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New open loop - Need some advice.

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February 7, 2013 8:30:36 AM

Ok so I'll start off by saying that yes I'm new to this, however I have done what I consider a lot of reading and research before posting here. Unfortunately I have to ask for some legit feedback from you guys before I go ahead and buy these components, because I might have missed something small - or perhaps - something blindingly obvious.

Please let me know if you think these are viable components and a viable loop!

The loop:
Tube reservoir --> Pump --> 360 Radiator --> CPU Block --> 280 Radiator --> GPU block --> (Repeat)

Builds.
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=wish_list...

http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=wish_list...

The fittings and tube are not included in the build list because I will grab those after I've done a test build.

More about : open loop advice

a c 176 K Overclocking
February 7, 2013 12:17:51 PM

I assume you have read through the water-cooling sticky?
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/277130-29-read-first-...

Wishlists on PC Case Gear require an account to view, might want to just post the components outright, good thing I have an account.
Can also vouch for PC Case Gear's service, have had several good dealings with them, and purchased some WC stuff from them recently.

The loop itself is fine, I am not familiar with that Heatkiller block but I assume you have done the research and have found it to be good. Plus the thing looks pretty cool :D .
I do question the AX rad, an EX rad will perform fairly close and is a lot cheaper.
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_i...
The Koolance PMP-500 I have been eyeing myself, don't see any issue with it.

Only issues I see is the lack of any fittings and tubing, you really do want to nail them down early. Fittings can end up costing a fair bit, believe me.
Another thing, you have no fans for your radiator. Despite being the cheapest 120mm fans on offer at PC Case Gear, the XSPC Xinrullians are very good for radiator usage.
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_i...
Have you thought of any way to fill and drain the loop? Building in the ability to do so from the start will save a lot of frustration, time and added cost later on.

Comments on the build itself.

Seasonic are a great manufacturer and are widely regarded as the best, which is the reason to avoid them Down Under. Very expensive to get the bigger name brands like Corsair and Seasonic, have to go with less known names.
This PSU is of equal spec and quality to the Seasonic, while being a good $50 cheaper.
Silverstone Strider Gold Evolution 750W, 80+ Gold Fully Modular. $175
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_i...
or if your fine with 80+ Silver, thats another $30 taken off.
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_i...

The RAM is overkill and its voltage is too high for use with Ivy processors. You want RAM running at 1.5v or less. Speeds above 1600Mhz dont make much of a difference anyway, the performance increase is small and mostly negated by the slower timings needed to achieve it.
I recommend you get a kit like this.
Corsair Vengeance Low Profile Blue 8GB (2x4GB) 1600Mhz CL9 1.5v. $55
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_i...

If water-cooling that graphics card is a future possibility, make sure its a reference design PCB. Something like this might be more suitable if you do intend to water-cool it later on.
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_i...
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a c 190 K Overclocking
February 7, 2013 1:13:26 PM

Short for time so sorry for short answer,
Ax not worth extra cash, RX best, EX next best
I'd spend an extra tenner on the pump, http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_i...
and I can vouch for the Xspc fans, I have 14 of the 2000Rpm ones in my radbox and they are still nice and quiet after 10 months
I don't have a Pccg account so can't view the build but as Chalk mentioned, plan in your drain line now, it makes it easier to accomplish things if you plan ahead,
Moto
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a c 176 K Overclocking
February 8, 2013 2:56:44 AM

Just a call for clarification Moto, why not the PMP-500?
From the Martins review, it is equivalent to two PMP-450S (D5 Vario's on 5) in series while also being a bit smaller and slightly cheaper than the D5 you recommended.
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a c 190 K Overclocking
February 8, 2013 3:47:40 AM

Hmm, they seem to have upped the game from the 450, I stand correctamified :-)
Thanks for the update Chalk,
Moto
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February 10, 2013 1:49:03 AM

That is absolutely fantastic information gentlemen thank you very much - most appreciated.
For clarities sake I would like to know how it's possible for me to find out whether a GFX card is reference PCB or not?
Are you saying that the sapphire one I've selected is in fact not reference PCB?
I do intend to add the GFX card/cards to the loop however I don't have the money at the moment unfortunately!

I have changed the radiator - and the ram.
Any other tips appreciated!
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a c 176 K Overclocking
February 10, 2013 1:53:59 AM

Usually just googling a review on the card will reveal if its a reference PCB or not. Or look up the cards PCB in google image and manually compare to a reference PCB. If your truly stuck you can email Sapphire for clarification.
No idea if its reference or not, was just saying that you will want to make sure.
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February 10, 2013 3:31:46 AM

Ok so I think I am going to go with the following - I've had a bit of a change of heart.

EK Supremacy CPU block
http://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-supremacy.html

EK 7970 VGA WB
http://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-fc7970-qcs.html

From what I've read they seem like solid blocks - Plus I do like the clear aesthetics of them.
The graphics card has been changed to the HIS one as you mentioned, the compatibility widget on the EK website confirms that this is a reference PCB.

Thoughts on this? What is EK's reputation like? I have seen mixed reviews throughout the userbase however mostly good reviews on the professional side.
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a c 176 K Overclocking
February 10, 2013 3:45:14 AM

EK got a lot of flak a while ago when they released a batch of Nickel products with bad plating. Naturally, people who had $100 blocks corroding before their eyes turned to EK for replacements, it was a widespread issue among the community and it was obvious something had gone wrong at the factory level rather than in individual loops.
EK acknowledged the problem, but refused to compensate those with corroded blocks, saying that it was the enthusiasts use of Distilled water rather than their branded coolants that caused the issue. Needless to say, EK's has had a bad reputation on their Nickel products ever since.
So as long as it isn't made of Nickel, your good for getting EK blocks :D .
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February 10, 2013 5:04:12 AM

Dude I am so F*****G lucky that you told me about the reference design PCB issue - I would have pulled the heat sync off the card and tried to place the block, and realized then that it doesn't fit.
Thank Christ.

Ok well I bought the EK blocks - there's no nickle in them I don't think, only copper.
I also bought some of mayhems aurora blue coolant which looks ******* AWESOME.

I am really excited about this build - it's my first build ever aside from an internet browsing machine I made for my dad.

Is there anything you would change if it were yours?
Here are updated links. to the wishlists.

Build
https://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=wish_lis...

Liquid
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=wish_list...

I'm missing 4 fittings because I'm not sure whether I'll need 45 degree bends or not. I'll have to dry fit everything and figure that out.
Links to the blocks I got are above.
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a c 176 K Overclocking
February 10, 2013 5:12:10 AM

krieegs said:
Is there anything you would change if it were yours?
I also bought some of mayhems aurora blue coolant which looks ******* AWESOME.


That's what I would change, that dye is not designed for constant use. It is very much a show piece, only intended when the system is on display.
That stuff will gunk up your blocks, fast.
If you want colour in your loop, get coloured tubing.

Quote:
Aurora is "NOT" made for use in a home system. It has been developed for show System's (modding) and Photo work. If looking for a fluid for a Home system / Gaming system please use Mayhems X1 or Mayhems Pastel range of fluids there are fully tested and working in any kind of loop.

http://www.mayhems.co.uk/front/aurora-guide.html#.URdHW...

With the fittings, buy as many as you think you will need. Having a few 90/45° adapters on hand is always good, and its better to have them and not need them then to need and not have. Remember to get more shipped to you will cost a good $20 and will delay the build by a good 2-3 days even if you live locally.

EDIT: Also I'm guessing that Molex hub is for the fans?
Just get a fan controller, and this way they aren't running flat out all the time (which is why I assume you got slow fans)
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_i...
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February 10, 2013 5:29:59 AM

manofchalk said:
That's what I would change, that dye is not designed for constant use. It is very much a show piece, only intended when the system is on display.
That stuff will gunk up your blocks, fast.
If you want colour in your loop, get coloured tubing.

Quote:
Aurora is "NOT" made for use in a home system. It has been developed for show System's (modding) and Photo work. If looking for a fluid for a Home system / Gaming system please use Mayhems X1 or Mayhems Pastel range of fluids there are fully tested and working in any kind of loop.

http://www.mayhems.co.uk/front/aurora-guide.html#.URdHW...

With the fittings, buy as many as you think you will need. Having a few 90/45° adapters on hand is always good, and its better to have them and not need them then to need and not have. Remember to get more shipped to you will cost a good $20 and will delay the build by a good 2-3 days even if you live locally.

EDIT: Also I'm guessing that Molex hub is for the fans?
Just get a fan controller, and this way they aren't running flat out all the time (which is why I assume you got slow fans)
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_i...



I like you.
You save me a lot of pain and heartache.

I'll get the fan controller then - should I buy the fastest possible fans? I don't know anything about fans.
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a c 176 K Overclocking
February 10, 2013 5:39:01 AM

A line Moto said in a different thread comes to mind.
"Our job is to make your slide into insanity as smooth as possible" or something like that :) .

My water-cooling kit came with the 1650RPM Xinrullians, so that's what I have stuck with. Don't see much point in getting faster fans than that, as it is around 1400RPM they are noticeably loud, so not much point having the capability of going faster if you wont ever set them to it.

Also on the fan controller, might be worth getting some fan splitter cables so you can control groups of fans from the one slider. The fan controller I recommended can support up to 30W per channel (ie; slider) so you could probably fit 4 fans on the one channel without running into issues.
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_i...
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February 10, 2013 5:45:07 AM

manofchalk said:
A line Moto said in a different thread comes to mind.
"Our job is to make your slide into insanity as smooth as possible" or something like that :) .

My water-cooling kit came with the 1650RPM Xinrullians, so that's what I have stuck with. Don't see much point in getting faster fans than that, as it is around 1400RPM they are noticeably loud, so not much point having the capability of going faster if you wont ever set them to it.

Also on the fan controller, might be worth getting some fan splitter cables so you can control groups of fans from the one slider. The fan controller I recommended can support up to 30W per channel (ie; slider) so you could probably fit 4 fans on the one channel without running into issues.
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_i...


Thanks for all your help man I really appreciate it.
Last few questions are about air flow.

So the 280 rad goes in the bottom of the case
the 360 rad goes at the top.

The theory is that you have the bottom and front rads blowing into the case am I right?
The top and rear fans blow the air out - no?

Does that not mean that the fans on the top radiator are blowing hot air from inside the case onto the radiator? Won't that make it less effective?

Is it possible to have cool air from the top and bottom blowing onto the radiators, and the front and rear fans blowing air through the case (Pulling from the front towards the back and out)?
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a c 176 K Overclocking
February 10, 2013 6:22:06 AM

That is how case airflow is usually set up yes.

The top rad will be intaking some "dirty" air from the bottom rad, which will impact cooling performance. But it that will be mixed with fresh air from the front and side panel intakes, so its not a big issue.
What I have done is turn around the rear 120mm on my case so it intakes rather than exhaust, blows fresh air right where the top rad is drawing from. You get almost a bottom to top airflow rather than front to back.

You could flip the top rad fans around so they intake air, but doing that would be trying to push hot air down, not a good idea.
I think the bottom to top airflow might be the best option, especially since your case supports dual fans in the bottom, making it pretty good for that kind of setup.

EDIT: Noticed the coolant in your wishlist, you can replace that with distilled water from your local Woolworths. Makes no difference to cooling performance, cheaper and wont gunk up your blocks as theres no dye to clump together. Also chances are you will need more than a 700ml for a loop of this size.
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February 10, 2013 8:55:44 AM

You've been fantastic man thank you.
What you're saying about making hot air point downward makes perfect sense.

Another question - I've never sleeved cables before but it doesn't look that hard?
I'm going to be spending what will in total be a lot of money buying sleeved cables - is it worth just sleeving my own? I want blue and white! Blue is going to be the overall color theme - and I wan't sleeve, beautiful cables.

The PSU I have is completely modular - so surely I can buy a sleeving kit and sleeve all the modular cables that come with it? Is it that difficult?
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a c 176 K Overclocking
February 10, 2013 9:00:19 AM

I haven't sleeved any cables TBH, though I have been looking into doing so as of late. Gonna have to get advice from elsewhere on this I'm afraid. The Bit-Tech forums have a pretty active modding community in them, bet you could find a lot of info on sleeving there.

I dont think sleeving is difficult, just time consuming.
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February 14, 2013 11:49:56 AM

So is it possible to mount a pump upside down for example? or on it's side? something like that?

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a c 190 K Overclocking
February 14, 2013 1:38:13 PM

Yup, completely possible and normal
Moto
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a c 176 K Overclocking
February 14, 2013 6:53:37 PM

Yup, far as I know there is no specified "up" direction on pumps anyway.
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February 15, 2013 4:17:14 AM

Fantastic thanks guys, and one more quick one;

I've notices at the top of my tube reservoir that there is a piece that actually allows air to enter the top of the chamber - I imagine it's designed to equalize the pressure in the loop with the atmosphere - will this cause moisture to leak into the tower? Should I use a plug to plug that hole completely?
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a c 190 K Overclocking
February 15, 2013 8:16:53 AM

If theres a port at the top of your res then yes, in normal operation it will be sealed,
It is used to top up your water and thereby remove air from the res, its nothing to do with balancing pressure,
the loop is sealed in operation therefore under pressure
Moto
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February 19, 2013 11:23:45 AM

Well gentlemen - thank you so much for your help!
The build is complete and I've overclocked to 4.5ghz stable - with heaps of room to go higher.
This is what you helped me create!
Couldn't have done it without ya!











Fantastic outcome.
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a c 190 K Overclocking
February 19, 2013 2:53:13 PM

That there is a nice build man, almost worthy of a Cable management award
Throw some pics up in the Watercooling gallery and wait for the praise to roll in,
you took the pics quite early on I see, has the cavitation in the res cleared up yet?
Moto
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a c 176 K Overclocking
February 19, 2013 7:41:05 PM

That is a very good looking build.

Is that pump bolted into the PSU?!?!?
Wait, I can see that mat your using to decouple it, all good :D .
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February 19, 2013 8:22:18 PM

Thanks dudes!

By cavitation do you mean the little air bubbles and *** in there? It hasn't cleared up yet no, there is an airbubble about the size of an M&M in the loop and the pump is so strong that I can't get it out. I need to buy a $50 pump speed controller I think, because I'm sure that the water is moving over the components too quickly.
That being said I'm OC'd to 4.7 now @ 1.25v - prime has been running for an hour so far and temps are still under 70.

The pump isn't bolted onto the PSU no, I thought about doing that - in fact it was what I wanted to do, but unfortunately drilling holes into it would have broken it.

I originally just wrapped the pump in velcro and put some velcro down on the PSU, but because the pump gets a bit warm it just fell off. I had to cut some sheet metal and attach the bracket that came with the pump to the small piece of metal (About the size of a credit card) then strap the bottom of that up with velcro.
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a c 190 K Overclocking
February 20, 2013 3:07:55 PM

One large air bubbles no issue, its just the foamy look in one of your pics, it should settle over time if you keep topping up the res to push the air out, tap the res and tubing to help work out little bubbles,
I like the Velcro pump solution as well, neat thinking there
Moto
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!