Why water cooling?

[lidge1337]

i wanna ask
why would someone need water cooling, what would cause their pc to heat up so much, what kind of software uses that much power, if you could answer me, i'd be grateful

 

[Novuake]

One word : Overclocking
Urban dictionary : "To overclock is to force some hardware mentioned above to run at faster, often non-intented speeds. "

Let me just start by saying that the only time watercooling is an option is when you plan on overclocking. Overclocking started out as a way to maximize a cheaper CPUs performance by overclocking it. In this way you could save some serious money.

These days it has become more of a hobby.

Watercooling allows for a much cooler PC when you overclock a CPU more than is capable on an air cooler. The more you overclock the more heat is generated.

Now depending on your usage for a PC is, overclocking can either give you some nice performance increases or just provide later easy upgrade to your overall system speed as it ages.

 

[lidge1337]

yeah, i know, water cooling is like 5 times better, and the heat is much lower, but, why would i need it in like a gaming and media pc?

ok, i'd put a 3470 in my pc, a msi gtx 660 ti pe oc, 8 gb of corsair ram, 600w psu

would i be able to overclock it, and how much, would any game actually use that much power?

 

[Novuake]

yeah, i know, water cooling is like 5 times better, and the heat is much lower, but, why would i need it in like a gaming and media pc?

ok, i'd put a 3470 in my pc, a msi gtx 660 ti pe oc, 8 gb of corsair ram, 600w psu

would i be able to overclock it, and how much, would any game actually use that much power?

No, the 3470 is not overclockable. Only Intel K-series(3570K, 3770K) can effectively OC.

There are some games that benefit from an OC, Skyrim for one.

EDIT : To be honest you would benefit more if you OC your GTX 660ti.

Have you bought that build yet or not?

Oh and as to why you would need it. No reason other than a better OC and a hobby.

Let me just make this clear. There are 2 kinds of watercooling.

Closed loop watercoolers(CLCs). This is an example : http://www.corsair.com/us/hydro-series-h100i-extreme-performance-liquid-cpu-cooler.html

CLCs are not much better than high end air cooling(high end air is even cheaper too).
So IF you wish to go watercooling. GO for a custom loop.

TRUE watercooling is known as a Custom Watercooling Loop.
This is MUCH more complicated. You actually assemble and modify it as you see fit. IT COSTS A LOT OF MONEY!

You can read the Watercooling sticky if you really are interested. Warning it is a long read.
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/277130-29-read-first-watercooling-sticky

 

[cobra5000]

$500 i7-3770K system? On what planet?

 

[Novuake]

I think I will just ignore all of Belial's posts from now on... Unless he is getting stolen parts, those prices are impossible...

 

[Novuake]

Oh, I actually could have knocked another $25 if I used a coupon at microcenter but that day my printer ran out of ink and the manager INSISTED that it had to be printed. That really sucked. The cashier even said okay to seeing it on my phone but they forgot to ring it in and then when I came back they said no.

i7-3770K $209: http://www.overclock.net/t/1345012/microcenter-intel-core-i7-3770k-209-99-ac/0_100

Z77X-UD5H $79: http://www.overclock.net/t/1352904/microcenter-new-deal-extreme6-for-49-bundle-price-i3-i5

http://www.ebay.com/csc/i.html?_sacat=0&_from=R40&_nkw=mushkin+2x2gb&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1&rt=nc
Sold listings of Mushkin 2x2GB on ebay, as you can see, many of them are $20-30 and quite a few of them are PSCs and BBSEs. I must say, I bought my Mushkins for $27, but due to shipping being cheaper than expected, I got refunded $2. Then, I got another refund for $5 because I had to RMA the ram (the seller never had a problem with the ram, and the ram worked fine for me, but wasn't 24 hour prime95 stable, he also paid the shipping for the RMA too).

http://www.ebay.com/itm/996902-Mushkin-Enhanced-Blackline-DDR3-1600-4GB-2x2GB-7-10-8-27-/181062888759?pt=US_Memory_RAM_&hash=item2a28306d37

There's the ram I specifically bought.

http://slickdeals.net/f/5771598-NZXT-Source-210-17-99-AR-Microcenter-B-M-Mid-ATX-Case
Slickdeals listing on the NZXT Source 210 being $17 at microcenter.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1156347/newegg-corsair-cx500-v2-24-99-mir-expired/10
CX500 being $24.99 on newegg.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?LH_Sold=1&_sacat=0&_from=R40&LH_Complete=1&_nkw=nh-d14&_sop=15
Sold listings of the NH-D14 on ebay. As you can see, there's quite a few that have sold for under $50. In fact most NH-D14s sold on ebay are under $50. And like I said, there's many other high end coolers for under $50, like the Zalman LQ320 being $39 twice on newegg recently, and the Logisys Assassin, which is better than the Nh-D14, being $39 at performancepcs.com (even to this day).

http://www.ebay.com/sch/Computer-Components-Parts-/175673/i.html?_sop=15&LH_Sold=1&_from=R40&LH_Complete=1&_nkw=gtx+460+768mb
GTX 460 being $60 on ebay.

Right now geeks.com is out of stock on the GTX 460 but they usually have it around $60 too. Geeks is pretty awesome for very cheap deals, they have the 470 for only $114, a card that performs similarly to the 7850.

Hardly impossible prices. I just know what I'm talking about, and you don't.

This is not the first posts of yours I completely disagree with... lol

This just confirmed it...

 

[manofchalk]

To pull the thread back on topic .

Water-cooling on modern PC's is decidedly less worthwhile than it was back in the Pentium 4 days. Chips have evolved to consume less power (therefor put out less heat) and overclocking isn't constrained by temperatures anymore, as high end air cooling will allow you to hit pretty much any practical overclock.
But, if you want a silent PC, extreme overclocks or just the awesomeness of having water running through the most electrically active machine in your house, then you might as well go for it.

For instance, my machine. The CPU inside (3570k @4.3Ghz) was adequately cooled by a 212 EVO, a $30 air heatsink. But I wanted water in my system, to me it seemed a nice way to make my rig unique and cool much better with Summer around the corner (as I sit here, my CPU is idling at ~35°, which is ambient temp) I thought it would be a good way to keep it cool without it being loud.

For most, watercooling is a hobby rather than a necessary feature. We aint called enthusiasts for nothing, we do it because we want too, not because we have too.

 

[lidge1337]

ok, this went too far, i just asked this...
do i need, water cooling, what kind of program would generate so much heat that i'd need it
i don't think i'll ever overclock, but if i do, i wouldn't go far

(i live in croatia, don't tell me about different hardware)
the stuff i'll put in my pc will be:
Intel i5 3470
MSI GTX 660 ti PE OC
Corsair Vengeance Low Profile (8 GB, 2x4 GB, 1600 MHz, 9-9-9-24)
OCZ ModXStream 600W
ASRock Z77 PRO3
WD 10EZEX (1TB, Caviar Blue, 7200, 64MB)
LG GH24NS95 Burner
Zalman Z11 Plus
Logitech M325
Logitech K270
Genius SP-HF500A
LG IPS224V-PN
D-Link DWA-525

ADDITIONAL:
Kingston 120 or 90 GB ssdnow v300

WOULD I NEED WATERCOOLING FOR THAT




ALSO...crysis 1, 2, 3 would all probably need 8 GB or more to run well, so don't tell me i only need 4!

 

[manofchalk]

8GB is the recommended amount for a gaming rig around here. Hell, why not get 16GB, RAM is cheap .

Do you need watercooling for that rig...
Answer is no. That CPU doesn't overclock (significantly anyway) and the GPU already has a decent cooler on it. So temperature wise there's no need for water-cooling.

As I said before, water-cooling in very few cases is necessary. It is largely because we want it.

Also you seem to be under the impression that different programs will output different amounts of heat. Kind of works like that but not really, has more to do with how hard it makes the CPU/GPU work. If you want to find out your max temps, use Prime95 (CPU) and Furmark (GPU). They will stress your CPU/GPU to 100%, giving you your max temperatures (which will vary depending on the cooler, airflow, ambient temps, how dusty it is, etc, etc).

 

[lidge1337]

so unless i get into the gaming desing business or start makingcgi movies,i shouldn't need more power for now, and i don't need water cooling?

also, maybe i will get 16, but later, like, another set of 2x4 corsair, anyway, this has a limited budget, and that budget doesn't exist yet, it's more of a plan for the future, you know?

anyway, thanks, i just wanted to know if it's even needed

 

[manofchalk]

Not even then, air cooling will cover you temperature wise for everything in that rig no matter what your doing. The 212 EVO I mentioned earlier would be a great heatsink to throw on that 3470 if temperatures did start to become an issue.
My overclocked 3570k was getting ~65°C under Prime95 when I used a 212 EVO, so given the same ambient (~20°C) you would probably be closer to 55°C, which isn't hot by any means. Though since your using the stock cooler, you can expect temperatures higher than that, but again, it will run just fine.

 

[lidge1337]

actually, i'm thinking of buying the CNPS7000C-Cu
would it be good?

 

[manofchalk]

Better than stock at least, though its a fairly old cooler and has few reviews (which were made on Athlon 64's), so I dont really know how much better.

 

[lidge1337]

any good coolers on this site?
under 300KN

http://www.futura-it.hr/katalog/komponente/hladnjaciventilatori/hladnjaci-za-procesor.aspx

 

[manofchalk]

Would say this Zalman
http://www.futura-it.hr/proizvod.aspx?productId=ZAL-CNPS10X%20OPTIMA
or this Thermaltake Contac 30 (was considering this back when I first built my rig).
http://www.futura-it.hr/proizvod.aspx?productId=0530960

Dont know which one is better, but at a guess, the Zalman since it has more heatpipes and has more mass to dissipate heat with. Though you will want to look up benchmarks for a proper say on their performance.

 

[lidge1337]

thanks

 

[ronss]

agree, overclocking is one big reason many go with watercooling...i have a p67 asus sabertooth, and with one click in the bios, i can overclock my cpu (i5-3570) to 4.3ghz...i got rid of the cheap intel cooler, and installed the h100i corsair unit...until intel burn test(stanard settting) . the highest one of the cores got was 60c....if i kept the stock cooler on,,,,who knows what it would be, i know the intel burn test with stock everything was 75c on intel burn test, with the cpu at 3.4ghz

 

[Novuake]

This is not the first posts of yours I completely disagree with... lol

This just confirmed it...

Maybe drop the nasty attitude? Maybe there's something to be learned with the fact I was able to build a $500 i7-3770K build.

4GB on a gaming rig is a waste of money. Once you have enough RAM, adding more won't do anything. Games are coded so that they are compatible with 32 bit OS, so it's not possible to use more than 4GB of RAM.

agree, overclocking is one big reason many go with watercooling...i have a p67 asus sabertooth, and with one click in the bios, i can overclock my cpu (i5-3570) to 4.3ghz...i got rid of the cheap intel cooler, and installed the h100i corsair unit...until intel burn test(stanard settting) . the highest one of the cores got was 60c....if i kept the stock cooler on,,,,who knows what it would be, i know the intel burn test with stock everything was 75c on intel burn test, with the cpu at 3.4ghz

An h100 isn't really water cooling, it has more in common with an air cooler.

4.3ghz is almost as high as you can get a Non-K edition CPU, you should push 4.5ghz+ on an h100 if you have one, and be more than cool on it.

The stock intel cooler approaches the max of 90-95*C just on stock clocks. You can't overclock on it.

You have said that before and I STILL DISAGREE!

 

[assasin32]

True water cooling, such as custom loops is more of an enthusiest kind of thing for overclocking. It isn't necessary and is more of a hobby, more than anything else in my opinion. The current tech we have in our computers don't require such extreme methods to cool for anything except some of the more extreme overclocks. And were able to get by quite easily with normal heatsinks and fans.

A well setup air cooled PC can easily have high overclocks for quite cheap if it is done right. A custom water cooled setup that is also done right might be able to push the same PC a little bit farther but not too much, for a significantly higher price.

By no means is custom water cooling required these days. Nor is it something I recommend unless you have disposable income and want a fun hobby to work on. If you want cheap performance look into air cooling. If you want a hobby and have the funds water cooling. As for me I went the air route as I value bang for the buck, and don't have the funds for a proper water cooling setup sadly.

 

[lidge1337]

well, i'll see, if i ever have that kind of money, i might look into water cooling