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I am curious if this would work... PCI to 48TB of drives

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April 30, 2012 11:13:06 PM

i would like to take an pci extender and attach it to a riser fiill the riser with sata controllers plug those into a server sata backplane and then run 15 3TB drives off it ... is there a GURU that can weigh in on this . i have a diagram its located here http://travisgillespie.netau.net/?q=node/84
a b G Storage
April 30, 2012 11:43:24 PM

Well purely based on the pic I can say that this will be a massive failure if you use WD green drives.

The rest of the setup perhaps someone else will put the time in to research those components a bit and give some input.
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May 1, 2012 12:04:06 AM

not to mention you probably shouldn't have that much usable space since you should be doing some form of redundant array

not to mention I don't have much experience into arrays this large so I wouldn't even be able to recommend an array type
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May 1, 2012 4:04:04 AM

@tomatthe : i dont have problems with these drives like i have read about ... and i am in the least compatible os : linux > and i dont have the problem with the to many writes and such.. why does every one hate these drives...? what would your preferance be and if its seagate then currently my allmart only has the 2tb version...

@mindless728: actually as fat as usable space i need this much space, in either case i didnt mention wherther i would raid or not. brobably break it into 4 ind raided drives @ 6TB ea raid(10) still giving 24TB array management is kinda not the point of my post though...
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May 1, 2012 5:16:10 AM

That plan has EPIC FAIL written all over it. I would go with a much simpler solution, like one designed for your purpose. There are external arrays designed to do what you are wanting to half assed together:

http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/Addonics-Storage-Tower...

Anything worth doing is worth doing right.
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May 1, 2012 3:30:37 PM

well where is the fail? and why? i would never buy addonics for 1 for two if i wasnted something like that i would just get this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SuperMicro-3U-Barebones-SC-933T...

but there is only one problem with that, i am not looking for a nas or networked solution i am looknin for a system extension. i already have a powerful system it just doesnt have any more room to expand it is already holding 16 3T drives and i have one PCI slot left.

CAN ANYONE HERE TELL ME WHY THIS WONT WORK OR WHAT PART WONT WORK INSTEAD OF IDEA BASHING? please be able to backup or otherwise explain.
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May 1, 2012 4:11:08 PM

tbillion said:
CAN ANYONE HERE TELL ME WHY THIS WONT WORK OR WHAT PART WONT WORK INSTEAD OF IDEA BASHING? please be able to backup or otherwise explain.


1. You have not identified a way to secure the drives.
2. You have not identified a power source.
3. Vibration, what is your plan?
4. Drive longevity in a solution that may/may not be suitable for the application.
5. Unnecessary complexity, multiple single points of failure.
6. Heat dissipation, whats the plan?
7. Compatibility of parts, completely unknown.
8. Throughput bottleneck at the incoming SATA port

Let's start there. Add to that the fact that you have a good number of dollars invested in the drives, why half ass the enclosure, power and setup. I respect your ingenuity (turning a truck into a tractor is a little WTF, but to each their own). But there are MANY companies that make cages for SAS/SATA external drive arrays for a reason, because they know what they are doing and many provide it at a very good value. I would think that the size and cost of the drives would beg for a good solid home.

This is some serious Storage for Rednecks 101 going on here.
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a b G Storage
May 1, 2012 4:11:51 PM

Um go Infortrend you can get a 16 bay that can handle 3TB drives and has raid built into the enclosure. You plan might work but it would look horrible and if you had an issue I could see troubleshooting being a major issue. PCI extenders are a big no no also introducing latency that could be problematic with the ammount of data you would be moving over it. We use many arrays of that size and bigger were I work and that setup will not be what you want to work with at all.

Thent
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a b G Storage
May 1, 2012 10:09:47 PM

po1nted said:
That plan has EPIC FAIL written all over it. I would go with a much simpler solution, like one designed for your purpose. There are external arrays designed to do what you are wanting to half assed together:

http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/Addonics-Storage-Tower...

Anything worth doing is worth doing right.


Agreed, it is not worth trying to pick the idea apart and explain the specifics of where it may fail as it is just all around a horrible setup.
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May 3, 2012 1:25:23 AM

1. You have not identified a way to secure the drives.
2. You have not identified a power source.
3. Vibration, what is your plan?

None of this was part of my original question nor does it factor as to wether the idea would or wouldnt work. they all factor into how long it would last. Not concerned about that.

4. Drive longevity in a solution that may/may not be suitable for the application.

yeah but when they come out with bigger drives every year who wants left over drives... i figure before every one thinks they are going to go out ill get at least three years out of them and by then there will be 8TB drives out.

5. Unnecessary complexity, multiple single points of failure.

its not that complex. if i could plug a pci riser in to the mobo without blocking the slots already in use i would and i could test this out no help needed.

6. Heat dissipation, whats the plan?

peltier junctions or maybe a 5 ton ac! why does that play into the original question?

7. Compatibility of parts, completely unknown.

to some extent. in short they all plug in, one step closer than none. the biggest question i have here i suppose if i had to dumb it up is if i put in a three slot riser am i going to be able to acces the cards in the slot... the rest in theory works.

8. Throughput bottleneck at the incoming SATA port

yeh maybe so but i havent found a SAS PCI 32 card. Also the 16 port back plane is pure sata the 8 port is SAS/Sata and really this is just by home backup redundancy unit i already have close to 30 TB as it is ... gonna need some other place to put stuff soon.

Let's start there. Add to that the fact that you have a good number of dollars invested in the drives,
(actually i dont got them on a good deal about $15 each at the flea market... and i dont care where they came from ... i came up ....)
why half ass the enclosure,power and setup.(who said anything about half assing? this is the solution that fits by needs it plugs into the last pci slot expands it to a little more space and looks as if it woudl work.)



I respect your ingenuity (turning a truck into a tractor is a little WTF, but to each their own).

how the f### does that make any sense i respect you but wtf? seriously? they are called doodle bugs and perhaps if you knew about it, it wouldnt be so foreign to you . did you know that during the 1920 great depression most farmers could not afford tractors and most of them also had model t trucks, so they re-fabbed them into tractors and through the depression most of the crop production (that probably fed your grandparents) was farmed by a truck/tractor.

further more the doodlebug and this solution have one thing in common: I can fix it. if something breaks on this tractor i can get cheap and ample used parts. this solution makes a big nice thing plug into what i have... Work with what you got .. the poor folk motto.

But there are MANY companies that make cages for SAS/SATA external drive arrays for a reason, because they know what they are doing and many provide it at a very good value.

Your wrong there are many companies that make SAS/SATA external drive arrays because big companies will make you rich if you give them what they want for a conceived fair price. Define good value most of the ones i have looked at the support 3tb drives (as in max 3tb like when the 4tb come out it will be obsolete) are upwards of $1G

I would think that the size and cost of the drives would beg for a good solid home.

like i said i didnt pay that much for them so not really a concern.

This is some serious Storage for Rednecks 101 going on here.

er thanks for the compliment seeing as hardworking rednecks built this country and goto war for it ... i am proud to be classed with such amazing folks.

"Agreed, it is not worth trying to pick the idea apart and explain the specifics of where it may fail as it is just all around a horrible setup."

doing your part to inflate the internet with useless bits. THANK YOU !!!

"Um go Infortrend you can get a 16 bay that can handle 3TB drives and has raid built into the enclosure. You plan might work but it would look horrible and if you had an issue I could see troubleshooting being a major issue. PCI extenders are a big no no also introducing latency that could be problematic with the ammount of data you would be moving over it. We use many arrays of that size and bigger were I work and that setup will not be what you want to work with at all."

thanks for at least a friendly seeming reply instead of an attack. Infortrend is networked. i have enough network traffic not interested in NAS. troubleshooting is a task that any good tech faces day in and day out. Par for the course as it were . Im not going for the prettiest solutionever i am more of a function over form type of person. By pci extender you mean the first cable extender? or the riser? I couldnt see from the farthest slot on the riser being more than four inches latency maybe ... interference is more of my concern. but nay wya thanks for weighing in !



-Jason


Forget
Other
Retards
U'll
Manage
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May 4, 2012 12:19:31 AM

Everything I listed (and a LOT more) is a valid concern regarding the functionality of your design. Without resolving those issues, no, your design will not "work".

I offered some very valid concerns (from a storage engineer for a fortune 100 company). That said, I honestly wish you success in your endeavor. Good luck.
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May 4, 2012 1:18:02 AM

storage engineer. fancy term for someone who buys things on cdw receives large expensive boxes and then plugs it all together via the instructions?

The most helpful comment i have read here was from @po1nted :"Throughput bottleneck at the incoming SATA port" and when i first read it i didnt really consider the other dise of that was being said but your right i should ditch the sata controllers and use an PCI SAS controller. that was a great point.

I give im just gonna do it and let you know how it fairs.
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a b G Storage
May 4, 2012 1:53:15 AM

Not trying to kick a dead horse here, but why wouldn't you just use an Infotrend box with a FC connection?
Budget?
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May 4, 2012 1:56:59 PM

psaus said:
Not trying to kick a dead horse here, but why wouldn't you just use an Infotrend box with a FC connection?
Budget?


Because success is not part of his criteria. His goal is to make something that MIGHT transfer a bit of data for a short period of time.

There is no purpose or logic behind what he is trying to do. This thread is complete nonsense.
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a c 375 G Storage
May 4, 2012 2:58:28 PM

Admittedly, I didn't read through all the posts. The first thing that jumps out at me is if you use a PCI riser card with a bunch of sata/raid controllers attached, you will saturate the PCI bus. Throughput will not be optimal.
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May 9, 2012 2:55:35 AM

tbillion said:

This is some serious Storage for Rednecks 101 going on here.

er thanks for the compliment seeing as hardworking rednecks built this country and goto war for it ... i am proud to be classed with such amazing folks.


I am with you brother!!! Rednecks FTW!!!

I can not help you with this setup, but I was just wondering what you are going to be using this for?

BTW It was really getting on my nerves how you were not "quoting" the members comments. It makes it much easier to read and distinguish between conversations if you quote the comments.
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May 9, 2012 6:04:38 PM

Robopolo said:

I was just wondering what you are going to be using this for?
.


Just once and a while backup of existing data, in the end. But for now maybe play with the idea of raid and some other things.

Quote:
Admittedly, I didn't read through all the posts. The first thing that jumps out at me is if you use a PCI riser card with a bunch of sata/raid controllers attached, you will saturate the PCI bus. Throughput will not be optimal.


yeah perhaps but when it comes to this machine speed isnt a thing that i care about storage size is . i mean you cant get very much speed out of sata 150 and it is looking like for proof of concept that is what i am going to use. so i dont expect blistering speeds. Largest individual files that i own are 4.4gb ea.

Quote:
Because success is not part of his criteria. His goal is to make something that MIGHT transfer a bit of data for a short period of time.

There is no purpose or logic behind what he is trying to do. This thread is complete nonsense.


you sure are a bitter person you know that? IMHO you have no clue what my goals are and have no clue on exactly what success is ... on a cheap ass dell mobo P4 with 4 pci slots all running sata 150 4 port cards doing simultaneous transfers from here to there and there to here some from ide and some not i get on av. 40mB/s and to you in your big money world that may not be enough or whatever but i dont have to deal with fiber channel and i dont have to deal with plugging in another wall juice monster, its good enough and to me is success. Furthermore i think i have exemplified the fact that i have both purpose and logic in what i am trying to do. Purpose : expand existing system by 15 3TB drives utilising the final remaining PCI slot. Logic: I dont want to have to worry about F*ing fibre channels or something else to plug into my D*md electric bill that you dont pay for, thus utilising all of the available output form and existing solution is logical. You know they told edison he was full of nonsense too and he created the light bulb among many other things knowing what we know today i dont think anyone thinks he was nonsense. :kaola: 

Quote:
Not trying to kick a dead horse here, but why wouldn't you just use an Infotrend box with a FC connection?
Budget?


Simply because it would be a waste. i'd have to plug another thing in, and configure a fibre channel, and all this other mess. if i wanted to plug something else in and go through all the mess of an additional system i would just go out to the garage and get a decrepit old box and turn it into a nas. plug in a gigabit ether card to it and the spare pci in my existing box use a crossover cable and have a dedicated nas solution.... BUT I DONT WANNA DO THAT. GD :pt1cable: 

Oops i also almost forgot i dont have $7,635.12 before tax and shipping to devote to some hard drives i got on a song and furthermore after I decide to go away from the drives i have this piece of crap is obsolete the biggest drives it can handle are 3TB so next year when i go to 4TB i am back to square A, holding a bunch of new drive and my dick in my hand. at least with my solution i will beable to upgrade and move things around, and it will work. just when they come out with 4TB drives that i can get a hold of i stand to gain 32 TB when i can work this out.

Quote:
$7,635.12 SpanStor Infortrend ESDS S16S-G2242-4B

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May 9, 2012 6:07:25 PM

tbillion said:
Just once and a while backup of existing data, in the end. But for now maybe play with the idea of raid and some other things.


Okay, I was just wondering because this looks like a massive setup.

Thanks for quoting everything this time :D 
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