Belial88 The OP clearly states he does not wan't a rig that will be old in 6 months. What your suggesting would make his rig old a couple of years ago.
The i5 3570K, the Phenom X4, the i3... these are all very capable, strong CPUs. They will not be outdated in 6 months, and they will most likely not be outdated even in 4 years. At the same time, an i7 is going to be outdated just around the same time period as an i3, in 5-10 years depending on usage, just because of how technology and software works.
The builds recommended will hardly be outdated in 6 months, please, no hyperbole. Hardware is far beyond software, that's the issue. Quadcore CPUs have been around for a while, yet we still do not have mainstream quadcores, and we are barely just seeing games that utilize 4 cores. Most new games still do not utilize 4 cores.
So by the time you have games that utilize quadcore, and really need quadcore, by then we'll be on the Skylate or Skymont, a good 5+ years from now.
I've owned a Phenom X4, I've owned an i5, an i3, and an i7. I know what these computers are capable of, and I can tell you that the i7 doesn't do even multi-threaded applications much more than 20% for me, and much less than 5% in most games and applications. The Phenom x4, which is 1/3rd the price of an i5 build, is a good 60-80% of the performance of an i5 in most applications.
now, for certain tasks, the i7 is worth the extra cost for me. When I do video editing, it really shines, and only when I'm editing some rather large home movies that are just 5 hours of raw footage. Otherwise, the i5 is generally strong enough, and even the Phenom X4 is enough for me to do some quick video edits, gaming, and even streaming.
You are ludicrous to think anything I'm suggesting is outdated. An Ivy bridge 3570k is hardly outdated a 'few years ago'. PSC ram that is capable of 2400mhz is hardly outdated, it's higher performing than RAM owned by 95% of the people on this forum. The GTX 470 is just as strong as the oft-recommended 7850, and the GTX 460 is still strong enough for a game like Tera Online, easily.
OP is playing an outdated game. Unless he has an unlimited budget, he will see a bigger performance boost if he buys a budget graphics card that is still enough to manhandle Tera Online, and then the rest of his budget into a stronger SSD and a stronger CPU, which will realize into a larger performance boost for his game, then if he buys an overkill GPU, and a weaker CPU/SSD that will make his game perform worse.
3570K + 460 + Sata III ssd
will outperform
Phenom X4 + 660TI + Sata II SSD
These are the kinds of choices you face when building a computer. If the OP has more money, he can get an i7 3770k, GTX 460, and high end Sata II SSD, maybe some faster RAM, a better case, a better cooler for a bigger overclock (that's really the biggest thing he needs, better cooling, good thermal paste...).
I've built half a dozen computers in the last year, I know what I'm talking about. I've reviewed components for companies. I know what is powerful enough, and what isn't.
Like I said before my suggested setup would allow the OP to play other games aswell if he/she desired (which is quite likely, I don't know anyone that has brought an entire PC from the ground up just for one game).
If the OP has other needs, he needs to suggest them. Otherwise, he needs to understand that trying to build for vague, undescript 'future' games, is only going to be to the sacrifice of his current needs. Would you rather get some awesome GPU that won't do anything for any game you play, or an awesome case? And so on.
He also said he doesn't want to waste money, so I've made him a very, very powerful computer, that will handle his game just fine. Spending anything more than what I've recommended, would be overkill for his current needs and a 'waste of money', unless he has needs he isn't talking about (like he plays Crysis 3 or something).
Yes a GTX460 does struggle at high resolutions like 2560 x 1440, even the 1GB version, the review below tested at 2560 x 1600 so slightly more demanding than the OP's resolution but even so it's clear to see the GTX460 gets murdered in most modern games:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/3809 [...] 200-king/6
Crysis Warhead is not an accurate comparison to make with Tera Online, you got to be joking.
GTX 460 will handle modern games at 1080 just fine. At 1440, it will definitely have to play on Medium or High instead. If the OP plays Crysis Warhead, then he'll need a different graphics card. But if he just plays Tera Online, the 460 is more than enough. And on 1440, even.
Meanwhile, his budget is better spent on his CPU, SSD, and cooling.
There's also the GTX 470, a very strong GPU he can find around $100-120. Again, overkill.
I agree with you that upgrading a PC is very easy but what's the point in buying PC components for a new build that will need upgrading straight away? (genuine question, not rhetorical).
Unless the OP plans to quit Tera Online within a year, it won't be an 'upgrade straight away'. The GTX 460 is a very capable GPU, it will manhandle Tera Online, and should do fine for all but the most demanding, current games (BF3, Crysis, etc) at 1440.
If he decides in a year or few or whenever he decides to quit Tera, that he wants more, it's very, very easy to sell the GTX 460 on ebay and get a stronger one. Get your money worth out of the GTX 460 for the job done, and get a much-reduced in price 7950 when it's only $150-200 INSTEAD OF PAYING $300 FOR IT!
Like jesus christ dude. A $300 GPU is not going to be any better than a $60 GPU for Tera Online. Why would he spend $300 on a GPU when it isn't going to be used for anything? That is such a bad idea.
That $300, is better spent on an i7, 2 x SSDs in RAID, high end 2800mhz RAM. Those will actually give him a performance boost in Tera Online, moreso than a 7950 over a GTX 460. And yea, buying an i7 over an i5 is a huge waste of $100, but it'll be a much larger performance boost for OP.
He could also get some really good cooling instead. If he wants to blow $240, this is where I recommend he puts it - Get a high end closed loop or big air on sale for $60, get some high end thermal paste like Coollaboratory Liquid Ultra $20, get some TY-140's x 3 for his heatsinks, $60, then buy a second samsung 830 128gb for RAID.
Then buy a steak. And then donate some money to breast cancer research.
Nothing wrong with the UD3H, though I see nothing wrong with the Asus board I suggested either and have read good things about it, in the UK I found the Asus board for slightly less so that's why I suggested it.
You see nothing wrong with the Asus board because you read good reviews from sites that don't do proper reviews and remove the VRM heatsinks and you haven't used many motherboards.
The Asus P8Z77-V Pro offers basically nothing over the P8Z77-V LK besides a few more SATA and USB ports, and a PCIe 2.0 lane. Just get the LK, it's already a premium board. In quality, it's lower than the UD3H and UD5H, which are some of the best mid-range boards around that offer high range quality.
It's all about the quality of the VRM on a motherboard, and the P8Z77-V Pro doesn't offer anything special. The UD3H offers cleaner power delivery, and better performance, meaning a lower vcore, less LLC, and less heat. In reality the Asus boards are just fine, but why would you buy them over the superior Gigabyte boards.
And recommending the Pros is quite irresponsible. It just has a few more slots over the P8Z77-V LK. Why would you recommend a high end board like that. Unless you need a ton of SATA ports, there's no reason to get a board other than the UD3H/P8Z77-LK/Extreme4/TZ77XE4/G45.
OP really needs to say if he's by a microcenter or not. Microcenter does have the P8Z77-V LK for a really good price, $59. At that price, it's a great deal.
he price difference between 4 and 8GB of RAM is so small that I really don't see a reason to choose only 4GB, what about if the OP does other things with his/her PC?
Here's where I got my info about memory prices rising:
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/s [...] t=18487367
The price difference being small has nothing to do with it. It's still a waste of money, and that money could be better spent elsewhere for a larger performance increase.
If the OP does other things with their PC, they should tell us so we can better tell them what kind of computer to build. But if Tera Online is the most strenuous task they do, or any kind of gaming, frankly, then 2x2GB is more than enough. Save the money and put it elsewhere.
I mean, why not recommend the OP just throw in a 30GB Patriot SSD? The price is so cheap, right? What if the OP does drive caching? Why not?
Because it's a waste of money and it could better be spent elsewhere. Games and general programs simply don't use more than 4gb of RAM. DDR4 will become the standard before 8GB of RAM becomes necessary for a gaming computer.
Yes single card solutions are better but if you want CF/SLI performance out of a single card then that single card will use alot of power...
This is such a silly thing to say...
First off, the Antec Neo Eco 620w is $29, so if you want an SLI/Crossfire capable PSU, there you go. A way better recommendation than some highly expensive and useless PSU on such a build...
If you want CF/SLi performance out of a single card then it will use a lot of power.... what? I really don't think you know that much about what you are talking about lol.
Single Card systems use very, very little power. You can look up benchmarks anywhere, here:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6276/nvidia-geforce-gtx-660-review-gk106-rounds-out-the-kepler-family/16
In both full load and in demanding games, even the most power hungry of GPUs are hard pressed to ever go above 300w. None of them ever cross 350w. This is all on an extremely power hungry 1st gen i7, by the way. With an Ivy bridge CPU, you aren't going to cross 300w.
How much performance a card has, has nothing to do with how much power it draws. Please, you seem to be wrong on a lot of things, I would advise you be much more reserved when recommending computer parts. I see a lot of people on TomsHardware forums recommend equipment based on faulty understandings of how hardware works.
A quality power supply will last many years, it doesn't matter what power rating it is, but rather the parts used in it. If it has good solid capacitors made in Japan, maybe Taiwan, if it has ferrite chokes, good traces, proper wiring, and good cooling design, it will last a long time and lose virtually no power at all over time.
A 350w quality power supply, will be just as good in 5 years as it is new. It's only bad quality power supplies, that are a problem. As long as you have a quality PSU on a single GPU system, especially an Intel system, then you really don't need more than 350w.
A high quality, 350w PSU, will allow for extreme overclocks on a single GPU system. Please educate yourself more on power draw and how power supplies work, as you don't seem to understand it at all. It's not about the wattage of the power supply, but the power on the 12v rail and it's 12v rail amperage.
Future expansions has nothing to do with it either... a good 350w psu will allow all the expansions you would want, provided you stick to a single GPU system (and SLI/Crossfire is terrible, there's no reason to use SLI/Crossfire unless you want to SLI 3x 680s and have an insane budget...). SLI also introduces a lot of problems and microstuttering, which is why single card is always better than multi.
Anyway we don't know the OP's exact budget so I listed high quality parts and I've already said are overkill for just TERA Online, but atleast it'll last 6 months without needing an upgrade (like the OP wants) and will allow him/her to play other modern and more demanding games.
Hyperbole. So you basically recommended a computer that has nothing to do with the OP's requests, because you don't know much about TERA online or what computer components are best. Good job.
OP said he plays Tera Online, and that he doesn't want to waste money. I told him a build for $500 that is overkill as it is.
Tera Online will be the same in 6 months, it'll be the same in 6 years. A computer game doesnt just randomly, in 6 months, change what it requires. Also, the parts recommended by me are all extremely powerful, they will manhandle most games, even at 1440.
The 'weakest' part of the build is the GPU, in which case he can upgrade as necessary, which is a pretty easy thing to do. This allows the OP to put more money towards a stronger CPU, SSD, and cooling, for a reasonable price. If he wants to spend more money, an i7 and RAID would be a bigger performance boost for his MMORPG than a stronger GPU.
i5 3570k will last at least another 5-10 years dude, it's a ridiculously strong CPU. All the components will last years. Your insane to think that somehow in 6 months any of this will be outdated. All of this stuff will last years. The idea that anything won't last 6 months is absurd and hyperbole.
If the OP wants to play Battlefield 4, when it comes out, in a year, he can sell his 460, and buy the 7950 for 50% of the price it's at now. In the meantime, he can put the most of his money where it counts, and his computer will still be able to play Battlefield4 on reasonable settings even without an upgrade, and it'll play even battlefield5 on medium settings.
My lord.... I almost fell asleep.
Some dribble about the i5
....No-one is arguing about the i5, it's a good choice as a gaming processor. No need to write an essay.
If the OP has other needs, he needs to suggest them. Otherwise, he needs to understand that trying to build for vague, undescript 'future' games, is only going to be to the sacrifice of his current needs. Would you rather get some awesome GPU that won't do anything for any game you play, or an awesome case? And so on.
Yeah building an overkill rig is going to be to the sacrifice of playing TERA Online.... Right
Have you checked out how demanding TERA Online is?
Check out this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTc6w24hS_g
Gameplay is with an overclocked GTX570 (near GTX580/HD7950 performance) at 1920 x 1080 and I saw FPS dips into the low 40's, OP said he wants 60FPS without any FPS drops.
The HD7950 may even struggle with a constant 60FPS at the larger resolution of 2560 x 1440.
Crysis Warhead is not an accurate comparison to make with Tera Online, you got to be joking.
Try reading through the review, surprisingly they do test other games aswell....Crysis just happened to be the first in the list.
What's the point in buying a PC with a GPU that can't even run the less demanding games (like TERA Online) on max settings @60FPS.
Like jesus christ dude. A $300 GPU is not going to be any better than a $60 GPU for Tera Online. Why would he spend $300 on a GPU when it isn't going to be used for anything? That is such a bad idea.
That $300, is better spent on an i7, 2 x SSDs in RAID, high end 2800mhz RAM. Those will actually give him a performance boost in Tera Online, moreso than a 7950 over a GTX 460. And yea, buying an i7 over an i5 is a huge waste of $100, but it'll be a much larger performance boost for OP.
Watch the video again if you still think what you said is true.
Look at this:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4503/sandy-bridge-memory-scaling-choosing-the-best-ddr3/6
Even 1333Mhz is fine for gaming, not sure why your suggesting OP waste money on 2800Mhz, it'll make next to no difference in games
Equally a RAID array of SSD's will make next to no difference compared to a single SSD.
You see nothing wrong with the Asus board because you read good reviews from sites that don't do proper reviews and remove the VRM heatsinks and you haven't used many motherboards.
I've also read user reviews aswell.
LOL, I haven't used many motherboard? haha ok :lol:
The price difference being small has nothing to do with it. It's still a waste of money, and that money could be better spent elsewhere for a larger performance increase.
It has everything to do with it, the difference is £12, here's an example
2x2GB
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MY-137-CR&groupid=701&catid=8&subcat=1517
2x4GB
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MY-136-CR&groupid=701&catid=8&subcat=1517
What else can he upgrade for £12 that will give him more of an improvement?
This is such a silly thing to say...
First off, the Antec Neo Eco 620w is $29, so if you want an SLI/Crossfire capable PSU, there you go. A way better recommendation than some highly expensive and useless PSU on such a build...
If you want CF/SLi performance out of a single card then it will use a lot of power.... what? I really don't think you know that much about what you are talking about lol.
I wouldn't CF a pair of HD7950's on a Neo Eco 620W and I wouldn't recommend anyone else does either.
Yes, what I said is true, it's patently absurd to think that higher end GPU's use less power than lower end GPU's...
Hyperbole. So you basically recommended a computer that has nothing to do with the OP's requests, because you don't know much about TERA online or what computer components are best. Good job.
OP said he plays Tera Online, and that he doesn't want to waste money. I told him a build for $500 that is overkill as it is.
Tera Online will be the same in 6 months, it'll be the same in 6 years. A computer game doesnt just randomly, in 6 months, change what it requires. Also, the parts recommended by me are all extremely powerful, they will manhandle most games, even at 1440.
Watch the vid or do your own research, oh and read the review I posted earlier, AGTX460 doesn't man handle games at 1440P.
And have you ever heard of game expansions, sometimes they're more demanding, so yes, a game can change in 6 months...
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