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Question about new fans and air flow...

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June 15, 2010 9:02:51 PM

Hey fellas,

I have a mATX case and I have some questions for bettering my airflow. The case is a Sony VAIO OEM (RC-210G) and I have EAH5770s in CF setup. My CPU is cooled by Corsair H50 so there is not much of a problem there. At this time, at idle my temps are;

CPU: 37C
NB: 52C
SB: 44C
MB: 35C
Ambient: 26C
Both GPUs: 42C

I have an OEM Delta Fan that is on top of the case as an exhaust fan, I have an Antec and the Corsairs CPU fan used as a push pull method on the H50 radiator, one Antec spot cool near the NB, and another spot cool pointed in between the GPUs. As you see it is kind of a noise-maker.

I'd like to get this new Silverstone AP121 fan and replace all 3 120mms I have in the case. First question, Corsair's CPU fan, like any other CPU fan has a 4-pin connector (not the one that comes from PSU, the one that you plug to the MB), and case fans has 3 pin connectors, so can I plug in a 3 pin case fan to the CPU fan slot on the MB that has 4 prongs?

If I reversed the exhaust fan on top and pulled cool air in from the top onto components instead of purging out hot air, would that bring temps further down? I guess I can try it out and see but I am just trying to get the dynamics of cooling down...

There is actually not a place that you can place an exhaust fan so I cut a nice hole on top with my hole saw, cool air comes in from the H50 push pull fans at the rear in the image below;



And hot air is sucked out from the top. There is an open grill in the space in this image, but can place a fan there.



Thanks for the help...

More about : question fans air flow

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a c 164 ) Power supply
a c 105 à CPUs
June 15, 2010 9:13:14 PM

your top fan should be left as an exhaust

any 3 pin fan can be placed into a 4 pin socket, it will just run at its max RPM

if noise is an issue, try antec's 3 speed fans

"Antec and the Corsairs CPU fan used as a push pull method on the H50 radiator" you have two fans facing each other?
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a c 164 ) Power supply
a c 105 à CPUs
June 15, 2010 9:39:00 PM

you may want to play around with that design, one fan could be blocking airflow from the second especially if they are running at different RPMs. I tried something similar and actually increased my CPU temps by 3-4c.
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June 15, 2010 9:45:10 PM

Wow that is a good point ct, I didn't think about that. The diagram I got from Corsair's blog shows two exact same fans Corsair ships. They run at 1600 rpm max. My pull fan is Antec which runs at 2000 rpm max and has a lot more airflow CFM wise. Push fan is the slower Corsair one. It is a good idea to play around with it, when I have the same Silverstone AP121 with more focused airflow, I will see how they cool. One problem with H50 I see is the dust accumulating on the radiator, I bet that will increase temps in time also, so I might have to get a screen or something. Do you use H50 as well?
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a c 164 ) Power supply
a c 105 à CPUs
June 15, 2010 9:50:28 PM

i have the coolermaster 212+, my CPU is OC to 3.5ghz from 2.9ghz stock. I idle at 21c and load hits 38c.
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June 15, 2010 10:02:38 PM

You must have very good airflow in your case, which is probably larger...
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a c 164 ) Power supply
a c 105 à CPUs
June 15, 2010 10:14:48 PM

its an antec 300

two 120mm up front, one in the back and a 140mm up top. I have all four set to low and then I have my CPU fan set up to a manual control that I grabbed from a previous aftermarket CPU.
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June 15, 2010 10:25:19 PM

So ct, why did you say that I should leave the top as exhaust, would it not be better to pull fresh air from top onto components, which are really in close proximity?
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June 15, 2010 10:41:13 PM

Quote:
So ct, why did you say that I should leave the top as exhaust, would it not be better to pull fresh air from top onto components, which are really in close proximity?


I would imagine the top should always be exhaust as hot air rises. A fan pulling the hot air out at the top would presumably always more efficient than one trying to push cool air in, regardless of location of the components?

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a c 164 ) Power supply
a c 105 à CPUs
June 15, 2010 10:47:22 PM

thestrangebrew said:
Quote:
So ct, why did you say that I should leave the top as exhaust, would it not be better to pull fresh air from top onto components, which are really in close proximity?


I would imagine the top should always be exhaust as hot air rises. A fan pulling the hot air out at the top would presumably always more efficient than one trying to push cool air in, regardless of location of the components?


to quote a wise military looking smiley face "In a forced air system hot air goes where it is directed. "

but setting the top as an exhaust is logical :na: 
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a c 164 ) Power supply
a c 105 à CPUs
June 15, 2010 10:49:59 PM

Bushmaster78FS said:
So ct, why did you say that I should leave the top as exhaust, would it not be better to pull fresh air from top onto components, which are really in close proximity?


strangebrew answered your question but that doesn't mean you cant grab a screwdriver and see what temps you get if you switch it around.

i played around with my side panel fan ,next to the video card, both as an exhaust and in-take. It turned out my video card temps where actually lower with the fan turned off ;) 
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June 15, 2010 11:18:30 PM

ct1615 said:
i played around with my side panel fan ,next to the video card, both as an exhaust and in-take. It turned out my video card temps where actually lower with the fan turned off ;) 


That's weird. I have the same case with a 120mm fan blowing air right into the gpus. I wonder if having it blow the hot air out would reduce my temps (which aren't bad right now but cooler is better). I might look into this...
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June 16, 2010 2:26:07 PM

I have an Antec 1200 and noticed with the rear fans on high I actually get less air thru the cpu fan (only a 2 deg c diff.)
Also if you buy fans look for the Db rating. The lower the better, I can't even hear the additional side fan that was installed. All fans will be replaced eventually.
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June 18, 2010 2:21:41 AM

Thanks guys for all the responses... I did switch the top on around today...

CPU: 37C
NB: 51C
SB: 38C
MB: 27C
Ambient: 24C
Top GPU: 38C (Closer to top fan)
Bottom GPU: 40C

If you guys noticed, Sony's box is upside down, so the bottom GPU in a normal system, the second card in the CF setup is on top, getting some air on it... Since it is upside down, so is Southbridge and probably the Mobo sensor. Their temp difference is noticeable. You are right, the hot air is being forced from the front grill somewhat, no fan there.

My next system I want to stay with mATX form factor, however do you guys know any good ventilated mid-towers?
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June 18, 2010 2:26:07 AM

mhelm1 said:
I have an Antec 1200 and noticed with the rear fans on high I actually get less air thru the cpu fan (only a 2 deg c diff.)
Also if you buy fans look for the Db rating. The lower the better, I can't even hear the additional side fan that was installed. All fans will be replaced eventually.


mhelm, I noticed on newegg while filtering out fans, the quieter they are, the less CFM you get. I ordered those AP121's from Silverstone which seem to be a nice mix of both, quiet and focused airflow. Let's see how they'll fare...
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a b ) Power supply
June 18, 2010 5:24:52 PM

antec 300 afaik imo is a nice case...(i dont have one, but i know someone who does and they say its the best pc case they ever have had)
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a b ) Power supply
June 18, 2010 5:25:34 PM

i hope u aren tusing the stock psu...
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June 18, 2010 7:11:08 PM

shovenose said:
i hope u aren tusing the stock psu...


Me? Stock for that VAIO...? Heck no LOL! That thing was a joke! For the dimensions of the case though, the only thing I could find was Antec True Power 750 or Corsair HX650. I went with Corsair.
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a b ) Power supply
June 18, 2010 10:57:40 PM

ok i figured that much i was just making sure...you never know :) 
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June 19, 2010 9:33:25 PM

shovenose said:
ok i figured that much i was just making sure...you never know :) 

Yea Sony shipped a cheap ass 400W Delta something PSU, my calculation was around 530 so that thing had to go.

Flipping the top fan and sucking air from top didn't work as I thought. You guys were right, it should remain as exhaust. The problem is not the idles but the load temps. Since it is a small case with poor airflow, my GPUs under load go up to mid 80s (like 3DMark06) when that top fan was exhausting hot air. But when flipped, temps went up to 94C last night. 94 could be safe for a 5770 but it makes me uncomfortable.
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a c 164 ) Power supply
a c 105 à CPUs
June 19, 2010 10:28:56 PM

mid 80's in a CF set up while in a small case is not bad. it can be better but you may be worrying over nothing.

as far as the Corsair H50 goes, it looks cool, makes little noise, but is only an average after market cooler in terms of lowering temp.
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June 20, 2010 12:40:33 AM

Yea only thing I liked about H50 is that it allows you to have some room, considering this case is tight and there is not much space around. But idling at 38 and loading at 60 is not that impressive for a non-OC'ed i7 930... And I am doing the push pull method they recommend on their website.
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a b ) Power supply
June 20, 2010 1:12:16 AM

if i were you, i wouldnt bother with putting two fans on the h50. my colleague has a core2quad OC to 3.something ghz, stable, and it idles at 26c (according to him).
if i were you, get some arctic silver 5 and reapply thermal paste
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June 20, 2010 6:03:50 PM

Best answer selected by Bushmaster78FS.
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June 20, 2010 6:05:47 PM

Shovenose thanks for that tip. H50 had the paste pre-applied but I have no idea as to the quality of it. Now I have been hearing about the Arctic Silver 5 quite a bit, I can probably use it on the GPUs also, I used Antec's Formula5 Silver based compound on the GPUs. To be honest, it always makes me nervous and hands shaky when I am applying thermal paste. ..
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a b ) Power supply
June 20, 2010 6:07:09 PM

whats so bad about thermal paste? besides the fact that its wierd chemical crud?
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June 20, 2010 7:33:18 PM

Guys, look at this thing;



Instead of a Antec Spot cooler rated a 22CFM, I can get one of these, get fresh air from the top with a 120mm fan directly onto my GPUs... What do you think?
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a c 164 ) Power supply
a c 105 à CPUs
June 20, 2010 8:13:10 PM

Bushmaster78FS said:
Shovenose thanks for that tip. H50 had the paste pre-applied but I have no idea as to the quality of it. Now I have been hearing about the Arctic Silver 5 quite a bit, I can probably use it on the GPUs also, I used Antec's Formula5 Silver based compound on the GPUs. To be honest, it always makes me nervous and hands shaky when I am applying thermal paste. ..


i use antec formula 5 also, its a solid compound and just as good as AS5

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June 20, 2010 10:53:38 PM

ct1615 said:
i use antec formula 5 also, its a solid compound and just as good as AS5

Thanks ct, good to hear that..
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July 8, 2010 9:19:36 PM

So let me re-visit this thread...

My current temps are like this at idle;
CPU: 39C (+2 from the old setup)
NB: 53C (+2 ...)
SB: 44C (+6 ...)
MB: 34C (+7 ...)
Ambient: 26.1C
Top GPU: 41C (+3 ...)
Bottom GPU: 45C (+5 ...)

(Under load CPU climbs up about 30 more degrees (prime95) and GPUs about 50-55 more, I am not too worried about the others as they don't go more than 20 over)

I did a few changes around, I replaced all my 120mm fans with Silverstone's AP121 Air Penetrators. I removed one of Antec's SpotCool's (2 of them make enough noise) and added 2 80mm Silverstone FN-81s on a metal bracket pushing air to the GPUs. My temps went a little higher but my noise levels probably came down about 30dba, the box is much quieter now even with 6 fans in it. The air circulation is not that well, since it is a cramped up case, with 2 intakes but not an effective exhaust, this is where the AirPenetrator fans come into play, they push the air really good to about 100cm away. And they are quiet. One problem is that they have a low static pressure which you would need in this kind of case.

I have learned a lot about air cooling with this little project. I am considering a SS Raven Case for my next system with air penetrators installed everywhere.

Thanks for y'alls help
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