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Metro 2003 and 5970 either single or quadfire

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March 17, 2010 3:11:51 AM

hi,
has anyone picked this up? game itself looks pretty good.Im surprised it runs in eyefinity..but something is off with the FPS. Im running bc2 and that game is smooth..seems metro 2033, while it runs ok, seems screwed up..

does this or any of the new titles support eyefinity + cross/quadfire with the 5k series?


March 17, 2010 3:24:30 AM

I'm playing with 2 5870's, it is by far the best looking game ever created, however with some of the DX11 effects turned on it is unplayable right now.

So I turn them off, but still run in DX11 mode to get the fps boost from DX11 api.
March 17, 2010 1:04:55 PM

how well does it run for you and are you using eyefinity? my peformance is really choppy im running dual 5970
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March 17, 2010 6:00:51 PM

No eyefinity, and it runs anywhere between 20 - 80 fps.

Usually hovers at around 55.
March 17, 2010 6:19:03 PM

Annisman said:
No eyefinity, and it runs anywhere between 20 - 80 fps.

Usually hovers at around 55.



how does it do with crossfire??
March 17, 2010 6:31:57 PM

what do you use for fps count
March 17, 2010 6:50:38 PM

Annisman said:
I'm playing with 2 5870's, it is by far the best looking game ever created, however with some of the DX11 effects turned on it is unplayable right now.

So I turn them off, but still run in DX11 mode to get the fps boost from DX11 api.

Two 5870's can't handle DX11 effects? that can't be right.
March 17, 2010 7:21:54 PM

Mousemonkey said:
Two 5870's can't handle DX11 effects? that can't be right.


It can 'handle' them, but not with acceptable minimum fps.

Honestly, I'm not surprised though, I fully expect a patch from the developers, and some performance increase from a future Catalyst driver release.

I will say that I am very impressed with how DX11 helps boost performance, so long as you don't enable the specific features, it really gives massive fps boost because of it's multi-threaded nature.

@ pnico, I use fraps.
March 17, 2010 7:37:00 PM

Annisman said:
It can 'handle' them, but not with acceptable minimum fps.

Honestly, I'm not surprised though, I fully expect a patch from the developers, and some performance increase from a future Catalyst driver release.

I will say that I am very impressed with how DX11 helps boost performance, so long as you don't enable the specific features, it really gives massive fps boost because of it's multi-threaded nature.

I can understand and would accept that if it were only one card but two cards? No, not with all the smack talk being directed towards Nvidia both by the ATi faithful and a certain R. Huddy.
March 17, 2010 7:41:10 PM

quadfire gives a marginal increase in FPS. You would actually save money getting a full water cooling loop and waterblock to overclock that 5970.

I have a 5970 on water and it clocks at 1000mhz core.
March 17, 2010 7:47:19 PM

So those that mean it's like Crysis when it came out?
March 17, 2010 8:50:45 PM

Userremoved said:
So those that mean it's like Crysis when it came out?


No, not nearly, because Crysis couldn't be played at all on 'very high' settings, no matter what configuration you had, even after a few patches and new drivers from ati/nvidia.

This game however is quite playable on 'very high' you just need to disable two of the settings (DX11 settings) One is DX11 Depth of Field, and the other is tesselation.

These two settings are not included in the 'very high' category, they are seperate add-ons.

Another thing, I fully expect this game to get fps boosts from patches and driver updates, so I am not worried.
Also, while my rig may be quite good, there are others that boast more graphics and cpu horsepower that might play the game better.

Remember, in context, Crysis was not playable even with 'new' Nvidia tri-fire of their epic 8800 ultras. So this is not at all like Crysis.

With that all being said, let it be known, this game is in fact much better looking than Crysis and is the new king of the hill.
March 17, 2010 8:54:04 PM

"I can understand and would accept that if it were only one card but two cards? No, not with all the smack talk being directed towards Nvidia both by the ATi faithful and a certain R. Huddy." - MouseMonkey


(4) GTX 285's get's less than 5 fps in some games at 2560x1200..... does anybody conclude that they are any less powerful ? No, they realise there is a limitation somewhere (in this case the video memory of course).

I don't know what the limitation is for the Ati's DX11 cards using DX11 specific features, but I hope it ends up being a software side issue that can be remedied.

Edit: I screwed up the quote feature...
March 17, 2010 9:12:14 PM

Annisman said:
"I can understand and would accept that if it were only one card but two cards? No, not with all the smack talk being directed towards Nvidia both by the ATi faithful and a certain R. Huddy." - MouseMonkey


(4) GTX 285's get's less than 5 fps in some games at 2560x1200..... does anybody conclude that they are any less powerful ? No, they realise there is a limitation somewhere (in this case the video memory of course).

I don't know what the limitation is for the Ati's DX11 cards using DX11 specific features, but I hope it ends up being a software side issue that can be remedied.

Edit: I screwed up the quote feature...

This isn't about GTX285's and super high resolutions it's about ATi making a big noise about how they are the first to use DX11 and how they have worked with game developers to ensure the best experiance possible because their cards have had a built in tessellation unit since the the 2 series and as such they are streets and months ahead of the competition, and why should you buy a game now only to have to wait a few months before you might be able to play it as it was meant to be played?
March 18, 2010 12:43:09 AM

Annisman said:
No, not nearly, because Crysis couldn't be played at all on 'very high' settings, no matter what configuration you had, even after a few patches and new drivers from ati/nvidia.

This game however is quite playable on 'very high' you just need to disable two of the settings (DX11 settings) One is DX11 Depth of Field, and the other is tesselation.

These two settings are not included in the 'very high' category, they are seperate add-ons.

Another thing, I fully expect this game to get fps boosts from patches and driver updates, so I am not worried.
Also, while my rig may be quite good, there are others that boast more graphics and cpu horsepower that might play the game better.

Remember, in context, Crysis was not playable even with 'new' Nvidia tri-fire of their epic 8800 ultras. So this is not at all like Crysis.

With that all being said, let it be known, this game is in fact much better looking than Crysis and is the new king of the hill.

Ok thanks for the info i was not so much of a gamer back in 2007.
March 18, 2010 12:56:31 AM

what kind of hardware do you have and what res/details do you have this set on that you feel its better looking than crysis? im just curious..
March 18, 2010 1:21:36 AM

does anyone know if this game supporte eyefinity? I managed to get it to run in eyefinity..but it doesnt look very good..
March 18, 2010 1:27:37 AM

Mousemonkey said:
I can understand and would accept that if it were only one card but two cards? No, not with all the smack talk being directed towards Nvidia both by the ATi faithful and a certain R. Huddy.


I know you are trying to blame the cards here, but it's quite possible it's the dev's error. It's like Dark Void. Even 295's can't play it with physX at low settings.
March 18, 2010 1:34:53 AM

Mousemonkey said:
This isn't about GTX285's and super high resolutions it's about ATi making a big noise about how they are the first to use DX11 and how they have worked with game developers to ensure the best experiance possible because their cards have had a built in tessellation unit since the the 2 series and as such they are streets and months ahead of the competition, and why should you buy a game now only to have to wait a few months before you might be able to play it as it was meant to be played?


Can you blame them for making big noise about DX11 ?

I'm sure Nvidia did it with DX10...

and no doubt whoever is first to market with a DX12 part will do the same exact thing.

If you are an educated buyer you can see through the marketing hype and still understand that you are getting a great product.
March 18, 2010 1:44:02 AM

bystander said:
I know you are trying to blame the cards here, but it's quite possible it's the dev's error. It's like Dark Void. Even 295's can't play it with physX at low settings.

Why is it that when the veracity of the 5 series' prowess is questioned you would feel that I'm blaming the cards when I should be blaming the developer? I was not the one who posted this thread raving about how good ATi cards were in the game in question, which is not Dark Void by the way. And just in case you think this is some sort of put down on that poster the thread does link to a site that shows the 5850 doing rather well so why does two 5870's not do a lot better?
March 18, 2010 2:00:15 AM

Annisman said:
Can you blame them for making big noise about DX11 ?

When one of the features that you have to disable is tessellation, then yes I do think it's something that should be raising some eyebrows. After all this is a feature that ATi have been pushing for a little while now to the extent of having the hardware built into the last three series and berating their competitors for not doing the same and holding back the whole gaming experience.
March 18, 2010 2:08:11 AM

Mousemonkey said:
Why is it that when the veracity of the 5 series' prowess is questioned you would feel that I'm blaming the cards when I should be blaming the developer? I was not the one who posted this thread raving about how good ATi cards were in the game in question, which is not Dark Void by the way. And just in case you think this is some sort of put down on that poster the thread does link to a site that shows the 5850 doing rather well so why does two 5870's not do a lot better?


Why do you like to attack ATi, and not Nvidia when they do the same?

PhysX is the big hype with Nvidia, and there are definately problems with some physX implemintations. Dark Void doesn't perform with good min FPS with 295's and physX set to low.

Sometimes the dev's make mistakes and shoot too far.

There are several other DX11 games that do work with DX11 and a single 5870.
March 18, 2010 2:18:29 AM

Mousemonkey said:
When one of the features that you have to disable is tessellation, then yes I do think it's something that should be raising some eyebrows. After all this is a feature that ATi have been pushing for a little while now to the extent of having the hardware built into the last three series and berating their competitors for not doing the same and holding back the whole gaming experience.


You do realize that DX11 has more features than tessellation, right?
March 18, 2010 2:27:38 AM

bystander said:
You do realize that DX11 has more features than tessellation, right?

Why is it that any time questions are asked you see that as an attack? And as tessellation is one of the main features of DX11 and something that ATi cards have allegedly been able to do for quite some time I do think it's a valid question to ask why the feature has to be disabled when two 5870's are being used considering the resolution they should be able to handle it's not like they should be breaking a sweat on only one monitor, so why don't you take the fanboy hat off and look to the question being asked?
March 18, 2010 2:34:42 AM

good point..the 5k ati series cards are supposed to do dx11 well in addition to tesellation and other features..BUT in a game like metro 2033, me personally, when I disable tessllatio, only then do I get nearly 50-60 fps...
If Ati cards can do dx11 and its features well, why do I need to turn it off?

my guess, and according to a senior ati rep, the software was designed better for nvidia hardware and it is only a matter of time until ati releases a driver update to match and exceed the performance of dx11 on its cards..

they tell me often, the cards arent the problem..

im running a quadfire setup..and even when im running in single mode, the 5970 has issues with tesselation..wonder why?
March 18, 2010 2:36:08 AM

Mousemonkey said:
Why is it that any time questions are asked you see that as an attack? And as tessellation is one of the main features of DX11 and something that ATi cards have allegedly been able to do for quite some time I do think it's a valid question to ask why the feature has to be disabled when two 5870's are being used considering the resolution they should be able to handle it's not like they should be breaking a sweat on only one monitor, so why don't you take the fanboy hat off and look to the question being asked?


I defind PhysX, and DirectX11 and you, the person who shows up to attack anything ATi, are calling me the fanboy?

There are other games with tessellation that work, just like physX has other games, other than Dark Void, which it works well with.

There have been numerous games that have been released with the top in features not working on current hardware. That is how the industry works.
March 18, 2010 2:51:16 AM

bystander said:
I defind PhysX, and DirectX11 and you, the person who shows up to attack anything ATi, are calling me the fanboy?

What you see as attacking I see as questioning and if you don't like that I don't really care but as long as you consider any questions I ask as an attack then I shall consider you a fanboy.
March 18, 2010 2:59:01 AM

Mousemonkey said:
What you see as attacking I see as questioning and if you don't like that I don't really care but as long as you consider any questions I ask as an attack then I shall consider you a fanboy.


It might mean something if you weren't a fanboy yourself.

You should question yourself, as I know you don't think of yourself that way. When was the last time you ever "questioned" anything Nvidia has ever done? How many times do you "question" everything ATi has ever done?

Take a look at your web browser. Do you have a folder dedicated to every post with an Nvidia problem, like you do for ATi?

You should really look at yourself.

Kettle.
March 18, 2010 3:06:15 AM

bystander said:
It might mean something if you weren't a fanboy yourself.

You should question yourself, as I know you don't think of yourself that way. When was the last time you ever "questioned" anything Nvidia has ever done? How many times do you "question" everything ATi has ever done?

Take a look at your web browser. Do you have a folder dedicated to every post with an Nvidia problem, like you do for ATi?

You should really look at yourself.

Kettle.

So following the 5 series issues is what's got you riled is it? Considering it's a problem that didn't exist that's kind of funny as for questioning everything that Nvidias done, I don't need to as so many have been quick to do that for me. :lol: 
March 18, 2010 3:11:03 AM

Well, I think our history speaks for itself. No one, but you, has ever called me a fanboy. How many have called you one?
March 18, 2010 3:18:07 AM

bystander said:
Well, I think our history speaks for itself. No one, but you, has ever called me a fanboy. How many have called you one?

I've been called many things but you know what they say "sticks and stones" besides it's not what you get called it's who's doing the calling and why that is the most telling.
March 18, 2010 3:20:38 AM

pnico said:
good point..the 5k ati series cards are supposed to do dx11 well in addition to tesellation and other features..BUT in a game like metro 2033, me personally, when I disable tessllatio, only then do I get nearly 50-60 fps...
If Ati cards can do dx11 and its features well, why do I need to turn it off?

my guess, and according to a senior ati rep, the software was designed better for nvidia hardware and it is only a matter of time until ati releases a driver update to match and exceed the performance of dx11 on its cards..

they tell me often, the cards arent the problem..

im running a quadfire setup..and even when im running in single mode, the 5970 has issues with tesselation..wonder why?

Questions and questions with no one leaping forward with answers, why is that? :heink: 
March 18, 2010 3:21:50 AM

Mousemonkey said:
... besides it's not what you get called it's who's doing the calling and why that is the most telling.


I would have to agree with this. :whistle: 
March 18, 2010 3:26:40 AM

bystander said:
I would have to agree with this. :whistle: 

I'm glad to see that, so any time I don't see you fawning over Nvidia or extolling the greatness of their products would I be correct in stating it as an attack from a fanboy?
March 18, 2010 3:30:37 AM

Mousemonkey said:
Questions and questions with no one leaping forward with answers, why is that? :heink: 


I gave you an answer, apparently you didn't like it.

Just because 1 game doesn't perform well with a new feature, doesn't make that feature "allegedly" useful. Apparently, when I tried to make it something you could understand, by comparing it to physX, you decided to call me a fanboy.

Tessellation works pretty well in all but 1. PhysX works pretty well in most it's games too. Neither platform works well on all the games that was written for it with todays hardware. And just because that one feature doesn't work well in one game, doesn't mean that game is a bad game either.

I personally use both DX11 and physX.
March 18, 2010 3:33:44 AM

Mousemonkey said:
I'm glad to see that, so any time I don't see you fawning over Nvidia or extolling the greatness of their products would I be correct in stating it as an attack from a fanboy?


Go back to my first post. I didn't attack PhysX. I didn't attack you. I did, however, compare it to Dark Void's implimentation of physX, to illustrate, that dev's do create games that top end features are not very accessable with todays hardware.
March 18, 2010 3:35:10 AM

bystander said:
I gave you an answer, apparently you didn't like it.

Just because 1 game doesn't perform well with a new feature, doesn't make that feature "allegedly" useful. Apparently, when I tried to make it something you could understand, by comparing it to physX, you decided to call me a fanboy.

Tessellation works pretty well in all but 1. PhysX works pretty well in most it's games too. Neither platform works well on all the games that was written for it with todays hardware. And just because that one feature doesn't work well in one game, doesn't mean that game is a bad game either.

I personally use both DX11 and physX.

Just because you gave an answer does not mean it's the right one, it might be but then *shock horror gasp* it might be a wrong one.
March 18, 2010 3:41:45 AM

bystander said:
I know you are trying to blame the cards here, but it's quite possible it's the dev's error. It's like Dark Void. Even 295's can't play it with physX at low settings.


bystander said:
Go back to my first post. I didn't attack PhysX. I didn't attack you. I did, however, compare it to Dark Void's implimentation of physX, to illustrate, that dev's do create games that top end features are not very accessable with todays hardware.


In your first post not only did you quote me but you accused me of trying to blame the cards and now you say that you didn't go on the attack? Now might be a good time to look at yourself and how you word things don't you think?
March 18, 2010 3:45:26 AM

Mousemonkey said:
Just because you gave an answer does not mean it's the right one, it might be but then *shock horror gasp* it might be a wrong one.


So let me get this straight.

You are wanting the answer of, "ATi cards are not able to do tessellation properly" or something close to that. Even though it does work in AoP, Dirt2 and Stalker: pripyat.

I know you believe physX is good, or great. It also has some games that utilize it heavily and chokes on a 295.

Do I have this correct?

I tend to be a bit more forgiving of both brands than you are. I have a physX game that does work pretty well. I have a physX game that runs poorly. I have a DirectX11 game that runs well. I am sure I'll run into tessellation that runs poorly as well.

Am I required by you, to consider both to be poor hardware, "allegedly" able to do their tasks?
March 18, 2010 3:53:09 AM

Mousemonkey said:
In your first post not only did you quote me but you accused me of trying to blame the cards and now you say that you didn't go on the attack? Now might be a good time to look at yourself and how you word things don't you think?


Every post you've made since the 5800's series cards have come out has been an attack on them. Forgive me for missunderstanding you. It seemed to me, due to your history of posts, to be an attack directly at ATi, and their cards.

I read this:
Quote:
This isn't about GTX285's and super high resolutions it's about ATi making a big noise about how they are the first to use DX11 and how they have worked with game developers to ensure the best experiance possible because their cards have had a built in tessellation unit since the the 2 series and as such they are streets and months ahead of the competition, and why should you buy a game now only to have to wait a few months before you might be able to play it as it was meant to be played?


And I assumed that you were blaming the ATi dev's for a poorly coded game. You obviously didn't mean that. I'm sorry.
March 18, 2010 4:03:03 AM

bystander said:
I know you believe physX is good, or great. Do I have this correct?

No, when have I ever said that?
bystander said:
Every post you've made since the 5800's series cards have come out has been an attack on them.


Obviously you have not read every post I've made since the 5800's were released.
March 18, 2010 5:17:24 AM

bystander said:
So let me get this straight.

You are wanting the answer of, "ATi cards are not able to do tessellation properly" or something close to that. Even though it does work in AoP, Dirt2 and Stalker: pripyat.

I know you believe physX is good, or great. It also has some games that utilize it heavily and chokes on a 295.

Do I have this correct?

I tend to be a bit more forgiving of both brands than you are. I have a physX game that does work pretty well. I have a physX game that runs poorly. I have a DirectX11 game that runs well. I am sure I'll run into tessellation that runs poorly as well.

Am I required by you, to consider both to be poor hardware, "allegedly" able to do their tasks?




^ this right here pretty much sums it all up.


Mousemonkey, metro was made as an Nvidia titled game, no catalyst drivers have been released since the game launched, did you ever think that maybe within a month I can use tesselation and DOF without an issue ?

Even if it doesn't turn out that way, like bystander says, there are just some games (and he has given some as proof) that just cannot utilize the features that they offer. Whose fault is it ? I don't think anybody REALLY knows, but throwing stabs into the dark won't get us anywhere.

I am aware that you know a great deal about the failings of the ATI 5*** series, but some of us (me) have no issues at all, and are not ready to blame ATI for over-hyping DX11 just because a game finally comes out that we can't use it with.

Don't fail to see what a masterpiece of a game it is even without DX11 or its features.
March 18, 2010 5:31:21 AM

Annisman said:
Mousemonkey, metro was made as an Nvidia titled game, no catalyst drivers have been released since the game launched, did you ever think that maybe within a month I can use tesselation and DOF without an issue

Let's see in a month or two, eh?
Annisman said:
Even if it doesn't turn out that way, like bystander says, there are just some games (and he has given some as proof) that just cannot utilize the features that they offer. Whose fault is it ? I don't think anybody REALLY knows, but throwing stabs into the dark won't get us anywhere.

Sometimes that's the only way to get to the root of the problem, keep stabbing until you hit the sensitive spot.

Annisman said:
I am aware that you know a great deal about the failings of the ATI 5*** series, but some of us (me) have no issues at all, and are not ready to blame ATI for over-hyping DX11 just because a game finally comes out that we can't use it with.

I'm not blaming them I just find it amusing when all that's been said over the last six or seven months is taken into consideration.

Annisman said:
Don't fail to see what a masterpiece of a game it is even without DX11 or its features.

I have yet to get my hands on a copy so I can't comment on that but when I do I might. ;) 

P.S Have you found the line(s) in the code that cripple the tessellation on ATi cards then? because that's what you seem to be implying by stating that it's an Nvidia title.
March 18, 2010 5:44:46 AM

i didn't bother reading past half of these posts, so sorry if this was said.

tessellation was originally part of dx10, along with a few other things. ati had a card ready for everything dx10 had, but nvidia couldn't produce one, had threw a fit, and microsoft took out alot of dx 10 features, later putting them in dx10.1 which ati supported, but i do not believe tessellation was in dx10.1 either.

dx 11 is the first place that tessellation was ever field tested. and with very few game having it out of the gate, its no wonder that tessellation is one thing that has to get turned off. i mean, in tech demo you can "emulate" game conditions, but you can never be fully prepared for what games will do.

the second gen dx11 cards, the 6xxx line, will have all the kinks that came up with the 5xxx cards out.
March 18, 2010 10:44:08 AM

Nvidia saping my FPS.
March 18, 2010 2:07:54 PM

Mousemonkey said:
Quote:
I know you believe physX is good, or great. Do I have this correct?

No, when have I ever said that?


Can I then quote you in the future, with you telling us you don't think physX is good?
March 18, 2010 2:23:00 PM

bystander said:
Can I then quote you in the future, with you telling us you don't think physX is good?

Why have you not been able to show me the posts in which I am supposed to have said that PhysX is great and or good? You stated that you know I believe that, so where is the evidence that supports that belief?
March 18, 2010 2:24:39 PM

o.O too hot.. MM was just surprised why 58xx is not able to handle Tess and Depth....

Likewise I am also.. It should have worked, so i think it has to do with drivers or something. Something Fishy :p 

Even the Devs must have tested it. Wats the recommended specs for this game?

March 18, 2010 2:26:55 PM

Mousemonkey said:
Why have you not been able to show me the posts in which I am supposed to have said that PhysX is great and or good? You stated that you know I believe that, so where is the evidence that supports that belief?


Just answer the question. It's not that tough.

We all know you have a mess load of physX games, and you do defend it a lot. Even I have too a lesser extent. Actions often speak louder than words. Your actions tell me you think physX is good, or I'd think you'd stop buying physX games, and stop defending physX.

I'm sure I could go back and look, but it's a simple question to answer.

Do you think physX is good, or great?
!