts to support your emotional position is in fact indicative that you do not wish to have a discussion, but in fact want to have an argument and now your projecting that on to me.

A discussion is an informal debate and in debate it's required to supply evidence when the burden of proof falls on you, in discussion it's courteous to provide factual evidence to support your position.

I have looked at all the evidence, i don't need to Google 4890x2 Crysis performance because the single card performance falls in par with a GTX285, whereas a single 5870 card beats a GTX 285, a sli'd 285 is on par with a crossfired 5870 and finally a TriSLIed GTX85 beats a TriXfired 5870.

Your argument does not make sense and yes you are arguing, sorry lol.

Anyway, this isn't constructive, I'm more interested in processor/mobo options now.

Thanks

Edit: Oh, and i didn't know TriSLI was the maximum for Nividia cards.

As to the GTX295, they would cost £300 each, so would be cheaper than 2 5870's however i believe they are just 2 GTX260's on the same die, i have no idea how they would perform in Crysis compared to other cards, I'd suggest that they would probably have superior scaling to ATI cards, i might look into it and you must remember, popular opinion is that Crysis is a nvidia optimized game.



Thanks again.