Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

GTX 480 is $449-499, GTX 470 is $299-349

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
Share
March 15, 2010 9:00:51 PM

http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2010/3/15/geforce-...

It seems like GTX480 is going to have 480 cores, but there is still 1.54GB DDR5 and 384-bit interface
The thing that interested me the most, GTX470, actualy won't be much of a slowdown:

GeForce GTX 470 will beat out HD 5850 and in some cases, even HD 5870 - for the price of HD 5850 - we were told that the ballpark figure is $299-349

Now if that is true, can't wait for PAX East 2010!!! :D 

Your opinions :
GTX480 vs HD5870
GTX470 vs HD5850/HD5870
a b Î Nvidia
March 15, 2010 9:07:16 PM

Umm..... yeah.. I'll believe those prices when I see them on a price tag and can order it. But hey- I'd love it because then ATI will drop their prices by a few bucks and still blow Nvidia out of the water on price/performance.
Anonymous
March 15, 2010 9:12:00 PM

Wow. If this is true, at that price im certainly buying 3 for tri-SLI.... Can't wait.
Related resources
March 15, 2010 9:12:40 PM

flyinfinni said:
Umm..... yeah.. I'll believe those prices when I see them on a price tag and can order it. But hey- I'd love it because then ATI will drop their prices by a few bucks and still blow Nvidia out of the water on price/performance.


Yeah i wanna see that price of a GTX470 and ATI lower it's prices by $100 and make HD 5850 a excelent buy
If ATI ain't lowering prices then GTX470 FTW
a b Î Nvidia
March 15, 2010 9:16:22 PM

Yeah- ATI's cards are so much cheaper to produce, and they're already through the 40nm woes really and have some stock building- they can probably drop the 5850 to $200 and kinda shrink the rest down a little and bring the 5870 to $300 and still be making a killing, while wrecking Nvidia's game. However- I doubt those prices are gonna be real unless Nvidia is just gonna take a loss on the whole GTX4xx and use it as a stopgap till the GTX5xx series or something.
March 15, 2010 9:17:46 PM

Omg... Thanks for making me laugh!

Performance numbers = Lie

Price numbers = Lie

When I hear the words "Fermi" and "will be" in the same sentence, I always burst out in a fit of convulsive laughter!

That said, I can't wait to see the comparison. :) 
a c 171 Î Nvidia
March 15, 2010 9:18:49 PM

unknown_13 said:
Yeah i wanna see that price of a GTX470 and ATI lower it's prices by $100 and make HD 5850 a excelent buy
If ATI ain't lowering prices then GTX470 FTW

Why would ATi drop their prices by $100? Surely that would suggest that they are price gouging at the moment and selling their cards for more $100 than they are worth. :whistle: 
a b Î Nvidia
March 15, 2010 9:33:38 PM

Not necessarily price gouging. Pricing to the demand. They could still make money if they dropped their prices a bit, much more easily than Nvidia can with their massive cores and wide memory busses. Its a competitive market, and if things are close, they can sell more and thus make more if they drop prices compared to Fermi. You always pay a premium for new tech, and well, once Fermi arrives, it won't be such a new tech and it'll be time to drop prices a bit.
a c 171 Î Nvidia
March 15, 2010 9:36:56 PM

flyinfinni said:
Not necessarily price gouging. Pricing to the demand. They could still make money if they dropped their prices a bit, much more easily than Nvidia can with their massive cores and wide memory busses. Its a competitive market, and if things are close, they can sell more and thus make more if they drop prices compared to Fermi. You always pay a premium for new tech, and well, once Fermi arrives, it won't be such a new tech and it'll be time to drop prices a bit.

Whilst I'm aware of the argument you put forth it's amusing how it's not the one put forth a few years ago when the situation was reversed.
a b Î Nvidia
March 15, 2010 9:41:21 PM

Its the argument I would have used then as well, but at the same time, we all know that had Nvidia been releasing ATI's 5xxx series cards, they would have been much more expensive at release than they were with ATI. With the GTX 295 going for ~$500+ at the time of the 5xxx release, Nvidia would have been pushing the 5870 (with similar performance +DX11 etc) for something like $550-600+ is my guess, and the 5970 closer the the $800-1000 range.
a b Î Nvidia
March 15, 2010 9:42:43 PM

At this point, I'm taking the DNF attitude. I'll believe it when, if, I see it.
March 15, 2010 9:43:55 PM

If by 'won't be such a new tech' you're obviously referring to the 5 series? Fermi is a re-design from the ground up, like all new architectures its going to have major teething problems; ATI took the sensible (some would say easy) way out by simply refining their current architecture. Nvidia happens to be putting in the work now and are weathering the flak because they all have a strong hunch that they will be there smiling when ATI goes 'crap, a refinement wont be good enough this time' in a year or two.

NapoleonDK said:
Omg... Thanks for making me laugh!

Performance numbers = Lie

Price numbers = Lie

When I hear the words "Fermi" and "will be" in the same sentence, I always burst out in a fit of convulsive laughter!

That said, I can't wait to see the comparison. :) 


ATI left a message with me for you Napoleon, something about your cheque is in the post?
a b Î Nvidia
March 15, 2010 9:50:36 PM

Yes- I was talking about the 5xxx series and the DX11+eyefinity stuff. Plus- it was a pretty big jump from their 4xxx series, and I would imagine they've spent the last 6 months working on a new architecture that will help them be ready for the next step. I hope this battle is a tight one so that prices stay low, and we have options in the future for better and better performance.
March 15, 2010 9:53:10 PM

One could only hope, there is the possibility that they've got complacent with being top dog for so long....
a b Î Nvidia
March 15, 2010 10:02:16 PM

I doubt they've gotten complacent seeing as they JUST finally got back on top performance-wise with the 5xxx series. their 4xxx series was GREAT price/performance stuff, but was NOT the top dog overall. They took over with the 5xxx series, but they have to know Nvidia is doing all they can at this point to catch up and pass them, so I would bet a good bit that they are already looking forward at how to really push their 6xxx series to a new level.
Anonymous
March 15, 2010 10:02:37 PM

I am all for lower prices, but at the same time I want ATI to make good profits as its those profits shoring up AMD and we all know AMD as a whole needs to make money to stay competitive in R&D.

Come on already with Fermi, I am as excited as before the HD5xxx launch!!
March 15, 2010 10:05:24 PM

Yeah that is a big thing, ATI's success is slightly contingent on how well AMD does, the only reason why they actually made a profit last quarter was because they took over 1.3 billion from Intel in a lawsuit.
March 15, 2010 10:09:25 PM

Mousemonkey said:
Why would ATi drop their prices by $100? Surely that would suggest that they are price gouging at the moment and selling their cards for more $100 than they are worth. :whistle: 


Correct. The 5670 Should be 70$, the 5830 should be <200$, and the 5970 should be 600$.
March 15, 2010 10:10:27 PM

flyinfinni said:
Umm..... yeah.. I'll believe those prices when I see them on a price tag and can order it. But hey- I'd love it because then ATI will drop their prices by a few bucks and still blow Nvidia out of the water on price/performance.

+1. Couldn't have said it any better. I will also wait for benchmarks/reviews.

@nVidia: Where is Fermi?
March 15, 2010 10:22:33 PM

Shadow703793 said:
+1. Couldn't have said it any better. I will also wait for benchmarks/reviews.

@nVidia: Where is Fermi?


Ask that question if they haven't shipped it yet by the 26th.

Also, Pretty nice OC to get a E2180 to 3ghz, Nice.

March 16, 2010 10:28:43 AM

I tend to agree with the majority here. Because I'm skeptical sort of douchebag.

When I see Tom's/DT/X-bit/etc. put it through it's paces, I'll make my choices. I just have a hard time swallowing the benchmarks, released by the cards manufacturer as a marketing tool, as equal, same case fact.

I'm very interested from the results, unfortunately I won't be buying a new Video Card untill Northern Islands and/or the next revision of Fermi.
March 16, 2010 10:58:51 AM

flyinfinni said:
Yeah- ATI's cards are so much cheaper to produce


I keep hearing that, but no one has actually proven that yet. Just because thats how it was in the past doesn't mean its still true.

These prices are about right where I pegged them, if true. [Another "I told you so" moment, prehaps?]
March 16, 2010 11:03:58 AM

No, they won't do that right now. OK, $100 lower price, i think i screwed this a little (:D )
But as someone said a HD 5830 to be <200$, that would be nice:) 

edit-mousemonkey sorry i quoted the wrong message

Here's the "right" message:)  :

Mousemonkey said:
Why would ATi drop their prices by $100? Surely that would suggest that they are price gouging at the moment and selling their cards for more $100 than they are worth. :whistle: 
March 16, 2010 11:26:50 AM

I say it again, the Nvidia gestapo strike again. Who's to say it won't be pushed back another week next week? At this rate i estimate a May launch.....
March 16, 2010 11:28:58 AM

Griffolion said:
I say it again, the Nvidia gestapo strike again. Who's to say it won't be pushed back another week next week? At this rate i estimate a May launch.....



hah;)
March 16, 2010 11:31:11 AM

I love price wars.

Cheers!
March 16, 2010 11:41:23 AM

Oh and in reference to this whole ATI cards are cheap to make issue, at first they weren't since they hit the same massive trouble with TSMC as Nvidia are dealing with now. 40nm Yields on Cypress were poor and there's still a mountain of dead silicon at TSMC making a landmark for itself. It hasn't been until recently that ATI has actually started making profit on Cypress.
March 16, 2010 11:42:04 AM

just maybe NVidia figure if they are going to be selling fermi at a loss and are not going to be producing "that" many...

(bearing in mind they make their big money off lower end cards)

then they might as well make that loss bigger and make Fermi into something that can still deal a blow to AMD simply by masssivly underpricing it and upsetting thier price structure LOL

NVidia can afford to play money games against AMD even if it can't "really" beat AMD on price/performance it can play Fermi like it is a roaring success!
March 16, 2010 11:44:47 AM

Pailin said:
just maybe NVidia figure if they are going to be selling fermi at a loss and are not going to be producing "that" many...

(bearing in mind they make their big money off lower end cards)

then they might as well make that loss bigger and make Fermi into something that can still deal a blow to AMD simply by masssivly underpricing it and upsetting thier price structure LOL

NVidia can afford to play money games against AMD even if it can't "really" beat AMD on price/performance it can play Fermi like it is a roaring success!



Thats more or less what they plan to do. They're currently pricing the 480 very competitively from the off (450 euros) which is only 20% higher than its competitor the 5870. I'm sure Nvidia are just gearing up to cause trouble for ATI and wake them up from their 6 month top dog slumber ;) .
March 16, 2010 12:40:29 PM

ATI will only lower prices if there is enough of a supply of the 470/480.

If they sell out on the first day and aren't available for a week or two at a time, there's no real need to compete with them, because they're so close to not even existing.

If there is enough supply, then they would be forced to adjust the pricing to be more competitive.
March 16, 2010 12:51:19 PM

Quote:
Quote:
NVidia can afford to play money games against AMD even if it can't "really" beat AMD on price/performance it can play Fermi like it is a roaring success!


No they can't, they aren't even selling chipsets at this point and their graphics sales have hit rock bottom.


yes they can - NVidia's R&D budget alone is more than AMD's total profits by a long way are anyways and NVidia make a lot from their laptops sales and integrated solutions etc

AMD are struggling to break even - though should be better this coming Qtr :)  - so if NVidia can put a big dent in ATi sales it will.
NVidia does not have to have full market supply capacity - as soon as people see they are for sale cheap, they will wait for more stock. This strategy will work against AMD in reducing their sales / profit margins and in the mean time hopefully NVidia will increase their yields to make it more profitable.
a b Î Nvidia
March 16, 2010 1:09:22 PM

Like I said before, even if NVidia tries to price them competitively, what will stop retailers from marking them up like they did the 5800s? If demand is very high and supply low, retailers will know NVidia fans are anxious and will pay exorbitant prices for one, and mark them up accordingly.
March 16, 2010 1:24:33 PM

I guess suppliers could be made to sign a compliance order
or just will not get supplied more cards to sell...
March 16, 2010 1:24:53 PM

Pailin said:
yes they can - NVidia's R&D budget alone is more than AMD's total profits by a long way are anyways and NVidia make a lot from their laptops sales and integrated solutions etc

AMD are struggling to break even - though should be better this coming Qtr :)  - so if NVidia can put a big dent in ATi sales it will.
NVidia does not have to have full market supply capacity - as soon as people see they are for sale cheap, they will wait for more stock. This strategy will work against AMD in reducing their sales / profit margins and in the mean time hopefully NVidia will increase their yields to make it more profitable.


Umm... AMD's R&D budget alone is also more than AMD's total profits by a long way..... In fact I'd guess that that statement is true for almost any company out there.

You are dreaming for the rest of it. As much as I hate to say it Nvidia does not care about fermi, it can fail to sell a single unit and the company will stroll on to the bank for years to come. They have no interest in a price war, they will price fermi where it can sell the entirety of their limited stock and leave it there for ATI to lower prices to whatever they want.

Nvidia does not particularly care about denting ATI's high end sales... at all. They would like to keep them from building a strong low end showing surely, but Fermi will not impact sales of any meaningful segment unless its IP ends up in a console, super computer, or low end laptop other than the advertising aspects having a top of the line anything gives.
March 16, 2010 1:30:48 PM

heh, tbh I rather like your picture of the situation better :) 

Just throwing up a possible scenario to explain the possible low initial pricing.

and what had happened to:

I had heard that Fermi would be aimed at the CAD type workstation market where the profit marhins are Much higher... not sure where or if that situation is true...?
March 16, 2010 1:35:56 PM

Pailin said:
heh, tbh I rather like your picture of the situation better :) 

Just throwing up a possible scenario to explain the possible low initial pricing.

and what had happened to:

I had heard that Fermi would be aimed at the CAD type workstation market where the profit marhins are Much higher... not sure where or if that situation is true...?


Latest rumours are that the full Cuda core cards will be reserved for that application, and boy will they ever be pricey ;) 
a b Î Nvidia
March 16, 2010 1:47:52 PM

Pailin said:
yes they can - NVidia's R&D budget alone is more than AMD's total profits by a long way are anyways and NVidia make a lot from their laptops sales and integrated solutions etc


Yeah, but as mentioned so is nVidia's R&D budget; however, the interesting thing is that nVidia's R&D budget is falling compared to previous quarters, and falling to below AMD levels.


Quote:
AMD are struggling to break even - though should be better this coming Qtr :)  - so if NVidia can put a big dent in ATi sales it will.
NVidia does not have to have full market supply capacity - as soon as people see they are for sale cheap, they will wait for more stock. This strategy will work against AMD in reducing their sales / profit margins and in the mean time hopefully NVidia will increase their yields to make it more profitable.


So if you want a Fermi wait some more, because the launch pricing is just a PR move that is meant to be a historical event "The GTX470 launched at $X" , but not meant for actual volumes. Hmmm, who coulda guessed that? :whistle: 

It seems like a strange strategy at this point to not sell GPUs, just keep trying to delay an ATi purchase for nV fans, delay until when? When the HD6K comes out and makes it a moot point?
a b Î Nvidia
March 16, 2010 2:47:41 PM

+1 to TGGA.
To Nvidia- Give us some real benchmarks, let us see some review, etc. and then just RELEASE THE CARDS! Stop playing games and just let us see the hardware.
March 16, 2010 3:14:25 PM

flyinfinni said:
+1 to TGGA.
To Nvidia- Give us some real benchmarks, let us see some review, etc. and then just RELEASE THE CARDS! Stop playing games and just let us see the hardware.


But again, we didn't see 5000 series benchmarks until about a week before the cards released. So NVIdIA is doing the same thing ATI did, and waiting until right before release, when the cards are going out, and the drivers finalized.
March 16, 2010 3:25:46 PM

gamerk316 said:
But again, we didn't see 5000 series benchmarks until about a week before the cards released. So NVIdIA is doing the same thing ATI did, and waiting until right before release, when the cards are going out, and the drivers finalized.

I agree gamer, to a point.

What company has ever released real benchmarks of a product that has yet to be released before it was released.. Besides that, how much weight did anyone and/or should anyone put in the numbers we got from AMD before the 5000 series? When it launches we will get reviews.. to expect them to magically release numbers before we have a product is a bit silly, and even if they did no one would believe their own numbers (though they already did release unigine results).

Do people expect Nvidia to produce their own review, or perhaps letting reviewers review engineering samples before the product exists? I though we hated paper launches?
a b Î Nvidia
March 16, 2010 3:34:15 PM

True- I'm not really asking for benchmarks before release, I'm just saying- they're already 6 months late- just get the hardware out already so we can see it and see what it does. lol. I wouldn't mind then letting Toms or HardOCP or someone review an engineering sample or something either.
March 16, 2010 5:12:15 PM

flyinfinni said:
True- I'm not really asking for benchmarks before release, I'm just saying- they're already 6 months late- just get the hardware out already so we can see it and see what it does. lol. I wouldn't mind then letting Toms or HardOCP or someone review an engineering sample or something either.


yes, a sample would help alot....
March 16, 2010 5:33:55 PM

^^ NDA most likely. Par for the course really.

I'd expect the first leaks in the week leading up to release, as sites jockey for traffic. If the current roumered prices are right, and the performance is where its been roumerd, NVIDIA might have pulled the perverbial rabbit out of their hat...
March 16, 2010 6:05:50 PM

Griffolion said:
Thats more or less what they plan to do. They're currently pricing the 480 very competitively from the off (450 euros) which is only 20% higher than its competitor the 5870. I'm sure Nvidia are just gearing up to cause trouble for ATI and wake them up from their 6 month top dog slumber ;) .


Yeh, ATI never did anything like that!

(5870)

That card was very,very rare at launch, and the only cards that got sold got sold on Ebay for twice retail.
Anonymous
March 16, 2010 6:09:49 PM

If thats true, that means that the 5970 will remain on top for a very long time, until a Dual Fermi pops out.
March 16, 2010 6:26:20 PM

You mean like a Fermi SLI?

(LOL)
Anonymous
March 16, 2010 6:30:08 PM

builderbobftw said:
You mean like a Fermi SLI?

(LOL)


GTX495? Single card, same price range.
March 16, 2010 6:32:48 PM

No, I mean GTX 480 SLI.

Hint: 2 480s in SLI.
a b Î Nvidia
March 16, 2010 6:43:01 PM

Elie3000- He was making a reference to the rumored heat and power requirements of the GTX480 which suggest that a dual GPU GTX495 single card solution may not be possible.
!