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Windows 7 install or clone on SSD?

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May 16, 2012 2:02:10 AM

I've heard that it's bad to clone an OS and put it onto an SSD because then it isn't maximized for performance on an SSD like if you do a clean install

If I upgrade to an SSD is it the exact same thing if I clone my OS vs. running a clean W7 install? Will I lose performance with a clone? Is a clean install on SSD better?

Thanks
a b $ Windows 7
a c 87 G Storage
May 16, 2012 2:46:16 AM

I would advise against cloning to an SSD because as you said, it's not at all optimized. Windows will most likely treat it like a platter drive. If you clone to the SSD you risk not only losing performance, but causing damage that can only be repaired by securely erasing the drive.

Just install Windows to the drive as normal
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a b $ Windows 7
a c 289 G Storage
May 16, 2012 1:36:15 PM

A clean install is always preferable, in my personal opinion. Have you ever noticed that a freshly-built system seems more responsive than a two-year-old system?
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a b G Storage
May 16, 2012 1:44:19 PM

Do a clean install of windows 7 and let the windows install creat the partition for you. This will make sure that your allocation unit size is the default 4096 and that the alignment of the partitions starting point is correct for that particular SSD. If you simply clone the old platter driver the alignment will be off and the SSD will not perform well.

Platter HDs us a partition offset of 63 empty blocks where a SSD should be set at 64 blocks. The windows 7 install will set this for you automaticlly when it creates the new partition on your new SSD.
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a b $ Windows 7
a b G Storage
May 16, 2012 1:54:04 PM

zeffolia said:
I've heard that it's bad to clone an OS and put it onto an SSD because then it isn't maximized for performance on an SSD like if you do a clean install

If I upgrade to an SSD is it the exact same thing if I clone my OS vs. running a clean W7 install? Will I lose performance with a clone? Is a clean install on SSD better?

Thanks


It's worth noting that Windows 7 takes about 10 minutes to install to an SSD, and you don't need to wipe your old HDD, making it fairly easy to restore your data. And as others said, you don't get the advantages of the stuff Windows does when it recognizes it's been installed on an SSD.
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a b G Storage
May 16, 2012 2:01:32 PM

make sure you enable ahci in the bios before you install windows. This allows the windows to take advantage of all the nice ssd features like trim. If you forget to turn on ahci before you install its a pain to change.
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May 22, 2012 3:31:36 AM

zeffolia said:
I've heard that it's bad to clone an OS and put it onto an SSD because then it isn't maximized for performance on an SSD like if you do a clean install

If I upgrade to an SSD is it the exact same thing if I clone my OS vs. running a clean W7 install? Will I lose performance with a clone? Is a clean install on SSD better?

Thanks


I cloned my 80gb HDD to my Crucial M4 64gb SSD using EaseUS ToDo Version 4.0 with no problem. It was partitioned correctly. After you select the SSD to clone to there is a box you need to check. I don't remember the exact wording but it is for cloning to an SSD.
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a b G Storage
May 22, 2012 4:00:14 AM

zeffolia said:
I've heard that it's bad to clone an OS and put it onto an SSD because then it isn't maximized for performance on an SSD like if you do a clean install

If I upgrade to an SSD is it the exact same thing if I clone my OS vs. running a clean W7 install? Will I lose performance with a clone? Is a clean install on SSD better?

Thanks


Clong to SSD? why not migrate your OS to SSD directly, as I know some SSD OEM has the OS migration tool on their offical website, such as intel ssd, if you could not find that, there's other os migration tool, such as Acronis, Partition Assistant 5.0, and etc, btw, the Partition Assistant 5.0 is in giveaway, you could free to own it now, here you could read more details infromation from:
http://www.disk-partition.com/specials/papreview.html
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May 22, 2012 4:06:35 AM

quesionboy said:
Clong to SSD? why not migrate your OS to SSD directly, as I know some SSD OEM has the OS migration tool on their offical website, such as intel ssd, if you could not find that, there's other os migration tool, such as Acronis, Partition Assistant 5.0, and etc, btw, the Partition Assistant 5.0 is in giveaway, you could free to own it now, here you could read more details infromation from:
http://www.disk-partition.com/specials/papreview.html


I just found it extremely easy to use my docking station, plug in my SSD, open and run EaseUS (Free) and let it clone everything from my HDD to my SSD. Pulled the HDD out, plugged in my new SSD and I was ready to go. All my pre-installed programs (Word, Excel, phone book, Quicken checking, etc. all there and identical to my old HDD.
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a b G Storage
May 22, 2012 5:41:48 AM

rus2 said:
I just found it extremely easy to use my docking station, plug in my SSD, open and run EaseUS (Free) and let it clone everything from my HDD to my SSD. Pulled the HDD out, plugged in my new SSD and I was ready to go. All my pre-installed programs (Word, Excel, phone book, Quicken checking, etc. all there and identical to my old HDD.

Please explan how you ensure the partition is alignment after you clone your partition? If the partition is not alignment in 1024kb before clone it, it will still not align after cloned, and if the hard disk is work under the IDE mode, when you clone it to new hard disk, it will still work under the ide mode, not the AHCI mode, and as we know the partition alignment and turn on AHCI (NCQ) mode are two key steps to improve the performance of SSD.
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a b $ Windows 7
a c 87 G Storage
May 22, 2012 7:11:37 AM

quesionboy said:
Please explan how you ensure the partition is alignment after you clone your partition? If the partition is not alignment in 1024kb before clone it, it will still not align after cloned, and if the hard disk is work under the IDE mode, when you clone it to new hard disk, it will still work under the ide mode, not the AHCI mode, and as we know the partition alignment and turn on AHCI (NCQ) mode are two key steps to improve the performance of SSD.


Migrating isn't exactly the same as cloning. Many utilities will correct for filesystem inefficiencies and partition boundaries. I still wouldn't recommend it but it's better than just doing a binary copy with DD
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a b G Storage
May 22, 2012 7:56:10 AM

Pinhedd said:
Migrating isn't exactly the same as cloning. Many utilities will correct for filesystem inefficiencies and partition boundaries. I still wouldn't recommend it but it's better than just doing a binary copy with DD


Yes, partition migration is just a half-measures for the people who don't want to reinstall everything on new SSD.
I just notice your computer configration, so cool, "Intel Core i7 3960x 2x Gigabyte Radeon HD 7970", wow! you must be an enthusiasts.
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a b $ Windows 7
a c 353 G Storage
May 22, 2012 3:50:02 PM

Fresh istall is the best.
.. Trim will be enabled
.. Defrag disabled,
.. partition will be aligned.
.. NOTHING like a fresh clean registry to start the day off.

That said, there are times when a fresh install is NOT the way to go (ie my wife's system - Re-installing the programs would be a nightmare and that's being mild!!!)

Migration seems to be better than cloning.
Some things that need to look at. Size of your "C" drive. Can NOT put 10 lbs of Shi* in a 5 pound bag. All to offten people slap in a HDD and just make one BIG partition vs the recommended method of a small partition for OS + Programs (C-drive) and a partition for ALL user generated data (D-drive).

.. Was the HDD set up using AHCI, if Not no biggy as you can convert the IDE to ahci (just google it, fairly simple). Verify/do first!!
.. Newer migration tools will perform the alignment.
.. Will need to do some "fixs:
...... Enable trim manually (google enable trim"
...... Disable Defrag (simple).
Then apply the normal tweaks that you would have done with the fresh install.
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May 22, 2012 3:56:32 PM

quesionboy said:
Please explan how you ensure the partition is alignment after you clone your partition? If the partition is not alignment in 1024kb before clone it, it will still not align after cloned, and if the hard disk is work under the IDE mode, when you clone it to new hard disk, it will still work under the ide mode, not the AHCI mode, and as we know the partition alignment and turn on AHCI (NCQ) mode are two key steps to improve the performance of SSD.



I went to msinfo32/components/storage/disks/partition starting offset. Divided it by 4096 and got an even number verifying the partition was properly aligned. I'm thinking that EaseUS aligns the partition before the clone begins.
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a b G Storage
May 23, 2012 1:43:23 AM

rus2 said:
I went to msinfo32/components/storage/disks/partition starting offset. Divided it by 4096 and got an even number verifying the partition was properly aligned. I'm thinking that EaseUS aligns the partition before the clone begins.


Sorry, I have tested EaseUS Free Edition, it will not align the partition before the clone begins.
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May 23, 2012 2:00:40 AM

quesionboy said:
Sorry, I have tested EaseUS Free Edition, it will not align the partition before the clone begins.


I don't know when, where, how or why my SSD was correctly partitioned. All I do know is that when I divide my partition starting offset of 5,263,327,232 by 1024 or 2048 or 4096 the number comes out even which indicates the partition of my "new" Crucial M4 64gb SSD, that I just cloned from my Toshiba 80gb HDD, using free EaseUS, ver 4.0 and my docking station is correct.

Maybe Crucial partitioned it before I received it. I don't know. Anyone have any ideas???
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May 23, 2012 2:16:11 AM

quesionboy said:
Sorry, I have tested EaseUS Free Edition, it will not align the partition before the clone begins.


On the page of EaseUS where you select the SSD to receive the cloned info is a square button:

"Optimize for SSD" Put a check mark in it and it will problably set up the correct partition.
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May 23, 2012 2:17:00 AM

quesionboy said:
Sorry, I have tested EaseUS Free Edition, it will not align the partition before the clone begins.



Do not clone sector by sector.
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a b G Storage
May 23, 2012 2:34:06 AM

rus2 said:
On the page of EaseUS where you select the SSD to receive the cloned info is a square button:

"Optimize for SSD" Put a check mark in it and it will problably set up the correct partition.


I find that, they hid it so well. Here is another problem, if my target disk is not SSD, it will not allow me to algin partition? As we know partition alignment is not the partent of SSD. Maybe your source partition was created in Windows 7, Windows 7 will align the partition automatic when partition created.
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May 23, 2012 3:20:18 AM

quesionboy said:
I find that, they hid it so well. Here is another problem, if my target disk is not SSD, it will not allow me to algin partition? As we know partition alignment is not the partent of SSD. Maybe your source partition was created in Windows 7, Windows 7 will align the partition automatic when partition created.



I went from my original 500gb Toshiba 5400rpm HDD to a new Toshiba 80gb, 7200rpm HDD and then to the Crucial M4 64gb SSD.

My source HDD partition is the result of Toshiba installing Win 7 at the factory. I don't know if the partition created on my HDD is or should be the same as on an SSD.

All I know for sure is that after I cloned the SSD with all the info from my 80gb HDD it was correctly partitioned.
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May 23, 2012 4:12:00 AM

I found the following from EaseUS that verifies that EaseUS does, in fact partition the SSD before the cloning begins:


If the destination disk is SSD, ticking the box Optimize for SSD will ensure sector alignment in the process, and the chance of successfully booting from the SSD after recovery will be increased.
Generally it is not necessary to check the other option, which is described in Sector by sector recovery

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December 6, 2012 9:15:32 PM

Just wanted to post my experiences in Windows 7 64 bit Home Premium migration from HDD to SSD, having switched from a Windows XP Raid system.

1. First off, I had started with Windows XP 32 bit in RAID mode on the bios, with 2 discs in Raid 1 and 1 other hard drive also on SATA. The non-raid hard drive was a clone of the raid system (and was bootable), plus I had a removable SATA dock with a hard drive cloned there as well (also bootable). In addition, on the same system I had created a Windows 7 64 bit installation in anticipation of my migration: I had simply disconnected the SATA and Raid drives, plugged a hard drive into my SATA bay, and installed Windows 7 64 bit Home Premium on it (note: Bios was still in Raid mode. See below why this matters).

2. I unplugged the Raid drives and my SATA hard drive, and plugged in my new SSD and put the Windows 7 hard drive into my SATA swap bay, planning to simply clone Windows 7 from the hard drive (along with installed programs and formatting) to the SSD. Of course, upon bootup I changed my Bios from Raid to AHCI to ensure optimal SSD functionality. Result: The Windows 7 hard drive was not recognized so I could not clone it to the SSD, since it did not boot up even. Turns out there's a program/driver that has to be placed on the Windows 7 drive in order for it to even be seen in Windows when switching from Raid to AHCI mode. So, I went back into Raid mode in the bios, the Windows 7 drive was recognized and booted up, I downloaded this msi program from Microsoft, I ran it on the Windows 7 drive, I rebooted into AHCI mode and voila- it was recognized.

3. I tried Acronis. I tried Miray HDClone. I tried Drive XML. I tried Easus Todo. None would clone from the Windows 7 hard drive to the SSD, even after formatting the SSD with 4k partitioning. They might clone and then stop just before finishing. Or they would clone and then be unbootable. Before trying anything else that I saw on the web, I tried Casper 7.0. Utterly and completely easy, brainless, and successful cloning from the Windows 7 drive to the SSD, even while working in Windows. Note: the SSD is 240gb, the hard drives 500gb (but data was only 190gb). With Casper, I did not have to change partition sizes or do any other screwing around with formatting or partitioning . . . I just cloned it.

4. Next, I removed the Raid drives from my computer case. Remember, they were Raid 1. Turns out when I put them in a USB/SATA dock, they are accessible and totally readable to my new Windows 7 system. But, I don't need 'em that way and I had hard drive clones of my old Windows XP Raid system on other drives. I put the Raid drives (500gb each) back in my case. Now, in ACHI mode using Windows 7 64 bit on my SSD, I used Casper to clone the SSD to each of the old former raid hard drives.

5. End result: Windows 7 SSD and 2 clones of it in my system. Casper has automated incremental backup/cloning so this is mindless now. If the SSD gets corrupted, I have not one, but two clones that I can instantly boot up from with my data all intact.

6. One footnote: After doing all this, I wanted to have one other Windows 7 system disc clone to store off site. So I put a disc into my SATA bay that was a former Windows XP disc from my old Raid system. It was seen on my Bios on boot up. It was recognized by my cloning program, Casper, upon running that program. But Windows 7 failed to see it in explorer or Disc Management. Why? Because it was originally formatted and run in the Raid mode and I forgot that I didn't put the stupid Microsoft driver on it to make it recognized in the AHCI mode.

Hopefully the above story will help out someone else.

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